Need advice; low DAT score.

[SirThrivalist]

---

Members don't see this ad.

First post here, so please don't be too harsh on me. I have a 3.2 cGPA and a 3.1 sGPA. I just took my DAT for the second time earlier this month and scored:

PAT: 21
QR: 20
RC: 18
BIO: 16
GC: 19
OC: 14
TS: 16
AA: 17

As you can see, I didn't do too great on it this time. I plan on taking the DAT again early this October, but I'm afraid that may be too late in the application cycle to be of any effect. Should I submit my applications ASAP or should I wait until after retake the DAT again? I tried calling several schools to see if they will hold my app until I retake the DAT, but wasn't able to receive much information. Some schools only hold apps if the existing DAT score is below the threshold for acceptance.

On a side note, I have been a dental office manager for almost 7 years now. I am extremely familiar with what goes on inside a dental office and inside patients' mouths. I also am involved in volunteering for a local dental society that organizes CE courses.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Paperclipz]

Hey! Some of the subscores look great so don't count yourself out just yet! You can submit your application and always say that you are going to take it again in October. I'll be honest, I had similar scores last yr and didn't have much luck in the cycle and then I had friends who had similar scores to you and got in. All I can tell you is that no one here can tell you for certain about your chances but if you know that you can improve your scores, then do so.

I wish you the best in this cycle!!

 

[Biomajor1331]

Hi Mike! As i am reading your post, i am in a similar situation as you. My DAT score was the same but i got a 14 in QR and 20 in OC. I too am an office manager for 8 years and have about the same GPA. I was thinking of retaking the DAT but i am scared i will score lower. Do you mind me asking how old you are?

 

[SirThrivalist]

Hi Mike! As i am reading your post, i am in a similar situation as you. My DAT score was the same but i got a 14 in QR and 20 in OC. I too am an office manager for 8 years and have about the same GPA. I was thinking of retaking the DAT but i am scared i will score lower. Do you mind me asking how old you are?

I am currently 27 years old and am getting older by the second. I'm going to retake the DAT again for the third time because I am fortunate to have the entire time frame from now until October to study (thanks, boss!). It's pretty much my full time job until for the time being. If I don't score higher, I'm going to be super bummed. I hope that my years as a dental office manager will radiate my application somewhat. If I receive an interview opportunity from any dental school, I will be happy. I am pretty proficient with interviews.

What is the breakdown of your DAT scores?

 

[LaughingGas]

3.2 cGPA and a 3.1 sGPA. I just took my DAT for the second time earlier this month and scored:

PAT: 21
QR: 20
RC: 18
BIO: 16
GC: 19
OC: 14
TS: 16
AA: 17

Applying October lowers your chance drastically, it wouldn't matter if an applicant had 4.0 gpa and 20+DAT.

Your PAT is on par and RC is ok. Go get Chad's video and a bio material. Check the breakdowns at DAT discussion. 17AA is below matriculated students. Also if you can, take some additional classes, and by getting "A"s only, try to raise some GPA.

 

[pre-dentalguy]

Scores look fine. You'll be accepted somewhere.

 

[LaughingGas]

Scores look fine. You'll be accepted somewhere.

Please stop giving false hopes. When people ask for honest opinion, it's best to provide truth rather than bad encouragement.

 

[pre-dentalguy]

Please stop giving false hopes. When people ask for honest opinion, it's best to provide truth rather than bad encouragement.

That's far from a false hope my friend. You're being too hard a about. The entire point is being honest of whether he has a chance or not... And the fact of the matter is "yes" he does have a chance. Of course the scores could be better but the score are not a deal broker. I've seen plenty of applicants get in with scores similar to his.

Lighten up bro

 

[asne0407]

What were your scores the first time you took it?

 

[pre-dentalguy]

I agree with Swoops. This is all opinion-based. Not trying to misguide you my friend.

Rephrase: Let me just say that your scores could be more competitive but it's not going to leave you with a "0" chance of success.
Good luck to you.

 

[marcuslo721]

Hey guys, what do you think about my chance?

GPA 3.76
Canadian DAT:
RC 16
TS 23
AA 21
PAT 22

80hr volunteering/shadowing dentist
1000+ volunteer (non dental)
1 year Coop/Work experience

Which schools should I apply to? I am really concerned about my RC. Are there schools that put less emphasis on DAT or are there schools that only look at AA and PAT and TS?

 

[free99]

Make your own thread, guy.

 

[doc toothache]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=952937

 

[UCSFx2017]

Those are very low scores. 17/16/21 is not competitive, especially with 14 Bio and 16 OC. National average matriculate DAT scores are approx. 20's all-around. In 2009, the national TS average of all tested applicants was 17.56 with a standard deviation of 2.67. If we were to compare your test to the outcomes of the 2009 exam, your TS of 16 is 1.56 standard deviation below the national average and a whopping 64.8% of testees scored higher than you. Compare your standing to the 4,871 enrollees out of 12,210 applicants in 2009 with a 40% matriculation rate. You have two very low scores in two very important sections that will cause your application to be screened out by most schools. Although some applicants (aznboi89) can compensate for a single low score with high scores in other sections, you have one too many outliers that will raise some red flags.

http://www.ada.org/sections/educationAndCareers/pdfs/dat_users_manual.pdf

I'm being very frank. You also have a very low GPA and this will be the last time to take your DAT. Make sure you spend enough time to be exceptionally prepared. It only takes effort and sufficient time allotment on your part to do well. Think about this very carefully. If you mess up again on this last DAT in an attempt to get in this cycle, you will effectively prevent yourself from getting into dental school forever. If I were in your position, I would first reflect and fix my study habits and motivation and then pursue a Master's/Post-Bacc because I would still have a less-than-likely chance of getting in even with a high DAT score because a 3.2-3.1 GPA is too low. During this Master's/Post-Bacc, I would spend ample time preparing for the DAT. Again, I don't recommend you retake your final DAT this cycle unless you are absolutely prepared to score over 96 percentile (>21) because your GPA is already very limiting.

Objectively critique your application based on numbers alone. Is 3.2 cGPA/3.1 sciGPA and 17/16/21 statistically competitive? No. Would a 3.2 cGPA/3.1 sciGPA and 22/22/22 statistically be competitive? Unfortunately, even with a high DAT this application would still stand a very slim chance without a Master's/Post-Bacc. Just glance at the sub-3.0 group thread and you'll see how hard it was for many of them to get in from past cycles.

 

[UCSFx2017]

Scores look fine.

You're either being very disingenuous or are misinformed.

You'll be accepted somewhere.

How are you so sure of yourself that you would guarantee any person with a future outcome that you have no control over? Do you own a crystal ball?

 

[UCSFx2017]

That's far from a false hope my friend. You're being too hard a about. The entire point is being honest of whether he has a chance or not... And the fact of the matter is "yes" he does have a chance. Of course the scores could be better but the score are not a deal broker.
Lighten up bro

You're willfully misconstruing statistics. Is there a chance that you'll get hit by lightning if it thunderstorms tonight? Yes. But it's only a 0.0000001 chance. If your GPA and DAT is two standard deviations below matriculate GPA and DAT, there still is a chance of getting in but it is negligibly small. In fact, it's practically zero and acting in such a way as if one were guaranteed to be a part of that select few is stupid advice. Although ADEA literature states that approx. 12-16% of matriculates have 3.0's and 7% have 16 TS/17 AA, matriculates having both of worst worlds are probably few to none without post-Bacc or Master's.

I've seen plenty of applicants get in with scores similar to his.

In comparison to your anecdotal account, I've been lurking these threads since '07 and in recent cycles, I've never seen a 3.2-3.1 GPA, 17/16/21 get into dental school without a Master's/Post-Bacc.

 

[dental diva]

to the OP:

you do need a retake, I was in your shoes before pretty much, and most schools dont hold apps from my experience...i was rejected from a few before I was even able to register for my retake. so i'd say focus on retaking and getting a higher score, and then applying after that, only if you do well enough. october IS very late in the game but if you score well, and have some extra cash, i'd go for it, hands down

however, if you don't mind waiting a year, you'd have PLENTY of time to make your app better, bring your grades up, and have more options in terms of what schools you want to go to.

good luck!

 

[UCSFx2017]

I think you're still young. But do consider your situation in case you get stuck with an expensive private school. Assuming you retire at 67 and get in this cycle, you'll graduate at 31 leaving you with 36 years of active practice. Let's also assume you get into USC, take out loan money for tuition and fees only, and tuition doesn't increase (not gonna happen). You're stuck with $362,621 (direct costs + interest) at graduation. This is your possible repayment schedule:

Fixed-costs Only
5-year repayment schedule
Monthly Repayment = $7,236
Yearly Repayment = $86,836
Total Interest = $71,557
Total Repayment = $434,178

10-year repayment schedule
Monthly Repayment = $4,272
Yearly Repayment = $51,263
Total Interest = $150,006
Total Repayment = $512,627

20-year repayment schedule
Monthly Repayment = $2,884
Yearly Repayment = $34,603
Total Interest = $329,448
Total Repayment = $692,069

Let's consider the worst case scenario and you don't get in this cycle and you do a 2-year Master's or Post-Bacc. That leaves you with 34 years of practice. With many banks requiring a monthly debt-to-income ratio of approx. 36%, how long will it take you to find funds for opening your own practice? How long will it take you to pay off that practice? House? What's the typical salary increases per year for a GP? Regardless, I think you're much better off as a USC grad than continuing a career as a dental office manager especially if you find dentistry satisfying.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=14250539#post14250539