Need advice on alternate career paths

[FootDoc40]

I’m a 40 year old Board Certified Podiatrist starting to feel burned out with clinic. Does anyone know of other career paths that can be entered into with our credentials and training? I’m not sure what fields or opportunities I should be looking into.

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[HardRoadPaved]

Forensic podiatry

 

[Sweatshirt]

Buc-ee's

 

[Feli]

Why not just retire fairly young?
Health is the first wealth.

If you're 40 and Abfas cert, you should have at least half your loans paid, some retirement (six figure Roth +/- other 401 etc?), some savings and/or house equity, working a 200k+ job, etc. At very least, you did poorly with money but you're still competitive for boring-but-easy VA/IHS type podiatry work or decent income stuff if Abfas cert.

If you are solo breadwinner and/or have many expenses (cars, low income partner, kids, old debt, high COL area, lavish lifestyle, whatever), then you'll be working awhile longer. No way around that. You could still take a more lax job and retire young-ish; simply lower your expectations and budget (sometimes easier for you than spouse). You could also improve efficiency at current job by spending some weekend days at office/library working as you did for boards study (now goal is to improve templates, ai scribing, brainstorming, create limits on your schedule if you have any partner/owner control, etc).

...Making a total career change is not a good move unless you have a high income partner and/or family money. Even for MDs, they typically take a pay cut leaving clinical medicine. For DPMs, other options barely exist. Your choices are probably work awhile longer doing podiatry... or a long while longer doing something else. GL

 

[heybrother]

I think you need to ask yourself whether you are going to do a podiatry adjacent field, Medicine adjacent field, or go into something entirely different. You are presumably college educated. You’ve worked in a hospital for residency. Perhaps you’ve managed people. Interacted with insurance. Talked to reps. Perhaps you know how bureaucracies work. If you have insight and know how the world works, you may be in a position to transition to another field. One of my reps got let go and sells cars now. People reinvent themselves all the time. Perhaps though you simply need to reinvent your practice. Figure out what you want to focus on. Drop the things that burn you out. Reset your financial expectations. The emergency medicine forum on SDN has had a lot of doctors recently discussing massively cutting their shifts and then simply learning to live on 200 K. They like the job a lot better when they only work eight shifts a month.

 

[Feli]

.... Reset your financial expectations...

100% on reset expectations. This happens to basically every podiatrist I know. The sooner they accept it, the better they do. I realized it in late 30s.

Unless we want to farm associate pods and/or work a ton (usually as hospital FTE), we won't be living lifestyles of the rich n famous or have MD surgeons' income - not even CRNA/IM income. We will have maybe FP/Peds lifestyle typically... if we start our own practice, get partnership, or can get a rare MGMA job for podiatry. On average, we pods make roughly NP money (yet MD/DO loan burden).

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

I’m a 40 year old Board Certified Podiatrist starting to feel burned out with clinic. Does anyone know of other career paths that can be entered into with our credentials and training? I’m not sure what fields or opportunities I should be looking into.

There are a handful of locum podiatry jobs posted every year. You could do two contracts (6 months total) a year and probably make 250-300K. This would give you a breather and allow you to make some money.

 

[bloxxeeey]

Sell grafts.

 

[Hybrocure]

Alaskan crab fishing

 

[Bored Snorlax]

Chair of the CPME Accreditation Committee

 

[PODIATRYCRAZE]

Seen a few podiatrists successfully leave clinical medicine. Realistic options will depend on what you spent the last 10 years doing.

Hospital administrator - did you learn the business skills and make the right connections for this?

Medical sales rep - you are probably overqualified for this. 100-200k earning potential easily.

Medical startup - only possible if you saved enough money. Otherwise this is about as realistic as doing social media for a career.

 

[mandrew]

There are a handful of locum podiatry jobs posted every year. You could do two contracts (6 months total) a year and probably make 250-300K. This would give you a breather and allow you to make some money.

Where does one find these lucrative locum Podiatry jobs?

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

Where does one find these lucrative locum Podiatry jobs?

The internets

Look up locum companies and search. Also sign up for emails in your specialty when they come around.

 

[mandrew]

Faculty position at a college of Podiatric Medicine or other medical school.

 

[podiatryresident]

I’m a 40 year old Board Certified Podiatrist starting to feel burned out with clinic. Does anyone know of other career paths that can be entered into with our credentials and training? I’m not sure what fields or opportunities I should be looking into.

How much are you currently making if you don’t mind sharing? I’m sorry if you don’t want to disclose. Thanks

 

[MicroPod]

Create another board for podiatry?

Oh wait, even that space is saturated…

 

[p100]

Where does one find these lucrative locum Podiatry jobs?

I get a call every 1-2 months from Barton Associates for podiatry locums jobs. Idk what the pay offerings are though as I am not interested in this work.

 

[EthylMethylMan]

My college anatomy professor was a podiatrist. He seemed really happy. Would of course be a pretty sizable pay cut, but maybe you could split time between podiatry and teaching. Less clinic time could decrease burnout without fully giving up the podiatry income.

 

[deleted1162946]

I don’t want to post the Instagram screenshots. But a podiatrist with a pretty big following on Instagram posted some stories tonight talking about how reimbursements in podiatry suck and how students should look elsewhere. The word is definitely getting out that this profession is terrible. The only people truly going through with the schooling at this point are highly uneducated on the realities of the profession or just extremely desperate to be a “doctor”

 

[HardRoadPaved]

The only people truly going through with the schooling at this point are highly uneducated on the realities of the profession or just extremely desperate to be a “doctor”

Deans be like...

 

[icebreaker32]

I don’t want to post the Instagram screenshots. But a podiatrist with a pretty big following on Instagram posted some stories tonight talking about how reimbursements in podiatry suck and how students should look elsewhere. The word is definitely getting out that this profession is terrible. The only people truly going through with the schooling at this point are highly uneducated on the realities of the profession or just extremely desperate to be a “doctor”

A ROI gamble that pays off very well for some, horribly for a few and somewhere in the middle for most (debt level and income of spouse can become huge in this typical middle band between being able to live an upper middle class lifestyle and retire at a decent age or not).

It helps to be a self starter or have an edge (job connections, superior training, charisma etc.) compared with others or be extremely open geographically. With a few exceptions, no one is really recruited while in residency like other specialties.

If one really knows all the pros/cons of podiatry versus being a PA or NP and picks podiatry I see no problem with their decision.

If one chooses podiatry because all surgeons have to be rich and the one they know/shadowed is doing great.....that alone can be misleading.

 

[Feli]

A ROI gamble that pays off very well for some, horribly for a few and somewhere in the middle for most (debt level and income of spouse can become huge in this typical middle band between being able to live an upper middle class lifestyle and retire at a decent age or not). ...

This is the truth.

I went over some WCI blogs with the long weekend, and I liked this one a lot...

How Fast Can You Get Out of Debt? | White Coat Investor

Get as mad at debt as I am. Do the math, make a plan, take control, and seize the life you want by paying off your debt FAST.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

The 4th paragraph really hits home... very sadly accurate about the drag of debt (both $$ and mental):

"A Race Against Burnout
Many doctors think they have decades to pay off their student loans. They look at the burden, and it looks like a mortgage. These days it may be even larger than the mortgage. But there is a huge difference. You can sell the darn house at any time and pay off the mortgage. You've taken a mortgage out on your brain, and you better hope you can pay it off before someone forecloses on it. You don't have three decades. You've got five years—10 at the most. Trust me. By then, you will want to have that debt out of your life. You will want to cut back a bit from that crazy pace you agreed to after residency because it seemed so much easier than the 80+ hours you had been working. By then, that $200,000-$300,000 you're being paid won't seem like nearly that much money. And this career that you desired so much as a 20-year-old may feel like golden handcuffs 20 years later. You want to practice on your own terms, but you can't. Because of that stupid debt that felt like monopoly money back in med school. ..."

...Podiatry usually starts with a fair-to-poor ROI (lower than most 'lower-paying' MD specialties) and few job options, but it's still very critically important to get out of debt asap. It can be done. Better jobs or frugality help, but partner/spouse selection matters a whole lot. Those poor DPMs who think they'll just work any job and pay minimums on student loans for 20 or 25 years and spend the rest how they want are so much trouble; they largely have no idea. These days, that's the majority of our grads coming out (esp with fellowship added debt).

 

[MoostashPod]

This is the truth.

I went over some WCI blogs with the long weekend, and I liked this one a lot...

How Fast Can You Get Out of Debt? | White Coat Investor

Get as mad at debt as I am. Do the math, make a plan, take control, and seize the life you want by paying off your debt FAST.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

The 4th paragraph really hits home... very sadly accurate about the drag of debt (both $$ and mental):

"A Race Against Burnout
Many doctors think they have decades to pay off their student loans. They look at the burden, and it looks like a mortgage. These days it may be even larger than the mortgage. But there is a huge difference. You can sell the darn house at any time and pay off the mortgage. You've taken a mortgage out on your brain, and you better hope you can pay it off before someone forecloses on it. You don't have three decades. You've got five years—10 at the most. Trust me. By then, you will want to have that debt out of your life. You will want to cut back a bit from that crazy pace you agreed to after residency because it seemed so much easier than the 80+ hours you had been working. By then, that $200,000-$300,000 you're being paid won't seem like nearly that much money. And this career that you desired so much as a 20-year-old may feel like golden handcuffs 20 years later. You want to practice on your own terms, but you can't. Because of that stupid debt that felt like monopoly money back in med school. ..."

...Podiatry usually starts with a fair-to-poor ROI (lower than most 'lower-paying' MD specialties) and few job options, but it's still very critically important to get out of debt asap. It can be done. Better jobs or frugality help, but partner/spouse selection matters a whole lot. Those poor DPMs who think they'll just work any job and pay minimums on student loans for 20 or 25 years and spend the rest how they want are so much trouble; they largely have no idea. These days, that's the majority of our grads coming out (esp with fellowship added debt).

That read was depressing to say the least. I can't fathom having student loans debt drag for that much time, 20-25 years, let alone waiting for the government for forgiveness of any sort on a given payment plan. The interest freeze so far has been beneficial and is in our advantage to tackle the loans. I'm glad to not be in the majority that you mentioned and put a cap/goal of 5 years to pay it back. I can't imagine 10 years. Debt free will be so liberating.

 

[Dr.PatchAdams]

I don’t know what the future holds for PSLF but for those grads securing institutional jobs, it is an incredible option (previously only reserved for public service/VA positions).

Beginning July 2023, you can list the EIN of the 501(c)(3) you're contracted with if state law prohibits your direct employment (ie. physicians at Kaiser, Palo Alto Medical Foundation, etc.)

 

[Feli]

I don’t know what the future holds for PSLF but for those grads securing institutional jobs, it is an incredible option (previously only reserved for public service/VA positions).

Beginning July 2023, you can list the EIN of the 501(c)(3) you're contracted with if state law prohibits your direct employment (ie. physicians at Kaiser, Palo Alto Medical Foundation, etc.)

It is good (and pslf should last... although it has changed again and again), but let's get real:

If you have a 250k+ podiatry job (maybe a quarter of DPMs?) that most institution gigs for DPMs pay, then 120 payments IBR is over 3k monthly (maybe a lot more) and the person is paying probably over 400k in total payments during that span anyways. It is not a savings of a ton of money unless one's loans are way over 300k to begin with and/or the salary is lower end for an org pod job and/or there is some hack to minimize income and IBR (child or various deductions, veil some of salary, etc... hard in a w2 job).

For MD salaries at those hospital FTE jobs, they'll usually have it paid off same/faster than the 10yrs just by doing standard repay schedule with occasional overpays. The MD/DO docs avoided VA/IHS as PSLF was nowhere near worth the lower rate vs private sector... and PSLF extended still doesn't help them a ton in hospital jobs either (IBR very high).

...For podiatry, if we can get those org jobs that qualify, you've kinda already won the game (whether you go aggro repay, standard, or PSLF and IBR). It's not a panacea, though... PSLF at a good job is still a LOT of payback money, and PSLF has had many snags at the finish line. The bigger issue is that the vaaast majority of pods end up making much less and/or working jobs that are not qualifying.

 

[Dr.PatchAdams]

Three years of residency salaried payments will count. So you’re really looking at 84 payments, and under SAVE/REPAYE/PAYE it’s 10% of discretionary income. So for sake of example on a 300k gross income you’re paying 2200 monthly or 185-200k after 120 qualifying payments over 10 years (SAVE & IDR Plan Payment Calculator - EDCAPNY.org). This doesn’t take into account increases in pay over the years however.

You’re absolutely right in that most will not have this option available to them, unfortunately.

 

[Feli]

... on a 300k gross income you’re paying 2200 monthly ....

I've never seen any calc that favorable, but you never know I suppose. Maybe it's possible with many deductions or married, etc?

The normal IBR for a 300k person is 3k/mo or more... much more if single no ded (basically standard 10yr amount).

Are you talking about Paye plan or Save plan or something? I think those have gone kaput.

It is a good point on the residency 3yrs counting for PSLF, though (again, assuming a qual job afterwards).

 

[DYK343]

Three years of residency salaried payments will count. So you’re really looking at 84 payments, and under SAVE/REPAYE/PAYE it’s 10% of discretionary income. So for sake of example on a 300k gross income you’re paying 2200 monthly or 185-200k after 120 qualifying payments over 10 years (SAVE & IDR Plan Payment Calculator - EDCAPNY.org). This doesn’t take into account increases in pay over the years however.

You’re absolutely right in that most will not have this option available to them, unfortunately.

Anyone in the program during covid year(s) got 2ish (dont know exactly) free years of $0 payments credited to their 120.
Huge savings.

 

[heybrother]

All of this is pocket change compared to what a successful podiatrist moving hospital to hospital picking up signing bonuses and severance pay can make. You'll be knee deep in lasagna in no time.