Need advice on working as a student

[TheDrugMan]

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This has probably been posted before in some form or another but I would just like to know many of you work full-time while attending medical school?

The reason I ask is because I work full-time at night (11 PM to 7:30 AM) and was wondering if I can still do it. I have two weekdays off in a row and work the weekends. I have alot of downtime at work and can probably get at least 4 hours of quiet study time in every night. My plan would be to go to work, then head straight to school. Would this be a workable schedule????

 

[Law2Doc]

This has probably been posted before in some form or another but I would just like to know many of you work full-time while attending medical school?

The reason I ask is because I work full-time at night (11 PM to 7:30 AM) and was wondering if I can still do it. I have two weekdays off in a row and work the weekends. I have alot of downtime at work and can probably get at least 4 hours of quiet study time in every night. My plan would be to go to work, then head straight to school. Would this be a workable schedule????

Not a chance, at least at most schools I'm familiar with. In general, people tend to need to treat med school as a full time job. People who do manage to have jobs while in med school generally tend to be relatively modest part-time hours. It is wisest to start med school with no such entanglements and see how it goes, and after an exam or two, if you are hacking it, you can add in whatever hours you find it possible -- many don't find they have time to spare though. And I don't really get where you think you are going to sleep in your schedule -- if you are working all night and doing school/studying all day...

And then once you get past the first two years your schedule (even at night) really ceases to be your own so few are able to hold any sort of job at that point.

 

[Critical Mass]

I agree with L2D on this one.

I was working 70/hours a week right up until school started. Then I took my accumulated leave for a couple of months while I started school. I returned to a part-time workload which started at about 30 hours/week at the onset of an exam block and dwindled toward 1 shift/week the week before tests. No working during exam weeks for me.

Even so, my M1 grades (nearly straight B's) would be considered unsatisfactory by the standards of most of my classmates.

I'll also point out that my school doesn't make me come to class most of the time. There is no way that I could manage working if they made me show up to class.

 

[TheDrugMan]

Not a chance, at least at most schools I'm familiar with. In general, people tend to need to treat med school as a full time job. People who do manage to have jobs while in med school generally tend to be relatively modest part-time hours. It is wisest to start med school with no such entanglements and see how it goes, and after an exam or two, if you are hacking it, you can add in whatever hours you find it possible -- many don't find they have time to spare though. And I don't really get where you think you are going to sleep in your schedule -- if you are working all night and doing school/studying all day...

And then once you get past the first two years your schedule (even at night) really ceases to be your own so few are able to hold any sort of job at that point.

Thank you for advising me. I figured it would be a hard task. I forgot to mention that I can probably get a few hours sleep at work as well. I can lay down on the conveyer belts at work if I get tired🙂 It's really not like sleeping at home though.

I am a non-traditional student and would need a way to support myself and my family since my wife doesn't work. I thought about joining the Navy and having them carry me through it. I'm a federal employee so I can still keep my job as well. What do you guys think?

 

[GuitarHero1]

Full time job during med school sounds rather masochistic. But I do understand the OP's predicament, it sounds tough.

 

[OncoCaP]

Thank you for advising me. I figured it would be a hard task. I forgot to mention that I can probably get a few hours sleep at work as well. I can lay down on the conveyer belts at work if I get tired🙂 It's really not like sleeping at home though.

I am a non-traditional student and would need a way to support myself and my family since my wife doesn't work. I thought about joining the Navy and having them carry me through it. I'm a federal employee so I can still keep my job as well. What do you guys think?

I'm also an entering non-trad. Have you looked into the MD/PhD programs? They pay you when you go MD/PhD, but you give up time and need to do research (and be accepted into that program, of course). Look at the military section of SDN before you sign up with the armed forces. In my case, I have no plans for gainful employment until internship/residency. I have planned my finances accordingly.

How sold are you on medicine? I'm not sure I would be going back if I had to work a job to support my family's basic needs in addition to going to med school. I would probably work and save up money before I started school or make sure I had a way to borrow / live off what financial aid I could get. Also, there are plenty of other professions (engineering, pharmacy, PA, nursing, law, business, dentistry) that don't require as much schooling and in some cases have opportunities to work at least part-time.

 

[Critical Mass]

I really wouldn't recommend mudphud to anybody who wasn't completely sold on some type of research career. (I also wouldn't recommend it to the majority of those who are.)

With the added information, I would wait until your kids are school-age and then have your wife put the steaks in the freezer.

 

[Oceaner]

I really wouldn't recommend mudphud to anybody who wasn't completely sold on some type of research career. (I also wouldn't recommend it to the majority of those who are.)

With the added information, I would wait until your kids are school-age and then have your wife put the steaks in the freezer.

what's wrong with mudphud? it sounds pretty reasonable to do it if you don't have funding...

 

[Critical Mass]

what's wrong with mudphud? it sounds pretty reasonable to do it if you don't have funding...

I am strongly against doing it for the money alone, and every M3+ mudphud I've ever talked to has agreed with me. The reason is that you will invariably feel lost and depressed doing bench research for 3-4 (or more) years if you really didn't want to do that sort of thing while your friends are off actually learning how to practice medicine. In the long run, most agree that 3-4 years of a practicing doctor's salary is worth more than an MD/PhD scholarship. Plus many mudphuds have a tough time adjusting back to medicine after the research phase. I have 2 friends who spent 5 years on the Ph.D. portion and don't even remember how to do a physical exam. Plus they are now thrown back into the pool with students who have received better PE training due to curriculum adaptations in the meanwhile.

Furthermore, if you don't have some research experience and obvious motivation for a career in research, you don't stand a chance in the application process. Schools are very picky about who they are going to gamble a quarter of a million dollars on.

After much debate on the topic, my view is that the single best way to go about a medical career is to concentrate all fire power on doing well in a traditional, 4-year medical school program without the added stressors of additional degrees or jobs. Every residency program out there will judge you on your step 1 and M3 evals, so there is no reason to place those things in jeopardy whatsoever. USMLE is not like the MCAT (assuming you pass, that is).

Look. If you had one shot, one opportunity, to seize everything you've ever wanted. One moment. Would you capture it? Or just let it slip?

You can go off and do an MPH, Ph.D., rural care for reimbursement, military, whatever, once you've sealed your destiny.

This opportunity comes once in a lifetime. You can do anything you set your mind to, man.

 

[dannylee718]

Look. If you had one shot, one opportunity, to seize everything you've ever wanted. One moment. Would you capture it? Or just let it slip?

...Cue muted electric guitar...

"Palms are sweaty... mom's spaghetti"

 

[sirus_virus]

I agree with Critical Mass. You don't do an MD/PHD for short term monetary gains. You might be saving money on the front end while you are in medschool, but those 3-5 extra years you spend doing research are years you could have spent making money as a physician, and I am not sure the math works out in favor of the MD/Phd, especially if you were just doing it for the money.

 

[TheGalvaniFrog]

Plus, if you don't care for research at all, you would be absolutely miserable during those PhD years.

 

[Critical Mass]

...Cue muted electric guitar...

"Palms are sweaty... mom's spaghetti"

👍

Your avatar still disturbs me... Misty finally changed hers.

I also wouldn't recommend the military unless you are passionate about a career in the armed services.

 

[Reimat]

I agree with Critical Mass. You don't do an MD/PHD for short term monetary gains. You might be saving money on the front end while you are in medschool, but those 3-5 extra years you spend doing research are years you could have spent making money as a physician, and I am not sure the math works out in favor of the MD/Phd, especially if you were just doing it for the money.

This is exactly the argument I always make - you're saving ~120-200 (maybe ~300 if you are supporting a family) on the front end to lose 3-4 years off the end of career salary (likely at least 175-200 x 4 = 700-800). So, while avoiding debt may be appealing, the cost savings are not in favor of doing the MD/PhD. And as Critical Mass said, they work hard to screen out the people who are in it for the money.

Lastly, I just want to say that I applied MD/PhD, was accepted into a few programs, and decided to go MD only because it wasn't worth taking the extra time to save money. Although, I must admit having full-tuition and a stipend was tempting...

edit: just wanted to say that I really intended to have a research career when applying MD/PhD, but realized late into the process that a research focused career wasn't right for me. I don't want to make it sound like I applied for the money

 

[TheDrugMan]

I will be 32 this year and need to apply before I lose my hair. I am pretty set on medicine. I have always loved science. The military programs have some guidelines which are questionable. I forgot to mention that I have about $80,000 saved up and a credit line (unsecured) of $180,000 I can tap into.
This may sound kind of stupid but I was thinking maybe I can pay for my medical school with the credit lines, live off the $80,000 cash and then file Chapter 7 during the later stages of medical school (while I am broke) and walk out of it debt free. Of course this will have an impact on my perfect credit record 🙁
It may sound kind of shady but at least the money will be invested wisely. The reason why I think it will work is because all my cash will be depleted and I will be broke by the fourth year of medical school, which would make me a valid bankruptcy candidate 🙂

 

[deleted77919]

This may work so long as you don't take any federal educational loans. They are only canceled by death, nothing else.

But it sounds like a horrendously bad idea.

 

[mudphudwannabe]

👎 That sounds like a really bad idea. Student loans aren't that bad and generally have decent interest rates. Everyone has them and everyone eventually pays them off (and if they're smart, they don't end up in the poorhouse), so don't do something stupid just to avoid them. Definitely talk to a financial advisor of some type before trying to pull a stunt like this. I'm not sure what kind of consequences filing for bankruptcy might have on your professional career (although I'd bet there would be some, especially if you want to go into private practice), but if you ever want to get a loan to buy a house, you'll get screwed with high interest rates if you don't have great credit.

 

[notdeadyet]

This may sound kind of stupid but I was thinking maybe I can pay for my medical school with the credit lines, live off the $80,000 cash and then file Chapter 7 during the later stages of medical school (while I am broke) and walk out of it debt free. Of course this will have an impact on my perfect credit record 🙁

Possibly jeopardizing your ability to get loans for your children's education for the sake of doing a later-in-life career change seems a bit short-sighted.

Take a few years to save the money to pay for the college, or to bide time until the kids go to school and don't need a stay-at-home mom so your wife can work. I've been accepted to medical school at 35. It isn't easy, but it'd do-able. It's better than gambling that the Chapter 7 laws don't change in the next five years.

 

[dilated]

This may sound kind of stupid but I was thinking maybe I can pay for my medical school with the credit lines, live off the $80,000 cash and then file Chapter 7 during the later stages of medical school (while I am broke) and walk out of it debt free. Of course this will have an impact on my perfect credit record 🙁
It may sound kind of shady but at least the money will be invested wisely. The reason why I think it will work is because all my cash will be depleted and I will be broke by the fourth year of medical school, which would make me a valid bankruptcy candidate 🙂

this is hilarious. you do realize there isn't some magical bankruptcy machine that spits out debt clearance once your bank account hits 0 right? a judge looks at your assets and earning potential and then has a lot of freedom on how he wants to deal with things. when he sees you'll be making 200k in a couple years, probability of loan clearance: 0.

 

[Law2Doc]

This may sound kind of stupid but I was thinking maybe I can pay for my medical school with the credit lines, live off the $80,000 cash and then file Chapter 7 during the later stages of medical school (while I am broke) and walk out of it debt free. Of course this will have an impact on my perfect credit record 🙁
It may sound kind of shady but at least the money will be invested wisely. The reason why I think it will work is because all my cash will be depleted and I will be broke by the fourth year of medical school, which would make me a valid bankruptcy candidate 🙂

That's a pretty bad idea. You will in all probability need decent credit as a professional in a few years. If you plan to buy into a partnership, open up an office, buy/lease equipment for an office, get a line of credit for a business, buy a house etc., you will be creating a bad hurdle for yourself in this way, at exactly the time when you will actually have a need for good credit. And as a prior poster indicated, you probably may still be on the hook for a good chunk of the funds over time anyhow, thanks to your earning potential.

 

[OncoCaP]

I will be 32 this year and need to apply before I lose my hair. I am pretty set on medicine. I have always loved science. The military programs have some guidelines which are questionable. I forgot to mention that I have about $80,000 saved up and a credit line (unsecured) of $180,000 I can tap into.
This may sound kind of stupid but I was thinking maybe I can pay for my medical school with the credit lines, live off the $80,000 cash and then file Chapter 7 during the later stages of medical school (while I am broke) and walk out of it debt free. Of course this will have an impact on my perfect credit record 🙁
It may sound kind of shady but at least the money will be invested wisely. The reason why I think it will work is because all my cash will be depleted and I will be broke by the fourth year of medical school, which would make me a valid bankruptcy candidate 🙂

The bankruptcy idea sounds dishonest and, as you say, stupid. 🙁

On a more positive note, you do have some cash to work with, so that's a good thing. You can also get financial aid and borrow money. Make sure you go to a school that is not super expensive to maximize the amount of loan money you can live off. Seems to me that you should be able to make it if you cut way back on your living expenses and borrow money.

 

[Miami_med]

I have a two year old and a wife. I take loans. My wife works a bit. Bite the bullet, take the loans. If you've got the $80k, supplement with that, and you'll be more than fine. I went in with $5k. Your $80k may jeapordize the subsidized portion of your loans, but you can still borrow the full amount. Atleast for the first two years, my wife worked some when I was able to be home (got a flexible job). It was a good break for me with my kid.

The big question should be whether you really want to commit the next 7+ years to medical training and many more years recovering financially. If yes, you'll figure it out without being dishonest.

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

This has probably been posted before in some form or another but I would just like to know many of you work full-time while attending medical school?

The reason I ask is because I work full-time at night (11 PM to 7:30 AM) and was wondering if I can still do it. I have two weekdays off in a row and work the weekends. I have alot of downtime at work and can probably get at least 4 hours of quiet study time in every night. My plan would be to go to work, then head straight to school. Would this be a workable schedule????

I'm one of those people that always say that there is plenty of time to do "other" things during medical school if you budget your time well. But working full time sounds like way too much, and even if it is technically possible to pass med school while doing that, you're just begging to burn out fairly early in the year. Plus, you'll be hurting your chances of securing the residency that you really want. So I say do it if you must, but if you have any option at all (extra loans, etc), cut work down to minimal hours, or none at all.

 

[foofish]

Thank you for advising me. I figured it would be a hard task. I forgot to mention that I can probably get a few hours sleep at work as well. I can lay down on the conveyer belts at work if I get tired🙂 It's really not like sleeping at home though.

I am a non-traditional student and would need a way to support myself and my family since my wife doesn't work. I thought about joining the Navy and having them carry me through it. I'm a federal employee so I can still keep my job as well. What do you guys think?

Maybe I missed this, but does your wife not work by choice or because she's unable to?

 

[TheDrugMan]

Maybe I missed this, but does your wife not work by choice or because she's unable to?

A little bit of both 🙂

We had a baby in November of 2006 and she has not worked since then. She worked two jobs for the 6 years we were married before the baby, but neither lasted more then 3 months 🙂
She does not have any education beyond high school or any skills to find a well paying job. Unfortunately I am the motivated one and she's not. I tried to push her to go to school years ago and eventually gave up. She does a great job with the kid and the house though. I just wish she wasn't so dependent on me.

 

[OncoCaP]

A little bit of both 🙂

We had a baby in November of 2006 and she has not worked since then. She worked two jobs for the 6 years we were married before the baby, but neither lasted more then 3 months 🙂
She does not have any education beyond high school or any skills to find a well paying job. Unfortunately I am the motivated one and she's not. I tried to push her to go to school years ago and eventually gave up. She does a great job with the kid and the house though. I just wish she wasn't so dependent on me.

Hmmm. Is there a little resentment here ...?

You have a good chance to make it work out, DrugMan. Are you entering this year?

 

[mudphudwannabe]

I'm not trying to be mean here, but to be perfectly honest, it doesn't sound to me like you are ready to take on the responsibility of going to medical school and becoming a doctor. If you want to go to medical school, you have to pay for medical school. Especially with a wife and child who are completely dependent on you, I can't imagine why you would even be considering taking such a huge financial risk as you just described. I really hope that I am wrong here.

Going to medical school is a big commitment. If you are going into it for the money, there are other ways to make money that don't require the investment of time and money that medicine does. Take a good hard look at what is important to you, and decide if going into medicine is really necessary for your future happiness.

 

[TheDrugMan]

I'm not trying to be mean here, but to be perfectly honest, it doesn't sound to me like you are ready to take on the responsibility of going to medical school and becoming a doctor. If you want to go to medical school, you have to pay for medical school. Especially with a wife and child who are completely dependent on you, I can't imagine why you would even be considering taking such a huge financial risk as you just described. I really hope that I am wrong here.

Going to medical school is a big commitment. If you are going into it for the money, there are other ways to make money that don't require the investment of time and money that medicine does. Take a good hard look at what is important to you, and decide if going into medicine is really necessary for your future happiness.

Mudphudwannabe

I have an easy federal job with decent pay (60K) and benefits. It's extremely boring and not challenging in any way. I can move around but there is very little room for advancement as far as the pay goes. I dont have any financial problems but I just feel like I need to catch up on my wasted years. I really enjoy school now but hated it so much when I was younger.

No offense but I would like to clarify something and I think most would agree with me. I dont know what world you're living in but money is always a factor when choosing a career. It just can't be the main factor. Go ask any neurosurgeon or anesthesiologist if they would be willing to work the rest of their lives for free and I can assure you that it wouldn't happen. If you told every medical student that their is no money at the end of the tunnel then you wouldn't have a medical school anymore.

Why do foreign doctors leave their homeland to come here and practice?
If they had a dying passion to practice medicine (for free) then I can assure you that they would be doing it in their own country. Money will always be a factor. Sometimes it takes a good look at a bum in the street to make us realize this.
I'm not a greedy person but MONEY = SECURITY in this world. It's sad but true🙁

 

[jope]

Mudphudwannabe

I have an easy federal job with decent pay (60K) and benefits. It's extremely boring and not challenging in any way. I can move around but there is very little room for advancement as far as the pay goes. I dont have any financial problems but I just feel like I need to catch up on my wasted years. I really enjoy school now but hated it so much when I was younger.

No offense but I would like to clarify something and I think most would agree with me. I dont know what world you're living in but money is always a factor when choosing a career. It just can't be the main factor. Go ask any neurosurgeon or anesthesiologist if they would be willing to work the rest of their lives for free and I can assure you that it wouldn't happen. If you told every medical student that their is no money at the end of the tunnel then you wouldn't have a medical school anymore.

Why do foreign doctors leave their homeland to come here and practice?
If they had a dying passion to practice medicine (for free) then I can assure you that they would be doing it in their own country. Money will always be a factor. Sometimes it takes a good look at a bum in the street to make us realize this.
I'm not a greedy person but MONEY = SECURITY in this world. It's sad but true🙁

Amen to that...hehe if docs only made like 50k a year, ppl wouldn't be scrambling all over each other to get in. It really gets tiring to hear most of my classmates all saying how it's not that much money and there are many other ways to make that much cash etc. Maybe it's just I hang out more with a less successful crowd, but pretty much everyone I know who didn't go to med school are not pulling in anywhere close to doctor salaries.

 

[TheDrugMan]

Amen to that...hehe if docs only made like 50k a year, ppl wouldn't be scrambling all over each other to get in. It really gets tiring to hear most of my classmates all saying how it's not that much money and there are many other ways to make that much cash etc. Maybe it's just I hang out more with a less successful crowd, but pretty much everyone I know who didn't go to med school are not pulling in anywhere close to doctor salaries.

Exactly. There are many other ways to make money but the question is how much money? It's easier said than done 🙂

 

[megadon]

I'm prior military, and HPSP, and I have a couple pieces of advice. DO NOT GO MILITARY SOLELY TO PAY FOR SCHOOL!!! Or else you will be like the 98% of disgruntled people on the military side of this forum. I will not lie to you, signing with the military is a lot like prostitution, when you sign, you sign your body and your life. Unless the military is something you want to do, it's not worth all the BS you will go through. If you want to learn about beaucratic dysfunction, and left hand not knowing what the right is doing, go find someone who has served.

You have money saved up, great. You have good credit and a lot of untapped credit, even better. Keep it that way, take out the loans. Use the money you have saved to continue living your lifestyle the way your family is accustomed to, because the budget you submit for the loans will not support that.

As far as working, let me say what I haven't seen so far. You're a medical student, that is a full time job. That is the one and only reason you are at school, and it may very well occupy all your time. Anything you can fit in on the side is just that, a side gig. Plus it will only be for the first two years, years three and four when you are doing clerkships are particulary non-amenable to working full time. It's hard to work a backshift when you are the hospital on call all night.

 

[dannylee718]

👍

Your avatar still disturbs me... Misty finally changed hers.

I also wouldn't recommend the military unless you are passionate about a career in the armed services.

I apologize if my avatar is disturbing. Thats just a really accurate representation of how I look when my mama calls me down for dinner.