Need advice: scrambled into prelim surg, but now interested in EM

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GoBeers

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For this past ERAS cycle, I applied ortho and unfortunately did not match. However during that month of March, I was on my EM rotation and had surprisingly loved it. During the scramble though, after being disillusioned from not matching into ortho program, I decided to take a prelim surgery spot at a very reputable program in the west coast. My thought process was to be in a great school that excelled in multiple disciplines and keeping sure that I had sufficient years of residency-paid medicare eligibility. At this time, I suppose my options are surg vs. anesthesia vs. EM.

My stats are:
Top 40 US school.
Graduated with honors (~top 25%) but not AOA.
Step 1 is 252. step 2 is 255.
Several leadership roles (student council, creating new clubs)
3 research projects (in pulmonology and ortho) although no pubs or even abstracts.

I'm wondering how US prelim surg applicants are viewed in the EM interview trail. And in terms of setting up my application, at this point I would need to schedule an EM rotation early and get as many SLOEs as possible correct? I don't have the luxury of doing away rotations, so I would have to get SLOEs from 2-3 different attendings, including the PD?

Thank you for your time and help, everyone.
 
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For this past ERAS cycle, I applied ortho and unfortunately did not match. However during that month of March, I was on my EM rotation and had surprisingly loved it. During the scramble though, after being disillusioned from not matching into ortho program, I decided to take a prelim surgery spot at a very reputable program in the west coast. My thought process was to be in a great school that excelled in multiple disciplines and keeping sure that I had sufficient years of residency-paid medicare eligibility. At this time, I suppose my options are surg vs. anesthesia vs. EM.

My stats are:
Top 40 US school.
Graduated with honors (~top 25%) but not AOA.
Step 1 is 252. step 2 is 255.
Several leadership roles (student council, creating new clubs)
3 research projects (in pulmonology and ortho) although no pubs or even abstracts.

I'm wondering how US prelim surg applicants are viewed in the EM interview trail. And in terms of setting up my application, at this point I would need to schedule an EM rotation early and get as many SLOEs as possible correct? I don't have the luxury of doing away rotations, so I would have to get SLOEs from 2-3 different attendings, including the PD?

Thank you for your time and help, everyone.

That sucks. I'm surprised you didn't match. It doesn't seem to be a numbers problem. Was there a bad letter, do you interview poorly, did you not apply to enough places, or are you just terribly unlucky. I suggest you figure out that question no matter what you end up going into.

Assuming you're serious about abandoning your ortho career and serious about EM, start by talking to the EM program director at the institution at which you'll be doing your prelim year. And I suggest you be ultra-nice on every consult you take from the ED this year! I wouldn't worry about being looked down on because you did a year in surgery. It's probably an asset.
 
Thank you for your response.
My letters were fine and I highly doubt my interviewing skills are in question. Given the fact that there were ~1000+ applicants for 700 spots, someone had to fall... I was foolish in only applying to big city markets despite my overall average application (not AOA and no abstracts/pubs).

Anyways, the more I have thought about it since March, the less likely I will be shooting for ortho... or even surgery at all. Ortho would be too much of a crap shoot, even if I did more research... so without a gaurantee, I don't want to gamble again at the age of 28 with a family looming near, heh heh.

ENT was awesome but that would be a lateral move and general surgery just doesn't interest me. As it stands, I would be happy with vying for an EM position. I am just wondering what the logistics are for getting those SLOEs. Can I ask any attending in one particular EM department? Or do I get a SLOE only from a department head...thereby needing to do two different EM rotation sites? It seems that many EM programs request 2 of 3 letters for SLOE format.
 
The SLOR needs to be written by an attending at an academic program. If you have that where you will be working, you can get that letter.
Should also be able to get it from your med student rotation.
Good luck.
You should do well as long as you apply broadly.
Over apply and be more selective as long as you get a bunch of interviews.
 
Thank you for your response.
My letters were fine and I highly doubt my interviewing skills are in question. Given the fact that there were ~1000+ applicants for 700 spots, someone had to fall... I was foolish in only applying to big city markets despite my overall average application (not AOA and no abstracts/pubs).

Anyways, the more I have thought about it since March, the less likely I will be shooting for ortho... or even surgery at all. Ortho would be too much of a crap shoot, even if I did more research... so without a gaurantee, I don't want to gamble again at the age of 28 with a family looming near, heh heh.

ENT was awesome but that would be a lateral move and general surgery just doesn't interest me. As it stands, I would be happy with vying for an EM position. I am just wondering what the logistics are for getting those SLOEs. Can I ask any attending in one particular EM department? Or do I get a SLOE only from a department head...thereby needing to do two different EM rotation sites? It seems that many EM programs request 2 of 3 letters for SLOE format.

I quit my first career and went to med school at 30. You are very young. One year is a drop in the bucket of life, so just be sure EM is what you want and that your ortho aspirations (or surgery for that matter...) are dead. I am also very surprised that you didn't match in ortho and I would think your chances good if you put a lot of energy into matching again and applied everywhere.

That being said, I trained with a guy who didn't match ortho, became disillusioned with surgery and jumped into EM. I'm pretty sure he's happy. I work with a guy who was surgery for 2 years before jumping ship to EM and he also is happy. Your numbers are good though. I would think that with enough time, optimal strategy and effort, you could get whatever you wanted though.
 
Hey man, I normally lurk SDN but I literally just registered an account because I saw your post and wanted to give you my story as it's slightly similar to yours. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me at all if we knew each other too lol.

Our stats are nearly identical (top 20 school, 250, 260, top 25% but no AOA, several research projects but no pubs) and I wanted to do ortho for a good part of medical school. I even took a year off between third and fourth year to do dedicated ortho basic science research.

I loved ortho and I thought I was a good candidate. Towards the end of my research year it was getting clear that my efforts were not going to pay off as the project wasn't working out as I expected. I wasn't able to publish anything, and really wasn't able to get any abstracts or posters out either. The project was just too new and I would realistically need a PhD level effort to complete it or get something out of it.

Anyway, my mentor and PI (very accomplished orthopod at my institution) basically told me that my chances were pretty slim because I had this huge red flag of taking a full year off and not having anything to show for it. He actually also told me that I really didn't fit the orthopod stereotype and unfortunately ortho being an old boys club, they really care about that (I'm a short, skinny, asian guy.. pretty nerdy actually). Just like EM, ortho is looking for a "fit" and with ortho that fit tends to be tall, white, athletic, jock and I clearly wasn't it. My PI told me I should have a really good back up because I likely wasn't going to match. This was really heartbreaking.

Given other life events that happened on my research year (sick family members, sports injury of my own, and financial/money issues as I was living purely off savings since my position only offered a meager stipend), I ended up decided that ortho wasn't for me and that I should look elsewhere.

EM was the only specialty I liked next to ortho because of a variety of reasons, but it was still #2 to ortho. I figured whatever, and scheduled 3 EM subIs.

On my first subI I realized I really like EM and could see myself doing it as a career. The second subI confirmed this, and the third subI made me realize I should be really careful about "choosing" the right program because I didn't like my time at that hospital. I got honors in my first two subIs and a high pass at the third one. I had outstanding evaluations, really amazing SLOEs (from what people told me), and I was well liked at all the programs I worked at.

Anyway interviews came around, and I ended up interviewing decently given my scores and such. However, I was met with quite a bit of skeptiscism about my "commitment to EM." Almost every interviewer wanted to know how sure I was of EM, especially since my entire application screamed orthopedics. I did my best to convince them (really loved my subIs, loved taking care of patients from all walks of live with every kind of medical problem, thought EM was one of the few specialties left where you really get good at diagnosing, felt like EM was ideally poised to handle the ACA the impending changes to our healthcare system, etc etc etc).

I ended up matching at my SECOND TO LAST RANK at a program I really didn't want to go to but I pretty much put down because I'd rather match at a safety school then not match at all. It was pretty disheartening to think about all the work I had done to end up at a small unknown EM program in a state far away from where I wanted to be.

Retrospectively I guess I should be super happy and blessed that I matched at all, but holy balls man, you'd think with my application that I'd at least end up somewhere semi-desirable. EM is just too competitive now to expect anything out of the match. You're up against people who have been EMTs, went to medical school to be an EM doc, and live/eat/breath EM like there's nothing else one needs to live.

I'm still a little bitter about the whole deal, but I just want to give you a heads up especially in your situation where you're no longer a AMG senior coming out of medical school. You're "damaged goods" in the sense that you still thought you'd pursue a surgical career and now you're giving up on it to do EM, a field which is becoming really really competitive.

My only advice to you is to have an excellent story about why EM is for you and why you decided surgery isn't your thing. Your application, like mine, is going to scream ortho! ortho! ortho! and the fact that you DIDNT MATCH in ortho means that every PD under the sun is going to think that EM is your back-up rather than your "dream." That PD has 100s of kids that would love your interview spot, and all those students have wanted to do EM from day one. It's a tough game man, but you know that at somebody who didn't match ortho.

Anyway, feel free to PM me man, I feel like you and I were/are in similar boats. Good luck.
 
However, I was met with quite a bit of skeptiscism about my "commitment to EM." Almost every interviewer wanted to know how sure I was of EM, especially since my entire application screamed orthopedics. I did my best to convince them (really loved my subIs, loved taking care of patients from all walks of live with every kind of medical problem, thought EM was one of the few specialties left where you really get good at diagnosing, felt like EM was ideally poised to handle the ACA the impending changes to our healthcare system, etc etc etc).

If you have a million dollars in cash, and all you need is 100 pesos, you have to do a lot of convincing. If your app screams "ortho", that's from where they're coming. Remember how the more plain girl that "works it" is hotter than the hot chick that is a dead fish.

In the spirit of @Birdstrike, "If you can't be with the one you love/Honey, love the one you're with". Where you are is where you were meant to be. Even if you came in the back door, stride out the front door like you built the place.
 
If you have a million dollars in cash, and all you need is 100 pesos, you have to do a lot of convincing. If your app screams "ortho", that's from where they're coming. Remember how the more plain girl that "works it" is hotter than the hot chick that is a dead fish.

In the spirit of @Birdstrike, "If you can't be with the one you love/Honey, love the one you're with". Where you are is where you were meant to be. Even if you came in the back door, stride out the front door like you built the place.

I thought I could not possibly love this post more after reading the third sentence.... but then I read the second half and reach a never before reached level of "like" for a sdn comment. :bow: :clap: :claps: 👍
 
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