need good advice NOW!

[broflowski]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hi guys!

I am an IMG with the following issue. I applied to 30+ IM programs but did not get a single interview yet! It's November and I am panicking !
OK, I have to admit that I applied mainly to the more competitive programs, but my credentials are relatively good, I passed all the USMLEs at the first attempt (97/91/81) have substantial clinical (abroad) and research (=publications) experience, a letter from my US mentor... However, I did also apply to a couple of smaller community hospitals as a back up, in case no university program would give me a chance.
But as I said: NOTHING yet, not a single word/not even a straight rejection! should I be worried? should I apply to more programs? should I scream? 😕 What is the latest date interview invitations are being sent out?
I would greatly appreciate any help I can get!!
Thanks!

UPDATE: got 3 rejections today (2 university, 1 community), at least something... an I applied to 10 more community programs. THX for the help!

 

[bluealiendoctor]

Shouldn't have gone for all the big boys. 2 programs as a backup? Your majority should be 'possible' programs with a few big ones in case you get lucky. Sucks, but that's just how it is for most IMG's. Life takes many curves...getting into ANY residency is a start..no telling what could happen after residency, so get in!

 

[broflowski]

First, thanks for the fast response!
Hmmm, I applied to about 10 community hospital programs, most of them are known to be "IMG friendly", so I was hoping for at least 1-2 interviews... but got NOTHING! That is why I am so paranoid 🙂 ... I will apply to more, but I want to know if there is any chance I will get some response from the programs I already applied to... or should I write/call the PD directly to ask if they are considering my application at all?
Thanks again!

 

[nsap102]

You're right, you have some pretty good credentials. Even if you are an IMG. Well, there are many possibilities.

1. Your Application: the first place to start
- Did you send it out?
- Did ERAS complete the transaction?
- Is it complete: Are you missing transcript/MSPE/**LoR's**/PS?
- In terms of the transcript: are you missing key rotations?
- Going back to the LoR's - were they sent in? Could they contain something that could harm you?

2. Places You Applied To.
It is possible with all research you have you applied to the wrong programs i.e. programs that are NOT big on research. However, I doubt that if you applied to IMG friendly programs you did not get an interview.

Best thing to do is
1. Go through your application make sure everything is correct etc...meet all the requirements etc...
2. Call up a couple of programs and ask them if they have your application, if anything is missing, and why you are not an ideal candidate for interview.

GL

 

[dragonfly99]

Agree with above post.
I think that for most IMG's, even with pretty good scores like you have, it will be very hard to get interviews at big university programs. Remember, there are many US students applying for these same spots, and even though it's internal medicine there are a lot of US applicants with good scores on USMLE and who ranked top 1/3 of their classes and who have research publications also. Some of those applicants even attend those top university programs and/or have done rotations there.

I also don't know what an 81 board score is...usually I think of the board scores in terms of their 3-digit numbers...so hard for me to interpret those scores.

Agree you need to check and make sure all your application is complete, including the MSPE, or your medical school's equivalent document.

Also, you didn't mention whether you rotated any months at a US academic hospital(s) vs. not. I think that's a selection factor for a lot of FMG's. They want to see that you have worked/rotated in a US hospital.

It's also kind of early for internal med interview invitations...definitely some programs are still in the process of sending them out.

I think a short email to program coordinators, at least to ask whether your file is complete and politely ask whether they are still considering applicants for interview, would be fine. Just don't pester them.

Also, if in a couple more weeks you still don't have interviews, then a call by your US mentor to a few of these places might be helpful, if he/she is willing to do it.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Several factors in your post stand out as potential red flags to me:

1) you list your status as "non-student". When did you graduate from medical school? Most programs will not entertain applications from those who are far out from medical school and many prefer final year students.

2) while your Step 1 score isn't bad, you have to realize that many, many IMGs/FMGs get straight 99s on the steps. And as noted, we don't really know what the two digit score means.

3) many IMGs and FMGs apply to over 100 programs without getting a position. The fact is that it is getting more competitive with more US medical students and fewer residency spots. You may not have applied to enough programs.

4) and while your application may be decent for an IMG, at "competitive" programs, it may not be enough considering your IMG status. It sucks but you have to be BETTER than the AMG to be offered an interview. Yes, every year there is some IMG/FMG who matches into a competitive specialty at a prestigious program but the chances are it will not be *you*. This is not a personal attack just an understanding of the odds.

5) you mention clinical experience *abroad*. Frankly, US programs do not care about experience outside of the US. They want to train someone who knows how the US medical education system works. So your foreign clinical experience will not, in most cases, factor into application review.

6) who is the "US mentor"? Is this someone you did a clinical rotation with? Or a family friend/physician, etc.? If the letter is not from someone you did a medical school rotation with, then it is practically worthless. Do you have any US clinical experience and letters from that?

I wish you the best of luck but I suspect that you applied to programs that are too competitive for your application.

 

[broflowski]

Thanks again to all of you for the helpful responses!
Yes, I'm well aware of the fact that the odds of getting into a competitive program are against me 😉, but I was just curious why I did not get any answer from ANY program at all..
The downsides of my application are exactly those mentioned above
1. only research experience in the US and 2. graduation in 2003
(the three digit scores of my USMLEs 1/2/3 are 239/234/198)
Do you think an email to the programs would help? (I know my documents are fine as I got an email from some programs telling me that they have received the complete application)
Thanks again...

to comment #5 from Scapula: That is one strange thing I never quite understood about the US. I mean, although I do know the US education system differs in some ways from what I experienced elsewhere (otherwise I would not apply here), I don't know how a 2 month clinical rotation can outweigh 3 years of experience in internal medicine... but that is just my 5 cents. Can this be the main reason for my misfortune, or am I totally wrong (and paranoid)?
Of course I did not apply to any programs requiring prior US clinical experience 😉

 

[dragonfly99]

So you did an entire medicine residency in another country?
You graduated a LONG time ago. 2003 is LONG time ago. Some programs are probably just nervous about taking someone who has been out for so long. They might prefer to train someone who isn't already fully trained in another country. That may be a substantial problem for you.

Your Step 1 and 2 scores are pretty high, but the Step 3 is low...not sure how much that will hurt you, but it's not high enough to help for sure.

Can your research mentor pull strings to get you a few interviews? That might be your best chance.

 

[broflowski]

So you did an entire medicine residency in another country?
You graduated a LONG time ago. 2003 is LONG time ago. Some programs are probably just nervous about taking someone who has been out for so long.

Yes, I graduated almost 6 years ago. But I was not OUT, I was IN for the most time (IN as IN medicine). I'm 30, and I am starting to feel really, really old... 🙂

 

[John Deere Gree]

Since you need good advice now...here are my two pennies:

1 penny - Do what your gut tells you.
1 penny - don't run with scissors, you might poke your eye out

 

[Winged Scapula]

Yes, I graduated almost 6 years ago. But I was not OUT, I was IN for the most time (IN as IN medicine). I'm 30, and I am starting to feel really, really old... 🙂

Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter.

Most programs don't want to train someone over. Its easier to take a fresh medical school grad and mold them into the type of resident they want. Your years of practice in another country may be seen as making you unable to assume the role of rank and file intern/resident and to be unteachable. I've seen former attendings start residency over in the US - some are wonderfully humble and open to teaching (even when they would have formerly done it differently) and others overstep the boundaries as an intern, work too independently and are resistant to anyone telling them to approach a problem differently (they typically continue to practice as they did in their home country).

Of course, not every program sees it this way, but since a common application filter is date of medical school graduation, you clearly would be out of the running at any program that uses that factor.

No US clinical experience is typically a negative as well. And while it might seem strange that a 2 month US rotation would trump 3 years of IM in another country, the point is that you are exposed to the methods of US patient care and US faculty who can assess your ability to function in this environment. As someone who trained abroad, I can attest that the transition is not easy - medications go by different names here, as do tests, expectations for students is MUCH different (ie, they have much more responsibility in the US), and I would have never known even the basic mechanics of the daily structure without doing some rotations here.

What's your visa status?

Do you have your ECFMG certificate already?

Finally, most programs don't contact you if they aren't going to interview you. You may be in a "lets look at this later if we don't get anyone better" pile or you may have been rejected and will never be notified. You can email programs to inquire about your application but this is generally low yield.

I think your best bet is to apply to more programs and less competitive ones.

 

[Sarcoidosis]

Hi,
I know the situation you are in. Waiting... I too applied to Int. Med programs and Surg, however, I receive rej🙁 from surgery intermittently but have not received any responses from Int med. I recieved a few reject a few days after I applied but after that no responses for a few weeks from any programs at all. I was starting to wonder the same thing.

 

[skypilot]

Man, add programs. Get out your credit card and add about 30 more programs to your list! It's not too late!

 

[Blade28]

(1) Many IMGs have 99s on the Steps
(2) No USCE is a bad thing
(3) Too many years since graduation
(4) Many programs don't bother contacting you if they're not going to offer you an interview (this happened to me quite a bit)

You need to apply more widely. Best of luck.