Need help, advice.... It's been difficult.

[wendiehime]

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Hello, fellow SDNers....
well, I don't know where should I start. But any advice, help, I mean, anything would be appreciated. I really need some good advice here.

I will go from my stats.... just like everyone else.

I'm an international student, and I know this would make things very, very tough but I haven't given up yet.
I just graduated from a liberal arts school with pre-med/chemistry.

[Now I think that I should have changed my major to something "more practical" (well, I mean, jobwise. lol) but as I do not have any type of regret going to the school, graduating with that major, (ironically.) I need to move on and work harder. sorry, end of the rant. lol]

My cGPA is 3.7, and sGPA is 3.5. Maybe a little lower than average who gets in, especially being an international applicant.
And here's the real problem comes....

my MCAT score: 25R.
I scored better in FLs. I even got 37 and 38s(well, doesn't matter anyway).
I did have a bad day, but excuse is useless now. lol
To be honest, I was quite surprised when I got the score.... oh well whatever.

My ECs are okay(?), definitely not stellar I guess....

Volunteers
* Local Korean church: 3+ years, children's church, choir, pianist
* Hospital: 20 hrs in Korea(during the summers, of course) and more to come- just got a position in a local hospital
* Tutoring: +5 years, taught middle school - college students(bio, chem, math, etc... even English!!!!!) and I also did 2 years of mentoring for the Pre-medical association. I mentored freshmen biology.

Clinical
* Student Internship in a hospital system (40 hours): it was part of our school's curriculum, so I did shadowings in like 4-5 different specialities and helped out a bit. I know this is just bare minimum(or not even), and I'm planning on adding more hours until I apply in next cycle.

Other ECs (or whatever they classify...)
* Mexico Mission trip: wasn't medical, but it helped me to be determined to be a physician(I want to go into medical missions). Spanish was definitely a plus. lol
* I am a multilingual (4 languages- Korean, Japanese, Spanish, and obviously English)
* Taught in high school as a English teacher
* Worked as a biology lab tech at the undergraduate institution: I did bunch of prep for the freshmen biology courses, microbiology, and genetics. I graded papers for freshmen biology too.
* Spirit leader(! yeah right.) for my literary society... ya know, these greek letter society.... for a year
(and I was elected as a senior rep for my Pre-med association, but something happened and I had to withdrew from the position. So I guess it doesn't count. lol)
I probably have more, but I can't remember on top of my head now.

sadly, no research, no pubs. I'd like to have a chance in research but it seems difficult not being a student now.

I've got good LORs. One is a committee letter from my school, one is from my chemistry professor, one's from the department chairman for natural science(he's science/philosophy professor) and one's from my work supervisor(she's also biology faculty) in biology lab.

Anyhow, after I got my MCAT score, I decided to withdraw my applications. (well, never submitted it anyway, so that saves some money here. lol) I'm looking to apply next cycle, and meanwhile I will have a year gap... which has been a bit difficult for me because I can't get a job from anywhere else but science/medical. I don't know any internationals visit here a lot but I'm on a thing called OPT(Optional Practical Training). I'm currently doing some volunteer tutoring to keep the visa status up to date as searching for a job. lol

So... as far as my next step concerned, here are some options....
(I will take another MCAT and hoping to pull 30+/ and definitely will do more clinical volunteer, experiences, etc...)

1) go and do some post-bac to raise that GPA.
2) Do a non-thesis master.
3) go ahead and apply, even if its super late. (no maybe not.)
4) .....go home, take a break for now. (...?!)

I know it's lame and weird that I talk about all these stuff here where someone might know me, and that scares me a bit. But I've been very discouraged and ran out of things to do, staying at my friend's family's house jobless. I know as a Christian that God has plans for *even* me, but it is really draining everything out of me.

Sorry for the long post, and thank you guys in advance.
Good luck guys. 😀

 

[Catalystik]

You are very weak in clinical experience, and you have no research. Finding a job in either area would help improve your application, but I fear probably not enough by summer 2011 to give sufficient strength to your application. I'd suggest you change your timeline to a summer 2012 application at the earliest.

But your teaching is very strong. You have some shadowing. You have an artistic endeavor of your music to mention. You could use a leadership activity. And while helping at your church is an altruistic activity, I think it would be nice to see some weekly community service that aids those with poor economic resources.

You are right that things will be tough for you as an international applicant. Good luck with the MCAT retake. I think that considering some postbac upper-level science to raise your BCPM is a good idea. A traditional hard-science masters might be a reasonable idea as another avenue to a solid research experience. Applying for a greencard would be helpful, as a permanent resident is considered equally to a US citizen in the application process.

 

[wendiehime]

Catalystik, thank you for your advice. That does help a lot to see where I stand.

Yes, I do recognize that my clinical experiences are not sufficient...
But by the summer of 2011, I'm planning on getting at least 200+ hours in.

Is it absolutely impossible for me to get in with the additional hours that I will get (and with an improved MCAT score)? and... do I have a shot in DO schools at all? I mean, being an international is tough and I know I can only apply to certain schools(and those schools are usually top-tiers...sigh), which will decrease my chance significantly.

I don't mind waiting extra year, but the problem is money. I'd love to do Post-bac or masters if I had extra money to spend but I'm barely paying off my student loans and stuff... (Maybe it's throwing me off that my family is counting on me a lot. Like, a lot.)

I'm thinking of doing science masters now, as they are most likely to be funded (I heard that internationals don't usually get funded...but worth trying right?). I'm not sure how everything would turn out but like you said having research experience would definitely help.

Again, thank you very much for your thoughtful advice. I think I have some kind of direction at least. 🙂

 

[Catalystik]

It isn't just the total hours of clinical experience adcomms look at. They also want to see evidence from your activities that you've considered medicine over a prolonged period of time and tested it as a career through various experiences. The average applicant has about 1.5 years of clinical experience and a total of 150 hours acquired at 2-4 hours per week. No, it is not impossible to get in with less, but I tend to discourage application with less than a year's worth so as to have your application appeal to the broadest number of schools.

DO schools have similar expectations for clinical experience, but are less likely to feel that research is very important. A number of them would want a letter of recommendation from a DO physician that you've shadowed, so strategize to acquire that.

A science masters is most likely to be funded and require research if it's the 2-year type, but I am unaware of the likelihood of internationals getting or not getting this type of backing.

 

[wendiehime]

You are right. Yes, medicine came to my mind later than other people did.... so that's why I didn't have much hours in for that type of experiences.
I see that schools might think that I don't have the dedication for it, especially with the clinical experiences that I have/or will have for the short time period.

Also, I've been looking into science masters, and seems like they get funding through TA-ship or from a company where the people work. Like you said, for internationals it would be difficult to get a company support, maybe TA is more attainable, I guess.

I've been browsing through the forum and some people wrote about getting a hard science masters (or any type of masters, whatsoever) - but they also said that AdComs won't like it as much as having a post-bac to enhance their undergraduate GPA as Master's program is focused on research, and they are usually easy As(I mean, maybe not easy, but not as intense).

And.... is research absolutely necessary? If I get into a master's or post-bacc I would have some more opportunities to get my hands on, but if I decide not to, then I would assume that it would be difficult for me to get into any labs to do research. I need to clarify: it's not that I don't have absolutely no experience whatsoever; it's just not that significant for me to even consider including it. Is there any way to do some kind of research while not in school?

Again, thank you so much for your input.... and sorry for bugging you so long. But this means a lot for me as I was totally clueless. I truly appreciate it.

 

[Catalystik]

1) Also, I've been looking into science masters, and seems like they get funding through TA-ship or from a company where the people work. Like you said, for internationals it would be difficult to get a company support, maybe TA is more attainable, I guess.

2) I've been browsing through the forum and some people wrote about getting a hard science masters (or any type of masters, whatsoever) - but they also said that AdComs won't like it as much as having a post-bac to enhance their undergraduate GPA as Master's program is focused on research, and they are usually easy As(I mean, maybe not easy, but not as intense).

3) And.... is research absolutely necessary? If I get into a master's or post-bacc I would have some more opportunities to get my hands on, but if I decide not to, then I would assume that it would be difficult for me to get into any labs to do research.

Is there any way to do some kind of research while not in school?

1) Teaching is also valuable to an application, but you already have plenty of that.

2) Yes, I agree with this. But your BCPM GPA/sGPA doesn't need much improvement. And any science classes you take during a masters that is not required for the masters degree would/could be included in the undergrad GPA. The masters itself would be considered similar to a very nice EC. It's more of an advantage when it comes time to apply for residency programs after med school.

3) Only 60% of applicants to MD schools list research, so it's not essential. Maybe it's more important for an international though, to help them stand out. I don't know the statistic for DO schools.

If one is not a student, one might volunteer to work in a lab. But if you are taking postbac classes, even if not a degree candidate, you will have contacts within the science department and will find it easier to take a class, volunteer, or even find a job in a research lab.

 

[wendiehime]

Thank you for giving really nice advices and direction... 😀
I don't know if I can thank you enough for this....

I was sort of clueless as I was aimlessly studying for MCAT. I've been reading more in the forum and masters or some kind of informal post-bac(not being in a specific program but taking classes) while gaining experiences in clinics would be the best bet for me, since volunteer work does count for the visa requirement.

lol. Like you said, I think getting a research as a student in some institution(my college was rather small...) would be a nice shot to get an opportunity and also I personally want to go back to school as soon as possible before my brain gets too "stiff".

Thank you so much for the guidance.... I think I'm finally getting out of the despair now. 😀

 

[Catalystik]

We are happy to help.

 

[dragonfly99]

The bottom line is the MCAT score needs to come up.
DO schools might be a good option, but it depends on where you want to practice, and what specialty.
I think the GPA is OK, would not overly fixate on that, at least until you pull up your MCAT. That is more important.
You need more medical volunteer hours in a hospital or clinic.

 

[wendiehime]

That MCAT score(hopefully) will go up. I mean, that score wasn't anything close to the things that I've been getting on my FLs... Definitely my fault on not keeping my physical condition up. lol
That clinical hours that I don't have will come back and haunt me. 😀 And for DO schools (and other options, too) , I do need to do some research. I do like their philosophy of focusing on holistic medicine, but I just don't know much about other fields of medicine than MD.

Thank you for your input. Also it's good to know that my GPAs are in Okay range. 🙂 I appreciate you all's help very much!!