Need Help, How will my past affect me?

[Frijolero]

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I smell some pot users out there!
While the OP's situation is unfortunate, our laws and regulations are in place for a reason. With the sheer numbers that go through our legal system, it would be nice to evaluate each case individually, and say, well he's a nice guy, not like those other felons, so we'll give him a break, but in reality that isn't possible. The line must be drawn somewhere. If you don't like it, do something about it, don't just whine.
Jenny makes a good point, if you don't want to end up in OP's shoes, don't do drugs. She's not being judgemental, just giving mature advice.
I like pot too, but I would never, ever, do it now, because an evening of enjoyment is not worth risking my career. I think the same priniciple applies to lots of risk taking behaviors. Actions have consequences, and some of the REALLY suck, but as doctors, we're supposed to be able to make sound decisions that affect the lives of others, we should be able to do the same thing for ourselves.

Yeah, the line must be drawn somewhere, and the fact that support for decriminalization hasn't been higher in 30 years tells me that that it should be drawn on the legal side. To me, making "sound decisions" means making choices I believe are ethical and just. Extend your logic of "sure, it's not bad, but since it's illegal those who chose to do it are bad decision-makers and deserve what they get". Are you proposing that doctors one hundred years ago should have refused to treat black patients because of the high risk to their careers? If you truly believe that pot-smoking should be illegal, then you can condemn away. But, if you don't, then you had better lay off, even help those who are unjustly punished. Additionally, many of us are doing something about it and "not just whining" and I don't know why you would assume otherwise.


-Frijolero (who isn't a pot smoker)

 

[ph_wudoc]

I really don't see how choosing to smoke pot, and choosing not to treat black patients are the same thing. Smoking pot is a personal decision that ceratinly does not affect the well-being of your patients. Do not villianize me simply because you don't agree with me, that's bad debate form, and makes you look silly.

I don't see any reason why a future physician cannot exercise enough self-restraint to not smoke pot until a day in the future when it becomes legal. And I never said anything about plea bargaining, or appeals, I was just adding some facts to a discussion that seemed to have few.

To those who are fighting for your beliefs, good for you! All I'm trying to say is that if a person makes a choice just to sit back and smoke pot anyway, the consequences are known, and very real. I don't see why anyone who knowingly breaks a law is being "unjustly punished" if they are caught. It's unfortunate, but in the eyes of the law, a "criminal", has lost a certain amount of credibility. In order to institute real change it is imperative that the cause have credibility!

PS- I don't have ANYTHING against pot smokers, because it is a choice that affects only them most of the time. My problem is with people who don't want to deal with the consequences of their actions.

 

[phoenixsupra]

Yeah, the line must be drawn somewhere, and the fact that support for decriminalization hasn't been higher in 30 years tells me that that it should be drawn on the legal side. To me, making "sound decisions" means making choices I believe are ethical and just. Extend your logic of "sure, it's not bad, but since it's illegal those who chose to do it are bad decision-makers and deserve what they get". Are you proposing that doctors one hundred years ago should have refused to treat black patients because of the high risk to their careers? If you truly believe that pot-smoking should be illegal, then you can condemn away. But, if you don't, then you had better lay off, even help those who are unjustly punished. Additionally, many of us are doing something about it and "not just whining" and I don't know why you would assume otherwise.


-Frijolero (who isn't a pot smoker)

Excelent point Frijolero 🙂

 

[phoenixsupra]

I really don't see how choosing to smoke pot, and choosing not to treat black patients are the same thing. Smoking pot is a personal decision that ceratinly does not affect the well-being of your patients. Do not villianize me simply because you don't agree with me, that's bad debate form, and makes you look silly.
I don't see any reason why a future physician cannot exercise enough self-restraint to not smoke pot until a day in the future when it becomes legal.
To those who are fighting for your beliefs, good for you! All I'm trying to say is that if a person makes a choice just to sit back and smoke pot anyway, the consequences are known, and very real.

Ok ph. Let me clear it up for you. By your reasoning what Rosa Parks did was unforgivable. I know the issues aren't similar. The point is that the hardline you draw leads to many absurdities. If you talk to any lawer or law student you'll learn that this issue is way more complex than you think. 😉

BTW you sound a lot like Jenny. That's not you again under an alias Jenny, is it? Ha ha

 

[ph_wudoc]

Ok ph. Let me clear it up for you. By your reasoning what Rosa Park's did was unforgivable. I know the issues aren't similar. The point is that the hardline you draw leads to many absurdities. If you talk to any lawer or law student you'll learn that this issue is way more complex than you think. 😉

Ok, let me clear something up... It's funny how I have managed to totally disrepresent myself here. I'm like the biggest flaming liberal you'll ever meet, but I just like to debate along terms of logic not emotion. I'm just making a logical argument here (you could call it playing devil's advocate). So before you decide you hate me and think I'm an evil troll, step back, take the emotion out of it. In two sentances, this is my point.

I am NOT saying that civil disobedience is wrong, when it benefits the greater good.
But smoking pot does not benefit the greater good!

 

[Frijolero]

I think phoenix got it, but I want to clarify some things. Number one, I didn't villanize you at all. Not reading posts and putting words in people's mouths is bad debate form, making salient points isn't. The fact that you failed to understand the analogy I made and can't see what your logic leads to is not my fault. Just to clarify again, the law is not always just, and people who break an unjust law and deal with those consequences are unjustly punished. Clear now?

-Frijolero

Edit: The right to exercise personal freedom (ie. smoke pot) DOES benefit the greater good. It seems odd to me that you say you are arguing out of logic but can't follow your own.

 

[ph_wudoc]

I think phoenix got it, but I want to clarify some things. Number one, I didn't villanize you at all. Not reading posts and putting words in people's mouths is bad debate form, making salient points isn't. The fact that you failed to understand the analogy I made and can't see what your logic leads to is not my fault. Just to clarify again, the law is not always just, and people who break an unjust law and deal with those consequences are unjustly punished. Clear now?

-Frijolero

No, I don't get it, sorry. I just don't see how the wonderful things that people like Rosa Parks have done is equal to smoking pot,
but I am happy that not everyone in this world thinks like me, because I need someone to argue with when I'm procrastinating studying for anatomy.

 

[ph_wudoc]

I can see ya'll are not in the mood for a friendly debate, so I will bow out gracefully now, and get back to the flexor digitorum superficialis.
Have fun grilling someone else over that coals... and good luck to the OP, I'm sure you're a good person, I know there are far bigger jerks in my class, that I would be happy to replace a pot smoker with.

 

[phoenixsupra]

Ok, let me clear something up... It's funny how I have managed to totally disrepresent myself here. I'm like the biggest flaming liberal you'll ever meet, but I just like to debate along terms of logic not emotion. I'm just making a logical argument here (you could call it playing devil's advocate). So before you decide you hate me and think I'm an evil troll, step back, take the emotion out of it. In two sentances, this is my point.

I am NOT saying that civil disobedience is wrong, when it benefits the greater good.
But smoking pot does not benefit the greater good!

I don't hate you. You can relax about that. This isn't a debate about legalizing pot. I don't use it. I don't even like it. The OP isn't even a pot smoker anymore. If you read back you'll see I back Jenny in warning people against using drugs. I just want to help him put it behind him and get on with his life. I'd rather not get into an ethical debate with you "just for fun". The OP has already had these possible obsticals pointed out to him. Let's try to be constructive. 😉

 

[Frijolero]

Wow, you really need some thicker skin. I'm sorry your feelings are hurt, but nobody here has personally attacked you. We're not saying that pot smokers are world-changers like Rosa Parks. We are saying that Rosa Parks and pot smokers both broke unjust laws, and neither of them deserve punishment for their actions. Got it?

-Frijolero (who has a weird urge to listen to Outkast now.)

 

[phoenixsupra]

I can see ya'll are not in the mood for a friendly debate, so I will bow out gracefully now, and get back to the flexor digitorum superficialis.
Have fun grilling someone else over that coals... and good luck to the OP, I'm sure you're a good person, I know there are far bigger jerks in my class, that I would be happy to replace a pot smoker with.

Nice double post. 😀 How about waiting longer than two minutes for a reply before you run off. Glad to hear you support the OP getting in to medschool after all. 🙂 I'll gladly debate with you about pot it you start a thread about legalizing it. Wait... I can't debate with you about that cuz we're in aggreement about it 😀 ....except you actually like the stuff and I don't. No hard feelings. It's been fun chatting with you. 🙂 Good luck with your studies.

-Frijolero (who has a weird urge to listen to Outkast now.)

Ha ha, that's really funny. That songs been in my head for the last few minutes too.

 

[HiddenTruth]

See, you could've said that his chances are minimal, but you also had to preach about the "evils of drug use." You are an inflexible, judgemental person which are not the greatest skills for a doc. Also, you prolly were the person that every other premed loathed for being a stuffy know-it-all/condescending snob

well said, i second that--get a life, and grow up--maybe you don't know about any mishaps or mistakes that can happen. This guy out here is truly asking for some advice, and you sit here and criticize him--don't come back asking any advice when you've made a mistake and need some help sorting out things---it's people like you who are arrogant and don't deserve to be a doctor--give your patient the "don't do drugs" lesson when half of them are on crack--i can only imagine your judgemental personality on your patients--start reading some books on how to care for people and become a compassionalte, altruistic person--cuz obviously the class they teach MS1's didn't work too well. Good luck with your future profession.

As to the OP: I agree with some of the posters of talking to lawyers. I don't think this should hinder your ability to become a good physician---we all make mistakes, it's how you handle them and learn from them is KEY--and you seemed to have learned well--good luck bro-

 

[OrthoFixation]

The prior information posted was not a accurate given your question. I did find the application form 224, Registration for Controlled Substances Application. See the link (a pdf form):

Form 224

Note question 4(b) on page 3. This is the only question dealing with past convictions. It reads "Have the applicant ever been convicted of a crime in connection with controlled substances under state or federal law?"

If you can accurately answer 'No' to this question, your in the clear. An attorney could strictly interpret this question and your necessary response based on your history. Rule #1, never of law and legal dealings, only provide the requested information and nothing more.

Don't take free legal advice from uninformed people. It is worth exactly what you paid for it . . . zippo. I would guess a prudent attorney would define "convicted of a crime" and "controlled substance" for starters. Your possession of mary may not even qualify. If it does, you can still get past it. Just read the legal procedings, revocations, and reinstatements against docs on the DEA website. It is a real eye opener. Don't give up on your dreams without a battle. Good luck 👍

 

[Lebesgue]

I think you would not be accepted. There are plenty of applicants out there who decided to stay on the right side of the law, whatever your feelings on legalization are. It doesn't matter if anyone thinks it should be legal, the fact is it's not. Given a stack of applicants that had the same scores, abilities, motivation as you, but didn't have a record, I believe an admissions committee would probably can your application before the others.

It's all about accountability. There are consequences to the decisions you make, so choose wisely. This fortunately applies to everyone. If you want something bad enough, you should be disciplined enough to play by the rules that everyone else does, and if you take a chance and get caught, you should be willing to accept the consequences. It's really about maturity and responsibility and not whether something should be legal or not.

 

[Dr. Rosenrose]

If it makes you feel any better I once read about a med student who did time for coke when he was young. He still got in. It most likely will come down to your age and how it changed your life. It is good advice to contact lawyer. Don't let the A holes on this site give you that -the world needs ditch diggers too- bit. Most of the high and mighty future docs on this site have smoked more than their share and still do.

 

[JennyW]

Relax a bit. The law is more than a set of books. Sure, these are "grounds" for denial. But consideration is given to each case. And exceptions are made. Re-read paws post. BTW you won't find mention of plea-bargaining in any legislation but if you think it's not part of "the law" then you're dreaming. And no one cares what jen's profession is. It just doesn't say anything positive about her that she didn't set the record straight even after poeple were referring to her as a seasoned physician. Highly ironic, hardline moralizing and shameless dishonesty in the same post.

Again...

I never made a single judgement about the original poster at all. I just pointed out that his hardship should be a lesson to the rest of us out here. I also pointed out a simple way to avoid that hardship. That's it.

I also never once stated I was a physician. No one else refered to me as a physician neither. Most people ASSumed that I was a med student, or a wanna-be med student.

While no one referred to me as a physician, and despite the fact that I made not one single judgement of the original poster, I was "judged" to be a person who is/does/has....

---live extremely sheltered lives and were raised to belive that if you ever make a mistake you should end up serving up burgers at McDonalds

---uncool, not to mention insipid

---judgemental and closed minded, need to do some growing up (This one was my personal favorite, since I probably started practicing when most of you were still earning your merit badges in boy/girl scouts.)

---arrogant and don't deserve to be a doctor, judgemental personality



It doesn't matter if I'm an optometrist, or a physician.

The fact remains that I have a state license, I have a DEA number, I am a member of a large number of managed care plans, and I have admitting priveleges to my local hospital. This is EXACTLY the same thing that you are ALL going to want to be doing someday. And having a drug record is NOT going to make your life easier. You should think about that the next time you decide to "spark up that blunt."

Jenny

 

[HiddenTruth]

Sure. I'll give him some advice. Forget about going to medical school.

Sure, you might get in and you might even graduate. But if you have plead guilty to a felony drug offence, good luck getting a DEA number. Good luck being enrolled in any managed care panels.

There's the lesson of your "after school special" for you right there.

Jenny

Hello DOCTOR Jenny,
First of all let me make it CLEAR for you DOCTOR that whether you are a doctor, or an optometrist, it is irrelevant on your JUDGEMENTAL personality.
Let's see, in the above post you carefully depicted out your medically associated degree and it's privilidges, you carefully managed to explain to us why you aren't judgemental, and the fact that you have been "practicing" optometry or medicine (that is what i could ifner from your post) for god knows how long, it makes you much more "MATURE" and a "GROWN-UP". Well the fact of the matter is that in the above post, a single one of the few taht you have written clearly contradicts your personal views of yourself. Again, this person out here is NOT looking for criticism by you and alikes. He came here asking for ADVICE of his current situation, exactly what many other posters have give him However, you were very quick and blunt to say "forget about going to med school....good luck with the DEA license", etc. Granted, you may have more expereince on the DEA side, and you can offer that advice--however, i don't think you are a lawyer, ot it is otherwise unknown from your past posts, and you DO NOT have a clear background on what it takes and what the OP can do possibly to get around his problem because you clearly have failed to mention it, and rather have shot the gun to say "FORGET ABOUT GOING TO MED SCHOOL". I think that is being quite judgemental and you have failed to mentioned any alternatives, thus making you an arrogant, and judgemental person. Thank you, and please don't make such comments with your patients. I think it can be hazardous to your on-going career.

 

[Frijolero]

snip

---judgemental and closed minded, need to do some growing up (This one was my personal favorite, since I probably started practicing when most of you were still earning your merit badges in boy/girl scouts.)


Jenny

Um, who said we're not still earning merit badges? Dude, yesterday I got my totin chip card AND a bugling merit badge. So deal with that. With regards to Lebesgue counseling the OP to not even apply, I disagree. The key point being that you were not convicted of anything, and though I can't remember exactly what the AMCAS asks for, I think it asks for felony convictions. I also think the prior advice about contacting the DEA directly and asking them about your chances is good. Call them up, call your lawyer, and if you have a decent shot at a DEA number; apply to some schools. I'd even throw in some Caribbean schools just in case. Ideal? Of course not. But if you're serious about becoming a doc it may be your best shot.

-Frijolero

 

[phoenixsupra]

Jenny, I agree with you about warning people against drugs. I hope you have learned from this thread that the OP's future prospects are not as bleak as you once thought. That's fine. Learning is good. I think it was your telling the op to "forget about medschool" that bothered people. You obviously have been upset by the flaming you recieved. You'll be able to avoid that situation in the future by being more helpful and encouraging to someone who is trying to put their past behind them. And regardless of your intentions, (I'll give you the benifit of the doubt on the "practicing for 11 years" statement) you probably will be more carefull about that too. So really Jenny, just learn from this. We all put our foot in our mouth sometimes. No one's going to hold it against you. I certainly won't. Take it easy Jenny. Good luck. 🙂

 

[azzarah]

If I were you, I would apply, but be completely honest about what happened and how you feel right now. Given your circumstances, i think you are completely at their mercy and your best chance would be to convince them that you have turned your life around (if that is in fact true). Just my two cents. Good luck.

 

[roja]

phoenix I think it had more to due with her superiority complex, inflexible and hyperjudgemental attitude.

And jenny, you have NO idea how old people are here. Not everyone goes to med school straight out of college.

I hope you don't trip with your nose so far in the air.

 

[Tristero]

Again...

I never made a single judgement about the original poster at all. I just pointed out that his hardship should be a lesson to the rest of us out here. I also pointed out a simple way to avoid that hardship. That's it.

I also never once stated I was a physician. No one else refered to me as a physician neither. Most people ASSumed that I was a med student, or a wanna-be med student.

While no one referred to me as a physician, and despite the fact that I made not one single judgement of the original poster, I was "judged" to be a person who is/does/has....

---live extremely sheltered lives and were raised to belive that if you ever make a mistake you should end up serving up burgers at McDonalds

---uncool, not to mention insipid

---judgemental and closed minded, need to do some growing up (This one was my personal favorite, since I probably started practicing when most of you were still earning your merit badges in boy/girl scouts.)

---arrogant and don't deserve to be a doctor, judgemental personality



It doesn't matter if I'm an optometrist, or a physician.

The fact remains that I have a state license, I have a DEA number, I am a member of a large number of managed care plans, and I have admitting priveleges to my local hospital. This is EXACTLY the same thing that you are ALL going to want to be doing someday. And having a drug record is NOT going to make your life easier. You should think about that the next time you decide to "spark up that blunt."

Jenny

Admitting priveleges? You mean privileges?

God, can you give me the name of your hospital, so I can make sure to never go there?

To the OP: Don't worry about the DEA and licensure board quite yet. Focus on getting into medical school for now.

The DEA and licensure board face doctors who are addicted to morphine and much worse controlled substances. While you have very serious charges against you, I'm sure it's nothing they haven't seen (from what I have heard by word of mouth). Don't listen to the people on this board, they are wrong. The law is flexible. Consult a competent attorney. You get what you pay for (in this case, a clueless optometrist). Good luck, and remember although you can't change the past, you can always change the future.

 

[JennyW]

Admitting priveleges? You mean privileges?

God, can you give me the name of your hospital, so I can make sure to never go there?

To the OP: Don't worry about the DEA and licensure board quite yet. Focus on getting into medical school for now.

The DEA and licensure board face doctors who are addicted to morphine and much worse controlled substances. While you have very serious charges against you, I'm sure it's nothing they haven't seen (from what I have heard by word of mouth). Don't listen to the people on this board, they are wrong. The law is flexible. Consult a competent attorney. You get what you pay for (in this case, a clueless optometrist). Good luck, and remember although you can't change the past, you can always change the future.

Ahhhhh, yes. The "typo flame." Definately the limpest of all the flames out there.

Your advice to just go to medical school and "don't worry about the DEA and licensure boards just yet" is crazy. He should worry about the DEA and licensure boards NOW. What's the point of all the work of getting through medical school if you won't be able to get a license at the end of it?

Jenny

 

[phoenixsupra]

Your advice to just go to medical school and "don't worry about the DEA and licensure boards just yet" is crazy. He should worry about the DEA and licensure boards NOW. What's the point of all the work of getting through medical school if you won't be able to get a license at the end of it?

Jenny

No, there wouldn't be much point in that. Fortunately that's not the case 😀 . Jenny, you're sort of flogging a dead horse here. Goes to show there's no fool like an old fool.

BTW I ain't no spring chicken myself either but if I ever develope a tude like Jenny's somebody please shoot me. 😱

phoenix I think it had more to due with her superiority complex, inflexible and hyperjudgemental attitude.

And jenny, you have NO idea how old people are here. Not everyone goes to med school straight out of college.

I hope you don't trip with your nose so far in the air.

Very true....and hilarious. Just trying to give the old girl some room to wise up. 😉 I guess it was a lost cause.

 

[dxw]

This is the first time I've ever visited the Allopathic forum because I was just accepted into my top choice for the entering class of 2005 so I'm feeling confident enough to peruse these threads. I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire here but I do feel that JennyW misrepresented herself. Personally, I presumed JennyW was a doctor because she mentioned how long she has been practicing in her post, her post is in an Allopathic forum, and she maintained this lie of omission by her failure to correct this incorrect assumption in subsequent posts.
To contribute to the OP's concerns, I do think he should seek the advice of a good lawyer. I think it is more helpful for us to be encouraging and positive as we've all probably benefited from a few lucky and understanding decisions by others in our lives.

 

[TripleDegree]

I never said I was a physician. And I'm not being self righteous. I'm leveling with you.



Jenny

Talk about misleading..... the "I've been practicing for 11 years" statement was deliberately vague to make us believe that you were a phyisican, in my opinion.

I vote we close this thread.

 

[roja]

I concur

 

[sirvandy]

I was at a party and smoked some weed (which I almost never do; last time was years ago). Someone surprised me and took a digital cam shot of me doing it. Now I'm terrified that the picture could wind up being emailed to some dean or something and I could be expelled. Am I being paranoid, or is this something I should worry about? Maybe I could just claim it was tobacco, but then I'm sure there were people there who could smell it as weed. Should I do anything as damage control? I'm freaking out here.

 

[nubbey24]

Just noticed that this thread is old...not worth the long winded post I recently put up.

 

[cfdavid]

I was at a party and smoked some weed (which I almost never do; last time was years ago). Someone surprised me and took a digital cam shot of me doing it. Now I'm terrified that the picture could wind up being emailed to some dean or something and I could be expelled. Am I being paranoid, or is this something I should worry about? Maybe I could just claim it was tobacco, but then I'm sure there were people there who could smell it as weed. Should I do anything as damage control? I'm freaking out here.

unless that person really lacks a life (or hates your guts...), i wouldn't worry about it too much. just let it go. but, don't stress about this issue. life's too short.

 

[jonathon]

I'm all for giving a person a second chance. It only takes a split second to make a mistake that can lead to trouble with the law. As long as this is the only thing on your record, you should be ok.

It looks like in Wisconsin you should still be able practice medicine.

Here is a website: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/rsb/code/hfs/hfs012_app_a.pdf

 

[gerido]

damn revived old thread

 

[Bertelman]

i wouldn't worry about it too much.

Says Bill Clinton. Hahaha.

 

[cfdavid]

Says Bill Clinton. Hahaha.

i didn't even realize that...

 

[Ross434]

i didn't even realize that...

yeah that's one of the funniest posts i've read in a while

 

[cfdavid]

yeah that's one of the funniest posts i've read in a while

The funny thing is that I was going to tell the "new OP" that at least he admitted to inhaling! lol

I sometimes forget about my avatar......