Need Input on Research Options

[Quicky]

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If you were in my situation, which at this point is trying to gain research experience for the sake of my application, would you research a little and work a lot or research a lot and work a little? 🙂

 

[majahops]

Getting published isn't worth much to anyone who is considering your application, ASSUMING that person knows how the system works:

Half the time, the research assistants who did 75% of the work that went into the paper don't get recorded as authors.

The other half of the time, the research assistant who does very little work on the paper, but who the PI feels like helping out, gets recorded as an author.

And there is ALWAYS the loosely associated MD or PhD who wouldn't know what the paper was about if you ask them, who gets recorded as an author. These guys will show up for one or two of the MAJOR meetings between the research collaborators, but really will give no more than 30 minutes of good hard thought or effort to the ENTIRE project.

It's really just a political ****-show, in my opinion.

 

[pathophys17]

A little more information. Under the 30-40 hour/week summer research opportunity, I would design and perform experiments, collect the results, graph the data, and analyze it statistically under the supervision of a MD and a postdoc. The MD believes that the research will eventually be published and I will have coauthorship, but there is no chance for it to be published by the time of application. Is this experience going to be worth the significant time investment especially seeing as how I likely won't have a publication to show for it by the time of interviews? Thanks!

I wouldn't worry about the publication for now...what's much more important is what you get from the research and being able to discuss it in-depth and with passion at interviews. The 30-40hr one would likely afford you a greater opportunity to get involved. This sounds much like what I did last summer with an MD (whom I acually ended up forming a great mentor/mentee relationship with and spend time with at the hospital) and a PhD...you really get to be involved, performing the experiments yourself and analyzing the data yourself. I ended up with a publication (but really actually did most of the work), poster and a few conference presentations....even if you wouldn't have these opportunities by application time, they can be important in teh future, especially if you want to continue in research. You don't want to seem only in it for resume paddign and pubs; you're really there to learn about research as a process and a potential field.

But if it's really important to you that you be able to fit in EMT work (and the fact that they're both unpaid), then go with the 6-10 hour one. You likely won't be able to get as much accomplished in terms of a whole project, but it would give you an idea about research and still counts as research if you're really just trying to get a last-minute experience. But perhaps you'd be able to continue it through teh year? Also if you really don't think you'll enjoy research enough to pursue it in teh future, 30-40 hr/wk is a significant investment, and you may not be able to get in enough time with your mentor to get a decent LOR. So really it's up to you. Also go with what topic interests you more.

 

[majahops]

There is a false impression given out there that adcoms are looking for quantity over quality, meaning that they care MORE that you "stayed with" a project over a long amount of time than they do about the actual quality/type of project you worked on. The funny part is that the adcoms/advisors themselves are the ones spreading this notion, much of the time. Perhaps they don't realize what they truly like when they see an application, and only preach what seems at first glance most technically sound or indicative of dedication.

In reality, I think they'd much rather see someone who volunteered for dying cancer patients for 4 months, volunteered at an HIV clinic for 4 months and volunteered at a homeless healthcare clinic for 4 months, than someone who volunteered at only one of these for 12 months.

I think the same goes for research. Just do something that matters and that shows people that you're interested in medicine and the spirit of service that becoming an excellent physician requires (arguably).

So do you think it's worth the time investment to have real research experience? Obviously adcoms consider the quality of the work you do when you research so I'm figuring the 6-10 hour lab tech type gig won't get me very far while the 30-40 hour work will be worth it. I'm hoping that with high GPA/mcat, a couple hundred clinical hours, and one of these two research opportunities I'll be competetive at top 10 schools.

 

[pathophys17]

Getting published isn't worth much to anyone who is considering your application, ASSUMING that person knows how the system works:

Half the time, the research assistants who did 75% of the work that went into the paper don't get recorded as authors.

The other half of the time, the research assistant who does very little work on the paper, but who the PI feels like helping out, gets recorded as an author.

And there is ALWAYS the loosely associated MD or PhD who wouldn't know what the paper was about if you ask them, who gets recorded as an author. These guys will show up for one or two of the MAJOR meetings between the research collaborators, but really will give no more than 30 minutes of good hard thought or effort to the ENTIRE project.

It's really just a political ****-show, in my opinion.

I'm assuming that implicit in this statement is the fact that no one considers it until you get to the interview stage...They'll know here (and even if you BS your way through, they'll know from the LOR you should've gotten from your PI that it was BS) if you were very involved or not and how much of the work you did.

And if the MD or PhD is listed as first author, they were clearly very involved. But if it is some MD or PhD who was only peripherally involved and attended the meetings, as majahops said, and you didn't really work closely with them, then it doesn't mean as much.

There is a lot of politics in medicine, unfortunately....

 

[pathophys17]

I think the same goes for research. Just do something that matters and that shows people that you're interested in medicine and the spirit of service that becoming an excellent physician requires (arguably).

Yeah. And if you don't see yourself doing research at all in the future, I'd go with the 6-10 hr one. Bottom line of my first post if you don't feel like reading through the whole thing, I suppose.

 

[majahops]

You've got yourself a nice little profile going there. Keep up the good work, man!

Gotta bring that MCAT up from a 1/1/1 though. They will want to see at least 2's on each section, even with all your EC's. Hehe. Just playing, obviously. 🙂

Yeah. And if you don't see yourself doing research at all in the future, I'd go with the 6-10 hr one. Bottom line of my first post if you don't feel like reading through the whole thing, I suppose.

 

[pathophys17]

You've got yourself a nice little profile going there. Keep up the good work, man!

Gotta bring that MCAT up from a 1/1/1 though. They will want to see at least 2's on each section, even with all your EC's. Hehe. Just playing, obviously. 🙂

Thank you. Although I'm a girl🙂. I'm hoping it'll all be considered good to the adcoms this year.

Whaaattt?? 2's?! I better take the studying up a notch....

Any suggestions on schools while we're discussing my profile? You obviously had a successful app cycle...congrats on those acceptances!

 

[mezmerized7]

OP, I think you should do the research for 6-10 hrs a week and have more time to work as an EMT. If you stay committed to this volunteer position, I think adcoms will look favorably on that.

 

[majahops]

You actually have just about the PERFECT selection of schools right now, in my opinion. You cover the entire gradient of schools, and with ample numbers at each tier. I tried to pick it apart, but there's really no holes. Great job! 🙂

BTW, nice "GPAs", wanna ****?

Thank you. Although I'm a girl🙂. I'm hoping it'll all be considered good to the adcoms this year.

Whaaattt?? 2's?! I better take the studying up a notch....

Any suggestions on schools while we're discussing my profile? You obviously had a successful app cycle...congrats on those acceptances!

 

[pathophys17]

You actually have just about the PERFECT selection of schools right now, in my opinion. You cover the entire gradient of schools, and with ample numbers at each tier. I tried to pick it apart, but there's really no holes. Great job! 🙂

BTW, nice "GPAs", wanna ****?

Haha I don't know about that😉....I tried to get some from each tier but apparently from my "comments," someone doesn't think so....but thanks!

 

[OncoCaP]

A little more information. Under the 30-40 hour/week summer research opportunity, I would design and perform experiments, collect the results, graph the data, and analyze it statistically under the supervision of a MD and a postdoc. The MD believes that the research will eventually be published and I will have coauthorship, but there is no chance for it to be published by the time of application. Is this experience going to be worth the significant time investment especially seeing as how I likely won't have a publication to show for it by the time of interviews? Thanks!

Any opportunity like what you describe involves a certain amount of risk ... that you would invest time which may or may not pay off with co-authorship of a respectable article. Even if your paper is not complete, you can indicate the working title in your medical school application. All things being equal, you should go with the opportunity that is more substantial (30-40 hr one). As someone else has stated, you really don't need research to make it into medical school, but it might help you get into the school of your choice.

 

[pathophys17]

I'm almost positive I will not pursue research after medical school. But do you really think the 6-10 hour one will help at all in applications to schools like UCSF, Umich, Baylor, etc? I was of the impression that adcoms don't really care about doing the grunt work and want to see students really involved in the experimental process.

If you're really set on getting into higher ranked schools like these that can be more research-intensive, then yes, the 30-40hr opportunity would "look better." I think they tend to want to produce students that are likely to contribute to research in the future/while in school. But it's not like people don't get into these schools without a certain amount of research (and not all students are going to want to pursue it later), and at least you'll be learning about how to do it and show that you've tried it by doing the 6-10 one. ANd you can still keep up your EMT work.