Need Serious Advice, Please Help

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LostStudent2015

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Hi guys,

First let me say thank you for reading and willing to impart some words on wisdom on me. I have never posted anything on a forum before, so I apologize if I write something not entirely clear. Also, I realize that there are so many incredibly qualified people, much better qualified than me, and please don't hate on me in your comments, I am already pretty heartbroken and temporarily lost motivation for pretty much anything, as silly and cheesy as that might sound... 🙁

So I am about to graduate from pre-med and and honors program from a really good university, with a biology degree and an overall GPA of around 3.43 (science GPA more or less around the same). This would be my first time applying to med school (DO, MD, does not matter, although DO is definitely a more viable option in my case). I recently took the damn MCAT for the 3rd time and got a 23 (1st was 21, 2nd 22). I can't with that exam anymore; I hate what it does to me physically and mentally. Physics and organic chemistry are killing me. I know I could do well in med school, I have a feel for it and I'm great with anatomy, but I cannot dig myself out of the MCAT hole of misery, suffering and defeat. I have pretty good extra curriculars and letters of recommendation.
So my question comes down to this, should I try to apply this cycle (I know that my stats are low and me getting in is a possible, yet not super plausible long shot), or wait until next cycle and try to take the new 2015 MCAT in the meantime? I registered for the new one in April, because when I got my results I panicked, but I never took biochem and I am just scared I won't be able to prepare for a good enough score in such a short amount of time 🙁
Any input is greatly appreciated, I feel depressed and burned out, almost as if college and trying to prepare for med school application have drained the life out of me. I am not sure what to do after graduation at all, my whole life I have been in school nonstop. I will greatly appreciate any constructive criticism and/or advice. I am truly not looking for a pat on the back, merely the advice of people wiser than me who have gone through this path.

Thank you all in advance!
 
I personally would not apply before having everything ready. Delay your MCAT. Two months is not enough time (especially since the MCAT has changed).
 
Agree with redvelvet89. From the looks of it, it seems that you have some severe discrepencies in your knowledge or certain subjects to get a 22. I would analyze what you are doing wrong, and take the entire summer to truly study hard. Make sure there is no stone left un-turned when it comes to subjects on the MCAT. THEN take the MCAT either at the end of this year, or early next year. Apply in 2016 for the 2016-2017 cycle. You possibly MIGHT get into medical school with a 22, but your chances are very low, especially since each year the competition gets worst and worst. Your best best is to re-do the MCAT and get a score that is equivalent to 28+.
 
Hi, your stats are literally exactly like mine, with only a 1 or 2 % difference. I applied broadly, and the first day everything opened, and even had a DO LOR. I've had 3 interviews total, 2 post rejections and 1 post interview waitlist. All my interviews were all last year, so I registered to take the April 18th MCAT on the day it opened this year as a way to help my application in case I don't get off the waitlist and need to reapply.

I agree with @redvelvet89, 2 months is not enough time. I know you're in a lot of pain right now (I had all of those emotions, I know exactly what you're feeling), but I think its best to push the exam back a few more months and take it then, or take it next year. Give yourself a break and try again next year. You need to do what's best for you right now. There is nothing wrong with graduating, living life for a bit, and then going back to the mcat and applying again.
 
Sounds like you might need to change your studying technique. I got a 26 on the MCAT with a ~3.4 sGPA and got 3 DO interviews and then struggled my way through first year because I still didn't know how to study. I think I've finally figured it out just in time for boards, but I think you should assess how you are currently studying and what you can do better. Are you doing any practice questions? I agree the MCAT is the worst, but I think you need to take some time off and reset, you can't go back into studying it with the attitude of that damn MCAT, it will only make it harder for you.

Best of luck.
 
I can sense your committment to becoming a MD/DO, however, a 23 just won't cut it. I agree with the other posters who suggest you change/cancel your April MCAT. If you are opposed to redoing the MCAT for a 4th time, you should look into podiatry. Your scores are consistent with DPM matriculants. It is a great career, you will still be a doctor, and you will have great earning potential and lifestyle. All the best to you!

"Academically, the average undergraduate GPA and MCAT Scores of Matriculants have remained about the same in past years. In 2009, the overall GPA was 3.3 and the average science GPA was 3.1. Average MCAT scores for Matriculants also remained relatively constant in all categories over the previous year: Verbal Reasoning went from 7.1 to 7.3; Physical Science scores stayed the same at 7.1; and Biological Sciences increased from 7.5 to 7.7 over the previous year."​

Source: http://www.aacpm.org/html/careerzone/cz3_faqs.asp
 
I dont want to be that guy... But in a very legitimate way, maybe you shouldnt go into medicine as a doctor. You will have many tests which are dramatically harder than the MCAT. A 21, then 22, then 23 after all of this work means you would likely barely sustain good enough grades or the ability to pass your licensing/board exams, thus you would eventually stopped from being a doctor sooner or later. At least you can do it now with a lot less debt and heartache.

Its not for everyone I am afraid... I really am not usually one to try and bum people out or crush dreams. But if I was an adcom and I saw that record I would have to reject. I am sure you are an awesome person, possibly meant for big things. But you have to really look inside yourself here, you would be making a huge financial risk in your future if you are unable to pass boards.

Maybe podiatry, but just be aware that pod school is no easier. You will have an easier time getting in, and I think its a wonderful field. But there is a reason attrition rates are higher in pod school than med school - they pull in weaker applicants who essentially shouldnt be there.

I normally dont think the MCAT correlates with much, but if you cant get a 24 on your first try with some legit studying, then that probably shows that you wouldnt do well on boards.
 
What material did you use to study with?

I self studied over 3 months using Exam Krackers books from maybe ~2007? took 5 AAMC practice exams and felt pretty prepared. Took the exam april 2014, graduated 2013. I could hardly remember my biochem class when I graduated let alone when i took the test 2 years later. I think you'd be better off not trying to continually rush yourself. There's plenty of time to take a cycle off and simply ace the MCAT with more time to study. Serious reflection on your study technique and weaknesses in those sections is a salient must.
 
What were your score breakdowns? What were you averaging? I wouldn't rush a retake, especially with a new test. Find out what's going wrong and fix it, maybe look into a kaplan course (lots of full practice tests) if you can afford it. If you're young about to graduate, study for the 2015 mcat, get out there for some real work experience for a year, and apply next cycle. Your story is somewhat like mine (same gpa, great in anatomy but needed work in physics and orgo). I scored 22 twice and was devastated and the thought of picking myself up and putting all that emotion into a new test was terrible, but I took the time to fix my deficits (while working full time) and scored a 28 (still lower than my 30 average, I would NOT take another until your average is +3 above what you need). Muster the courage and put in the work to get a successful 4th take if medicine is really the only career for you.
 
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LostStudent2015 said:
Hi guys,

First let me say thank you for reading and willing to impart some words on wisdom on me. I have never posted anything on a forum before, so I apologize if I write something not entirely clear. Also, I realize that there are so many incredibly qualified people, much better qualified than me, and please don't hate on me in your comments, I am already pretty heartbroken and temporarily lost motivation for pretty much anything, as silly and cheesy as that might sound... 🙁

So I am about to graduate from pre-med and and honors program from a really good university, with a biology degree and an overall GPA of around 3.43 (science GPA more or less around the same). This would be my first time applying to med school (DO, MD, does not matter, although DO is definitely a more viable option in my case). I recently took the damn MCAT for the 3rd time and got a 23 (1st was 21, 2nd 22). I can't with that exam anymore; I hate what it does to me physically and mentally. Physics and organic chemistry are killing me. I know I could do well in med school, I have a feel for it and I'm great with anatomy, but I cannot dig myself out of the MCAT hole of misery, suffering and defeat. I have pretty good extra curriculars and letters of recommendation.
So my question comes down to this, should I try to apply this cycle (I know that my stats are low and me getting in is a possible, yet not super plausible long shot), or wait until next cycle and try to take the new 2015 MCAT in the meantime? I registered for the new one in April, because when I got my results I panicked, but I never took biochem and I am just scared I won't be able to prepare for a good enough score in such a short amount of time 🙁
Any input is greatly appreciated, I feel depressed and burned out, almost as if college and trying to prepare for med school application have drained the life out of me. I am not sure what to do after graduation at all, my whole life I have been in school nonstop. I will greatly appreciate any constructive criticism and/or advice. I am truly not looking for a pat on the back, merely the advice of people wiser than me who have gone through this path.

Thank you all in advance!
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First, don't let anyone tell you what you can or can't be. Second, we don't know much about you other than your stats that you have posted. If you feel you have a good application other than the MCAT score, then why not try to apply? It will cost you, yes, but at least you won't have any regrets. You might also be eligible to apply for a special masters program or a Caribbean school. I know the anti Caribbean sentiment on these pages but people who work hard and do well still get residency positions. I am not sure if I would personally take the MCAT a 4th time. That might look more negative.
 
FBurnaby said:
What were your score breakdowns? What were you averaging? I wouldn't rush a retake, especially with a new test. Find out what's going wrong and fix it, maybe look into a kaplan course (lots of full practice tests) if you can afford it. If you're young about to graduate, study for the 2015 mcat, get out there for some real work experience, and apply next cycle. Your story is somewhat like mine (same gpa, great in anatomy but needed work in physics and orgo). I scored 22 twice and was devastated and the thought of picking myself up and putting all that emotion into a new test was terrible, but I took the time to fix my deficits (while working full time) and scored a 28 (still lower than my 30 average, I would NOT take another until your average is +3 above what you need). Muster the courage and put in the work to get a successful 4th take if medicine is really the only career for you.
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Hi, thank you so much for the input! My section scores on the last MCAT were 9VR, 8BS, and 6PS - it's the physics which mostly completely kills me, because I simply cannot 'think physics', if that makes any sense 🙂 I swear sometimes with the level physics insight the MCAT requires I feel like I'm trying to get into a graduate engineering program, not medicine 🙂
 
LostStudent2015 said:
Hi, thank you so much for the input! My section scores on the last MCAT were 9VR, 8BS, and 6PS - it's the physics which mostly completely kills me, because I simply cannot 'think physics', if that makes any sense 🙂 I swear sometimes with the level physics insight the MCAT requires I feel like I'm trying to get into a graduate engineering program, not medicine 🙂
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I would personally recommend TPR review books and science workbook as well as chad's video if you are weak in PS.
 
@LostStudent2015
#1 advice from ADCOMs (some I saw on a few KaplanPulse segments) is to apply with you best possible application. Although some could argue being a re-applicant doesn't hurt you at ALL schools, it will only make things harder for you the second application cycle. Not to mention the money you'll be dishing out to do so, and when you factor in interviews it gets crazy expensive.

Maybe you don't have the strongest EC's/Volunteering/Shadowing/Clinical Exposure either? A gap year is perfect for gaining some additional insight on the field of medicine. I worked as a medical scribe during my gap year in Family Medicine and it gave me much more insight on the profession than shadowing could ever do. Not to mention the residual effects it has during interviews.

By taking a gap year you can substantially improve your application and qualify yourself for all osteopathic programs. You'll feel more confident during the application cycle, interviews, and transitioning into first year. Hit the books hard, do tons of physics practice problems, mark your progress through practice tests, score well on the real thing, go to medical school.

EDIT: I wanted to add that one of my friends from college took the MCAT at least 4 times and he is now at NEOMED. He also hated the MCAT, he just didn't get VR but persevered. You have an upward trend with no crazily unbalanced scores, I don't see a 4th attempt "hurting" your chances.
 
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Definitely hold off on that MCAT retake. You need time to cool off, because it is obvious that you are very flustered right now. After a bit of a cool down time, objectively assess where you are weak, then come up with a plan to fix the weakness, carry out said plan, then and only then retake the MCAT.
 
MedNation907 said:
@LostStudent2015
#1 advice from ADCOMs (some I saw on a few KaplanPulse segments) is to apply with you best possible application. Although some could argue being a re-applicant doesn't hurt you at ALL schools, it will only make things harder for you the second application cycle. Not to mention the money you'll be dishing out to do so, and when you factor in interviews it gets crazy expensive.

Maybe you don't have the strongest EC's/Volunteering/Shadowing/Clinical Exposure either? A gap year is perfect for gaining some additional insight on the field of medicine. I worked as a medical scribe during my gap year in Family Medicine and it gave me much more insight on the profession than shadowing could ever do. Not to mention the residual effects it has during interviews.

By taking a gap year you can substantially improve your application and qualify yourself for all osteopathic programs. You'll feel more confident during the application cycle, interviews, and transitioning into first year. Hit the books hard, do tons of physics practice problems, mark your progress through practice tests, score well on the real thing, go to medical school.

EDIT: I wanted to add that one of my friends from college took the MCAT at least 4 times and he is now at NEOMED. He also hated the MCAT, he just didn't get VR but persevered. You have an upward trend with no crazily unbalanced scores, I don't see a 4th attempt "hurting" your chances.
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i will add to my earlier point... that if you really are just that determined, i really second the idea of a gap year. I know personally it helped me more than I could have ever imagined. Its hard to accept at first, but then after some time you realize all of the stuff you can add to your app in a year. I imagine it would also take off a lot of the MCAT stress - let you cool down as other are suggesting.
 
Ok.

OP, you are not prepared to take the MCAT in 2 months. Cancel the MCAT, just do it.
2nd, go get a new username. "loststudent" speaks to your depression and self-view, and it just won't help you. Seriously.

You need a plan of action and you need your MCAT to be no less than 4 points higher than your best score to start sniffing a chance. We're talking 5-6 months of study, and only after a month or more of rest, relaxation and getting your mind back in the game, (or perhaps deciding that this isn't for you).

You really have dug yourself into a hole, and your competitiveness starts with a MCAT that says to admissions "this is not longer a part of me, I am no longer a low 20's MCAT student, I'm a high 20's, self-confident, had some slips ups but back on track"

You need time and a refocus to get there. Rest, re calibrate, and go again with a plan of 6 months down the road ONLY AFTER GETTING 27++ ON ALL YOUR PRACTICE EXAMS.
 
I would recommend taking some time off and doing something to get your head back in the game. A 21, 22, and now a 23 for the third time is a huge letdown. You are expected to improve but not by only one point starting from a low of 21. Of course, the situation would be much different if it were a 27-->28, or a 31-->32, since those are already somewhat solid scores (depending on who you ask, where you apply, etc.)

Also, make sure you want to go this route. As it was stated up above, Med school is all about standardized testing... throwing a bunch of subjects together and seeing how you do. I know studying for the MCAT sucks and it scars some people... but just be calm and if you really really REALLLLLLYY want this, then you'll buckle down and tackle this obstacle. Many people have to go through the same test. Everybody on here is either in or has been in the same position and needed to tackle this beast.

If you want it, then go get it.
 
Pretty much...The whole mcat process (registering.. studying.. taking it.. and WAITING for your damn score) sucks testicles!
 
LostStudent2015 said:
Hi guys,

First let me say thank you for reading and willing to impart some words on wisdom on me. I have never posted anything on a forum before, so I apologize if I write something not entirely clear. Also, I realize that there are so many incredibly qualified people, much better qualified than me, and please don't hate on me in your comments, I am already pretty heartbroken and temporarily lost motivation for pretty much anything, as silly and cheesy as that might sound... 🙁

So I am about to graduate from pre-med and and honors program from a really good university, with a biology degree and an overall GPA of around 3.43 (science GPA more or less around the same). This would be my first time applying to med school (DO, MD, does not matter, although DO is definitely a more viable option in my case). I recently took the damn MCAT for the 3rd time and got a 23 (1st was 21, 2nd 22). I can't with that exam anymore; I hate what it does to me physically and mentally. Physics and organic chemistry are killing me. I know I could do well in med school, I have a feel for it and I'm great with anatomy, but I cannot dig myself out of the MCAT hole of misery, suffering and defeat. I have pretty good extra curriculars and letters of recommendation.
So my question comes down to this, should I try to apply this cycle (I know that my stats are low and me getting in is a possible, yet not super plausible long shot), or wait until next cycle and try to take the new 2015 MCAT in the meantime? I registered for the new one in April, because when I got my results I panicked, but I never took biochem and I am just scared I won't be able to prepare for a good enough score in such a short amount of time 🙁
Any input is greatly appreciated, I feel depressed and burned out, almost as if college and trying to prepare for med school application have drained the life out of me. I am not sure what to do after graduation at all, my whole life I have been in school nonstop. I will greatly appreciate any constructive criticism and/or advice. I am truly not looking for a pat on the back, merely the advice of people wiser than me who have gone through this path.

Thank you all in advance!
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Ah man, you have to take Biochem for pretty much everywhere next cycle, so you might as well sign up and take it before you retake MCAT. I would fill out an intial app to lower DO schools with what you have and then try to retake in aug and expand your app if scores improve. Dont get down, theres a whole thread of underdawgs who succeeded.

But yeah sending in a primary now to most programs would be a waste of money.
 
What ever you do, if you decide to retake the MCAT don't go about it the same way as in the past and expect a different result. You are going to have to make some dramatic changes on how you go about studying for this beast of a test. Perhaps a study prep course might be helpful for you since self study has not. It sure helped me.
 
100% agree.


LChristmas said:
I can sense your committment to becoming a MD/DO, however, a 23 just won't cut it. I agree with the other posters who suggest you change/cancel your April MCAT. If you are opposed to redoing the MCAT for a 4th time, you should look into podiatry. Your scores are consistent with DPM matriculants. It is a great career, you will still be a doctor, and you will have great earning potential and lifestyle. All the best to you!

"Academically, the average undergraduate GPA and MCAT Scores of Matriculants have remained about the same in past years. In 2009, the overall GPA was 3.3 and the average science GPA was 3.1. Average MCAT scores for Matriculants also remained relatively constant in all categories over the previous year: Verbal Reasoning went from 7.1 to 7.3; Physical Science scores stayed the same at 7.1; and Biological Sciences increased from 7.5 to 7.7 over the previous year."​

Source: http://www.aacpm.org/html/careerzone/cz3_faqs.asp
Click to expand...
 
DocWinter said:
Ok.

OP, you are not prepared to take the MCAT in 2 months. Cancel the MCAT, just do it.
2nd, go get a new username. "loststudent" speaks to your depression and self-view, and it just won't help you. Seriously.

You need a plan of action and you need your MCAT to be no less than 4 points higher than your best score to start sniffing a chance. We're talking 5-6 months of study, and only after a month or more of rest, relaxation and getting your mind back in the game, (or perhaps deciding that this isn't for you).

You really have dug yourself into a hole, and your competitiveness starts with a MCAT that says to admissions "this is not longer a part of me, I am no longer a low 20's MCAT student, I'm a high 20's, self-confident, had some slips ups but back on track"

You need time and a refocus to get there. Rest, re calibrate, and go again with a plan of 6 months down the road ONLY AFTER GETTING 27++ ON ALL YOUR PRACTICE EXAMS.
Click to expand...

This exactly, meaning you might be applying in the 2016-2017 cycle, but I personally couldn't imagine not having time between med school and undergrad. Just remember that your past scores don't define you and to take things one day at a time. The MCAT is only one day, so look at it as learning to apply the sciences in your study instead of letting one test hang over you. I would also say take biochemistry.
 
cadingcading said:
First, don't let anyone tell you what you can or can't be. Second, we don't know much about you other than your stats that you have posted. If you feel you have a good application other than the MCAT score, then why not try to apply? It will cost you, yes, but at least you won't have any regrets. You might also be eligible to apply for a special masters program or a Caribbean school. I know the anti Caribbean sentiment on these pages but people who work hard and do well still get residency positions. I am not sure if I would personally take the MCAT a 4th time. That might look more negative.
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Completely disagree. Stop holding the OP's hand and give him/her real advice.

OP you really do not have a realistic shot and med school. You should start working on your plan B. Your scores are good for pod school. Also look into nursing or PA.
 
If you want it bad, revamp study techniques and retake MCAT. Do a gap year if need be. You need to be in optimal shape and applying early.
 
referee3 said:
Completely disagree. Stop holding the OP's hand and give him/her real advice.

OP you really do not have a realistic shot and med school. You should start working on your plan B. Your scores are good for pod school. Also look into nursing or PA.
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You have no idea who the OP is besides what he/she has posted - none of us do. You are making judgments based on very little info. It is ultimately up to the OP to make the decision for what is best for him/her. There have been people who have gotten into medical school with similar or maybe even lower stats. There is always the option of SMPs with linkage that have accepted people with MCAT scores in the teens.
 
To add to the above post, some people have to work harder than others to achieve their dream. I agree that a low MCAT shouldn't be taken lightly, but to say that he has no shot whatsoever based off of this thread is absolutely insane lol. How about work harder on the MCAT for starters? It's possible to come back from this. Improving how he/she studies can boost MCAT and success through medical school. That's as simple as it can get at this point.
 
MedNation907 said:
To add to the above post, some people have to work harder than others to achieve their dream. I agree that a low MCAT shouldn't be taken lightly, but to say that he has no shot whatsoever based off of this thread is absolutely insane lol. How about work harder on the MCAT for starters? It's possible to come back from this. Improving how he/she studies can boost MCAT and success through medical school. That's as simple as it can get at this point.
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Retaking the MCAT again seems quite futile. OP's scores are consistant and it is doubtful the a fourth attempt will make a difference. I'm just giving honest advice. Sometimes the truth hurts.
 
referee3 said:
Retaking the MCAT again seems quite futile. OP's scores are consistant and it is doubtful the a fourth attempt will make a difference. I'm just giving honest advice. Sometimes the truth hurts.
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I agree... 3 tries with basically the same score is pretty telling. Its not like the OP took it once and people are trying to dissuade him. He has tried 3 times and is still too low.

So let me get this straight... everyone here is suggesting that the OP take 250K+ out in loans, go to medical school and then drop out in his 6th year (after 2 remediation years) because he couldnt pass his boards and become a licensed physician? That doesnt sound fiscally responsible to me. It sounds like people dont want to come off as jerks. You know what, I would rather come off like a jerk but legitimately help this guy, than to keep pushing him to drop more money and time out of his life for something that realistically is getting out of his reach with every time he takes the test. The proof is in the pudding here. I mean he can take the test as many times as he wants, its his life, I sure as heck wont stop him; but seriously here, if he cant get a good score on his 4th try then its just not meant to be. Accepting what you arent called to do with your life is just as important as what you are called to do.

Becoming a physician is not a right, its a privilege that is gained by working hard and passing the same check points as all of the other students/doctors that went before you. There are some life circumstances and such that I am pressed to understand and that I believe make up for low scores. But seriously yall... 3 bad scores in a row. How do you guys really think he will do in school if he cant even pass the test to get in with this many tries? How many tries is it going to take this fella to pass step 1? I am not trying to be mean or hate on this guy, I am sure he's a great person; I am just trying to be realistic here, this is but the first hurdle of many hurdles that get incrementally harder.

It just is what it is, life is hard like that sometimes.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
I agree... 3 tries with basically the same score is pretty telling. Its not like the OP took it once and people are trying to dissuade him. He has tried 3 times and is still too low.

So let me get this straight... everyone here is suggesting that the OP take 250K+ out in loans, go to medical school and then drop out in his 6th year (after 2 remediation years) because he couldnt pass his boards and become a licensed physician? That doesnt sound fiscally responsible to me. It sounds like people dont want to come off as jerks. You know what, I would rather come off like a jerk but legitimately help this guy, than to keep pushing him to drop more money and time out of his life for something that realistically is getting out of his reach with every time he takes the test. The proof is in the pudding here. I mean he can take the test as many times as he wants, its his life, I sure as heck wont stop him; but seriously here, if he cant get a good score on his 4th try then its just not meant to be. Accepting what you arent called to do with your life is just as important as what you are called to do.

Becoming a physician is not a right, its a privilege that is gained by working hard and passing the same check points as all of the other students/doctors that went before you. There are some life circumstances and such that I am pressed to understand and that I believe make up for low scores. But seriously yall... 3 bad scores in a row. How do you guys really think he will do in school if he cant even pass the test to get in with this many tries? How many tries is it going to take this fella to pass step 1? I am not trying to be mean or hate on this guy, I am sure he's a great person; I am just trying to be realistic here, this is but the first hurdle of many hurdles that get incrementally harder.

It just is what it is, life is hard like that sometimes.
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No - I am suggesting for the OP to make an informed decision based on whatever he or she thinks is right. You are right that becoming a doctor is a privilege but to tell someone to pull up their bootstraps and get to work without knowing where they are coming from is just not right. There is more to people than just mcat scores. I see that you are an accepted medical student? I take it that you applied to DO programs which is why you are in this forum? Isn't part of the DO philosophy to look holistically at the entire picture? You keep mentioning the 3 mcat scores as if that is all that defines the OP and that's why he or she should just give up now. Like I said, people I know have gotten into medical school with lower mcat scores.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
I agree... 3 tries with basically the same score is pretty telling. Its not like the OP took it once and people are trying to dissuade him. He has tried 3 times and is still too low.

So let me get this straight... everyone here is suggesting that the OP take 250K+ out in loans, go to medical school and then drop out in his 6th year (after 2 remediation years) because he couldnt pass his boards and become a licensed physician? That doesnt sound fiscally responsible to me. It sounds like people dont want to come off as jerks. You know what, I would rather come off like a jerk but legitimately help this guy, than to keep pushing him to drop more money and time out of his life for something that realistically is getting out of his reach with every time he takes the test. The proof is in the pudding here. I mean he can take the test as many times as he wants, its his life, I sure as heck wont stop him; but seriously here, if he cant get a good score on his 4th try then its just not meant to be. Accepting what you arent called to do with your life is just as important as what you are called to do.

Becoming a physician is not a right, its a privilege that is gained by working hard and passing the same check points as all of the other students/doctors that went before you. There are some life circumstances and such that I am pressed to understand and that I believe make up for low scores. But seriously yall... 3 bad scores in a row. How do you guys really think he will do in school if he cant even pass the test to get in with this many tries? How many tries is it going to take this fella to pass step 1? I am not trying to be mean or hate on this guy, I am sure he's a great person; I am just trying to be realistic here, this is but the first hurdle of many hurdles that get incrementally harder.

It just is what it is, life is hard like that sometimes.
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Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
I agree... 3 tries with basically the same score is pretty telling. Its not like the OP took it once and people are trying to dissuade him. He has tried 3 times and is still too low.

So let me get this straight... everyone here is suggesting that the OP take 250K+ out in loans, go to medical school and then drop out in his 6th year (after 2 remediation years) because he couldnt pass his boards and become a licensed physician? That doesnt sound fiscally responsible to me. It sounds like people dont want to come off as jerks. You know what, I would rather come off like a jerk but legitimately help this guy, than to keep pushing him to drop more money and time out of his life for something that realistically is getting out of his reach with every time he takes the test. The proof is in the pudding here. I mean he can take the test as many times as he wants, its his life, I sure as heck wont stop him; but seriously here, if he cant get a good score on his 4th try then its just not meant to be. Accepting what you arent called to do with your life is just as important as what you are called to do.

Becoming a physician is not a right, its a privilege that is gained by working hard and passing the same check points as all of the other students/doctors that went before you. There are some life circumstances and such that I am pressed to understand and that I believe make up for low scores. But seriously yall... 3 bad scores in a row. How do you guys really think he will do in school if he cant even pass the test to get in with this many tries? How many tries is it going to take this fella to pass step 1? I am not trying to be mean or hate on this guy, I am sure he's a great person; I am just trying to be realistic here, this is but the first hurdle of many hurdles that get incrementally harder.

It just is what it is, life is hard like that sometimes.
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cadingcading said:
No - I am suggesting for the OP to make an informed decision based on whatever he or she thinks is right. You are right that becoming a doctor is a privilege but to tell someone to pull up their bootstraps and get to work without knowing where they are coming from is just not right. There is more to people than just mcat scores. I see that you are an accepted medical student? I take it that you applied to DO programs which is why you are in this forum? Isn't part of the DO philosophy to look holistically at the entire picture? You keep mentioning the 3 mcat scores as if that is all that defines the OP and that's why he or she should just give up now. Like I said, people I know have gotten into medical school with lower mcat scores.
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The sauceman isn't being mean. The fact of the matter is that statistically low mcat scores are a risk factor for failing out of school. If OP wants to apply, he should understand the situation and make an informed decision. As @Goro and the other ADCOMs have said, med schools/medicine are addicted to standardized tests. Not that the OP would for sure fair poorly on the COMLEX/USMLE, but they too are standardized tests that will be a challenge.

I am all for making your own personal decision, based on ones own sense of what is the right thing to do. I wish OP the best in whatever he chooses, I only hope it's an educated decision.
 
cadingcading said:
No - I am suggesting for the OP to make an informed decision based on whatever he or she thinks is right. You are right that becoming a doctor is a privilege but to tell someone to pull up their bootstraps and get to work without knowing where they are coming from is just not right. There is more to people than just mcat scores. I see that you are an accepted medical student? I take it that you applied to DO programs which is why you are in this forum? Isn't part of the DO philosophy to look holistically at the entire picture? You keep mentioning the 3 mcat scores as if that is all that defines the OP and that's why he or she should just give up now. Like I said, people I know have gotten into medical school with lower mcat scores.
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I promise it was not an attempt to get on some high horse because I have been accepted. I am humbled and thankful for the cycle I just went through. The overall holistic attitude among DO adcom members definitely helped me get into school. And if you have followed my posts in the past at all, I would hope those of you who are looking at me in a bad light would remember many of the underdogs which I have vigorously defended and supported with my time and advice on here. I am not just trolling to ruin people's day.

I just truly believe there is a base level of intelligence/test taking skills/whatever you want to call it, that is physically required to be able to graduate medical school. As I mentioned in the post you quoted, "There are some life circumstances and such that I am pressed to understand and that I believe make up for low scores," i.e. I do believe there are many other factors which are incredibly important for making a well rounded physician. BUT it doesnt matter what those factors are, or how great or altruistic of a person you are if you cant physically get through medical school. As it stands now, the way to get through medical school is to pass a series of exams that only increase in depth, breadth, and challenge. If a person cant pass a major test like this on this many tries, I simply suggest, as you say, that the OP "make an informed decision based on whatever he or she thinks is right."

If this was a loved one - brother, sister, friend, etc - I would be saying the same thing. I am not trying to break anybody down here. I am trying to help someone realize their situation before they keep sinking more of their life down a path that - due to the physical proof of this person's test taking skills - will very likely not be able to achieve even if he is able to manage an acceptance.
 
Stlblues17 said:
The sauceman isn't being mean. The fact of the matter is that statistically low mcat scores are a risk factor for failing out of school. If OP wants to apply, he should understand the situation and make an informed decision. As @Goro and the other ADCOMs have said, med schools/medicine are addicted to standardized tests. Not that the OP would for sure fair poorly on the COMLEX/USMLE, but they too are standardized tests that will be a challenge.

I am all for making your own personal decision, based on ones own sense of what is the right thing to do. I wish OP the best in whatever he chooses, I only hope it's an educated decision.
Click to expand...
Exactly... The statistics are wishy washy when it comes to MCAT score correlating with board scores - as in a high MCAT doesnt necessarily correlate to a high board score. But what IS pretty firm statistically and in the eyes of adcoms is that an MCAT score below a certain threshold is a red flag that the person would likely not be able to pass board exams. For people who score between a 25 and 35 I believe anyone has a chance to do just as well on board exams. I know people with low scores that became really passionate in medical school and did well. But getting a 21, followed by a 22, then a 23 is a red flag.

All I am advocating is for the OP to look inside him/herself and to make a sound decision based on reality. Dont make this decision because enough people said "we believe in you! You can do it!" or because you just feel like you have no other options. There are thousands of awesome other careers that the OP could invest his life in. I think he owes it to him/herself to explore some other fields, maybe take some time away from this med school idea.
 
I agree with @Awesome Sauceome and @Stlblues17 here, the statistics are not on the side of the OP. While sure it is possible that a person may get into school with scores like that, there is also an astronomical risk that such folks will not make it. It is only wise for one to do some serious soul searching as to if it is worth a $250,000+ risk to try to swing and acceptance with stats that low. The 3 low scores in a row are really concerning and suggest a greater issue at hand.
 
Perhaps the OP wouldn't mind sharing their variations in strategy from each test attempt. Perhaps there hasn't been sufficient meta-analysis, if they were rush decisions only months apart then it could be a result of poor planning.

There are MCAT tutors, albeit expensive, but you can't really put a price tag on your best effort. It will be substantially harder to succeed in the new MCAT. Right now the OP's admission chances in a U.S. Med school are virtually nil.
 
I believe that a person should exhaust all options before giving up on a dream. One caveat to that: you don't go Caribbean.

I would like to know more about the OP's MCAT prep. What he/she getting low-to-mid 20s on practice exams? Did she perform practice exams period? Was there some sort of strategy to identify and improve on deficiencies...and what were they?

There is a chance that the OP has the mental capacity but just has no clue how to prep for the MCAT. Essential he/she was making the same mistakes on every examination. If that is the case...then I think that there is some hope for him/her. I believe that on a fourth attempt that she could at least get some looks with a 26+ retake. It's doable with time and a focused effort. If he/she is consistently getting mid-to-high 20s on practice exams...I say retake the MCAT...apply early and broadly.

I know that there is lots of fear in association with the new MCAT. I was a sociology and psych whiz in undergrad so I think that I may have benefited from the new MCAT. Clearly the OP hasn't been prepping effectively for the old exam...so he/she may actually do better on the new exam (considering the bell-shaped curve) with a more focused prep.
 
Yeah honestly, this thread so far is pretty useful to the OP. Hearing the cold hearted truth regarding his low MCAT scores is important, because if he is really willing to give up his dream because someone on SDN said he had low chances than that is a huge financial trap that was avoided. However, I have to agree that the MCAT (although some statistical correlation) doesn't assess one's value appropriately. And that's just the truth.. I myself have worked with a successful physician who scored poorly on the MCAT. He wasn't the top of his class and he didn't crush his placement tests but he did average and is doing what he loves today. That's just one person I happened to come across, I'm sure there are plenty other physicians fitting that profile. Not to mention plenty of kids from my college writing low 20 MCATs who are doing very well in medical school as we debate this issue.

At the end of the day, it's impossible to say that someone like OP has a 0% chance of making it into and transcending through medical school. Impossible. BUT I think it's necessary to face the crude possibilities, be placed in the hot seat and be forced to rise to the occasion. Because it will take that kind of persistence to succeed through medical school with those scores.
 
Dear All,

First off, thank you so much for all of your input. I really appreciate that no one was rude or mean, but basically the whole thread consists of constructive criticism, which is exactly what I was looking for! For that thank you again 🙂
I think that after graduating in May of this year, I will simply work part time and put aside some money for survival 🙂 and attempt the last shot at studying for the (this time new) MCAT. I want to go to medical school very much. I think hat these few months after graduation will give me the time to asses my aptitudes and give me an opportunity to clear my head.
I know that many of you might be, perhaps rightfully so, thinking that I am crazy and undecided and just waisting my time. My family and I moved to the US about 5 years ago and I am the only one in it who speaks English. I spent the time since moving here continuing my education, but going through a huge personal, inner struggle. My parents want to leave the US, I do not or am not sure. It is heartbreaking and I do not wish it on anyone. On top of that, we have been living with insane family up until the past year, who have a wonderful gift of making an individual feel like a complete piece of worthless excrement (because only physical labor with immediate, even minimal, financial reward, and money for the sake of money matter). That did not help. I think that my life has been so hectic since moving to the US that I never really got the chance to step back and focus on myself only. I know this seems like a bunch of nonsense, and it is by far no excuse for a low MCAT score (it would be ridiculous to say that), but I just wanted to get it off my chest and shine a little more light on myself as the person behind the MCAT.
Ok, so going back to the MCAT itself, I do not think that I stand no chance of doing better on it and/or that the odds of me doing well in medical school are slim because of my initial low scores. I am hardworking, resilient, and mentally tough. I don't think my chances at med school are lost by any means. But I agree with most of you that a step back and focusing on the MCAT alone is a good idea. I think my biggest problem is organizing myself. I took a Kaplan prep course the first time around, but found it relatively unhelpful. Maybe I didn't utilize it well? Who knows. Obviously I made mistakes in my preparation, but I am not sure how to zone in on them... Any advice on that? I always, always ran out of time on the physics section, which was a problem. The funny thing is, I did a few practice tests from the AAMC and got up to a 26, but the real test still killed me. What could be the reason? I am good with psychology, so maybe the new MCAT will be a blessing in disguise, as one of you pointed out.
Even though I am not a super rocker science genius and I am realistic, and I realize there are many people out there (including this thread), I have no intention of giving up for now. I am intelligent and determined. I must find my way and sacrificing a year to do that in the scope of the entire life seems insignificant.
Once again thank you all for your input; I am humbled by the interest and supportiveness of this community. I will patiently await your further advice 🙂

All the best,
-Me 🙂
 
Last edited:
I feel your pain. Some people are just not good at standardized exams. I'm one of them. If you really want to go to med school maybe consider getting a masters? Boost up your GPA to compensate for a low MCAT.
 
LostStudent2015 said:
Dear All,

First off, thank you so much for all of your input. I really appreciate that no one was rude or mean, but basically the whole thread consists of constructive criticism, which is exactly what I was looking for! For that thank you again 🙂
I think that after graduating in May of this year, I will simply work part time and put aside some money for survival 🙂 and attempt the last shot at studying for the (this time new) MCAT. I want to go to medical school very much. I think hat these few months after graduation will give me the time to asses my aptitudes and give me an opportunity to clear my head.
I know that many of you might be, perhaps rightfully so, thinking that I am crazy and undecided and just waisting my time. My family and I moved to the US about 5 years ago and I am the only one in it who speaks English. I spent the time since moving here continuing my education, but going through a huge personal, inner struggle. My parents want to leave the US, I do not or am not sure. It is heartbreaking and I do not wish it on anyone. On top of that, we have been living with insane family up until the past year, who have a wonderful gift of making an individual feel like a complete piece of worthless excrement (because only physical labor with immediate, even minimal, financial reward, and money for the sake of money matter). That did not help. I think that my life has been so hectic since moving to the US that I never really got the chance to step back and focus on myself only. I know this seems like a bunch of nonsense, and it is by far no excuse for a low MCAT score (it would be ridiculous to say that), but I just wanted to get it off my chest and shine a little more light on myself as the person behind the MCAT.
Ok, so going back to the MCAT itself, I do not think that I stand no chance of doing better on it and/or that the odds of me doing well in medical school are slim because of my initial low scores. I am hardworking, resilient, and mentally tough. I don't think my chances at med school are lost by any means. But I agree with most of you that a step back and focusing on the MCAT alone is a good idea. I think my biggest problem is organizing myself. I took a Kaplan prep course the first time around, but found it relatively unhelpful. Maybe I didn't utilize it well? Who knows. Obviously I made mistakes in my preparation, but I am not sure how to zone in on them... Any advice on that? I always, always ran out of time on the physics section, which was a problem. The funny thing is, I did a few practice tests from the AAMC and got up to a 26, but the real test still killed me. What could be the reason? I am good with psychology, so maybe the new MCAT will be a blessing in disguise, as one of you pointed out.
Even though I am not a super rocker science genius and I am realistic, and I realize there are many people out there (including this thread), I have no intention of giving up for now. I am intelligent and determined. I must find my way and sacrificing a year to do that in the scope of the entire life seems insignificant.
Once again thank you all for your input; I am humbled by the interest and supportiveness of this community. I will patiently await your further advice 🙂

All the best,
-Me 🙂
Click to expand...
Up to a 26? This combined with law considerations and taking a whole prep course and getting such a low scores is much more worrying. I would take a full year off (I highly doubt part time work will set anything aside) and then come back with a clear mindset of what you want to pursue. Please do not retake the mcat until you're averaging much higher (if at all).
 
LostStudent2015 said:
Dear All,

First off, thank you so much for all of your input. I really appreciate that no one was rude or mean, but basically the whole thread consists of constructive criticism, which is exactly what I was looking for! For that thank you again 🙂
I think that after graduating in May of this year, I will simply work part time and put aside some money for survival 🙂 and attempt the last shot at studying for the (this time new) MCAT. I want to go to medical school very much. I think hat these few months after graduation will give me the time to asses my aptitudes and give me an opportunity to clear my head.
I know that many of you might be, perhaps rightfully so, thinking that I am crazy and undecided and just waisting my time. My family and I moved to the US about 5 years ago and I am the only one in it who speaks English. I spent the time since moving here continuing my education, but going through a huge personal, inner struggle. My parents want to leave the US, I do not or am not sure. It is heartbreaking and I do not wish it on anyone. On top of that, we have been living with insane family up until the past year, who have a wonderful gift of making an individual feel like a complete piece of worthless excrement (because only physical labor with immediate, even minimal, financial reward, and money for the sake of money matter). That did not help. I think that my life has been so hectic since moving to the US that I never really got the chance to step back and focus on myself only. I know this seems like a bunch of nonsense, and it is by far no excuse for a low MCAT score (it would be ridiculous to say that), but I just wanted to get it off my chest and shine a little more light on myself as the person behind the MCAT.
Ok, so going back to the MCAT itself, I do not think that I stand no chance of doing better on it and/or that the odds of me doing well in medical school are slim because of my initial low scores. I am hardworking, resilient, and mentally tough. I don't think my chances at med school are lost by any means. But I agree with most of you that a step back and focusing on the MCAT alone is a good idea. I think my biggest problem is organizing myself. I took a Kaplan prep course the first time around, but found it relatively unhelpful. Maybe I didn't utilize it well? Who knows. Obviously I made mistakes in my preparation, but I am not sure how to zone in on them... Any advice on that? I always, always ran out of time on the physics section, which was a problem. The funny thing is, I did a few practice tests from the AAMC and got up to a 26, but the real test still killed me. What could be the reason? I am good with psychology, so maybe the new MCAT will be a blessing in disguise, as one of you pointed out.
Even though I am not a super rocker science genius and I am realistic, and I realize there are many people out there (including this thread), I have no intention of giving up for now. I am intelligent and determined. I must find my way and sacrificing a year to do that in the scope of the entire life seems insignificant.
Once again thank you all for your input; I am humbled by the interest and supportiveness of this community. I will patiently await your further advice 🙂

All the best,
-Me 🙂
Click to expand...

How does your study schedule look like and what resources did you use? There maybe something that needs to be changed. Also, those practice test scores need to be higher. Try to shoot for a 30 average.

There are also times you need to look outside the book to get an understanding of a concept better. I had to do this for thin film interference, because virtually every prep book did a horrible job explaining it. I don't know if this is happening to you, it might be a combination of things.
 
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