need serious advice--please help!

[PizzaButt]

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Hi,

I'm a non-traditional applicant (30) who is about to apply to programs. I have everything ready to go: recommenders are writing their letters, personal statement, etc. is done, I took my psych pre-reqs, I have research experience and clinical experience, (the latter of which was difficult to find given that I am 10 years out of undergrad and not affiliated with a university).

Anyhow, the major problem is the GRE. I have studied for the past two months, took a prep course, and my test date is coming up this week. The problem is that I've taken a number of practice tests lately, and they're all bad. And I mean bad. I was a National Merit scholar and rocked the SATs so I don't know what's happening. My latest scores were: M: 510, V 530. They have fluctuated, but I have never broken a M 570 on my practice tests.

I am applying to PhD clinical psych programs, all of which unfortunately are highly competitive due to the fact that they're in major metropolitan areas, which needs to be the case due to my husband's job.

I don't know if I should even take the test this week. (This is my first time taking the GRE). How do schools view multiple GREs? What do they do with them (average them, etc.) I barely have time to retake and meet my app. deadlines. I truly do not feel that I can do anything else to study. I have done everything--practice problems, prep class, math flash cards, practice tests. My main issue with verbal is that on the analogies, my sentence is always good, but is never the one that they end up using to find the answer, and so I get the wrong answer (even though my sentence/reasoning makes sense to me). And on math, I just feel I have reached the limit of my abilities here. I've gone through the entire book, done flash cards, done practice problems, etc.

Also, I have no idea what I can do for another year and a half if I don't end up applying this year or getting in. I don't want to go back to my former career, and I am volunteering in a psych research position to gain experience. I need to get at least a part-time job that pays well--or a full-time job would be better.

I really don't know what to do and I don't have an advisor. I feel kind of depressed and totally alone.

Also, I'm not able to consider master's programs as an entree to the PhD because a) I'm already 30 and don't want to waste time on a degree I'm not interested in, and b) I have student loan debt and my husband's student loan debt and can't afford to pay for 2 years of a master's program when I'm not interested in that degree.

Please help!

 

[Reem16]

Hi Pizzabutt,

May I ask, which prep tests were you using for the GREs? I found that the Kaplan tests for instance always underestimated my scores by about 100 points, on both subtests. (Have others noticed this too?). On the other hand, the practice tests ETS provides on its website gave me a much more accurate idea of what my scores were going to be.

So if you haven't already done so, go take one of those tests on the ETS website to see if your scores improve. I think you've worked too hard and done too much preparation to just give up now. Give the GREs the best you've got and apply with those scores (and don't stress too much: that can only hurt you!).

What's the worse that can happen to you? Maybe you'll have to retake them (in the event that you don't get into any school, but that's not even sure even with 500s on the GREs). I think schools wouldn't mind seeing that you took them twice, and the fact that you would show an improvement would mean that you are motivated hard-working individual.

But that's the worst case scenario. First get ready for the test!

Good luck and give it your best. I don't think you should abandon now.

 

[GiantSteps]

If you do not know this already (you probably do), despite what the other prep companies tell you, the only practice tests which are legitimate are the ones which are put out by the GRE itself. The computer based one which they send you and the former paper based ones which they print together in a book.

Since you have a strong test history from years ago, it sound as if you are capable of doing better. You need to hear this encouragment. Go PizzaBut! You have started to build up a high test anxiety problem which is interfering with your performance. I had this problem myself until I did fairly well in practice and on the real thing which finally kicked the anxiety problem. Try to relax and use the prep tests as a means of familiarizing yourself with the test so that when you actually take it you will feel as if the motions are old habit. Especially time management.

Of course, another important thing to consider (which many people say over and over and which is actually more difficult than it sounds) is trying to pick up on the GRE tricks. I am sure that you have read a number of poster with super high scores write that they look at the questions, right away catch the tricks or question style, and answer right away without trouble.

You could always take the test this week and if you feel you did poorly before the scores appear on the screen, you can cancel them and take the test again. If you feel you did well you obviously can go ahead and see the score. I am pretty sure you will know after taking the test (practice ones included) if you did well or not. Remember, if you are seeing hard questions late in the test, you have done well since the test is adaptive.

Finally, there still is time to prepare more and take the test later but you may be cutting it very close. At least if you have the scores, you can send them and your applications will be complete. Later score may not even make it to the schools in time which would mean even if you did well no one would see them.

I would take the test this week. Spend the remaing days doing some practice questions but not a whole test. Keep trying to relax and convince yourself that you can get through.

 

[PhDshallsee]

The Kaplan test was the most accurate in predicting my scores. It was pretty much right on.

I personally wouldn't take them twice, but that's because I know several people who got into clinical psych programs with less than 1100 on the GREs. What helped them was a strong faculty fit, LORs, GPA, and their personal statement.

 

[psychwanabe]

My scores on each were about 100 pts higher than my practice tests. Go ahead and take it, and apply. My $.02.

I can't agree with GiantSteps about "knowing" how you did before you click to get your final scores. I had no clue. I was so stressed out I was just grateful to be done. Also, I woul never put myself through the GRE and then cancel the test and not get my scores. But that's just me.

Some schools will average your two GRE scores, and I *think* some may take the most recent one. You'd have to call your schools and ask.

I agree that you're working yourself into a tizzy...calm down and breathe! You've worked really hard and you can do this. Good luck!!!

 

[razzled]

And don't worry about being "non-traditional"...there are 2 women over the age of 30 in my cohort of 7...

 

[zeldazelda]

A couple of thoughts. First, I'd say take the test as scheduled and see how you do. I would not recommend taking it and canceling the scores depending on how you feel. I was more stressed after taking it live than I had been after any practice test and yet my Quant score was better on the real test than on any of the practice tests.

Second, it is hard to say whether your practice test scores are indicative of what you will actually get. They seem to be fairly predictive for some but not for others.

Third, have you tried diagnosing where you are having trouble with the Quant portion? My issue tended to be not enough time because I wanted to get every single question 100% for sure right. The tricks do help but not on every question (for me). Once I realized that I had a time issue and it was stressing me out and affecting my concentration, I started approaching it differently -- if a question was going to take me a long time to answer and I could get it down to two answers pretty quickly I would guess between the two. If I really didn't know what to do, I just guessed and moved on thereby allowing more time to figure out questions I could figure out.

Fourth, you've worked hard for this!! Don't let this bump in the road get you frazzled. Do your best on the test and get those apps in.

I'll be thinking happy thoughts for you this week.

 

[PizzaButt]

Thanks for all your helpful replies! I really appreciate them.

I'm going to do the powerprep software all day today and see how that goes.

It's just that if I don't get in anywhere this year, I have no idea what to do with myself for another year and a half until next year's application season. I don't want to go back to my previous career, and my current part-time clinical position doesn't pay well enough to make it full-time. I need a full-time job but don't know what I can get in the psych field (or something related) with a JD and no psych major. It's hard enough to get hired for a non-legal position with a JD, b/c you're perceived as being overqualified.

Any thoughts about this?

 

[BorntoRun]

This may not be a particularly useful response, but it sounds like you're planning to apply to schools this year (e.g., December 1st or 15th due dates for most programs). If that's the case, you don't really have an option about whether or not to take the test in two weeks. If you skip the test, you can't apply to schools this year. Because you sound like you're ready and raring to go in every other way, it sounds to me like you should do as much prep as you can in the next two weeks and then just take it - no other options if you want to apply in this application cycle. And if you don't do well and don't get into the programs you want, you will simply have to re-take it and apply again next year, which is the same as if you skip it in the first place.

Go for it. My final GRE score was easily 100 points higher on the verbal and math each compared to all my practice tests, even the ones given by ETS themselves! With the situation you are in now, it cannot hurt to try, so just give it your best.

 

[GiantSteps]

I can't agree with GiantSteps about "knowing" how you did before you click to get your final scores. I had no clue. I was so stressed out I was just grateful to be done. Also, I woul never put myself through the GRE and then cancel the test and not get my scores. But that's just me.

Maybe, I did not mean exactly, but I would think many people have a good sense of how they have done at the end, especially based on the types of problems presented at the end (hard or easier).

Thanks for all your helpful replies! I really appreciate them.

I'm going to do the powerprep software all day today and see how that goes.

It's just that if I don't get in anywhere this year, I have no idea what to do with myself for another year and a half until next year's application season. I don't want to go back to my previous career, and my current part-time clinical position doesn't pay well enough to make it full-time. I need a full-time job but don't know what I can get in the psych field (or something related) with a JD and no psych major. It's hard enough to get hired for a non-legal position with a JD, b/c you're perceived as being overqualified.

Any thoughts about this?

I know from my friends in law that it is even difficult to switch areas of law (e.g. tax to litigation, or criminal to immigration) and I do not know what type of law you were doing, but isn't there some area of legal advocacy in mental health? At least that would be related and pay higher than what you are doing although not as high as other areas of law.

I am sure you could get a job as a mental health service coordinator or a manager of a residential facility. However, the hours would be long and the pay nothing great in terms of legal salaries. There are also mental health workers in psychiatric hospitals (basically doing direct care) but again the hours and pay are not so great.

 

[toroharo]

The only thing I can say is: take the test and try your best.

You have done everything possible to apply. That's already quite an achievement!! I haven't even finished a single statement......

I echo what many have said: the scores will probably be better in actual than in practice tests. Go in and focus on the questions and not the outcome. No what if's.....

Don't let fear be a stumbling block for what you want so badly.

 

[ny1020]

I bought Barron's for the GRE and it was basically useless except for the math section. I'm pretty strong at math but their review was so thorough that I was stumped sometimes. That review is really good about looking for those tricks that everyone talks about.

On a different note, I wouldn't wait to see how you feel the day of the test to see if you want to cancel your score. My experimental section ended up being a math section. One of the math sections was so hard, much harder than any practice. The other math section was so easy, I felt insulted. I ended up doing very well but to this day I have no idea which section counted and which one was experimental. But because one section was so hard, if I had waited to see how I felt to determine whether or not I canceled it, I would have lost a great math score.

My .02: take it. Honestly, because it's so late in the year, I think you have more to lose by skipping it than taking it and not doing as well as you would like.

Best of luck!

 

[PizzaButt]

So I spent the day doing all the practice problems from the GRE web site and I realized where my weak areas are. The problem is, I have no idea how to improve these.

Verbal: in the analogies section, my sentences are the problem. My sentences make perfect sense, and lead me to an answer, but it is often not the correct answer, b/c my sentence is not the sentence the test makers use, although both seem like they could work. In other words, I am not making the best sentence, though I think my sentence sounds right. Thus, I miss analogies. I do great on the sentence completions and antonyms, so it's not my vocab, but it's my sentences.

Math: I do great on all the problems that require knowing stuff that you can study, such as formulas, etc. but where I miss problems are the ones that require conceptual thinking. The ones where there really isn't a way to study for them. Most of these are not in the quant comp section. In other words, I feel like I've done everything I can study-wise, but where I trip up on math are the types of problems that require more innate mathematical problem-solving ability/conceptual knowledge. I have no idea how to improve in this area.

I don't know how to improve the above areas. I've studied all the material and done practice problems--but the above areas are still tripping me up. Any advice?

 

[RayneeDeigh]

I had the same problems with analogies because I think strangely. I did TONS of practice questions and finally about 24 hours before the big day, it clicked. I don't know how or why, but it did. So just keep doing practice analogies.

By the way, I seem to remember you saying that you were accepted to schools last year but turned them down because you didn't like the area or something. Didn't you have to take the GRE for them?

 

[PizzaButt]

By the way, I seem to remember you saying that you were accepted to schools last year but turned them down because you didn't like the area or something. Didn't you have to take the GRE for them?

Nope, wasn't me. I have never taken the GRE nor have I applied to clinical psych schools.

 

[RayneeDeigh]

Ohh I think I'm getting you confused with ColoradoCutter or something like that. She was a non-trad as well and I think she had applied before. Sorry, I'm all confused lately. lol

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Ohh I think I'm getting you confused with ColoradoCutter or something like that. She was a non-trad as well and I think she had applied before. Sorry, I'm all confused lately. lol

No worries RD....I thought the same thing!

-t

 

[WaitingKills]

First, take a deep breath.

K, I'm in a similar position. I don't know if I'd be considered traditional or not, but I'm 28 and applying for Ph.D's in clinical. I just graduated with a masters in clinical but did it overseas so it's proving difficult. When you are applying put the emphasis on your unique qualities and experiences. I've heard from several people on this board that universities place less emphases on the GRE for those applicants who are older (eg. over 25) AND who have not been studying for a while; which would mean you.

Now take what people are saying in this thread and the one that I did (Upcoming GRE Writers... or something like that)... For most of them, they did better or significantly better on their real test that all of their practice tests. A few people in this thread alone said that they got over 100 points higher on EACH section. That means, that with your practice scores right now you have the definite potential to score around 670Q and 630V. A score of 1300 which is very decent. Others I have heard from got significantly better on their quant but only a little on their verbal. Even still, it looks like you will be above the magic 1200 (a lot of schools apparently use this as a cut off).

I myself did the practice tests last year and scored horribly on them but boosted my mark up about 250 on the real test. I'm doing the GRE again on Wed and am hoping to find the same pattern of practice tests vs. real test (my practice scores have gone up quite significantly this time around).

Lastly, I don't think that you can rely too heavily on the practice tests. I did the powerprep tests 1 and 2 several times within the last week. My verbal stayed pretty similar (within about 40 points) but my quant fluctuated over 150 points within the tests.

Anyway, keep studying the best you can and try to be confident that practice tests generally underestimate what you will really get on the real test.

One last thing to prepare for though. I just found out last week that there is a new type of question on the GRE that started at the beginning of this month. It doesn't look overly stressful as you can only get at most one new verbal question OR one new quant question OR no new question. Just something to be aware of though so it doesn't throw you for a loop if you see one on the exam and didn't expect it. The details are on the GRE website.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

 

[zeldazelda]

...where I miss problems are the ones that require conceptual thinking. The ones where there really isn't a way to study for them. Most of these are not in the quant comp section. In other words, I feel like I've done everything I can study-wise, but where I trip up on math are the types of problems that require more innate mathematical problem-solving ability/conceptual knowledge. I have no idea how to improve in this area.

I don't know how to improve the above areas. I've studied all the material and done practice problems--but the above areas are still tripping me up. Any advice?

Knowing more about the specific types of problems might allow us to help you better. Do they tend to be word problems, algebra, geometry, probability or data interpretation questions? What guide books/test prep have you been using?

I'm a big fan of the Kaplan book for Quant studying as it made all the difference for me. It addressed each of the question areas I mentioned above. If word problems tend to be your issue I have some specific thoughts but don't want to bother typing it all out if that isn't where you need help...