Need some advice =]

[timmah2k]

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Hey guys,

I want to enter medical school, but im self concious about my GPA. I've graduated from an Ivy with a 2.5 GPA, but with my postbac, I brought it up to a 3.03 overall and 3.16 science (thank you for the retake policy!).

My MCAT is a 21N and I plan to retake them in August.

I've got years of research in various fields, worked for a pharm company for a bit, and will start working as an EMT soon.

I'm still taking additional postbac classes over the summer and fall semester.

Do I have a shot? I'm just really nervous, but I so want this.

Thanks.
Steve

 

[Faraaz23]

with a higher MCAT, i'd say so. Some volunteer experience may help too.

 

[FDoRoML]

Do I have a shot? I'm just really nervous, but I so want this.

Thanks.
Steve

Hey Steve,

Though shalt shadow a DO. Most important thing you can do...

your MCAT will improve if you work on it. Most times it's either a lack of enough general knowledge (like if it's been a while since you took those courses!), or a test-taking issue. Practice makes perfect for the MCAT. No, not everyone will attain perfection, but most people who took the courses and have the motivation can eek out a 28-30. 👍

If you want... PM me so we don't have to splatter your stats on the page. If there's a particular area you were low in, I may be able to make suggestions. I brought my MCAT up 8 points with a LOT of effort (nope, it ain't easy). No paid prep course... although I would have taken one if I thought I could afford it along with all those application fees.

FD

 

[OSUdoc08]

Hey guys,

I want to enter medical school, but im self concious about my GPA. I've graduated from an Ivy with a 2.5 GPA, but with my postbac, I brought it up to a 3.03 overall and 3.16 science (thank you for the retake policy!).

My MCAT is a 21N and I plan to retake them in August.

I've got years of research in various fields, worked for a pharm company for a bit, and will start working as an EMT soon.

I'm still taking additional postbac classes over the summer and fall semester.

Do I have a shot? I'm just really nervous, but I so want this.

Thanks.
Steve

Get your MCAT to a 24, and you'll get into a DO school if you apply to enough.

 

[timmah2k]

oops

 

[timmah2k]

Thanks for the advice guys. Makes me feel so much better. I've shadowed a DO for about 50 hrs in his family practice. The experience really opened my eyes. I've also shadowed a PA in the emergency room for about 70-80 hrs.

I'll definately work very hard to get my MCAT scores up. I've taken a Kaplan course and still have the books too, so I'll studied off those. Last time, I went in the test very nervous and got a little panicky when trying to answer the questions. Hopefully next time I'll be more calm since I've been through it once.

I guess last two questions.
1. If I'm taking Orgo II over the summer and taking the MCATs this August, will I be behind the game? If I had a stellar GPA I wouldn't be worrying, but my GPA is far from that.

2. Is it okay to get a letter of recommendation from a PA?

Again thanks very much.
Steve

 

[OSUdoc08]

Thanks for the advice guys. Makes me feel so much better. I've shadowed a DO for about 50 hrs in his family practice. The experience really opened my eyes. I've also shadowed a PA in the emergency room for about 70-80 hrs.

I'll definately work very hard to get my MCAT scores up. I've taken a Kaplan course and still have the books too, so I'll studied off those. Last time, I went in the test very nervous and got a little panicky when trying to answer the questions. Hopefully next time I'll be more calm since I've been through it once.

I guess last two questions.
1. If I'm taking Orgo II over the summer and taking the MCATs this August, will I be behind the game? If I had a stellar GPA I wouldn't be worrying, but my GPA is far from that.

2. Is it okay to get a letter of recommendation from a PA?

Again thanks very much.
Steve

1. No. You can even take Orgo II after acceptance, prior to matriculation.

2. No. Almost all schools require a recommendation from a physician. Several DO schools require a recommendation specifically from a physician before they will accept your application. You have time to shadow one this summer. Consult your state Osteopathic Medical Association for willing physicians.

 

[timmah2k]

Oh I meant in addition to the DO letter.

Thanks alot OSUdoc and everyone else. You've made the process much less painful lol. I guess my plan is to study for my MCATs and finish up my classes while working a bit as EMT. Thank all!

-Steve

 

[OSUdoc08]

Oh I meant in addition to the DO letter.

Thanks alot OSUdoc and everyone else. You've made the process much less painful lol. I guess my plan is to study for my MCATs and finish up my classes while working a bit as EMT. Thank all!

-Steve

Yes, in addition to a DO letter, you certainly can send a letter from a PA, and I encourage it.

 

[FDoRoML]

I guess my plan is to study for my MCATs and finish up my classes while working a bit as EMT. Thank all!

Just fair warning... and it shocked me to find out this very thing from my advisor. Plan on putting in about 300 hrs of study time for the MCAT. Yeah, not a typo. I put in about 180-200 when I tried it before and my advisor said it wasn't enough; she recommends 300 or more hours. Yeesh, I know!

So, that said, it can be done. I worked 70 hrs per week and managed to throw in 330 hrs of study time on top of that... and I'm married... and my husband still recognized me (he did, right??). Anyway, I did about 3-4 hours every weekday evening and the entire day (10 hrs) on Saturdays. I sometimes took Sunday off to enjoy myself, and sometimes just studied 4-5 hours. I spaced it out over 3 months, so it wasn't too horrible.

On those Saturdays... every Saturday after the first 1-2 (when I reviewed material) I took a timed mock practice test. I made myself sit at my dining room table (not so comfortable), not take bathroom breaks in the middle of the section, no food or drink, etc. I did my best to make it like the real thing (even turned on the TV in the other room as background noise distraction!! I took the timed breaks and timed lunch, etc. I ended up doing all the AAMC practice tests, two Kaplan tests, and one other (can't remember which company it was) like this. My goal was to be totally disgusted with the MCAT by the time I got to the real thing... so if you're busy thinking it's annoying because you know it so well, it's harder to get panicky.

Anyway, not to make this a long MCAT strategy thing... but if you have any specific questions just ask.

BTW-- after the MCAT... literally early that Sunday... I flew to Vegas for a few days of vacation. Point being, it sucks, it's a right of passage, and you need to be kind of anal about studying for it... but make sure to reward yourself with one day's break per week and one big hooplah at the end! 🙂

 

[OSUdoc08]

Just fair warning... and it shocked me to find out this very thing from my advisor. Plan on putting in about 300 hrs of study time for the MCAT. Yeah, not a typo. I put in about 180-200 when I tried it before and my advisor said it wasn't enough; she recommends 300 or more hours. Yeesh, I know!

So, that said, it can be done. I worked 70 hrs per week and managed to throw in 330 hrs of study time on top of that... and I'm married... and my husband still recognized me (he did, right??). Anyway, I did about 3-4 hours every weekday evening and the entire day (10 hrs) on Saturdays. I sometimes took Sunday off to enjoy myself, and sometimes just studied 4-5 hours. I spaced it out over 3 months, so it wasn't too horrible.

On those Saturdays... every Saturday after the first 1-2 (when I reviewed material) I took a timed mock practice test. I made myself sit at my dining room table (not so comfortable), not take bathroom breaks in the middle of the section, no food or drink, etc. I did my best to make it like the real thing (even turned on the TV in the other room as background noise distraction!! I took the timed breaks and timed lunch, etc. I ended up doing all the AAMC practice tests, two Kaplan tests, and one other (can't remember which company it was) like this. My goal was to be totally disgusted with the MCAT by the time I got to the real thing... so if you're busy thinking it's annoying because you know it so well, it's harder to get panicky.

Anyway, not to make this a long MCAT strategy thing... but if you have any specific questions just ask.

BTW-- after the MCAT... literally early that Sunday... I flew to Vegas for a few days of vacation. Point being, it sucks, it's a right of passage, and you need to be kind of anal about studying for it... but make sure to reward yourself with one day's break per week and one big hooplah at the end! 🙂

Because we know how knowledgable and useful advisors are.........

My advisor told me I wouldn't ever get accepted to medical school. They have no clue what they are talking about.

 

[FDoRoML]

Because we know how knowledgable and useful advisors are.........

My advisor told me I wouldn't ever get accepted to medical school. They have no clue what they are talking about.

Haha... yeah, most are pretty useless. I just got lucky as hell. She even kept saying "this is going to be your year" and she was right. (I should mention here that she's not from any of the schools I attended.)

I've heard a lot of advisors on UG campuses are pretty mean. Even our UG campus ("our" meaning the Univ I work for right now) has some klunkers. You'd think having an M.D. would be an advantage but he basically laughs at kids and tells them they'll never have a shot at med school and they should just learn a trade or stay home and have babies. Nice, huh?!? What a turd.

At least her advice on which schools I'd have a good shot at was right... as well as her MCAT studying advice (my score went up 4 points from the best of my prior two attempts). If I'd gone to the jerks where I work they probably would have told me I didn't have a shot and I ought to just go to nursing school. Hm, kind of demeaning to nurses, too? I've heard so many horror stories from our undergrads... I feel bad for them. 🙁

 

[ajanedo]

Not that I'm trying to push Kaplan. But their MCAT prep gets some good reviews. I think it helps you dedicate your time to the appropriate areas. But, everyone has there own thing that gets them the score, whether its Examcrackers or studying with a group of pre-meds. Don't give up! I have a friend who's taking her 4th MCAT. Yep, she had to appeal and everything.

 

[sayoc]

Your chance pending on MCAT....

Hey guys,

I want to enter medical school, but im self concious about my GPA. I've graduated from an Ivy with a 2.5 GPA, but with my postbac, I brought it up to a 3.03 overall and 3.16 science (thank you for the retake policy!).

My MCAT is a 21N and I plan to retake them in August.

I've got years of research in various fields, worked for a pharm company for a bit, and will start working as an EMT soon.

I'm still taking additional postbac classes over the summer and fall semester.

Do I have a shot? I'm just really nervous, but I so want this.

Thanks.
Steve

 

[pol pot]

1. No. You can even take Orgo II after acceptance, prior to matriculation.

2. No. All schools require a recommendation from a physician. Several DO schools require a recommendation specifically from a physician before they will accept your application. You have time to shadow one this summer. Consult your state Osteopathic Medical Association for willing physicians.

I dont think it is necessary to get a recommendation from a physician. I have about 6 or 7 recommendations, and all are from PhDs. And none of my interviewers ever mentioned the lack of a MD/DO LOR, except for KCUMB.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

I don't sugar coat things for people because I dont like when they do it for me. As it stands, your chances are slim, to none. As others have said, its riding on the MCAT.

I saw someone mention a 24. A 24 might get you in. If I were you, Id shoot for 26+. trust me, it happens, I went up 9 points when I actually studied for the ****ing test.


Best of luck. We all make mistakes, I certainly did.

 

[timmah2k]

Thanks for not sugar coating it. I realize as my stats stand with a low gpa and very low MCAT I have no chance. So I'm going to study real hard to get my MCAT to 28+. With that score, HOPEFULLY adcoms will give me a chance. Thanks for keeping it real.

-Steve

 

[nvshelat]

2. No. All schools require a recommendation from a physician. Several DO schools require a recommendation specifically from a physician before they will accept your application. You have time to shadow one this summer. Consult your state Osteopathic Medical Association for willing physicians.

I don't think this is true. A LOR from someone who knows you well would, IMO, be better than someone you've only shadowed for a brief period of time.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I dont think it is necessary to get a recommendation from a physician. I have about 6 or 7 recommendations, and all are from PhDs. And none of my interviewers ever mentioned the lack of a MD/DO LOR, except for KCUMB.

I'm not sure why you "don't think" that. It is a REQUIREMENT for a large number of schools. Meaning, your application will not be complete until you send it in.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I don't think this is true. A LOR from someone who knows you well would, IMO, be better than someone you've only shadowed for a brief period of time.

OSU-COM requires a recommendation from a D.O.

If you do not submit this recommendation, you will not be admitted to the school.

There are other schools just like this. I'm sorry that you don't believe it, but it is in fact true.

 

[timmah2k]

Talking about recommendations. I believe that most schools want a committee letter which includes their evaluation of the student as well as 3 recommenders, whether it includes specific people or not.

My question is: should I get a committee letter from my school where I recieved my degree(which is a long time ago), or should get it from the school where im doing my postbac now? The degree school is a better name, but for a eval letter they want a recommendation from a prof at that school. It's been awhile and I don't have any prof that would know me or have any classes I did extremely well in. For my postbac school on the other hand, I have a strong letter from a prof which I have a good relationship with and all my grades there are good.

But I guess it boils down to what school the adcom want an eval letter from. If it were up to me, I'd like to sent 3 different recommendations straight to the schools.

 

[pol pot]

I'm not sure why you "don't think" that. It is a REQUIREMENT for a large number of schools. Meaning, your application will not be complete until you send it in.

This might be true for DO schools, but none of the MD schools have a physician LOR requirement (only one I came across is USUHS). Also out of the 4 DO schools I applied to, only KCUMB had the requirement... and they still accepted me without a physican LOR. NYCOM, UMDNJ-SOM, PCOM do not require one either.

I am complete at all my schools I applied to, am on several WL, and accepted to 2 schools. And I have NONE ZERO physician LORs. All from research or professors. So is it really required?? NO!

 

[pol pot]

OSU-COM requires a recommendation from a D.O.

If you do not submit this recommendation, you will not be admitted to the school.

There are other schools just like this. I'm sorry that you don't believe it, but it is in fact true.

Yes true, but we are correcting your "ALL SCHOOLS REQUIRE ONE" statement.

 

[yasha83]

Yes true, but we are correcting your "ALL SCHOOLS REQUIRE ONE" statement.

That's an...interesting user name you have there.

 

[nvshelat]

OSU-COM requires a recommendation from a D.O.

If you do not submit this recommendation, you will not be admitted to the school.

There are other schools just like this. I'm sorry that you don't believe it, but it is in fact true.

You said all schools. NYCOM, UMDNJ, and PCOM don't require one. OSU-COM doesn't qualify as all schools. Therefore, you are wrong.

 

[scpod]

You said all schools. NYCOM, UMDNJ, and PCOM don't require one. OSU-COM doesn't qualify as all schools. Therefore, you are wrong.

There are only a few schools that don't require a letter from a physician. Those that don't, "strongly" suggest one. The actual requirements are below:

KCOM: Two letters of evaluation: one from a premedical advisor, premedical committee, or a science faculty member and one from a physician (D.O. or M.D.) or a past or present employer

AZCOM: Two letters of recommendation; one must be from a physician (D.O. or M.D.) and the other from a premedical advisory committee or a science professor.

CCOM: Two letters of recommendation; one must be from a physician (strongly recommend a DO, or a MD.) and the other must be from a premedical advisory committee or science faculty member.

DMU: Medical exposure letter written by a physician (D.O. or M.D.) or a nurse or volunteer coordinator describing your patient exposure experiences AND

KCUMB: One letter of evaluation from each of the following:
 Premedical advisor or committee
 Science faculty
 Physician (preferably a D.O.)

LECOM: Letter of recommendation from an osteopathic physician who is not related to the applicant

NSUCOM: A letter of evaluation from an osteopathic physician is also required

NYCOM: Letter of recommendation from an osteopathic physician is not required but is highly recommended

OSUCOM: Letter of recommendation from an osteopathic physician

OUCOM: Letter of recommendation from an osteopathic physician is highly recommended

PCOM: Letter of evaluation from an osteopathic physician is advised, but not required.

PCSOM: A letter from osteopathic physician, who is a member of the AOA, is required.
TUCOM: M.D. or D.O. (preferred) physician letter of recommendation.

UNECOM: Letter of recommendation from an osteopathic physician is highly recommended

TCOM: Letter from an osteopathic physician is strongly encouraged.

VCOM: Completed evaluation form or letter (on letterhead accompanied by a release) from an osteopathic physician – THIS IS REQUIRED

COMP: Letter of recommendation from a physician, preferably a D.O.

WVSOM: Letters of recommendation from an osteopathic physician and from a premedical advisor, a premedical advisory committee, or an approved basic science faculty member.

 

[OSUdoc08]

This might be true for DO schools, but none of the MD schools have a physician LOR requirement
(only one I came across is USUHS). Also out of the 4 DO schools I applied to, only KCUMB had the requirement... and they still accepted me without a physican LOR. NYCOM, UMDNJ-SOM, PCOM do not require one either.

I am complete at all my schools I applied to, am on several WL, and accepted to 2 schools. And I have NONE ZERO physician LORs. All from research or professors. So is it really required?? NO!

Note that this is the pre-DO forum. 😀

 

[OSUdoc08]

You said all schools. NYCOM, UMDNJ, and PCOM don't require one. OSU-COM doesn't qualify as all schools. Therefore, you are wrong.

Suggested/Recommended = Required. If someone suggests that you do something for an application, you do it.

See scpod's post above.

 

[Charlie Bravo]

Not really man... COMP recommends getting a letter from a DO. I only had one from a MD... I got in.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Not really man... COMP recommends getting a letter from a DO. I only had one from a MD... I got in.

N = 1.

Perhaps if your GPA and MCAT were lower, or you were compared side by side with a student who DID have a DO letter, you would not have been so lucky.

 

[nvshelat]

There are only a few schools that don't require a letter from a physician. Those that don't, "strongly" suggest one. The actual requirements are below:

KCOM: Two letters of evaluation: one from a premedical advisor, premedical committee, or a science faculty member and one from a physician (D.O. or M.D.) or a past or present employer

AZCOM: Two letters of recommendation; one must be from a physician (D.O. or M.D.) and the other from a premedical advisory committee or a science professor.

CCOM: Two letters of recommendation; one must be from a physician (strongly recommend a DO, or a MD.) and the other must be from a premedical advisory committee or science faculty member.

DMU: Medical exposure letter written by a physician (D.O. or M.D.) or a nurse or volunteer coordinator describing your patient exposure experiences AND

KCUMB: One letter of evaluation from each of the following:
 Premedical advisor or committee
 Science faculty
 Physician (preferably a D.O.)

LECOM: Letter of recommendation from an osteopathic physician who is not related to the applicant

NSUCOM: A letter of evaluation from an osteopathic physician is also required

NYCOM: Letter of recommendation from an osteopathic physician is not required but is highly recommended

OSUCOM: Letter of recommendation from an osteopathic physician

OUCOM: Letter of recommendation from an osteopathic physician is highly recommended

PCOM: Letter of evaluation from an osteopathic physician is advised, but not required.

PCSOM: A letter from osteopathic physician, who is a member of the AOA, is required.
TUCOM: M.D. or D.O. (preferred) physician letter of recommendation.

UNECOM: Letter of recommendation from an osteopathic physician is highly recommended

TCOM: Letter from an osteopathic physician is strongly encouraged.

VCOM: Completed evaluation form or letter (on letterhead accompanied by a release) from an osteopathic physician – THIS IS REQUIRED

COMP: Letter of recommendation from a physician, preferably a D.O.

WVSOM: Letters of recommendation from an osteopathic physician and from a premedical advisor, a premedical advisory committee, or an approved basic science faculty member.

Nice post. (You forgot UMDNJ-SOM though.)

3/18 (16.7%) don't care, MD/DO; 10/18 (55.6%) prefer DO; 5/18 (27.8%) take DO only.

What would be more interesting to see is how strongly schools stand by their "highly recommended" statement, ie what percentage of those accepted actually have a LOR by an osteopathic physician. By talking to my fellow NYCOM classmates, I can see that atleast for that school, the number isn't high and their "highly recommended" LOR from a DO isn't really true. I mean let's face it, if they really cared about having a DO letter over an MD letter, they'd say the DO should be practicing OMM

In any case, not all schools require a DO only letter, but this info is good to know...

 

[OSUdoc08]

Nice post. (You forgot UMDNJ-SOM though.)

3/18 (16.7%) don't care, MD/DO; 10/18 (55.6%) prefer DO; 5/18 (27.8%) take DO only.

What would be more interesting to see is how strongly schools stand by their "highly recommended" statement, ie what percentage of those accepted actually have a LOR by an osteopathic physician. By talking to my fellow NYCOM classmates, I can see that atleast for that school, the number isn't high and their "highly recommended" LOR from a DO isn't really true. I mean let's face it, if they really cared about having a DO letter over an MD letter, they'd say the DO should be practicing OMM

In any case, not all schools require a DO only letter, but this info is good to know...

Ummm....why?

 

[mshheaddoc]

b/c that is the only difference in DO/MD

 

[OSUdoc08]

b/c that is the only difference in DO/MD

This is a common misperception.