Need some sound advice... any would be appreciated.

[nirvikalpa]

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I was disappointed a couple of weeks ago when I found out that math courses are not included in Osteopathic sGPA, and decided I would probably have to re-take some of my C/C+ classes... I am going to write whatever comes to my mind (I've been thinking of a lot, recently) and then bold what I think is important, or things I am confused about...

Here are my grades:

Gen Bio I: A-
Gen Bio II: B
Gen Chem I: B
Gen Chem II: B
Anat/Phys I: C+
Anat/Phys II: C (retake?)
Genetics: B-
Organic I: C+ (retake?)
Organic II: B
Ecology: B+
Instrum. Analysis: A
Physics I: C+
Physics II: B-
Micro Bio: A
Cell Bio: B-
Biochem: B
BioAnthro: B+
Immuno: A-

sGPA: ~3.1

The only problem I am having is deciding to 1) retake a few courses above, or 2) just take other courses during the summer (this summer) that would be considered science courses in the sGPA, like geology, astronomy, and nutrition? OR should I do a little of both?

I'm just really upset my math minor is not counted in my sGPA. Here are my Math grades:

Calc I: B-
Calc II: A
Calc III: A
DiffyQue's: A-
Statistics: A
Stats/Research: A

These courses would have lifted my sGPA to ~3.6. 🙁

My non-science courses are as follows:

College Writing (H): B+
College Writing II: A
Calc I: B-
Calc II: A
Calc III: A
PhysEd: A
Philosophy I: A-
Cult Anthro: A
First Aid: A
EMT: A
DiffyQue's: A-
Statistics: A
Stats/Research: A
Psych: A
SpeechComm: A
Cult Geo: B
Leadership: C 🙂mad🙂
Psych Adol: A
Human Sex (H): A

nsGPA: ~3.7

cGPA: ~3.3/3.4

So, that's that... 🙁 The backstory to all my questions is that I was planning on applying early to DO schools for 2013 (as early as possible - June/July/August). If I need to retake classes during the summer, I won't receive my grades for these classes until late August, if that. Should I wait until all my grades are set to apply to DO schools, or show on my application that these repeat classes are planned/in progress?

I think the other areas of my application are pretty strong. I am a certified EMT, and have been for the past year and a half. For that year and a half I have worked as an EMT with the Red Cross, including two national deployments (2+ weeks each) - Joplin, MO to assist w/ the tornado damage and health services (I was one of the first 50 volunteers on the ground there), and during Hurricane Irene to White Plains, NY. For the past 6 months I have been a volunteer EMT for my local ambulance squad. I was required to do some time in a hospital setting before even being certified as an EMT, as well. Before my EMT cert, I volunteered with the Red Cross an additional 3 years as a disaster services volunteer (I have a strong letter coming from my supervisor), assisting with local fires, flooding, etc. I was a science/math tutor at my college for 2 years (totaling ~120 hours).

Besides that, I have around 100 hours shadowing two DO's (same office, they work together). However, their letter for me is dated a year ago. Is this still acceptable, or shall I shadow again and get a newer letter? I have been invited by a MD to shadow, and I was thinking about it... although, if I need another DO letter, I would go that route.

So yeah... any help would be appreciated. I am beginning to freak out a little bit. My MCAT score should be in in a week (yeah, I was one of those 1/28'ers), and from there I should really know where I stand.

 

[ilubse7en]

its hard to tell without MCAT score, i think if you get 29 or above on the MCAT, you'll be okay with that gpa. i wouldn't repeat a C, its better to show that you did well on the upper division science courses than repeating the lower division science courses imo, hope that helps 🙂

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

With a decent Mcat score you should be fine. However with your higher BCPM than Sgpa you might be more competitive for MD schools atm.

 

[DocGodfather]

With a decent Mcat score you should be fine. However with your higher BCPM than Sgpa you might be more competitive for MD schools atm.

I agree, since the sGPA will go up with the math classes. Unless you're set on being a DO, do well on the MCAT and apply to both DO and MD schools.

 

[ManBroDude]

Who knows, with a decent MCAT you might be a candidate for MD schools (3.6 BCPM, 31+ MCAT).

edit: beat me to it.

 

[nirvikalpa]

I have to be honest... I feel a lot more compelled to apply to Osteopathic school than Allopathic, as majority of the doctors in my life have been Osteopathic, and I agree more with the philosophy of it (to cut the long story short). If I do end up getting a good MCAT score, perhaps I won't be so opposed to applying Allopathic, but I also want to point out on my AAMC's I averaged a 26-29 (w/ a heavy verbal), and for now I am looking solely at Osteopathic school.

 

[Postal]

I have to be honest... I feel a lot more compelled to apply to Osteopathic school than Allopathic, as majority of the doctors in my life have been Osteopathic, and I agree more with the philosophy of it (to cut the long story short). If I do end up getting a good MCAT score, perhaps I won't be so opposed to applying Allopathic, but I also want to point out on my AAMC's I averaged a 26-29 (w/ a heavy verbal), and for now I am looking solely at Osteopathic school.

With your current grades, I think you have a good chance to get into a D.O. school with a solid MCAT. The letters that you have from a year ago should work just fine. I don't think it's worth shadowing again and bothering those doctors for a new letter.Remember to apply in a timely manner.
It's nice to see someone who considers going to an osteopathic school as first choice .

 

[donkeykong1]

Given your stats, my advice is to apply broadly and early to both MD and DO schools. By next year I predict the average gpa/mcat for allo would be around a 3.7/31, established osteo schools at 3.6/30, newer osteo schools at 3.5/28. good luck.

 

[Rickettsia]

I agree that the letter should work just fine. If anything, having it from a year ago will demonstrate your long-term interest in osteopathic medicine.
You should definitely submit the application as early as possible. Better to list the classes as planned or in-progress than waiting until August. Just make sure to keep updating the schools when you receive new grades.
Depending on the MCAT score, you could think about more science classes at that point. If you have time to take more classes over the summer, I think it would be a good idea to do so, as long as you are confident that you will do well in them. Are you taking science classes right now that could raise the science GPA in time to submit the primary? I'm not sure if you can retake ochem 1 after passing ochem 2, but any science classes you think you can get A's in can only help. Too bad the math classes don't count, but they still will look good.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Given your stats, my advice is to apply broadly and early to both MD and DO schools. By next year I predict the average gpa/mcat for allo would be around a 3.7/31, established osteo schools at 3.6/30, newer osteo schools at 3.5/28. good luck.

.....
I predict something more like..
Allo: 3.7/31.5, Established Osteo: 3.6/28.5, AverageOsteo: 3.5/27, Newer schools 3.4/25.5.

 

[Goro]

STRONGLY suggesat retaking. That's the fastest way to make your sGPA more competetive. I'm just not impressed by science courses that wil not help you in medical school, so nix the geology.

I was disappointed a couple of weeks ago when I found out that math courses are not included in Osteopathic sGPA, and decided I would probably have to re-take some of my C/C+ classes... I am going to write whatever comes to my mind (I've been thinking of a lot, recently) and then bold what I think is important, or things I am confused about...

Here are my grades:

Gen Bio I: A-
Gen Bio II: B
Gen Chem I: B
Gen Chem II: B
Anat/Phys I: C+
Anat/Phys II: C (retake?)
Genetics: B-
Organic I: C+ (retake?)
Organic II: B
Ecology: B+
Instrum. Analysis: A
Physics I: C+
Physics II: B-
Micro Bio: A
Cell Bio: B-
Biochem: B
BioAnthro: B+

sGPA: ~3.1

The only problem I am having is deciding to 1) retake a few courses above, or 2) just take other courses during the summer (this summer) that would be considered science courses in the sGPA, like geology, astronomy, and nutrition? OR should I do a little of both?

about it... although, if I need another DO letter, I would go that route.

So yeah... any help would be appreciated. I am beginning to freak out a little bit. My MCAT score should be in in a week (yeah, I was one of those 1/28'ers), and from there I should really know where I stand.

 

[nirvikalpa]

STRONGLY suggesat retaking. That's the fastest way to make your sGPA more competetive. I'm just not impressed by science courses that wil not help you in medical school, so nix the geology.

Would you recommend I take Nutrition or Kinesiology though, since those fit more with medicine? I will talk to my local CC and see if I can take A&P II there without taking their A&P I, only my undergrad's.

I agree that the letter should work just fine. If anything, having it from a year ago will demonstrate your long-term interest in osteopathic medicine.
You should definitely submit the application as early as possible. Better to list the classes as planned or in-progress than waiting until August. Just make sure to keep updating the schools when you receive new grades.
Depending on the MCAT score, you could think about more science classes at that point. If you have time to take more classes over the summer, I think it would be a good idea to do so, as long as you are confident that you will do well in them. Are you taking science classes right now that could raise the science GPA in time to submit the primary? I'm not sure if you can retake ochem 1 after passing ochem 2, but any science classes you think you can get A's in can only help. Too bad the math classes don't count, but they still will look good.

I never thought of the idea that the old letter may show my dedication to osteopathic medicine.

I will submit my application early, and list re-take courses as in-progress.

I am not currently taking any science classes - I am just volunteering for my ambulance squad, and just finished studying for and taking my MCAT in late January... figured I should focus all my time on that. As for class schedules, some CC's around my area have a 'summer quick week' which lasts 4-5 weeks in the summer, from May to June, so there is a possibility I may receive grades before I finish my apps, which would be awesome. I will have to look into that and see what classes are available (watch nothing good or useful be available until Summer Session 1 [the longer one] or something 🙁 )

I am unsure myself if I will be able to re-take ochem 1, or a&p 2. I will see what my local CC's say.

I am just not looking forward to taking labs again, which I am stuck doing because my ungrad listed the grades as 'LB' and included its grade within the lecture grade. 🙁

Thanks for your reply! 🙂

 

[CopToEM]

I'll be honest, I didn't read this entire thread so you may have already heard some of this.

I don't see the reason to retake the courses until you've applied for one cycle. You're going to end up 'wasting a year of life' - so to speak - why not bank that year on getting in vs. retaking courses you might have never had to retake? Of course, you could do both, but the reality is you could take new courses that will help you in medical school instead.

Rather than retake those courses, what I would do is sign up for some interesting courses and do well in them. I.E. Immunology, Microbiology, etc.

I know people with far worse outlooks than yours who have done just that and got in. It all comes down to a smart application and a look at your extracurriculars to see if you have everything in line there.

The thing that will really push you over the edge is a 24+ MCAT. It would be a no brainer at that point... don't retake anything.

You are not the first applicant with C's in organic, physics, and a&p. You will not be the last. Many of those who came before you now call themselves Dr.

Apply smartly, be realistic with your applications, and realize that the quickest route between A and B is a straight line. Looks like you've taken care of A, don't take the long road to B unless you have to. Apply early and broadly.
My 2 cents.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I think 3.1 for DO is a bit low, especially without any strong PB work. The MD 3.6-3.7 is much more competitive. I say either way, take a few UL classes, only retake the Cs if you can retake them easily... if you can, do it... if not, take UL you're interested in...

 

[nirvikalpa]

Rather than retake those courses, what I would do is sign up for some interesting courses and do well in them. I.E. Immunology, Microbiology, etc.

I know people with far worse outlooks than yours who have done just that and got in.

The thing that will really push you over the edge is a 24+ MCAT. It would be a no brainer at that point... don't retake anything.

You are not the first applicant with C's in organic, physics, and a&p. You will not be the last. Many of those who came before you now call themselves Dr.

Apply smartly, be realistic with your applications, and realize that the quickest route between A and B is a straight line. Looks like you've taken care of A, don't take the long road to B unless you have to. Apply early and broadly.
My 2 cents.

Thank you, that all makes sense. I may apply for some "fun" sciences courses, such as Virology, Pathology, Histology, etc. I forgot to put "Immunology" under my science courses already taken, so thanks for reminding me... I got a A-.

I think 3.1 for DO is a bit low, especially without any strong PB work. The MD 3.6-3.7 is much more competitive. I say either way, take a few UL classes, only retake the Cs if you can retake them easily... if you can, do it... if not, take UL you're interested in...

I did look over my sGPA more, and the more and more I looked at it, the more I realized it was a lot of my 'basic' sciences that dragged me down. Immunology, Microbiology, Biochemistry, Cell Bio, and my other high-level science courses I took (I went level 210+, with many 300-levels) I ended up with ~3.4 sGPA (with no C's)... a little bit better. Will admissions notice this?

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Probably not... sorry 🙁 I have something like 215 semester credits, and I could barely get places to notice the 80cr of PB work at a 3.83... I received 5 interviews, went to 4, had 2 waitlists, and 2 acceptances... They are more likely going to look at the totals not at each individual course... depends on the school though... I don't think you're out of the running, and you can go into AACOMAS and enter all your coursework (for free) and it will calculate your GPA, then you can transfer that data to next year, and the year after 😉 all without applying... 😉

 

[CopToEM]

Thank you, that all makes sense. I may apply for some "fun" sciences courses, such as Virology, Pathology, Histology, etc. I forgot to put "Immunology" under my science courses already taken, so thanks for reminding me... I got a A-.



I did look over my sGPA more, and the more and more I looked at it, the more I realized it was a lot of my 'basic' sciences that dragged me down. Immunology, Microbiology, Biochemistry, Cell Bio, and my other high-level science courses I took (I went level 210+, with many 300-levels) I ended up with ~3.4 sGPA (with no C's)... a little bit better. Will admissions notice this?

I don't remember the statistic but adcoms, on average, basically look at your file for less than a few minutes. (Do people do studies on EVERYTHING? Apparently).

They'll notice two glaring things: overall GPA trend across your college career (up or down) and your GPAs. They may notice any standout academic work you've done which could, potentially, include your coursework.

Your upper level coursework would be something you would interject into an interview or even in your personal statement. Certainly, your coursework (should you continue into histology, virology, etc.) reflects your understanding of the basics just as much as your performance in those basics. What I mean to say is, clearly you could not get an A- in Immunology if you did not understand General Biology. I hope that makes sense.

3.1 isn't overly competitive for DO school... I certainly never intended to imply that. However, it can gain you an acceptance with all other factors being positives.

Further, actually telling in your admissions materials that you chose to apply to DO school with a lower sGPA versus applying to MD with a higher sGPA says a lot about your intentions.

Many on this forum agree that it's the overall trend of GPA that means the most. How many medical students started out their undergrad careers on a rocky path? As many as those that didn't, I'm sure. If your GPA is being brought down by your first few semesters but you have excelled in your higher level courses... you're fine. And you have. Will there be those schools who cut you off because of numbers alone? Yes. You didn't really want to go there anyway though.

 

[physcigirl27]

I don't remember the statistic but adcoms, on average, basically look at your file for less than a few minutes. (Do people do studies on EVERYTHING? Apparently).

They'll notice two glaring things: overall GPA trend across your college career (up or down) and your GPAs. They may notice any standout academic work you've done which could, potentially, include your coursework.

Your upper level coursework would be something you would interject into an interview or even in your personal statement. Certainly, your coursework (should you continue into histology, virology, etc.) reflects your understanding of the basics just as much as your performance in those basics. What I mean to say is, clearly you could not get an A- in Immunology if you did not understand General Biology. I hope that makes sense.

3.1 isn't overly competitive for DO school... I certainly never intended to imply that. However, it can gain you an acceptance with all other factors being positives.

Further, actually telling in your admissions materials that you chose to apply to DO school with a lower sGPA versus applying to MD with a higher sGPA says a lot about your intentions.

Many on this forum agree that it's the overall trend of GPA that means the most. How many medical students started out their undergrad careers on a rocky path? As many as those that didn't, I'm sure. If your GPA is being brought down by your first few semesters but you have excelled in your higher level courses... you're fine. And you have. Will there be those schools who cut you off because of numbers alone? Yes. You didn't really want to go there anyway though.

I've heard this too, but I've never been sure if they were discussing pre-interview or post-interview...