Long time spectator here and now I wanted to ask for information (thoughts on quality, reputation, location ect) on the psych programs at UTSW and University of Utah. Not much is available on here so maybe someone in the know wouldn't mind sharing their opinions on these two. Thanks
Need some thoughts and insight on UTSW and Utah psych
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I interviewed throughout the SE USA. UTSW is a great program that I debated on ranking #1 vs #2 for awhile. I ended up ranking it 2, but had I not gotten 1, I would have been very happy there. It is an excellent program with diverse sites and opportunities.
I have no info on Utah, sorry.
I have no info on Utah, sorry.
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UTSW is a very biologically focused program. It is also like Mayo and Cleveland Clinic in that they have a good reputation in other branches of medicine but not in psychiatry. And it's in the middle of the desert, in Dallas.
I do not have a personal experience with Utah and I do not want to post stuff about a program from what I've only heard so I'll refrain from doing that.
I do not have a personal experience with Utah and I do not want to post stuff about a program from what I've only heard so I'll refrain from doing that.
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Wow! I don't think we could have more different opinions. While UTSW is no MGH, I'd put it's psychiatric reputation up at the top of SE programs including Vanderbilt, Duke, MUSC, etc. In Texas, it is the most highly regarded psychiatric training program. This coming from a life-long TX resident who trained in TX. I would put it with a biological lean like all TX programs, but it's program director is a psychoanalyst.
I'm completely confused as to Dallas being in the desert. It is not a desert at all, especially by TX standards.
OP, TexasPhysician's comments are all extremely reasonable. Partially growing up there, Dallas has a pretty temperate climate. Snows about once a year. It's flat, but it's no desert. Very cosmopolitan and afforable city, family and single-friendly.
I have good friends doing psych at UTSW. It's a great program with a great reputation. It's not cambridge health alliance in terms of an analytic bent or anything, but I wouldn't say it's out of the norm in terms of its biological lean. Residents start seeing therapy patients during second year. Diverse patient population, including the biggest VA mental health institution in the country, as well as a large children's hospital, huge county hospital, and a couple of private hospitals. The program director is well-loved by the residents as well.
I have good friends doing psych at UTSW. It's a great program with a great reputation. It's not cambridge health alliance in terms of an analytic bent or anything, but I wouldn't say it's out of the norm in terms of its biological lean. Residents start seeing therapy patients during second year. Diverse patient population, including the biggest VA mental health institution in the country, as well as a large children's hospital, huge county hospital, and a couple of private hospitals. The program director is well-loved by the residents as well.
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Maybe things had changed?
I definitely did not hear that about UTSW from any of the people I've been speaking to about residency options in the past one year. I certainly did not hear that from anyone I'd met on the interview trail (most people had impressions similar to mine), and I certainly did not find any reason to think otherwise when I interviewed there. At least I would definitely not rank it higher than MUSC where also I interviewed. I suppose we just have to agree to disagree here. I did not visit Vanderbilt or Duke so I can't comment there. Also, by desert, I wasn't referring to the climate as much as the fact that Dallas was seemingly located in the middle of nowhere with the city itself not offering anything to redeem that.
I definitely did not hear that about UTSW from any of the people I've been speaking to about residency options in the past one year. I certainly did not hear that from anyone I'd met on the interview trail (most people had impressions similar to mine), and I certainly did not find any reason to think otherwise when I interviewed there. At least I would definitely not rank it higher than MUSC where also I interviewed. I suppose we just have to agree to disagree here. I did not visit Vanderbilt or Duke so I can't comment there. Also, by desert, I wasn't referring to the climate as much as the fact that Dallas was seemingly located in the middle of nowhere with the city itself not offering anything to redeem that.
If Dallas is in the middle of no where, then so is every city outside of the northeast or California? Or were you referring to natural beauty of the land? Admitedly Dallas is not a scenic locale but is an excellent city to live in. And the program is not eccentrically biologically focused, like is apparently more the case at WashU. Vanderbilt is a really nice place for what it's worth.
I can't speak to medical students' opinions and impressions about program quality and prestige on the interview trail. The more salient point is that there is good training to be had at a lot of programs.
I can't speak to medical students' opinions and impressions about program quality and prestige on the interview trail. The more salient point is that there is good training to be had at a lot of programs.
Thanks for all the feedback, I guess not many people know anything about Utah which is why it's so hard to get information on it. I heard Parkland hospital wasn't that great (death in the psych ER, crowded, run down facility) but Dallas is building building a new 1.3 Billion dollar hospital in its place. I noticed all the psych residents are from Texas, either med school or undergrad, so I'm not sure if that means the program is geared more towards those with Texas ties or only people with Texas ties tend to rank UTSW. I also noticed by searching here that Utah had one spot not fill in the match last year- not sure what that means really, is that a red flag?
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Parkland is a great learning resource.
UTSW has many TX ties because it is a very prestigious program compared to others in the south, high relative pay, low cost of living, almost all psych fellowships, and a great metropolitan city. Almost every TX psych applicant plans to interview there.
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UTSW actually has a very solid national and international reputation in psychiatry, and was influential in producing STAR*D, the Texas Medication Algorithm Project, which for better or worse have really changed the treatment of major mental disorders in many states.
They're not all from the TX, but UTSW in general has a lot of strong residents from TX who want to stay local. As for the death, I asked a friend about that a while back, it was actually a more complicated story than the one-liner. Apparently a very psychotic and aggressive patient came to the ER for chest pain, where a triage nurse sent him to the psych ER without being medically cleared. Once there, he wouldn't cooperate and never mentioned his CP, and then suffered a massive MI. I'm not sure in a situation like that how feasible an alternative outcome would have been for the psych department in that context. Either way the whole psych ER and ER workflow changed after that incident.
As for Parkland itself, it's a typical large volume county hospital (i.e. old, not pretty). The new Parkland though sounds ridiculously nice. They're also building a brand new University Hospital as well.
As for Parkland itself, it's a typical large volume county hospital (i.e. old, not pretty). The new Parkland though sounds ridiculously nice. They're also building a brand new University Hospital as well.
Thanks for the clarification into that, I wondered the circumstances and the Dallas News doesn't paint the best picture of the situation. I will say UTSW sounds like a great program, I am worried about #1 the traffic in Dallas and #2 the freaking heat (ugh) I hear its hot like a desert in Dallas!!! Not sure if those are real reasons to discount a program though.
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I'll chime in as someone who's spent tha majority of my life in Utah but in residency in a Texas program (not UTSW). I don't think Utah not filling last year was a red flag. They actually declined to interview me (which was odd as I have strong Utah ties and had no red flags) -- slightly ironic. Anyway, that's a long story but ends out pretty awesome. Anyhow, I'd say the program is pretty strong. I was acquainted for a brief time with Dr. Carlson, one of the APDs and he was/is a great guy.
If perhaps you had any specifics you were curious about perhaps I could address those more in depth with anything I may know.
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I went to medical school not too far from UTSW, and I'd say their reputation was pretty strong. I never heard they were a weaker or undesirable program. I didn't apply there because I didn't want to live in Dallas, although I disagree with the categorization of Dallas as a desert. It's a huge, pretty cheap city with a ton of job prospects, and it's pretty green for Texas.
I applied to Utah but wound up cancelling my interview mainly because I wasn't enthusiastic about remaining a religious minority -- going from the Bible Belt to Utah didn't seem like that much of a change. I heard SLC was majority non-LDS, but I did some research and discovered that the greater SLC population (city + suburbs) remains majority LDS. I've heard it's a good program, although it's at least as intense as my program, which is according to SDN reviews considered to be more intense compared with your average psych program. As for not filling, it happens and probably mean that much.
My thoughts, though, are that Dallas and SLC seem like very different places. Which one would you prefer? Huge city versus smaller city. Mountains versus pretty flat with limited outdoor activities (my big objection to a place like Dallas).
I applied to Utah but wound up cancelling my interview mainly because I wasn't enthusiastic about remaining a religious minority -- going from the Bible Belt to Utah didn't seem like that much of a change. I heard SLC was majority non-LDS, but I did some research and discovered that the greater SLC population (city + suburbs) remains majority LDS. I've heard it's a good program, although it's at least as intense as my program, which is according to SDN reviews considered to be more intense compared with your average psych program. As for not filling, it happens and probably mean that much.
My thoughts, though, are that Dallas and SLC seem like very different places. Which one would you prefer? Huge city versus smaller city. Mountains versus pretty flat with limited outdoor activities (my big objection to a place like Dallas).
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Traffic and climate matter a lot to me. Dallas has horrible traffic and oppressive heat along with surprisingly bitterly cold stretches (featuring the local frozen precip specialty: ice storms) in the winter. To each his own, but I took a pass on an interview there for those reasons alone.
How much time have you spent in Dallas? Your opinions of very different than mine regarding climate. Dallas is dry heat in the summer, so while it does reach triple digits, it's not humid like you have in the northeast or in Houston for example. As someone who has lived in Texas as well as NY and Boston, I would take a hot Texas day over a hot humid Boston summer day. Air conditioning in stores is a bit aggressive, which actually makes indoor activities during the summer irritatingly cold sometimes, but all apartment complexes have a pool, and there are several nearby lakes etc that make summer pretty fun actually and very tolerable. Hail does happen, but not usually as part of "cold stretches" you mention. Hail happens when its relatively mild out but cold up high in the atmosphere (there was a big hail storm in June 2012, for example). As a resident, you'll of course be stuck inside most of the day, which makes the weather slightly less relevant. Winter is mild, freezes intermittently but not for prolonged stretches, including a good amount of really nice weather. Weather.com says its 63 degrees today. Winter is much better in Texas than in the midwest or northeast without a doubt. Boston is bitter cold for like 6 months in a row. Spring and Fall are great, like they are most places. Leaves do change color in the fall.
Traffic depends on where you live and when you commute. Dallas is a relatively small core with infinite suburbs. For people who live out in certain east/west suburbs, the morning is easy and the afternoon can be brutal. People commuting from North Dallas or Addison have a reasonable commute thanks to the usually pretty brisk Tollway. Most residents though live in trendier more central areas of Dallas (e.g. "uptown") with reasonable commutes (~15 min). I don't live there now but plan to probably go back. It's a great place to work, live, raise family, etc
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I don't know much about Utah, but I'm pretty sure their patient population is not as diverse as UTSW.
As for me, UTSW would be my top rank in Texas for many reasons.
1) High pay in a state with no state income tax and really affordable cost of living.
2) All the ACGME fellowships are available.
3) Strong reputation.
4) Program director has an awesome beard (and seems to be quite protective of his residents).
Dallas is the biggest confounding factor when it comes to ranking. If you like big hair and the Dallas Cowboys, it sounds like heaven.
As for me, UTSW would be my top rank in Texas for many reasons.
1) High pay in a state with no state income tax and really affordable cost of living.
2) All the ACGME fellowships are available.
3) Strong reputation.
4) Program director has an awesome beard (and seems to be quite protective of his residents).
Dallas is the biggest confounding factor when it comes to ranking. If you like big hair and the Dallas Cowboys, it sounds like heaven.
