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[Thebeyonder]

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Hello all,
I was checking out gaswork and was looking at Connecticut and the New York area in specific. Some of the trends I noticed were that in CT most groups supervise crna's ~70% of the time. The salaries in CT ~$180. Now in NY, and in upstate in particular, the anesthesiologists supervise crna's ~10% of the time. The salaries in upstate NY ~$280. Interesting difference seeing that the cost of living in CT is astronomical, so that the 180 is going to go quickly compared to the cost of living in upstate NY where the 280 is going to go so much farther.
My question is this, the salary figures posted on gaswork is that the salary given by the hospital, and then the groups divide up another portion amongst themselves. So in essence the CT group that lists a salary of 180 may make more than the NY group that lists a salary of 280, b/c the CT groups have more to divy up at the end of the year?
I am just curious b/c that is a huge difference in income just based on location and I was wondering if it is real or not. I also want to predict what kind of crib I can get when I'm done. I really want a house that I can add gym and basketball court to the back yard, maybe a track, who knows? But I need to be able to afford this..

 

[toughlife]

would you like a marina and yatch as well? How about an airstrip where you can land your Learjet 45?

 

[Monitor]

Hmmm,

The Hartford Group starts ppl at mid 100's for a couple years and then partners you at mid 300's. So, are you saying elsewhere ppl start at upper 200's and then get the boost to partner at double that? 😍

Sounds great, but hard to believe. 🙄 😉

 

[MAC10]

Hmmm,

The Hartford Group starts ppl at mid 100's for a couple years and then partners you at mid 300's. So, are you saying elsewhere ppl start at upper 200's and then get the boost to partner at double that? 😍

Sounds great, but hard to believe. 🙄 😉

Mid 100's for a couple of years. Thats hard to believe.

 

[redstorm]

associates start in the mid 100s then after being around for some time they have an option of being a parter which is mid 300s or so

 

[Orchard]

associates start in the mid 100s then after being around for some time they have an option of being a parter which is mid 300s or so

That's absurd.....my first job out of residency, I was making $300k. If you accept anything less than $250k, someone is taking advantage of you.

 

[rs2006]

Hi

I just had a couple of questions--

1. How does compensation for Anesthesiologists work in practice like the one described above-- namely that 75% of the MDs time is spent supervising CRNAs-- does the MD bill for the CRNAs case (ie the case is "double billed" once with the MD's charges and once for the CRNAs, or does the MD simply pay the CRNA from the money for the case and then (the MD) keeps the rest)? Any thoughts?

2. How does compensation for MD Anesthesiologists work in the 14 states in which there is NO PHYSICIAN SUPERVISION requirement-- do the MDs simply bill for the cases that they do and the CRNAs bill for their own cases? Any thoughts would me much appreciated. Thanks

That's absurd.....my first job out of residency, I was making $300k. If you accept anything less than $250k, someone is taking advantage of you.

 

[redstorm]

That's absurd.....my first job out of residency, I was making $300k. If you accept anything less than $250k, someone is taking advantage of you.

exactamundo.........

 

[Thebeyonder]

So the salaries listed on gaswork are just a base salary and then at the end of the year the partners divi up any extra?
rs2006, start your own thread please, I don't want my thread to dwindle into another *****ic crna vs md/do debate.

 

[supahfresh]

would you like a marina and yatch as well? How about an airstrip where you can land your Learjet 45?

it's yacht, unless of course he has a schooner. i have an 8 foot kayak.

 

[pej933]

Salary should not be such an issue to you at this point. You should know that anesthesiologist make good money, and averages depends on regions. You don't want to make the lower range, go to another region.

Take West Coast for example. Starting salaries are in the 250K to 300K. If I told you that a seasoned anesthesiologist I know makes around 700K, would you believe me? Well, he does. He is in his late fifties, though, and has an awesome house on the hills and the best hours I've ever heard of.

If you work hard towards your goals, you'll find the right job with the right pay. The money will come, worry about becoming the best anesthesiologist you can be.

 

[Thebeyonder]

Thanks pej, I think I needed to hear that.

 

[Monitor]

Salary should not be such an issue to you at this point. You should know that anesthesiologist make good money, and averages depends on regions. You don't want to make the lower range, go to another region.

Take West Coast for example. Starting salaries are in the 250K to 300K. If I told you that a seasoned anesthesiologist I know makes around 700K, would you believe me? Well, he does. He is in his late fifties, though, and has an awesome house on the hills and the best hours I've ever heard of.

If you work hard towards your goals, you'll find the right job with the right pay. The money will come, worry about becoming the best anesthesiologist you can be.

$700 for General or Pain practice?

 

[toughlife]

Take West Coast for example. Starting salaries are in the 250K to 300K. If I told you that a seasoned anesthesiologist I know makes around 700K, would you believe me? Well, he does. He is in his late fifties, though, and has an awesome house on the hills and the best hours I've ever heard of. [/B]

By saying that, you just increased the competitiveness of the specialty 10-fold.

 

[redstorm]

I know a guy who makes 1.1 million as an anesthesiologist..

(of course he has like 50 guys working for him who are making 200k)

 

[redstorm]

By saying that, you just increased the competitiveness of the specialty 10-fold.

If you really want to be in a cush speciaty with the cash go into radiology or pathology.. Hell those guys, especially radiology dont get their hands dirty ever.. and they make BANK... there is no physical labor involved save getting up off your cushiony chair and going to lunch.. it is a really academic specialty.. and pathology make their own hours.. damn.... and they can make some cash as well..

 

[pej933]

He's not pain, just general, but, runs the group, I think.

As for competitiveness for anesthesiology, it might be higher now, but, I'm willing to bet it's mostly a spill over from all the other lifestyle residencies, switching over to gas because it was easier to match. I would expect some of these people to discover all of a sudden that gas wasn't really for them.

 

[lvspro]

it's yacht, unless of course he has a schooner. i have an 8 foot kayak.

Wrong again, I think he meant snatch named marina🙂

 

[2ndyear]

1. How does compensation for Anesthesiologists work in practice like the one described above-- namely that 75% of the MDs time is spent supervising CRNAs-- does the MD bill for the CRNAs case (ie the case is "double billed" once with the MD's charges and once for the CRNAs, or does the MD simply pay the CRNA from the money for the case and then (the MD) keeps the rest)? Any thoughts?

As I understand it, at my rudimentary CA-1 level, you bill for 100% of each of the up to 4 CRNA's that you supervise. The money comes in to the group and it's split up accordingly. How accordingly is determined by the group, be it a set salary (most CRNA's are paid this way in the care team model), or the get what you bill model. This is unlike in academics where you can only bill 50% for each of up to 2 residents that you supervise.

2. How does compensation for MD Anesthesiologists work in the 14 states in which there is NO PHYSICIAN SUPERVISION requirement-- do the MDs simply bill for the cases that they do and the CRNAs bill for their own cases? Any thoughts would me much appreciated. Thanks.

Again, as I understand it, in those 14 states it works no differently than in any other state that CRNA's are allowed to work independent of an anesthesiologist. And this is every state in the nation. If a case is done in an all CRNA hospital in the back hills of North Carolina (a non opt out state), the CRNA bills and collects the anesthetic fee. They do, however, have to have an MD/DO/DPM/DDS 'supervise' them. In this case it would be the surgeon, who collects no extra money for this supervision. If the case were done in Fargo, ND, the CRNA does the case bills and collects, but does not need the surgeon supervision. Note that if Fargo General happens to have a group with MD's and CRNA's, chances are the MD's are running the show. In this case it wouldn't matter. MD's will still be supervising.

 

[redstorm]

im in a md only practice.. Im just going by what i hear from friends.

but i think when you work with a crna you can only bill for medical direction only which decreases your compensation for the case.. ( It used to be you got full pay as if you did the case yourself). It also depends on the insurance. If its medicare.. You can only bill for medical direction if you work with a crna.

same thing if you work with 3 crnas.. bill for medical direction.. ANd depending on the arrangement I believe the crna can bill the insurance directly for doing the case.. But it depends on state/ group arrangements etc...

It gets sticky because CRNAs demand that they be involved in decision making so you really cant restrict their practice too much .. so for example. intraop if they decide to give surgical anesthesia via an epidural catheter along with a general and after extubation the level goes high.. and patient doesnt do well.. WHose fault is it? It gets sticky... my previous job i supervised crnas...

 

[redstorm]

1. How does compensation for Anesthesiologists work in practice like the one described above-- namely that 75% of the MDs time is spent supervising CRNAs-- does the MD bill for the CRNAs case (ie the case is "double billed" once with the MD's charges and once for the CRNAs, or does the MD simply pay the CRNA from the money for the case and then (the MD) keeps the rest)? Any thoughts?

As I understand it, at my rudimentary CA-1 level, you bill for 100% of each of the up to 4 CRNA's that you supervise. The money comes in to the group and it's split up accordingly. How accordingly is determined by the group, be it a set salary (most CRNA's are paid this way in the care team model), or the get what you bill model. This is unlike in academics where you can only bill 50% for each of up to 2 residents that you supervise.

2. How does compensation for MD Anesthesiologists work in the 14 states in which there is NO PHYSICIAN SUPERVISION requirement-- do the MDs simply bill for the cases that they do and the CRNAs bill for their own cases? Any thoughts would me much appreciated. Thanks.

Again, as I understand it, in those 14 states it works no differently than in any other state that CRNA's are allowed to work independent of an anesthesiologist. And this is every state in the nation. If a case is done in an all CRNA hospital in the back hills of North Carolina (a non opt out state), the CRNA bills and collects the anesthetic fee. They do, however, have to have an MD/DO/DPM/DDS 'supervise' them. In this case it would be the surgeon, who collects no extra money for this supervision. If the case were done in Fargo, ND, the CRNA does the case bills and collects, but does not need the surgeon supervision. Note that if Fargo General happens to have a group with MD's and CRNA's, chances are the MD's are running the show. In this case it wouldn't matter. MD's will still be supervising.

In the 14 states.. i believe the crnas bill the insurance directly.. I dont believe the surgeon has to sign off on them

 

[foxtrot]

Do most of the jobs out there involve supervision of CRNA's? With more and more people going into anesthesia I wonder if there is going to start to be competition between CRNAs and Anesthesiologists in the future when the job market starts to slow down? I personally do not want to supervise CRNA's because the reality is that they do want they want to in the OR, even though you can still get sued for it. I am at a residency program where CRNA's have alot of power and sometimes I do not take an am break because I worry they will do something to mess up my case which has happened several times. Not to go off on a tangent but after reading some of these posts I just cannot hold my comments any longer. I think it is absurd that CRNA's can practice independently under a surgeon in the OR. Patients need to have a choice between a CRNA and a Anesthesiologist just like you have the choice of going to a PA or a Nurse Practitioner. I bet if most people had the choice of putting their lives in the hands of someone with a bachelors degree and 2 years of training versus someone who has up to 12 years of training in physiology and pharmacology I think most people would choose the latter. The problem is that most people don't know that they they are going to be taken care of by a CRNA. I know when I hear a CRNA come up and pre-op a pt before taking them back to the OR, they identify themselves as their "anesthesia provider". Most people would probably assume that they are an Anesthesiologist. It is so funny how we are so concerned about patient rights and HIPPA yet we are not exactly forthcoming when it comes to anesthesia. I have had patients ask me if I was a CRNA or a doctor and tell me that they do not want their anesthesia to be done by a CRNA. I am sure there are people out there who do not care but I think people should be made more aware of who their healthcare providers are. Just my two cents (and my venting).

 

[kmurp]

That's absurd.....my first job out of residency, I was making $300k. If you accept anything less than $250k, someone is taking advantage of you.

I'm a partner in an anesthesia group and I make less than 250K. That doesn't include benefits.

 

[Monitor]

I'm a partner in an anesthesia group and I make less than 250K. That doesn't include benefits.

Big city? Small city? Big group? Small group? What region of the country?

 

[kmurp]

Big city? Small city? Big group? Small group? What region of the country?

Sorry about the delayed reply. I haven't visited in awhile.. To answer your question, I'm in upstate NY working in a medium sized city. We have two hospitals and 16 MD/ 7.7 CRNA FTE. With benefits, our total compensation is around 325K.

 

[engineer]

hi. how many hours a week do you have to work for the 325k? you mean benefits are 75k?

 

[CambieMD]

hi. how many hours a week do you have to work for the 325k? you mean benefits are 75k?

It seems to me that some folk here are way too focused on income. Income is based on many factors. It is a waste of time to try to predict what you will make when you finished,especilly if you are very, "early" in your training.

CambieMD

 

[kmurp]

hi. how many hours a week do you have to work for the 325k? you mean benefits are 75k?

Benefits are 75-85K per year. $40k retirement, malpractice, dental optical,disability and health insurance and meeting reimbursement along with a few misc. like cell phones OR shoes internet access. How many hours per week? I don't really know- it depends on how often I'm on call that week I guess. I'm in by 6:45 and out on average by 4Pm. Some days earlier and, of course, some later. If I'm on call (1-3 times per week), I work much later.

 

[engineer]

kmurp, do you get any vacation with that salary? or is it part of the benefits?

 

[kmurp]

8 Weeks off, but many of us don't take quite that much as our salary is a bit low. We book cosmetic cases (facelifts implants etc.) out of the "normal" schedule and kind of depend on a vacation person picking them up for extra income. Even so, its only 1 or 2 part time days during the week off.
We could increase our income by gradually moving to an all CRNA driven practice at a ration of 1:3 or 1:4. Our two hospitals are small though. By moving to that model, we would have to decrease our physicians and call would, we feel, be a burden.
That said, with our structure, we are having trouble talking new grads into coming here. Part of it is the area, part is the salary and part is the shortage. Residents seem much more informed about $ than I was and most seem to want that $400k/year job. Not offering it to them leads them to suspect we're not being honest- I know that some groups indeed are not forthcoming to their non-partners.

 

[nitecap]

Actually in many states CRNA's can bill seperately if there employer allows or if they are an independent contractor. Say in the case of medical direction where the MD may be medically directing but the CRNA may be an independent contractor. Here the MD bills 50%, and CRNA 50%. The MD directs 4 CRNA's at a time. SO if they are running 4 rooms he gets at 50% each to equal 200%.

Opposed to MD doing case by theirself 100% of that 1 case, but not able to do as many in a day.

However many CRNA's work for a MD run group in the Anesthesia Care Team model say. The CRNA then aggrees to sign his billing right over to the group that the CRNA is doing cases for. So the MD takes home 50% MD and 50% CRNA pay so they take the 100%.

For example a Lap Chole lets say is about $425 reimburst thru self pay and maybe private insurance. So the MD directing the CRNA bills 100% since they have the CRNA's billing rights. So they bill $850 for the case. And lets say they do 4 self pay lap chole's so they bill $3400 for all the anesthesia given.

The CRNA makes about say 130K working 11months a year, 40hrs/week. So for the day that CRNA gets paid give or take $600-700.

So the MD takes in 3400-650= $2750 for one CRNA that they directed. Now multiply this x directing 4 crnas at once = $11,000. Not a bad days work.

Believe me I know that not all things are picture perfect like this scenario, and I know that the group has operating cost ect ect. Just trying to give a easy example of a picture perfect cash paying customer, and I know reimburstments esp for Medicare are much lower.

My my MDA friend works for a huge group with over 100 CRNA's so thats puts their operating cost just for CRNA salary over 14million. They have more than 60 MDs as well. But then again they do administer prob. about 40% or more of the gas in Houston.

 

[davvid2700]

Actually in many states CRNA's can bill seperately if there employer allows or if they are an independent contractor. Say in the case of medical direction where the MD may be medically directing but the CRNA may be an independent contractor. Here the MD bills 50%, and CRNA 50%. The MD directs 4 CRNA's at a time. SO if they are running 4 rooms he gets at 50% each to equal 200%.

Opposed to MD doing case by theirself 100% of that 1 case, but not able to do as many in a day.

However many CRNA's work for a MD run group in the Anesthesia Care Team model say. The CRNA then aggrees to sign his billing right over to the group that the CRNA is doing cases for. So the MD takes home 50% MD and 50% CRNA pay so they take the 100%.

For example a Lap Chole lets say is about $425 reimburst thru self pay and maybe private insurance. So the MD directing the CRNA bills 100% since they have the CRNA's billing rights. So they bill $850 for the case. And lets say they do 4 self pay lap chole's so they bill $3400 for all the anesthesia given.

The CRNA makes about say 130K working 11months a year, 40hrs/week. So for the day that CRNA gets paid give or take $600-700.

So the MD takes in 3400-650= $2750 for one CRNA that they directed. Now multiply this x directing 4 crnas at once = $11,000. Not a bad days work.

Believe me I know that not all things are picture perfect like this scenario, and I know that the group has operating cost ect ect. Just trying to give a easy example of a picture perfect cash paying customer, and I know reimburstments esp for Medicare are much lower.

My my MDA friend works for a huge group with over 100 CRNA's so thats puts their operating cost just for CRNA salary over 14million. They have more than 60 MDs as well. But then again they do administer prob. about 40% or more of the gas in Houston.

pretty hard to be supervising 4 rooms.. i think cms rules you cant supervise more than 2.. if you are supervising 4 rooms you will be running around all day.. man will you lose some weight.... opens you up to malpractice law suits.. just not good practice

 

[jetproppilot]

pretty hard to be supervising 4 rooms.. i think cms rules you cant supervise more than 2.. if you are supervising 4 rooms you will be running around all day.. man will you lose some weight.... opens you up to malpractice law suits.. just not good practice

Most anesthesiologists will disagree with your opinion.

 

[Noyac]

Most anesthesiologists will disagree with your opinion.

Here's one.
My previous job had us medically directing as many as 6-10 rooms. It was crna supervision and we only billed for the crna and not the MD supervision. Sometimes we would be in a room while medically directing another 2-3 rooms.

 

[nitecap]

pretty hard to be supervising 4 rooms.. i think cms rules you cant supervise more than 2.. if you are supervising 4 rooms you will be running around all day.. man will you lose some weight.... opens you up to malpractice law suits.. just not good practice

Actually CMS allows 1:4 under medical direction. The MD does have conditions for payment however known as the TEFRA 7 or Tax equalization and Fiscal Responsibiliy Act which are:

1-performs pre anesthetic assessment
2-prescribes anesthesia plan
3-participates in demanding portions... inductions and emergence but only has to be there, not actually push agents or intubate
4-Ensures procedures preformed by qualified individual
5-monitors the course of anesthetic at freq intervals
6-remains physicaly present and available to treat emergencies
7-provides indicated post anesthesia care

MD alone inclusively documents in med record that the conditions set forth have been satisfied.

So yes if these are met, then the MD may medically direct CRNA's, AA's 1:4.

He then may get 50% base units for each care, plus face time spent total on all 4 cases. 15minutes of face time = 1unit. SO if all 4 cases last 1 hr then the MD only bills 1 total hour of face time wether all time was spent with one pt or 15 min with each ect.

David are you an anethesia resident? Seems like you would be farmiliar with this stuff if so?

 

[zippy2u]

David, sounds like you work at one of those 20th century hellhole things we call hospitals. Bastions of mind blowin' inefficiency, smelly, periodically punctuated by wailing of lifeless human life form in staid beige rooms. Transition away from that model and into outpatient anesthesia, and run your 4 CRNAs to 1 doc churnin' 30-50 cases /day. Cross clamp, drips and bypass will only be distant nightmarish memories. As Emeril says ------BANG---- fear is your enemy,speed is your friend... Regards -----Zip

 

[jetproppilot]

David, sounds like you work at one of those 20th century hellhole things we call hospitals. Bastions of mind blowin' inefficiency, smelly, periodically punctuated by wailing of lifeless human life form in staid beige rooms. Transition away from that model and into outpatient anesthesia, and run your 4 CRNAs to 1 doc churnin' 30-50 cases /day. Cross clamp, drips and bypass will only be distant nightmarish memories. As Emeril says ------BANG---- fear is your enemy,speed is your friend... Regards -----Zip

gotta agree with ole Zipster...David2700's opinion will hold our profession to the archaic, inefficient, poorly run academic system.

With no benefit to patient care.

David2700 proclaims 1:2 supervision, with more than that,

"taxing" the anesthesiologist.

Gimme a f ukking break.

Take your opinion to your academic chancellor, David.

Your opinion doesnt hold water out here in the trenches.

 

[jetproppilot]

pretty hard to be supervising 4 rooms.. man will you lose some weight.... opens you up to malpractice law suits.. just not good practice

Do you have literature supporting that d umbass opinion?

 

[militarymd]

I'm always 4:1 and will go up as necessary.

I trust my anesthetists to give me a ring for important things. They chart vital signs and give fluids as well as I do....sometimes, I think better.

 

[davvid2700]

Do you have literature supporting that d umbass opinion?

I dont have literature to support driving a car blindfolded is not a good idea either.. but I just know its not a good idea

 

[davvid2700]

I just enjoy doing my own cases.. I enjoy pushing my own drugs.. I have never had a job supervising crnas.. I chart my own vitals, i give my own fluid.. i waste awayin the room the whole day and so do my colleagues.. I take my breaks between cases.. Ive been at it for 2 years.... I do triple aaa my self.. I do thoracotomies myself.. The Or nurses step up and so does the anesthesia tech.. They are at out beckon call. damn the tech even takes our luncho orders and gets it.. Hey having 2 crnas doing my the work for me would be nice.. but wouldnt be as fun...

just my opinion.. call it dumass if you want jet

 

[militarymd]

I dont have literature to support driving a car blindfolded is not a good idea either.. but I just know its not a good idea

Nothing wrong with driving a car blindfolded if the car is on rails and there is no cross traffic.

 

[davvid2700]

Nothing wrong with driving a car blindfolded if the car is on rails and there is no cross traffic.

(shaking head) HUH? is that how they drive down in alabama on rails with no cross traffic?

 

[jetproppilot]

I just enjoy doing my own cases.. I enjoy pushing my own drugs.. I have never had a job supervising crnas.. I chart my own vitals, i give my own fluid.. i waste awayin the room the whole day and so do my colleagues.. I take my breaks between cases.. Ive been at it for 2 years.... I do triple aaa my self.. I do thoracotomies myself.. The Or nurses step up and so does the anesthesia tech.. They are at out beckon call. damn the tech even takes our luncho orders and gets it.. Hey having 2 crnas doing my the work for me would be nice.. but wouldnt be as fun...

just my opinion.. call it dumass if you want jet

Expressing your enjoyment of doing your own cases verses implying that supervising more than 2 rooms out of danger concerns are two completely different subjects.

 

[militarymd]

(shaking head) HUH? is that how they drive down in alabama on rails with no cross traffic?

You start with an analogy, so I use an analogy to help you understand. I guess you don't understand, so I will clarify.

We, in Alabama, drive like everyone else.

My analogy is used to illustrate that supervising 4 CRNAs is not similar to driving blindfolded, but more like riding on rails....when it is OK to do other things other than warming a stool and charting vitals....2 things that I freely admit I do not enjoy.

I would rather be speaking to patients, to other physicians, doing blocks in the recovery room.....even starting IVs on the ward than chart vital signs.

CRNAs let me do all those things more efficiently.

 

[davvid2700]

..when it is OK to do other things other than warming a stool and charting vitals....2 things that I freely admit I do not enjoy.

I would rather be speaking to patients, to other physicians, doing blocks in the recovery room.....even starting IVs on the ward than chart vital signs.

You will be speaking to so many people you will speak your way out of a job.. Not you but the rest of the lot who are 20 years away from being in our shoes now.

If i had advice to give to people applying now, I would tell them please dont go into anesthesia if dont wanna sit on that stool all day long and monitor stable patients. Because if you dont wanna do this and just wanna sign charts, thats what is going to give the profession away.

 

[militarymd]

If i had advice to give to people applying now, I would tell them please dont go into anesthesia if dont wanna sit on that stool all day long and monitor stable patients. Because if you dont wanna do this and just wanna sign charts, thats what is going to give the profession away.

See, we are completely different.

My advice to young medical students is that if they want to sit in a room and chart vitals, do not go into anesthesia....become a CRNA or AA to help anesthesiologists, so that the MD can function as a MD.

 

[militarymd]

d2700,

I can certainly understand why you would want to sit in a room. Giving breaks to folks and sitting in a room is the only time during the day when my job becomes easy....so I understand why one would want to do that all day.

But why would you say it takes a fully trained physician to chart vital signs. Anywhere else in the hospital, fully trained physicians do not chart vital signs, they review them, as I do, so why should it be any different in the OR.

 

[davvid2700]

d2700,

I can certainly understand why you would want to sit in a room. Giving breaks to folks and sitting in a room is the only time during the day when my job becomes easy....so I understand why one would want to do that all day.

But why would you say it takes a fully trained physician to chart vital signs. Anywhere else in the hospital, fully trained physicians do not chart vital signs, they review them, as I do, so why should it be any different in the OR.

I do everything you do plus I sit in the room all day and do what i was trained to do. I see my patients preop, i prescribe anesthetic plan, I deliver the anesthetic, I see patients post operativelly, I answer their questions and their families questions. I meet with hospital committee when need be. we have a chief; he does his own cases, plus he does all of the OR managing, dealings with hospital etc. So if you dont wanna chart vital signs and stay in the room because you think this is not physicians work and its too much of a bother , somebody else will, namely the nurses and thats what they are doing and they are convincing important people that you get paid too much and you are really not needed.. So I would say, get in the room and chart some vitals, put the ng tube down and sit on that stool in sheer boredom and deliver the anesthetic because if YOU dont, somebody else will..

 

[davvid2700]

d2700,

IBut why would you say it takes a fully trained physician to chart vital signs. Anywhere else in the hospital, fully trained physicians do not chart vital signs, they review them, as I do, so why should it be any different in the OR.

How did you get your training? DID you instantly supevise crnas as a resident? personally I did not so I guess thats where i get the idea that staying in the room and being a vigilant physician comes from. Isnt that the motto of the ASA. You cant be vigilant if you are outside the operating room in a "meeting." WHich is code word for "on the internet", "surfing porn" in the cafeteria getting fatter or doing everything else that they shouldnt be doing.