Neurointerventional radiology

[lumbering]

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Assuming one wishes to do NIR, what is the best route? I know a few neurogists who have had difficult matching neuroradiology fellowships. Is it best to do a combined 7-year Neuroradiology program at Hopkins/NYU/CC, etc? How competitive are these programs? How assured is one of being able to do NIR from either a typical neuro or rads residency?

I'm currently a 3rd year student. I was originally more interested in neurology, but I'm strangely attracted to reading films. Procedures are cool too. I'll give my stats so that you can better advise me:

Unranked med school
average 1st/2nd year grades
Step 1: 270
I did research for about 5 months in med school (traumatic brain injury) but did not publish or present.
Mediocre personality/likability/charisma

If I was going to do a regular neurology or radiology residency, I would prefer neurology. It would be pretty tough for me to do radiology simply for a better chance to do NIR.

thanks in advance,

lumbering

 

[Nerdoscience]

I'm pretty sure there are several other threads you could search about this very topic, but the general answer from those is as follows: There are advantages and disadvantages of all three way to get to this field.

Neuro IR (through Radiology) gives you the most experience interpreting neuroimaging. Also, most fellowships are through Radiology departments. But, many Radiology departments do not have admitting rights, so some other service would likely be taking care of your patients.

Endovascular Neurosurg is good because you can go from the suite to the OR if necessary. Obviously, it is not easy to match into Neurosurg, and the residency is a lot rougher than the other two options.

Interventional Neurology is through Neurology. Very few programs are Neurologist-run yet, but there is a strong trend for Radiologist-run programs to not only accept, but to preferentially accept, strong Neurologists into their fellowships.

All take about the same time, give or take a year.

 

[neurosign]

http://www.svin.org

Society for Vascular and Interventional Neurology

Stay tuned on the next annual meeting and updated list of fellowships that accept neurologists (more than 20 such programs at last count).

This is an exciting time for interventional neurology! Refer to previous posts by me and others for more information regarding training pathways. The above website should be used as official resource for training, links to guidelines, and research news.

 

[lumbering]

http://www.svin.org

Wow! thanks's neurosign! I'll follow this website closely.

 

[hans19]

In general the candidates that have the least difficulty matching the fellowship are those from radiology or neurosurgery background, but these are more competititive residencies to match, initially.

It is much more difficult for an equally qualified neurologist to be accepted to a fellowship, but it can be done. But again neurology is the less difficult match, initially.

On Auntminnie, there was a neurology fellow who did INR at a prominent midwestern fellowship who was very frustrated with his training experience. I don't know if it was related to his skill level or related to the fact that he was a neurologist, but during his two years training, he complained that he got zero hands on time.

If you haven't started residency, I would strongly take this into consideration.
If you do a radiology or neurosurgery residency, you can literally walk into an INR fellowship. The chief neurology resident, sharp guy, at my institution had a really tough time getting any attention from most INR fellowships when he applied. He already had an neuro critical care fellowship lined up, and was applying for 2 years ahead of time. Ultimately, he didn't get any interviews so he's sitting out and applying again next year.

These are just my personal observations.

 

[Docxter]

Neuro IR (through Radiology) gives you the most experience interpreting neuroimaging. Also, most fellowships are through Radiology departments. But, many Radiology departments do not have admitting rights, so some other service would likely be taking care of your patients.

Not necessarily true. Nowadays, many interventional and neurointerventional radiologists admit to their own service. I know we did at the two places that I trained. Plus it is locally dependent whether you have an open ICU or closed ICU, whether the NIR wants to deal with admissions, local hospital politics, etc. That said, majority of patients in NIR are consult patients from neurosurgery, a lesser proportions from neurology, and then the occasional patient from IM, ortho, vascular surgery, and the patients will remain on the respective services.

 

[pcguy2]

I'm pretty sure there are several other threads you could search about this very topic, but the general answer from those is as follows: There are advantages and disadvantages of all three way to get to this field.

Neuro IR (through Radiology) gives you the most experience interpreting neuroimaging. Also, most fellowships are through Radiology departments. But, many Radiology departments do not have admitting rights, so some other service would likely be taking care of your patients.

Endovascular Neurosurg is good because you can go from the suite to the OR if necessary. Obviously, it is not easy to match into Neurosurg, and the residency is a lot rougher than the other two options.

Interventional Neurology is through Neurology. Very few programs are Neurologist-run yet, but there is a strong trend for Radiologist-run programs to not only accept, but to preferentially accept, strong Neurologists into their fellowships.

All take about the same time, give or take a year.

Is there really preference for neurologists? I've been reading some NIR requirements and all only take radiology and neurosurgery residents. Am I looking at the wrong fellowship?

 

[neurosign]

Many INR programs have not yet updated the information found on their websites. Until that is done, you should personally contact the program directors to see if they consider neurologists, especially if you will be applying in the next couple of years. You will be pleased to find out that a lot of programs train neurologists, the list being longer than what is currently found on the SVIN website.

 

[doxtyp]

Thanks for the website, neurosign. It cleared up few thingss for me regarding the topic.
http://www.svineuro.org/fellowships/default.asp?id=20 - I am delighted to find out that neurologists can freely go into NIR after neuroICU fellowship. My impression from the beginning was that one has то strictly go thorugh radiology in order to be able to apply for NIR. Now I see I can proceed with neurology and at certain point "upgrade" myself to NIR.
Great!

 

[f_w]

I am delighted to find out that neurologists can freely go into NIR after neuroICU fellowship.

It doesn't seem to be quite so 'freely'. Yes, a number of fellowships are willing to accept neuros, but certainly not all of them.

Now I see I can proceed with neurology and at certain point "upgrade" myself to NIR.
Great!

I would suggest that you try to talk to some people who have gone the neuro --> INR pathway and get a feeling how easy or difficult it in fact is.

 

[doxtyp]

It doesn't seem to be quite so 'freely'. Yes, a number of fellowships are willing to accept neuros, but certainly not all of them.




I would suggest that you try to talk to some people who have gone the neuro --> INR pathway and get a feeling how easy or difficult it in fact is.

That's true. I didn't want to create impression that I think it is easy. I am just glad to know that not only radiology grads can apply there. Neurologists can do it too.

Anyone has experience applying? I'd appreciate if you could share! Thanks