Neuroscience PhD Programs

[jpii]

Can anyone comment (positive or negative) on the following schools with regard to their neuroscience PhD programs? I'll be applying this year.

Stanford
Berkeley
UCSF

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[StanfordGirl]

Can anyone comment (positive or negative) on the following schools with regard to their neuroscience PhD programs? I'll be applying this year.

Stanford
Berkeley
UCSF

UCSF/Stanford are both excellent Neuroscience PhD programs--I investigated both quite extensively when making my MSTP decision. UCSF has a broader range of researchers and a larger neuroscience program, but Stanford also has some amazing researchers and is, in my opinion, stronger in some Neuroscience areas (sensory neurobiology, neuroplasticity for example). One UCSF PI told me that UCSF has more diversity in the quality of researchers--they have many Neuroscience labs and some PI's are "stars" while others do important fundamental work but are not as well-recognized. He said that Stanford does not have this diversity because of its smaller program--almost all the neuroscience faculty recruited to Stanford are the top in their field. I am not sure if this is true or not, but it sounds plausible. If you are not certain which sub-field of Neuroscience you are most interested in, I think UCSF is the best choice because more diverse opportunities are availble.

Berkeley has a decent Neuroscience program but from what I have seen it's not stellar. I think they now have a joint program with UCSF's MSTP.

Are you applying MSTP or PhD only?

 

[jpii]

Thanks! I realize this is a MSTP forum, but I'm only applying to the PhD alone. And I don't have a definite angle as far as focus goes, so it sounds like UCSF might be a bit better if it's broader.

What's the best way to find out avg GRE/GPAs for each program? Is this published, or do you just have to call individual departments?

 

[mbess481]

My friend goes to UCSF Neuroscience graduate school, and he researched the programs extensively before matriculating. He felt like the most opportunities were at UCSF and he is very happy with his decision.

 

[stwei]

What does it mean to perform extensive research?

 

[mbess481]

What does it mean to perform extensive research?

It means whatever you want it to mean, for yourself and your own process. For him it included the following:

1. He visited each school, spoke with as many grad students as he could, and met as many members of the faculty as he could.

2. He assessed his interests and tried to find the school with the most opportunities in his areas of study.

3. He networked with as many grad students/faculty in his area of study as he could. He tried to get objective opinions from third parties on each program. He went to as many poster sessions and presentations as he could while at SfN in the years preceding his matriculation. Going to SfN can be a great way to meet people and get involved.

4. He gave the process as much time and thought as he could.

UCSF is widely regarded as one of the best places to study Neuroscience. The other two schools you mentioned are also both excellent choices. You really can't go wrong with any of them.

 

[jpii]

One thing that seems pretty incredible about UCSF's program is the quality of students. Not only do they not appear to have a single foreign graduate in the program, but nearly every student went to a top undergrad school.

http://www.ucsf.edu/neurosc/currentstudents.html?undefined

I hate to betray my ignorance, but what is SfN?

 

[tofurious]

Not only do they not appear to have a single foreign graduate in the program

Thank goodness people still determine the quality of a program by the number of foreign graduates. At one point in time it was feared that ALL graduate students would be foreign because of how turned off American students are about graduate education.

SfN = Society for Neuroscience, and world expos for neuroscience.

 

[Neuronix]

Top grad schools (just like top PIs and post-docs) always get as many American students as they want. As an independant measure (not trying to be a rankings ***** here), UCSF is #1 for Neuroscience by USNews.

 

[jpii]

At one point in time it was feared that ALL graduate students would be foreign...

At the undergrad I attend, nearly all graduate students are foreigners.

I didn't mean to imply that foreign students cause the program to be of lower quality, but rather low quality programs tend to attract (or fill spots with) foreigners.

 

[MacGyver]

At the undergrad I attend, nearly all graduate students are foreigners.

I didn't mean to imply that foreign students cause the program to be of lower quality, but rather low quality programs tend to attract (or fill spots with) foreigners.

I find that assumption highly dubious. MIT has a very high % of foreigners in all their graduate programs, and they have some of the best departments in the world.

If you took ALL american science graduates vs ALL foreign science graduates, the foreign science graduates usually win, due to sheer numbers. For every american science grad, there are 100 foreigners. Therefore, the foreigners that actually make it into an american program tend to be "better" than the american science grads. I dont know where you got the idea that most of the best science students are American. Thats a patently false assumption.

 

[jpii]

I dont know where you got the idea that most of the best science students are American. Thats a patently false assumption.

Absolutely unbelievable... How in the world can you interpret my statement, "I didn't mean to imply that foreign students cause the program to be of lower quality" to mean exactly the opposite of its facial meaning?

That's patently absurd logic.

 

[Vader]

As a current student in UCSF's MSTP and Neuroscience graduate program, I can tell you that I have had a great time so far. The neuroscience core classes are very strong and offer a broad background in molecular, cellular, developmental and systems neuroscience. The quality of both the students and the faculty is amazing and it is really an honor to take classes with and interact with them during the program retreat, journal club, seminars, etc. Recently, the program further reduced the number of required classes because of some overlap with the med school neuroscience curriculum, so that is good news for MSTP students.

I think you can get an idea of the quality of work coming out of UCSF labs by taking a look at publications. One thing that I noticed when applying was the extensive number of collaborations among different UCSF faculty. There is truly a collegial atmosphere here in that labs share data, work on projects together, some students have dual-PI or interdisciplinary projects, etc. Though my research is in the area of developmental neurobiology, I may also be delving into some physiology and behavior by collaborating with other labs here at UCSF. In fact, the new Mission Bay campus is directly geared to facilitate these types of collaborations. For example, one building houses labs investigating genetics, development, and behavior.

We actually do have foreign students in the program, including one in my class. She is one of the smartest and hardest working students in the class.

I would encourage anyone who is considering UCSF to talk with current students and faculty here. I would also be happy to answer any questions about UCSF's MSTP or Neuroscience program.

 

[tedrik]

Has the Mission Bay campus already been completed? Also, is UCSF planning on moving the current faculty into larger spaces or are they focusing on recruiting new investigartors?

 

[MacGyver]

Absolutely unbelievable... How in the world can you interpret my statement, "I didn't mean to imply that foreign students cause the program to be of lower quality" to mean exactly the opposite of its facial meaning?

That's patently absurd logic.

Uhhh...this is what you said:

I didn't mean to imply that foreign students cause the program to be of lower quality, but rather low quality programs tend to attract (or fill spots with) foreigners.

this implies that there is some correlation between "quality" of a school and the # of foreigners. Thats absolute bull**** and you know it.

Number of foreigners in a school has absolutely ZERO correlation with how good the school is.

 

[lynk]

my supervisor tells me, are not the best nuro schools. by that it means the publications from the schools are not at the top or better said as not well recognized as top contributers to the field. however that may change given time.

 

[USIMGgrad]

Don't worry tofurious gets a red pepper stuck up his a$$ everytime you mention foriegn graduate. He cannot resist the temptation.

I find that assumption highly dubious. MIT has a very high % of foreigners in all their graduate programs, and they have some of the best departments in the world.

If you took ALL american science graduates vs ALL foreign science graduates, the foreign science graduates usually win, due to sheer numbers. For every american science grad, there are 100 foreigners. Therefore, the foreigners that actually make it into an american program tend to be "better" than the american science grads. I dont know where you got the idea that most of the best science students are American. Thats a patently false assumption.

 

[tofurious]

Don't worry tofurious gets a red pepper stuck up his a$$ everytime you mention foriegn graduate. He cannot resist the temptation.

Obviously, USIMG has looked repeatedly to know what's there.

 

[USIMGgrad]

Come on. You really have a chip on your shoulders when it comes to FMG's. Give it some slack pal.

Obviously, USIMG has looked repeatedly to know what's there.

 

[tofurious]

I wouldn't call it a chip. Many people confuse "best of the world" with "rest of the world". While people like to argue that the FMG/foreign grad student in issue could the former, chances are he/she is the latter. That is the huge problem in both residency and graduate school, and perhaps more so in graduate school because not as many US college grads go to grad school for a science PhD nowadays due to the relatively low stipend and the low prospect of a truly better job after getting that PhD. There aren't any more good foreign grad students than US grad students, and the Harvards and the MITs will have taken most of the top foreign grad students - not counting those who go to the European system - that the students left for even the number 11-number 20 grad schools are only mediocre students from outside of the US taking spots originally intended for good to mediocre US students who chose not to go to grad school. If you can't understand that, your anatomical analogy will have come full circile with your shoulder right below your gluteus - and your head you know where.

 

[Neuronix]

Enough flaming please. Thanks. I think everyone has said their peace and if you need to take it to PM I suggest you do so. If you have something logical and coherent, without name calling, to add to the discussion about IMGs PM me and I'll consider it.

 

[jpii]

Uhhh...this is what you said:
this implies that there is some correlation between "quality" of a school and the # of foreigners. Thats absolute bull**** and you know it.

I can see you're having a lot of trouble understanding a very simple sentence, and I'm not quite sure how I can make it any clearer to you. Looking back at some of your more recent posts reveal this isn't the first time you've had trouble following a conversation. Let's see if you can keep up here as I retrace.

1. I'm not *implying* that "there is some correlation between 'quality' of a school and the # of foreigners." I expressly stated it!

2. Just in case there was any ambiguity in my first post regarding what that correlation is, I completely clarified it by writing:
a. foreign students don't cause the program to be bad (i.e. foreign students are not bad scientists); but
b. low quality programs attract or fill spots with lots of foreigners.

3. Then you managed to get it exactly backwards.

4. I clarified my post again by pointing out that you misunderstood.

5. But, alas, you still failed to get it.

It's funny, in a sad sort of way, to see you struggle with this, but I'm just not sure what else I can do to help you out?

 

[Neuronix]

That's it--End of discussion. The current discussion is a complete sidetrack for the op's question anyway. I hope the op was able to gain the insights they need to make the best decision for them.