New MD schools vs. DO Schools?

[ChrisMack390]

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I have a low GPA but tons of clinical experience and experience with under-served populations. Based on a lot of the chance calculators, SDN threads I've been reading, and my pre-med adviser, I am right on a cusp where I am competitive at most or all DO schools but reaching for most or all MD schools.

I am a New Jersey resident, which means I may have a better shot at Cooper (which I would love to attend). There is also a new school opening up at Seton Hall, to which the first class will matriculate when I plan to matriculate. I would also be interested in Hofstra and Quinnipiac.

What are peoples thoughts on some of these newer MD programs? I think there is risk in attending a new school, though they are obviously accredited and all. In terms of education quality and residency competitiveness, is the general consensus that it would be better to attend one of these or something like UMDNJ or MSUCOM?

 

[slopes23]

I have a low GPA but tons of clinical experience and experience with under-served populations. Based on a lot of the chance calculators, SDN threads I've been reading, and my pre-med adviser, I am right on a cusp where I am competitive at most or all DO schools but reaching for most or all MD schools.

I am a New Jersey resident, which means I may have a better shot at Cooper (which I would love to attend). There is also a new school opening up at Seton Hall, to which the first class will matriculate when I plan to matriculate. I would also be interested in Hofstra and Quinnipiac.

What are peoples thoughts on some of these newer MD programs? I think there is risk in attending a new school, though they are obviously accredited and all. In terms of education quality and residency competitiveness, is the general consensus that it would be better to attend one of these or something like UMDNJ or MSUCOM?

This question would be better served and answered in the Pre-Allo subforum. There are sitting adcom members that post there and can give you more sound advice and more numerous perspectives then what you will find here.

 

[ChrisMack390]

I posted here by accident 🙁

Would a mod mind moving this for me?

 

[MadRadLad]

It really depends what you do overall. Based on when i've spoken to PDs, they say that there is a degree of uncertainty when it comes to taking students from new schools, but that's not necessarily going to make it impossible to match in a competitive field or program. You may have to just do a little more in terms of proving you're a solid candidate. Plus if you do away rotations and get good evals and letters it should also alleviate those concerns.

 

[repititionition]

You don't have this problem yet. Get in, then worry about where to attend.

 

[ChrisMack390]

You don't have this problem yet. Get in, then worry about where to attend.

I have to apply in order to get in!

 

[Snivellus]

Just because an MD school is new doesn't mean it's easier to get in. For example, I know a lot of good applicants that were not accepted to Hofstra.

 

[ERK123]

I have to apply in order to get in!

If you are a borderline candidate stat wise then you should be applying to both DO and MD anyway. You can make the decision about which school you want to attend after you have some acceptances.

 

[racerwad]

Main advantage beyond all of the intangibles and factors that different people value differently: as an allopathic student, you'll only have to take USMLE. That, along with no OMM (if it were me making this decision), makes any MD school a no brainer.

 

[JimmyB123]

OP, you always go MD over any DO school, didn't ya know?

 

[notbobtrustme]

depends on your mcat. a great mcat score can somewhat make up for a poor gpa (just how poor we talking here?). a poor mcat sinks your MD application

 

[ChrisMack390]

OP, you always go MD over any DO school, didn't ya know?

In general, yes. My question was if this also extends to brand new MD programs vs. well established DO programs.

depends on your mcat. a great mcat score can somewhat make up for a poor gpa (just how poor we talking here?). a poor mcat sinks your MD application

Its a 3.3. Bad, but not insurmountable with a solid MCAT.

 

[WhendoIstartfirstaid?]

OP, you always go MD over any DO school, didn't ya know?

You're obviously making post in jest, but you havent even started school yet.

A student from hofstra or FAU's first class will fare better in the match than a DO from any school. Mid tier university IM is the best DO's can normally aim for. Plastics/ENT/Derm/Uro will laugh out DO's applications without even looking at them. Same at top University IM programs. The hofstra/FAU/wherever students would have their applications looked at and be judged impartially the same as every other US MD applicant.

I orignially wanted to do a mid tier IM with a fellowship, but now I realize I actually enjoy derm and being a DO is greatly reducing my chances.

 

[racerwad]

You're obviously making post in jest, but you havent even started school yet.

A student from hofstra or FAU's first class will fare better in the match than a DO from any school. Mid tier university IM is the best DO's can normally aim for. Plastics/ENT/Derm/Uro will laugh out DO's applications without even looking at them. Same at top University IM programs. The hofstra/FAU/wherever students would have their applications looked at and be judged impartially the same as every other US MD applicant.

I orignially wanted to do a mid tier IM with a fellowship, but now I realize I actually enjoy derm and being a DO is greatly reducing my chances.

I'm the first to tell people to go MD if they have the chance, but the bolded is a little overreaching. The stratification continues amongst MD grads between who went state vs Ivy, etc. You are kidding yourself if a new MD school grad is going to be held in the same esteem as one from a more established institution. But, the impact isn't that big of a deal. According to the Program Director's survey, being a grad of an US allopathic institution has much more impact on getting interviews and rank position than which specific school.

 

[Psai]

Md over do every day. I'm not saying they are worse by default but people can make assumptions about you and they are generally true. Letters are on your name for life

 

[jw3600]

You're obviously making post in jest, but you havent even started school yet.

A student from hofstra or FAU's first class will fare better in the match than a DO from any school. Mid tier university IM is the best DO's can normally aim for. Plastics/ENT/Derm/Uro will laugh out DO's applications without even looking at them. Same at top University IM programs. The hofstra/FAU/wherever students would have their applications looked at and be judged impartially the same as every other US MD applicant.

I orignially wanted to do a mid tier IM with a fellowship, but now I realize I actually enjoy derm and being a DO is greatly reducing my chances.

Agree.

I'm the first to tell people to go MD if they have the chance, but the bolded is a little overreaching. The stratification continues amongst MD grads between who went state vs Ivy, etc. You are kidding yourself if a new MD school grad is going to be held in the same esteem as one from a more established institution. But, the impact isn't that big of a deal. According to the Program Director's survey, being a grad of an US allopathic institution has much more impact on getting interviews and rank position than which specific school.

Edited after more careful reading. Completely agree. I thought you were refuting the previous poster's post about DO schools producing good match lists.

 

[jw3600]

Its a 3.3. Bad, but not insurmountable with a solid MCAT.

3.3 is nearly insurmountable for MD. Assuming no URM/game changing intangibles.

 

[JimmyB123]

You're obviously making post in jest, but you havent even started school yet.

A student from hofstra or FAU's first class will fare better in the match than a DO from any school. Mid tier university IM is the best DO's can normally aim for. Plastics/ENT/Derm/Uro will laugh out DO's applications without even looking at them. Same at top University IM programs. The hofstra/FAU/wherever students would have their applications looked at and be judged impartially the same as every other US MD applicant.

I orignially wanted to do a mid tier IM with a fellowship, but now I realize I actually enjoy derm and being a DO is greatly reducing my chances.

My post was actually dead serious. Any single MD school is a much much wiser choice than any DO school out there. MD students are typically stronger applicants and will outcompete 9 times out of 10 any DO applicant when it comes to competitive specialities or institutions.

Definitely an M0 here but I'm no stranger to reality

 

[racerwad]

Agree.



Edited after more careful reading. Completely agree. I thought you were refuting the previous poster's post about DO schools producing good match lists.

Well, I was disagreeing with WhendoIstartfirstaid's post. I don't have anything to say about DO school's and their match lists.

 

[Stagg737]

You're obviously making post in jest, but you havent even started school yet.

A student from hofstra or FAU's first class will fare better in the match than a DO from any school. Mid tier university IM is the best DO's can normally aim for. Plastics/ENT/Derm/Uro will laugh out DO's applications without even looking at them. Same at top University IM programs. The hofstra/FAU/wherever students would have their applications looked at and be judged impartially the same as every other US MD applicant.

I orignially wanted to do a mid tier IM with a fellowship, but now I realize I actually enjoy derm and being a DO is greatly reducing my chances.

Bit of an exaggeration on the bolded part. Some programs will reject DO students flat-out, but my school (DO) has matched several students into top 5 ACGME programs over the past couple of years and even a few into some of the aforementioned fields.

My post was actually dead serious. Any single MD school is a much much wiser choice than any DO school out there. MD students are typically stronger applicants and will outcompete 9 times out of 10 any DO applicant when it comes to competitive specialities or institutions.

Definitely an M0 here but I'm no stranger to reality

I'd say that depends. Generally speaking, yes, but there are situations in which a DO school is a better decision than going MD.

@ChrisMack390 While I think some of the responses on here have been slightly exaggerated, I agree with the general sentiment that matching is easier as an MD than as a DO, even at a newer school. I do think that you'll definitely have more to prove as an applicant from a new school than an established one, but so long as you prove yourself during clinical years and have good letters/connections I don't think it would significantly hinder you at most places.

 

[Kaustikos]

Honestly, I feel as though it's more important to know what you want to specialize in. DO schools are not going to hinder you if family medicine/im/peds are your endpoint

 

[WhendoIstartfirstaid?]

Bit of an exaggeration on the bolded part. Some programs will reject DO students flat-out, but my school (DO) has matched several students into top 5 ACGME programs over the past couple of years and even a few into some of the aforementioned fields.

Link me to the school? I read through the entire DO match list thread and nothing stood out at all.

I'd say that depends. Generally speaking, yes, but there are situations in which a DO school is a better decision than going MD.

This would really only apply if you're talking about family/personal life. Education-wise, nearly all D.o. schools (besides the public ones) would fail to get LCME accrediation. Their rotation sites dont qualify, and the schools lack the research/teaching hospital. One of the lowest stat, pure rural, most bare bones M.D. schools, SIU, still produces better results than DO schools.

And srsly having to spend 4 hours a week in OMM. That's the final straw. 1000% of the time, take MD over DO. Even Temple ACMS > DO.

 

[pathologyDO]

Link me to the school? I read through the entire DO match list thread and nothing stood out at all.



This would really only apply if you're talking about family/personal life. Education-wise, nearly all D.o. schools (besides the public ones) would fail to get LCME accrediation. Their rotation sites dont qualify, and the schools lack the research/teaching hospital. One of the lowest stat, pure rural, most bare bones M.D. schools, SIU, still produces better results than DO schools.

And srsly having to spend 4 hours a week in OMM. That's the final straw. 1000% of the time, take MD over DO. Even Temple ACMS > DO.

Are you serious? I know KCU would 100% get LCME accreditation. There are some bad DO schools out there but there are just as many that provide an excellent education. While I agree that MD schools are generally better than DO I don't think there is going to be that big of a difference. Hell, most people don't even go to lectures in the first 2 years. The real leg up for MD is going to be an associated academic hospital with residencies.

The best thing I've heard is this: Its easier to get into a DO school, but it will make getting into residency harder (for competitive spots). The inverse is true of MD schools where it will be easier to get into residency but harder to get into a medical school. If you can get into a DO school but not MD, take the opportunity - you will still be a physician at the end of the day but you may not match plastics (however we have had someone from our school match plastics in years past).

 

[jw3600]

Well, I was disagreeing with WhendoIstartfirstaid's post. I don't have anything to say about DO school's and their match lists.

Yeah. I read your post too quickly and edited (probably before you saw). I THOUGHT you were defending DO match lists. You weren't. As an aside to my incorrect reading of your post, I DO agree with your intended point re: newer MD schools and possible disadvantages matching.

 

[pathologyDO]

Yeah. I read your post too quickly and edited (probably before you saw). I THOUGHT you were defending DO match lists. You weren't. As an aside to my incorrect reading of your post, I DO agree with your intended point re: newer MD schools and possible disadvantages matching.

punny

 

[Stagg737]

Link me to the school? I read through the entire DO match list thread and nothing stood out at all.

This would really only apply if you're talking about family/personal life. Education-wise, nearly all D.o. schools (besides the public ones) would fail to get LCME accrediation. Their rotation sites dont qualify, and the schools lack the research/teaching hospital. One of the lowest stat, pure rural, most bare bones M.D. schools, SIU, still produces better results than DO schools.

And srsly having to spend 4 hours a week in OMM. That's the final straw. 1000% of the time, take MD over DO. Even Temple ACMS > DO.

KCU(mb). The posted list in that thread was incomplete, but I'll PM you the list the school e-mailed to students. Of note last year was that we had a plastics match, 8 ortho matches, and of the 8 path matches, 4 were in 'top 20' programs and 2 went to top 10 programs (Cleveland Clinic and WashU). We had a weak year for Gen Surg, but we normally match at least 15 people, and about half go to ACGME programs. We've also put 2 people in plastics in the past 5 years, and 2 people into Derm at Mayo in the last 3 years. Here's the link to our match data over the years:

https://www.kcumb.edu/academics/college-of-osteopathic-medicine/eras-residency/match-statistics/


As for choosing DO over MD, I agree. If we're talking purely career wise MD is an easier path 99% of the time. The rare exception would be if you're looking into primary care or med in rural areas. I chose to turn down an MD interview and go DO because of family/personal reasons as well as the fact that I'm saving 100k in tuition pre-interest. Well over 100k if you include the COA money I'm saving by living with my fiancee who is helping support me. Something we definitely would not have been able to do if I went to the MD school which is about 1,200 miles away with no job market for my fiancee. I should also say that I disagree about SIU. I'm very familiar with the school and their match list, and while they are a great school if you want to practice rural med, that's about it. Do they get a few great spots? Yes, but so do we and so do several other of the better DO schools. I'm not saying they don't produce good docs, just saying that I'd choose my school over them and several other MD schools any day.

We also don't have that much OMM. We average 2 hours/week max. Some of it's meh, but I'm happy for some of the techniques I'm learning. If I go into sports med I think I can find some pretty good uses for myofascial release and muscle energy.

 

[jw3600]

KCU(mb). The posted list in that thread was incomplete, but I'll PM you the list the school e-mailed to students. Of note last year was that we had a plastics match, 8 ortho matches, and of the 8 path matches, 4 were in 'top 20' programs and 2 went to top 10 programs (Cleveland Clinic and WashU). We had a weak year for Gen Surg, but we normally match at least 15 people, and about half go to ACGME programs. We've also put 2 people in plastics in the past 5 years, and 2 people into Derm at Mayo in the last 3 years. Here's the link to our match data over the years:

https://www.kcumb.edu/academics/college-of-osteopathic-medicine/eras-residency/match-statistics/


As for choosing DO over MD, I agree. If we're talking purely career wise MD is an easier path 99% of the time. The rare exception would be if you're looking into primary care or med in rural areas. I chose to turn down an MD interview and go DO because of family/personal reasons as well as the fact that I'm saving 100k in tuition pre-interest. Well over 100k if you include the COA money I'm saving by living with my fiancee who is helping support me. Something we definitely would not have been able to do if I went to the MD school which is about 1,200 miles away with no job market for my fiancee. I should also say that I disagree about SIU. I'm very familiar with the school and their match list, and while they are a great school if you want to practice rural med, that's about it. Do they get a few great spots? Yes, but so do we and so do several other of the better DO schools. I'm not saying they don't produce good docs, just saying that I'd choose my school over them and several other MD schools any day.

We also don't have that much OMM. We average 2 hours/week max. Some of it's meh, but I'm happy for some of the techniques I'm learning. If I go into sports med I think I can find some pretty good uses for myofascial release and muscle energy.

KCU had 8 ortho ACGME matches or 8 combined?

 

[Stagg737]

KCU had 8 ortho ACGME matches or 8 combined?

Combined. No DO school has 8 ortho ACGMEs because DO ortho students understand how competitive the field is and apply AOA. If they match then they can't go ACGME. If they don't then they probably wouldn't stand a chance going ortho ACGME due to the bias and the fact that they're probably among the weaker candidates anyway. I would guess that those DOs that do go ortho ACGME are strong candidates with VERY strong ties at those institutions (along with being a little nuts for taking the risk of not matching ortho at all).

 

[Wordead]

KCU(mb). The posted list in that thread was incomplete, but I'll PM you the list the school e-mailed to students. Of note last year was that we had a plastics match, 8 ortho matches, and of the 8 path matches, 4 were in 'top 20' programs and 2 went to top 10 programs (Cleveland Clinic and WashU). We had a weak year for Gen Surg, but we normally match at least 15 people, and about half go to ACGME programs. We've also put 2 people in plastics in the past 5 years, and 2 people into Derm at Mayo in the last 3 years. Here's the link to our match data over the years:

https://www.kcumb.edu/academics/college-of-osteopathic-medicine/eras-residency/match-statistics/


As for choosing DO over MD, I agree. If we're talking purely career wise MD is an easier path 99% of the time. The rare exception would be if you're looking into primary care or med in rural areas. I chose to turn down an MD interview and go DO because of family/personal reasons as well as the fact that I'm saving 100k in tuition pre-interest. Well over 100k if you include the COA money I'm saving by living with my fiancee who is helping support me. Something we definitely would not have been able to do if I went to the MD school which is about 1,200 miles away with no job market for my fiancee. I should also say that I disagree about SIU. I'm very familiar with the school and their match list, and while they are a great school if you want to practice rural med, that's about it. Do they get a few great spots? Yes, but so do we and so do several other of the better DO schools. I'm not saying they don't produce good docs, just saying that I'd choose my school over them and several other MD schools any day.

We also don't have that much OMM. We average 2 hours/week max. Some of it's meh, but I'm happy for some of the techniques I'm learning. If I go into sports med I think I can find some pretty good uses for myofascial release and muscle energy.

Integrated plastics at mayo is pretty damn impressive for a DO. I dont think the mayo plastics program is as great as the hospital's rep, but matching any integrated program is still pretty amazing. Did the guy have connections?

 

[Stagg737]

Integrated plastics at mayo is pretty damn impressive for a DO. I dont think the mayo plastics program is as great as the hospital's rep, but matching any integrated program is still pretty amazing. Did the guy have connections?

Sorry for the confusion, plastics matches were at KU and a place in Mich. The Mayo matches were specifically derm for that sentence, although we've matched something like 5 or 6 people to Mayo in the past 3ish years.

Edit: @Wordead I know the guy at KU had connections and apparently every department he rotated in loved him. Not sure about the guy in Michigan, but I'm sure he made some solid connections there as well.

 

[Wordead]

Sorry for the confusion, plastics matches were at KU and a place in Mich. The Mayo matches were specifically derm for that sentence, although we've matched something like 5 or 6 people to Mayo in the past 3ish years.

Ah, okay. Dunno anything about KU, but still pretty impressive.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Moving to Pre allo

 

[Mad Jack]

MD if you don't want to work harder for the same results. That's what it boils down to. If I were an MD, my chances at certain programs I'm interested in would basically be 100%. As a DO, I'm going to have to stand out for consideration. I don't dislike my education- hell, I use OMM on friends all the time, so I don't even really feel like that is a waste- but it would be nice to not have extra barriers in my way.

 

[ChrisMack390]

I think I'll just apply to a bunch of MD programs and a handful of DO and see what happens.

Gotta find a DO to shadow/ask for a letter....

 

[Stagg737]

I think I'll just apply to a bunch of MD programs and a handful of DO and see what happens.

Gotta find a DO to shadow/ask for a letter....

If you're a borderline applicant for the 'low tier'/new MD schools, I'd apply to a decent number of DO schools as well. Bottom line is, and I think almost everyone will agree, that they'd rather be a DO than not be a physician at all.

 

[ChrisMack390]

If you're a borderline applicant for the 'low tier'/new MD schools, I'd apply to a decent number of DO schools as well. Bottom line is, and I think almost everyone will agree, is that they'd rather be a DO than not be a physician at all.

I am slowly coming around to that fact, and I agree that I would rather be a doctor than not. For a while I thought I would prefer to do an SMP/MD instead, but I am changing my mind on that. I will just take all the screwing around I did in college as a lesson and double down on my performance in DO school.