New Residency Programs

[Mitch Connor]

Hey ya'll,

I am an OMS3 looking to pursue IM vs FM and undecided at the moment. Where I am in clinical rotations there is a new IM residency that I find attractive for various reasons and in the near future I will be on service with the IM residency team. So I will have a good look at it from the inside. I think there are some obvious that attending a new residency with no pass data on the boards yet (has two classes going through currently) may be a little bit of a gamble but am curious what other arguments might be made against a program in its infancy?

The hospital is about 300 beds and has many different specialties, but at this time no neurosurgery or fellowship trained GI docs. The medical complex is constantly growing so this will likely change.

The program itself is unopposed. I am not very acquainted with the faculty yet but they all seem brilliant and the residents seem happy where they are.

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[GoSpursGo]

Why don’t you interview and then ask more targeted questions?

Not to dismiss your question, but it seems like you will apply regardless and this you may be able to ask better questions after your interview

 

[gutonc]

Why don’t you interview and then ask more targeted questions?

Not to dismiss your question, but it seems like you will apply regardless and this you may be able to ask better questions after your interview

I fully agree here. You've clearly decided to apply, or perhaps you won't after your rotation. In either case, you know way more than anyone here about that particular program AND what is going to matter to you. Wait until you decide to apply/apply/interview and then come back with your questions.

Hey ya'll,

I am an OMS3 looking to pursue IM vs FM and undecided at the moment. Where I am in clinical rotations there is a new IM residency that I find attractive for various reasons and in the near future I will be on service with the IM residency team. So I will have a good look at it from the inside. I think there are some obvious that attending a new residency with no pass data on the boards yet (has two classes going through currently) may be a little bit of a gamble but am curious what other arguments might be made against a program in its infancy?

The hospital is about 300 beds and has many different specialties, but at this time no neurosurgery or fellowship trained GI docs. The medical complex is constantly growing so this will likely change.

The program itself is unopposed. I am not very acquainted with the faculty yet but they all seem brilliant and the residents seem happy where they are.

This is just a point of order, but nobody in IM talks about opposed/unopposed programs. IM is IM. We don't "fight" other specialties for turf in the hospital the way that FM programs sometimes do. You won't rotate on OB or Peds or Surgery as an IM resident (like you might as an FM resident in an unopposed program) so this is something you don't need to concern yourself with. Also, don't mention it because most people in IM will look at you like you have 3 heads if you ask if their program is "unopposed".

TBH, sometimes when IM is the only residency in the building it can make things tougher since it's a lot easier to ask your "friends" who are residents in surgery and GYN and radiology for help than it can be to ask the PP attendings on those services in a hospital without other residencies.

 

[Mitch Connor]

I fully agree here. You've clearly decided to apply, or perhaps you won't after your rotation. In either case, you know way more than anyone here about that particular program AND what is going to matter to you. Wait until you decide to apply/apply/interview and then come back with your questions.

This is just a point of order, but nobody in IM talks about opposed/unopposed programs. IM is IM. We don't "fight" other specialties for turf in the hospital the way that FM programs sometimes do. You won't rotate on OB or Peds or Surgery as an IM resident (like you might as an FM resident in an unopposed program) so this is something you don't need to concern yourself with. Also, don't mention it because most people in IM will look at you like you have 3 heads if you ask if their program is "unopposed".

TBH, sometimes when IM is the only residency in the building it can make things tougher since it's a lot easier to ask your "friends" who are residents in surgery and GYN and radiology for help than it can be to ask the PP attendings on those services in a hospital without other residencies.

Thanks for the heads up. And yes at this point I plan to apply.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Whether or not you pass the ABIM exam has much more to do with your own stdying plan and almost nothing to do with the program itself. "Better" programs tend to match people with higher USMLE scores who do better on exams (and perhaps have better study habits) and hence have higher pass rates. Whether or not you pass will have nothing to do with the program you attend.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Hey ya'll,

I am an OMS3 looking to pursue IM vs FM and undecided at the moment. Where I am in clinical rotations there is a new IM residency that I find attractive for various reasons and in the near future I will be on service with the IM residency team. So I will have a good look at it from the inside. I think there are some obvious that attending a new residency with no pass data on the boards yet (has two classes going through currently) may be a little bit of a gamble but am curious what other arguments might be made against a program in its infancy?

The hospital is about 300 beds and has many different specialties, but at this time no neurosurgery or fellowship trained GI docs. The medical complex is constantly growing so this will likely change.

The program itself is unopposed. I am not very acquainted with the faculty yet but they all seem brilliant and the residents seem happy where they are.

My honest opinion? Don’t go to a freshly opened IM residency program.

When I was a DO student, my institution had opened several of these new residences, and we ended up rounding with their residents at many of these hospitals. The educational experiences were subpar at best. In many cases, these are community hospitals where some administrators have declared to the doctors that they’re going to start a residency, whether the docs asked for it or not. The doctors involved often aren’t academically minded, and the zeal for training fresh doctors won’t be there when it’s a bunch of community docs trying to get through their workflow and bounce home. Noon and morning conferences were a joke, if they existed at all. Community docs called in to do didactics often just didn’t show up. At one of the hospitals, the nurses just didn’t take the residents seriously and paged the attendings about everything despite having been told over and over to call the residents first. At another hospital, the attending wouldn’t even let medical students examine patients out of “liability concerns”, and the resident on duty basically was a glorified medical student who couldn’t do much of anything. There was no “autonomy” to speak of.

You want to go to an established program that has a track record of quality training, and a culture of residents being the focal point of patient care. New residencies seem to take a long time to get their **** together, if they ever do.

 

[Mitch Connor]

My honest opinion? Don’t go to a freshly opened IM residency program.

When I was a DO student, my institution had opened several of these new residences, and we ended up rounding with their residents at many of these hospitals. The educational experiences were subpar at best. In many cases, these are community hospitals where some administrators have declared to the doctors that they’re going to start a residency, whether the docs asked for it or not. The doctors involved often aren’t academically minded, and the zeal for training fresh doctors won’t be there when it’s a bunch of community docs trying to get through their workflow and bounce home. Noon and morning conferences were a joke, if they existed at all. Community docs called in to do didactics often just didn’t show up. At one of the hospitals, the nurses just didn’t take the residents seriously and paged the attendings about everything despite having been told over and over to call the residents first. At another hospital, the attending wouldn’t even let medical students examine patients out of “liability concerns”, and the resident on duty basically was a glorified medical student who couldn’t do much of anything. There was no “autonomy” to speak of.

You want to go to an established program that has a track record of quality training, and a culture of residents being the focal point of patient care. New residencies seem to take a long time to get their **** together, if they ever do.

Thank you for the input. From what I know/have seen so far I don't think that's the case here, but I will be paying close attention.

 

[IonClaws]

Newer programs may be less supportive if you are behind in your clinical skills, despite being a training program. I say this as a "victim" of a newer residency program.