New to California. Help me choose a school for DIY post-bac.

[optimistic3]

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I just graduated with a BS biochemistry from the Midwest. I'll be moving to the bay area next month (San Jose area) and I plan on doing a DIY post bac to raise my GPA (currently 3.38 cGPA and 3.18 sGPA). I've been researching a bit and I saw a post that said community colleges are lowest ranked, then Cal States, then UCs. Would it look really bad if I took classes at a CC or Cal State?

I also want to take an EMT class - I was thinking Foothill College but obviously I'd prefer to take all of my classes at one institution if possible. Can anyone give me some advice on what school would be the best?

I do realize that a CC wouldn't have upper level classes. I was thinking of retaking 2 lower level classes that I got a C in (gen chem 1 and 2) and 2 upper level classes that I got a C in (genetics and cell bio) because I'll probably apply DO as well (I'm going to apply next cycle to both MD and DO). I also want to take some other classes like statistics, psychology, sociology, and maybe anatomy & physiology. I'm working on planning out my semesters/gap years right now.

Also any advice on what other classes to take would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[LaceyMD]

"San Jose area" is a bit vague in terms of advising on what schools would be nearest you - it's a big area!

That being said, there's honestly not a "best" choice, it's about finding a school that will be sufficiently challenging academically and that will have classes that are convenient for you, both time-wise (especially if you're also working full time) and location-wise. If you're looking for something other than a CC, I'd suggest looking into taking classes at San Jose State University, as it's the big one in the area. Foothill is not a bad school, nor is San Jose City College.

 

[optimistic3]

"San Jose area" is a bit vague in terms of advising on what schools would be nearest you - it's a big area!

That being said, there's honestly not a "best" choice, it's about finding a school that will be sufficiently challenging academically and that will have classes that are convenient for you, both time-wise (especially if you're also working full time) and location-wise. If you're looking for something other than a CC, I'd suggest looking into taking classes at San Jose State University, as it's the big one in the area. Foothill is not a bad school, nor is San Jose City College.

Whoops, I just googled it and I didn't realize how huge it was! ok, I'll be closer to North San Jose/Santa Clara/Milpitas area. Does that help? I don't want to be too detailed 😉

Thanks for your suggestions, though!

 

[Mbekweni]

Santa Clara has an excellent summer program for O Chem and Physics. Not too expensive and while rigorous you can so well in the classes. Berkeley will kick your butt- as they have a curve on most science classes and might be tough to raise your science GPA if that is your primary objective. Mills college is a women's undergrad but has an excellent post BAC program that would be worth looking into. If you have all your pre reqs you could also just consider doing a 1 year masters degree in science. Take a bunch of upper division science classes that are easy to do well in, get some interesting research experience and be a step ahead of just retaking some classes where you got some B's. Would probably go over better with admissions if you could justify the grad program as interest driven rather than just to boost your GPA. I did a 2 year MPH myself. Partially knowing it would help my GPA but also because it was really interesting stuff. Good luck!

 

[optimistic3]

Santa Clara has an excellent summer program for O Chem and Physics. Not too expensive and while rigorous you can so well in the classes. Berkeley will kick your butt- as they have a curve on most science classes and might be tough to raise your science GPA if that is your primary objective. Mills college is a women's undergrad but has an excellent post BAC program that would be worth looking into. If you have all your pre reqs you could also just consider doing a 1 year masters degree in science. Take a bunch of upper division science classes that are easy to do well in, get some interesting research experience and be a step ahead of just retaking some classes where you got some B's. Would probably go over better with admissions if you could justify the grad program as interest driven rather than just to boost your GPA. I did a 2 year MPH myself. Partially knowing it would help my GPA but also because it was really interesting stuff. Good luck!

I definitely considered a masters but I can't justify the price right now. I already have enough student loans from undergrad. I think if I don't get in to med school on the 1st or 2nd try, then I'd go for an SMP. After some thinking, I've decided I'm going to take more new upper level science classes rather than retaking those older classes since I really would like to go to MD school. AMCAS grade averaging wouldn't help me as much as adding new classes would.

Anyone have suggestions on good interesting classes that I should take? Maybe this fall I should stick with the EMT class, a stats class, a sociology class, and one science class (although I'm not sure if I can still get into a university for the fall so I wouldn't be able to take an upper level science class if that's the case).

 

[Mbekweni]

There is also the Stanford summer extension courses, enrollment open until June 10. Handy to add a nice name to your transcripts perhaps? Though San Jose St would still be a lot cheaper.

 

[LaceyMD]

Whoops, I just googled it and I didn't realize how huge it was! ok, I'll be closer to North San Jose/Santa Clara/Milpitas area. Does that help? I don't want to be too detailed 😉

Thanks for your suggestions, though!

Yup, welcome to a California metro area, we like 'em big! Honestly, "San Jose area" - or really most cities in CA - wouldn't be nearly so large if it weren't for the traffic, since we seem to have never figured out how to make that work 🙂

You should also look at Santa Clara University if you're in that area, although as a private school, it might be a bit more expensive than San Jose State. But if you're looking for a 4-year, I think those are the big two in the area unless I'm forgetting one (entirely possible, as I haven't lived in the SJ area for a few years now).

 

[optimistic3]

There is also the Stanford summer extension courses, enrollment open until June 10. Handy to add a nice name to your transcripts perhaps? Though San Jose St would still be a lot cheaper.

Thanks for the suggestion! I think I want to focus on MCAT studying this summer, though. With my GPA, I clearly need to work as hard as I can and get a great score.

 

[optimistic3]

Yup, welcome to a California metro area, we like 'em big! Honestly, "San Jose area" - or really most cities in CA - wouldn't be nearly so large if it weren't for the traffic, since we seem to have never figured out how to make that work 🙂

You should also look at Santa Clara University if you're in that area, although as a private school, it might be a bit more expensive than San Jose State. But if you're looking for a 4-year, I think those are the big two in the area unless I'm forgetting one (entirely possible, as I haven't lived in the SJ area for a few years now).

Yeah, I'm certainly not looking forward to the traffic or sky high cost of living!! Thanks so much for your help. I'll look into both Santa Clara and SJ State!

 

[Mbekweni]

Also, before you invest too much time and money into an effort like this I would plug all your prior grades into one of the spreadsheet grade calculators. I've attached one from back when I applied (a mere 6 years ago now) so I can't vouch for how accurate it is these days. The important thing to check though would be your ballpark math/science GPA, as well as the order of effect that another A in a science class would have on your GPA. If you took a lot of undergrad science classes already then you may be surprised that an A might only bump you up 0.01-0.02 per class and that probably wouldn't have a significant impact on your overall application.

 

[Fabio Lanzoni]

Do you become a california resident by doing this post bac? If so you might reconsider before doing so!

 

[mehc012]

I'm in the same area as you...ended up going with UC Berkeley Extension because there are plenty of science upper levels, all of the premed prereqs, and evening courses, which fit with my work schedule. Most of the 4-yrs were a PITA about being a non-degree seeking student and the CCs don't have upper levels.
UCBX is expensive, as most schools for non-degree students are, but so far the courses have been good and the timing is nice!

Do you become a california resident by doing this post bac? If so you might reconsider before doing so!

Nah, once you leave the other states you can no longer claim residency there, so it doesn't help you to avoid CA residency. That would just leave you state-less instead of a CA resident, which isn't a better situation.

 

[Fabio Lanzoni]

Nah, once you leave the other states you can no longer claim residency there, so it doesn't help you to avoid CA residency. That would just leave you state-less instead of a CA resident, which isn't a better situation.

OP says they're leaving the Midwest for CA and I'm wondering why they wouldn't choose a state like FL or TX where the chances for med school are better? They get to choose where they get state residency so why choose CA (or like MA) where you're setting yourself up for a harder time?

 

[optimistic3]

Also, before you invest too much time and money into an effort like this I would plug all your prior grades into one of the spreadsheet grade calculators. I've attached one from back when I applied (a mere 6 years ago now) so I can't vouch for how accurate it is these days. The important thing to check though would be your ballpark math/science GPA, as well as the order of effect that another A in a science class would have on your GPA. If you took a lot of undergrad science classes already then you may be surprised that an A might only bump you up 0.01-0.02 per class and that probably wouldn't have a significant impact on your overall application.

Thanks for including those! I found spreadsheets for both AMCAS and AACOMAS grades in a sticky thread under the what are my chances forum that are slightly different than what you have but I bet they still work the same. I do still need to play around with more classes and numbers to make my final decision.

Do you become a california resident by doing this post bac? If so you might reconsider before doing so!

Can you elaborate? I have read a lot on SDN that it seems harder to get into CA schools as a resident, correct?

I guess my residency status depends on how med schools/AMCAS determine it. If it's by dependency status, I am still claimed as a dependent by my parents. My father has been living and working in CA for a few years so I may already be a resident. However, if it's determined by when I moved there, then one year later will be at the end of June next year. I plan to apply on the first day possible next cycle so I wouldn't be a resident at that point, I guess.

Obviously if I go to a public school/community college there, I will want to take advantage of residency status so I can get lower tuition rates. I really can't afford to move anywhere else/stay where I am and I really need to take some more classes to increase my GPA, even just by a little bit, so it doesn't look like I have much of a choice.

I'm in the same area as you...ended up going with UC Berkeley Extension because there are plenty of science upper levels, all of the premed prereqs, and evening courses, which fit with my work schedule. Most of the 4-yrs were a PITA about being a non-degree seeking student and the CCs don't have upper levels.
UCBX is expensive, as most schools for non-degree students are, but so far the courses have been good and the timing is nice!

Nah, once you leave the other states you can no longer claim residency there, so it doesn't help you to avoid CA residency. That would just leave you state-less instead of a CA resident, which isn't a better situation.

Berkeley Extension sounds like an interesting idea! Are classes just available up in Berkeley? How bad is traffic to get over there usually? I'll have to look into that. Are extension classes viewed just like normal Berkeley classes?

 

[optimistic3]

OP says they're leaving the Midwest for CA and I'm wondering why they wouldn't choose a state like FL or TX where the chances for med school are better? They get to choose where they get state residency so why choose CA (or like MA) where you're setting yourself up for a harder time?

ah, great question. I'm moving with my family. My father works there and we've been planning this move for a while so I really don't have a choice because I can't afford to move out. I'll be living with them until I get into med school. It certainly does seem like I'm putting myself at a great disadvantage right now so I'm not looking forward to it but I've got to make the best of my situation.

 

[Fabio Lanzoni]

Can you elaborate? I have read a lot on SDN that it seems harder to get into CA schools as a resident, correct?

I guess my residency status depends on how med schools/AMCAS determine it. If it's by dependency status, I am still claimed as a dependent by my parents. My father has been living and working in CA for a few years so I may already be a resident. However, if it's determined by when I moved there, then one year later will be at the end of June next year. I plan to apply on the first day possible next cycle so I wouldn't be a resident at that point, I guess.

Obviously if I go to a public school/community college there, I will want to take advantage of residency status so I can get lower tuition rates. I really can't afford to move anywhere else/stay where I am and I really need to take some more classes to increase my GPA, even just by a little bit, so it doesn't look like I have much of a choice.

Yeah I'm not 100% sure how residency status works for the AMCAS or even specific schools, but to me, you have the choice to not be in CA when you apply which can be the difference between acceptance and not. In state tuition at UCs is nice, but that is given that you get in, which many native californians don't.

But it seems like you are aware of all this and you have no choice, so moving here is a must! Welcome to da best state

 

[mehc012]

Thanks for including those! I found spreadsheets for both AMCAS and AACOMAS grades in a sticky thread under the what are my chances forum that are slightly different than what you have but I bet they still work the same. I do still need to play around with more classes and numbers to make my final decision.



Can you elaborate? I have read a lot on SDN that it seems harder to get into CA schools as a resident, correct?

I guess my residency status depends on how med schools/AMCAS determine it. If it's by dependency status, I am still claimed as a dependent by my parents. My father has been living and working in CA for a few years so I may already be a resident. However, if it's determined by when I moved there, then one year later will be at the end of June next year. I plan to apply on the first day possible next cycle so I wouldn't be a resident at that point, I guess.

Obviously if I go to a public school/community college there, I will want to take advantage of residency status so I can get lower tuition rates. I really can't afford to move anywhere else/stay where I am and I really need to take some more classes to increase my GPA, even just by a little bit, so it doesn't look like I have much of a choice.



Berkeley Extension sounds like an interesting idea! Are classes just available up in Berkeley? How bad is traffic to get over there usually? I'll have to look into that. Are extension classes viewed just like normal Berkeley classes?

Nah, they're offered in SF, Berkeley, Hayward, and Belmont (which is the most useful for San Jose).
I don't know how they're viewed; I know there is oversight from Berkeley in terms of course content and instructors.

 

[optimistic3]

Nah, they're offered in SF, Berkeley, Hayward, and Belmont (which is the most useful for San Jose).
I don't know how they're viewed; I know there is oversight from Berkeley in terms of course content and instructors.

Wow, I love that they have upper level courses and the times do seem fantastic. Driving around the bay seems worth it. I will do some more research but this one looks like a winner. Thanks!

 

[mehc012]

Wow, I love that they have upper level courses and the times do seem fantastic. Driving around the bay seems worth it. I will do some more research but this one looks like a winner. Thanks!

I've mostly stuck to the Belmont location - the commute is good from SJ, and if you want to Caltrain it, it's a definite possibility (the evening times are somewhat annoying depending on whether your prof tends to run late or early, but usually you can find a ride home if it runs over and you don't want to have to wait for the next train).
The Berkeley campus is doable, but the drive is kind of exhausting.
I've not tried SF or Hayward. Most classes seem to be offered in Berkeley and in Belmont.

PS - the Anatomy course does have a cadaver lab, if that interests you.

 

[optimistic3]

I've mostly stuck to the Belmont location - the commute is good from SJ, and if you want to Caltrain it, it's a definite possibility (the evening times are somewhat annoying depending on whether your prof tends to run late or early, but usually you can find a ride home if it runs over and you don't want to have to wait for the next train).
The Berkeley campus is doable, but the drive is kind of exhausting.
I've not tried SF or Hayward. Most classes seem to be offered in Berkeley and in Belmont.

PS - the Anatomy course does have a cadaver lab, if that interests you.

Yep, thanks. I'm considering anatomy! Do you have any other upper level science classes that you would suggest?

 

[mehc012]

Yep, thanks. I'm considering anatomy! Do you have any other upper level science classes that you would suggest?

Hmm...I enjoyed Cardiac and Respiratory Phys, though it was a bit disorganized and the Berkeley campus was a pain to get to.
Neuroscience with Zahr was quite good...she made an effort to stay organized AND to incorporate primary literature review.
I LOVED Medical Microbiology with Webster. Do it, just do it. Organized and passionate, her classes are hilarious and also informative.

If you still need physics, Judd is really good.

'Meh' list: Hematology, Physiology. Good and interesting, but I didn't like the teaching style. Also, I don't think I'm cut out to be a hematologist, so that one is more on me than anything.

 

[optimistic3]

Hmm...I enjoyed Cardiac and Respiratory Phys, though it was a bit disorganized and the Berkeley campus was a pain to get to.
Neuroscience with Zahr was quite good...she made an effort to stay organized AND to incorporate primary literature review.
I LOVED Medical Microbiology with Webster. Do it, just do it. Organized and passionate, her classes are hilarious and also informative.

If you still need physics, Judd is really good.

'Meh' list: Hematology, Physiology. Good and interesting, but I didn't like the teaching style. Also, I don't think I'm cut out to be a hematologist, so that one is more on me than anything.

So I've decided that I'm for sure taking UCBX classes. How difficult was hematology? There aren't a lot of upper levels offered at Belmont so I was thinking about taking hematology and the biology of cancer. Have you taken that? What about immunology (although that one is in Berkeley)?

I'm also thinking about an online abnormal psych class. I've read a few other threads on SDN about UCBX's online classes and some people haven't been happy, but then again I guess that depends on the professor.

I just don't want to sign up for classes that are going to be insanely difficult because I'm studying for my MCAT this semester too.

 

[mehc012]

So I've decided that I'm for sure taking UCBX classes. How difficult was hematology? There aren't a lot of upper levels offered at Belmont so I was thinking about taking hematology and the biology of cancer. Have you taken that? What about immunology (although that one is in Berkeley)?

I'm also thinking about an online abnormal psych class. I've read a few other threads on SDN about UCBX's online classes and some people haven't been happy, but then again I guess that depends on the professor.

I just don't want to sign up for classes that are going to be insanely difficult because I'm studying for my MCAT this semester too.

Hematology was 3 exams, all MC. The subject was a bit dense and the prof wasn't the best explainer so...it wasn't hard, but it wasn't straightforward either.
I want to take Bio of Cancer this fall, but it depends on what else I end up in.
I haven't taken the others.

 

[mysdnhandle]

.

 

[mehc012]

I would also look into getting a good-paying clinical job to pay off your loans/save up/get clinical experience, and then do an SMP. If you can live with a relative this might be easier to do.

If you really want to be a doctor, an SMP is the best thing you can do in your situation. People can write you letters, you're not going to have trouble getting classes you want like you may with an extension program, and nobody is going to doubt the rigor of what you are doing (some "extension" classes are a joke and are not transferrable to the UC so it's possible that schools will not even accept them) and you also get fantastic prep for medical school. You're going to have massive loans anyways but if you do it right, an SMP can be the shortest, most effective way to get to where you want to be. At the very worst, you will get a master's degree, whereas with a post-bacc, you do not get anything. Your GPA as it is right now is great for an SMP. I wouldn't recommend a "DIY" postbacc because of the risks of not getting your classes. You may want to also try to find a formal postbacc grade enhancement program. If you're in CA, there's a new post-bacc program at UCSD, you might want to look at it. But my personal opinion is to go for an SMP.

SMP is not necessary with a 3.4. It wouldn't hurt, but it'd be expensive and unnecessarily risky. Just a few semesters of classes would bring that up to a 3.5-3.6, which, paired with a decent MCAT, is fine for admission to MD schools.
DIY programs are perfectly fine, and far far better for OP as they have already taken the prereqs. Formal programs are again, needlessly expensive, and typically cover the courses which OP does not need to take.

 

[Buddy.the.Elf]

CSU East Bay in Hayward offers a formal post-bacc and the option to get a committee LOR at the end. It's not too far of a commute, but it is very expensive. They offer a career changer track (mostly pre-reqs) and an academic enhancer track (upper divisions and/or retakes).

 

[mysdnhandle]

.

 

[mehc012]

CSU East Bay in Hayward offers a formal post-bacc and the option to get a committee LOR at the end. It's not too far of a commute, but it is very expensive. They offer a career changer track (mostly pre-reqs) and an academic enhancer track (upper divisions and/or retakes).

I guess I just don't understand the advantages of paying more to get...what, a committee letter?
DIY postbacc all the way.

 

[mehc012]

'Just a few semesters'...if OP does an SMP where there is a better chance of avoiding a glide year, op will have an additional year of physicians income, and the cost of the smp will be negligible. Each program is different but OP may find one that suits his/her needs.

SMP also takes time...in an equivalent amount of time as an SMP, OPs GPA will be fine for MD.
It costs less
There is less risk
He can continue to work/earn money while taking courses, whereas the SMP you really can't.

 

[optimistic3]

I would also look into getting a good-paying clinical job to pay off your loans/save up/get clinical experience, and then do an SMP. If you can live with a relative this might be easier to do.

If you really want to be a doctor, an SMP is the best thing you can do in your situation. People can write you letters, you're not going to have trouble getting classes you want like you may with an extension program, and nobody is going to doubt the rigor of what you are doing (some "extension" classes are a joke and are not transferrable to the UC so it's possible that schools will not even accept them) and you also get fantastic prep for medical school. You're going to have massive loans anyways but if you do it right, an SMP can be the shortest, most effective way to get to where you want to be. At the very worst, you will get a master's degree, whereas with a post-bacc, you do not get anything. Your GPA as it is right now is great for an SMP. I wouldn't recommend a "DIY" postbacc because of the risks of not getting your classes. You may want to also try to find a formal postbacc grade enhancement program. If you're in CA, there's a new post-bacc program at UCSD, you might want to look at it. But my personal opinion is to go for an SMP.

What are some options for clinical jobs? Scribing would probably be one. I would LOVE that because then it'd knock out clinical volunteering and I'd be getting paid. However, I don't really have my own car at the moment (long story) so I'm not sure if a job would be wise. My sister and I are sharing a car and we'll both be going to different schools, so it's a hassle.

As for the SMP thing, I feel like it'd be my last resort if I don't get in the first time I apply (next year). I don't want to invest that much time and money into it if I might be able to do without it. Plus I know they need an MCAT score and I haven't taken it yet. I'm shooting for an October date. Do they also need letters of rec for admission?

When you say that some extension classes are not transferrable to UCs, what do you mean? Med schools or undergrads? I'm not sure how that concerns me if it's an undergrad thing and if it's a med school thing, I'm not expecting to get into a any UCs anyway. I don't even think I like living here so I'm prepared to move out of state.

SMP is not necessary with a 3.4. It wouldn't hurt, but it'd be expensive and unnecessarily risky. Just a few semesters of classes would bring that up to a 3.5-3.6, which, paired with a decent MCAT, is fine for admission to MD schools.
DIY programs are perfectly fine, and far far better for OP as they have already taken the prereqs. Formal programs are again, needlessly expensive, and typically cover the courses which OP does not need to take.

I did the math with some spreadsheets and I can raise both my cGPA and sGPA by 0.1 pt after next spring assuming all As. I'm terrified to get a B. I'm really good at getting Bs in science classes but As are harder (hence my sGPA). I do think I have the ability to do it but I just really have to change my study habits this year.

CSU East Bay in Hayward offers a formal post-bacc and the option to get a committee LOR at the end. It's not too far of a commute, but it is very expensive. They offer a career changer track (mostly pre-reqs) and an academic enhancer track (upper divisions and/or retakes).

I did see that during my research. I feel like Berkeley Extension would be a better name to have on my transcript...although maybe Extension negates the prestigious Berkeley name? idk. At this point, I need all the help I can get.

Have you done that program or know anyone who has?