Next Move: Caribbean?

[bohiballer139]

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This is my first time applying to med schools and out of 25, I've had 5 rejections and no interviews. I know it is late in the cycle and interview invite chances are slim, therefore I'm beginning to consider schools such as Ross and St. George's. I have a 33/3.8 with plenty of research and volunteer work, so I am slightly disheartened by the lack of responses from North American schools. I am constantly hearing about the high rates of attrition Caribbean schools, but I feel that I have the proper study habits and drive to learn about medicine and excel anywhere. I'm not exactly in a financial position to apply to so many schools again, nor am I comfortable with essentially wasting another year not working towards my MD.

Thoughts? Any feedback is appreciated

 

[ppfizenm]

This is my first time applying to med schools and out of 25, I've had 5 rejections and no interviews. I know it is late in the cycle and interview invite chances are slim, therefore I'm beginning to consider schools such as Ross and St. George's. I have a 33/3.8 with plenty of research and volunteer work, so I am slightly disheartened by the lack of responses from North American schools. I am constantly hearing about the high rates of attrition Caribbean schools, but I feel that I have the proper study habits and drive to learn about medicine and excel anywhere. I'm not exactly in a financial position to apply to so many schools again, nor am I comfortable with essentially wasting another year not working towards my MD.

Thoughts? Any feedback is appreciated

1. any red flags in your application?
2. when did you submit your secondaries by?
3. home state?
4. did you apply top heavy or to a good range of schools around your stats?

with those stats, if everything else is in order you shouldn't need to go Caribbean. I would risk another application cycle over going Caribbean

 

[Wombat Hunter]

Good lord, no.
Man/woman up, boost EC's and apply early next year.

...step away from the ledge...

 

[235788]

caribbean before do?

Better luck next year man

 

[bohiballer139]

1. any red flags in your application?
2. when did you submit your secondaries by?
3. home state?
4. did you apply top heavy or to a good range of schools around your stats?

with those stats, if everything else is in order you shouldn't need to go Caribbean. I would risk another application cycle over going Caribbean

1. Nothing criminal, consistent GPA, no breaks in my education...can't think of anything else?
2. Secondaries were in by late August-early September
3. CA
4. Definitely not top heavy. Applied to all of the California schools (minus Loma Linda) and then about 18 others with stats around or lower than mine.

 

[FattySlug]

Maybe try to call the schools that rejected you and ask. You may get a clue as to what to improve next year. Why don't you post all the details in WAMC so Catalysk can help you?

DO NOT go to the islands. DO should be the next thing in mind. As a fellow CA applicant I totally feel you man. I heard that sometimes your application might just be too vanilla and people just passed you over even though your numbers are solid.

 

[EBTrailRunner]

This whole process is a crapshoot. From what you've described, you appear to be a solid candidate for a U.S. M.D. school. If it were me, I'd start planning for next cycle. With your stats, forget the Carribean. It's not simply a matter of flunking out, but if you do manage to make it through all four years, you're going to have one hell of a time making it back to the States. One more year is not a big deal when the alternative is many years of unnecessary struggle.

 

[bohiballer139]

Is it really that hard to get matched with residencies back in the states?

 

[Knocked Up]

1. Nothing criminal, consistent GPA, no breaks in my education...can't think of anything else?
2. Secondaries were in by late August-early September Kinda late but the problem is exerbated because.....
3. CA
4. Definitely not top heavy. Applied to all of the California schools (minus Loma Linda) and then about 18 others with stats around or lower than mine.

 

[K31]

4. Definitely not top heavy. Applied to all of the California schools (minus Loma Linda) and then about 18 others with stats around or lower than mine.

You made sure they were schools that all accept significant numbers of out-of-state students?

Something doesn't quite fit here. With stats like that, you should definitely have some interviews. Any possibility of something wrong with your LORs?

Definitely try to figure out what's wrong and then reapply. Caribbean should be an absolute last resort.

 

[FattySlug]

I understand that the Caribbean might admit some students that probably can't handle the rigors of medical school to begin with. But if the curriculum is the same, then why isn't it a good option for those individuals that have stats on par with students who get in to North American schools?

I think the problem comes when you try to get a residency in the U.S. Many threads discussed this subject extensively.

 

[K31]

I think the problem comes when you try to get a residency in the U.S. Many threads discussed this subject extensively.

Yes, and the problem is going to get worse over the next 5-10 years with the continued increase in US medical students (both MD and DO).

 

[Sephiroth]

If you oculd just list all of the schools you applied to that might make it easier (minus the Cali ones, we know what those are)

 

[bohiballer139]

If you oculd just list all of the schools you applied to that might make it easier (minus the Cali ones, we know what those are)

Here are the out of state schools I applied to:

Albany
Albert Einstein
Boston University
Brown
Cincinnati
Drexel
Illinois
Jefferson
NYMC
Ohio State
Oregon Health and Sciences University
Rochester
Stritch
Tufts
University of North Carolina
Virginia Commonwealth
Vermont
Medical College of Wisconsin

 

[Slowpoke]

1) Wait until the cycle is officially over before throwing in the flag.

2) Find out why your application wasn't taken more seriously by contacting schools.

3) Digest the constructive criticism, put in a tremendous effort to improve weaknesses.

4) Bite the bullet, June 2012.

 

[Mount Sinai]

Holy cow!!! That is is very nice, well distributed...good oos friendly schools...what the hell went wrong? even I am panicking..

You didn't hear anything from AE or VCU...or even UVM???

 

[bohiballer139]

Holy cow!!! That is is very nice, well distributed...good oos friendly schools...what the hell went wrong? even I am panicking..

You didn't hear anything from AE or VCU...or even UVM???

That's why I'm so worried because I thought I had done all my homework with regards to which schools to apply to and had my "application ducks in a row" 😕

 

[bohiballer139]

Is it really THAT hard to get a residency out of the caribbean? Even primary care/family medicine?

Ya, I thought it wasn't that bad if you were US citizen to begin with...

 

[Sephiroth]

Here are the out of state schools I applied to:

Albany
Albert Einstein
Boston University
Brown
Cincinnati
Drexel
Illinois
Jefferson
NYMC
Ohio State
Oregon Health and Sciences University
Rochester
Stritch
Tufts
University of North Carolina
Virginia Commonwealth
Vermont
Medical College of Wisconsin

Honestly, not a terrible selection. But unfortunately, some of those private schools with mediocre numbers get a crapload of applicants and they just start basically randomly throwing out applications. Obviously even state schools that aren't super-averse to out-of-staters are still not great odds percentage-wise. I guess if you don't get in this cycle just apply to more schools in that middle range - shotgun method. And preferably private schools. That's what I did this cycle (my second cycle) and I ended up with some interviews at places I wouldn't have necessarily expected or counted on.

 

[wololololololo]

Is it really THAT hard to get a residency out of the caribbean? Even primary care/family medicine?

It is, unless you want to work in rural Alabama or in a program no one wants to go to. In any case, California.

Feelsbadman

 

[Signifier]

To put it bluntly - did you have a boring application? Are you a boring candidate?

 

[Stumpyman]

Is it really THAT hard to get a residency out of the caribbean? Even primary care/family medicine?

It's definitely a large, new hurdle. It's not as bad as people here portray it to be, but yes, it's tough. Primary care is in shortage though and not (even close to) enough US grads go into it, so there's a big break for people from foreign schools.

 

[Sephiroth]

Holy cow!!! That is is very nice, well distributed...good oos friendly schools...what the hell went wrong? even I am panicking..

You didn't hear anything from AE or VCU...or even UVM???

Dude, I had tried showing AE all sorts of love last year, and have numbers above their average, but even my second time applying they won't show me any love back.

 

[K31]

Ya, I thought it wasn't that bad if you were US citizen to begin with...

It is that bad. See p.17 of this document. For the 2011 MD match 94% of US MD students matched, as compared to 72% of DO students, 50% of US citizen IMGs, and 41% of non-US citiaen IMGs.

 

[theseeker4]

Ya, I thought it wasn't that bad if you were US citizen to begin with...

I was told at my interview that by 2016, there will be about as many US MD graduates as there are US MD residency slots. That means that even if things aren't THAT bad right now for FMG's (which they are, don't believe the numbers the Caribbean schools publish), it will be nearly impossible to gain a residency spot as an FMG. It is MUCH MUCH better to maybe have to re-apply and/or apply DO than to sit on 300k+ of debt while applying year after year to the match, hoping to get into the least desirable Family Medicine program in the country. Think about it.

 

[aSagacious]

Moving to the 'what are my chances?' forum.

 

[K31]

What if you worked in the Caribbean for a few years, THEN tried to get to the states? Or what if you worked in Alabama for a few years then tried to go to the city?

The barrier is getting into training in the US, and the longer you are out of school the harder that becomes. Once you complete residency in the US you can pretty much go anywhere to practice, with the exception of graduates of certain foreign schools who can't ever get a license in a few particular states (including California).

 

[Mount Sinai]

Dude, I had tried showing AE all sorts of love last year, and have numbers above their average, but even my second time applying they won't show me any love back.

Typically, they are not oos friendly...

NY?

 

[flodhi1]

OP get your personal statement checked out, add more schools and apply early (primary submitted in June, secondaries before mid July). You should be fine for next cycle just don't go to the Caribbeans with those stats!

 

[Catalystik]

This is my first time applying to med schools and out of 25, I've had 5 rejections and no interviews. I know it is late in the cycle and interview invite chances are slim, therefore I'm beginning to consider schools such as Ross and St. George's. I have a 33/3.8 with plenty of research and volunteer work, so I am slightly disheartened by the lack of responses from North American schools. I am constantly hearing about the high rates of attrition Caribbean schools, but I feel that I have the proper study habits and drive to learn about medicine and excel anywhere. I'm not exactly in a financial position to apply to so many schools again, nor am I comfortable with essentially wasting another year not working towards my MD.

1. Nothing criminal, consistent GPA, no breaks in my education...can't think of anything else?
2. Secondaries were in by late August-early September
3. CA
4. Definitely not top heavy. Applied to all of the California schools (minus Loma Linda) and then about 18 others with stats around or lower than mine.

Here are the out of state schools I applied to:

Albany
Albert Einstein
Boston University
Brown
Cincinnati
Drexel
Illinois
Jefferson
NYMC
Ohio State
Oregon Health and Sciences University
Rochester
Stritch
Tufts
University of North Carolina
Virginia Commonwealth
Vermont
Medical College of Wisconsin

Thoughts? Any feedback is appreciated

Any Institutional Action or complex misdemeanors?
Could you give the details of your ECs with length of involvement or hours?
Did you have your PS proofread by multiple readers in-the-know for appropriate tone and content?
Did you have an advisor with access to all your LORs who said they were fine? Did each writer have your AMCAS number?
Did you check with each school to be sure your file is complete, with no supplemental materials missing?

 

[K31]

I was told at my interview that by 2016, there will be about as many US MD graduates as there are US MD residency slots.

That's not going to happen. There were 23,421 positions offered in the US MD match in 2011, and 16,559 US MD seniors applying (15588 matched). That's the class that entered in 2007 (when 17,759 matriculated). You can add another 2,178 DO applicants to that, of whom 1,561 matched. Compare that to 2011 (ie the class that will be participating in the 2015 match), when 19,230 matriculated.

Residency spots increase in number each year (although not at the rate that medical school spots are currently increasing). I don't see it getting to the point any time soon that US MD grads=US MD residency spots. Mainly what's going to happen is US grads get forced more into primary care residencies (this is a forseeable, likely intended, consequence of increasing US medical school at the rate they are currently), squeezing first non-US IMGs and then US IMGs out of those spots.

 

[Sephiroth]

Typically, they are not oos friendly...

NY?

Huh? they do have more new york residents than would expected at random, but there are still more OOS'ers than IS'ers there - it's a private school.

And no, I've been gone from NY for many years now, though I still tried to make it clear I was originally from there.

 

[K31]

What about underserved areas like Alabama? Just stick around there for a few years then go wherever you want for the rest of your life!!! 😎

That's what I was implying--sorry if I didn't make that clear. Those are the the areas that are less competitive to get into residency, so IMGs/FMGs are more likely to get a spot there. Pay your dues there for a few years and you have the ability to get a medical license in any state (with the exception of graduates of a few schools, mostly those on the California disapproved schools list). Then you can practice wherever you can find a job (and once you're licensed, there's not much discrimination against foreign grads in private practice).

 

[MT Headed]

Here are the out of state schools I applied to:

Albany
Albert Einstein
Boston University
Brown
Cincinnati
Drexel
Illinois
Jefferson
NYMC
Ohio State
Oregon Health and Sciences University
Rochester
Stritch
Tufts
University of North Carolina
Virginia Commonwealth
Vermont
Medical College of Wisconsin

This is actually a good list for somebody with essentially no (realistic) in-state school option. Brown and OHSU are questionable if you have no local ties. I suggest adding Rosalind Franklin and Tulane next year.

 

[FattySlug]

Honestly, not a terrible selection. But unfortunately, some of those private schools with mediocre numbers get a crapload of applicants and they just start basically randomly throwing out applications. Obviously even state schools that aren't super-averse to out-of-staters are still not great odds percentage-wise. I guess if you don't get in this cycle just apply to more schools in that middle range - shotgun method. And preferably private schools. That's what I did this cycle (my second cycle) and I ended up with some interviews at places I wouldn't have necessarily expected or counted on.

Agreed. I made the same mistake this cycle. That's the thing to watch out for. Do not count too much on schools with low accepted stats in big cities. They get like 10k+ applications like BU or Loyola for example. At least he was smarter than me not apply to Gtown