NIH IRTA vs Staff Research Assistant/Associate: Advice please!

[collinsc]

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So I'm trying to decide whether I should apply for the NIH IRTA post bac or if I should apply for a job at a university as a Staff Research Associate or Assistant. Either or would be fine for me. I plan on taking a year off to gain more research experience but I wasn't sure on which option would be the better way to go. Any thoughts? After another year-ish of research either way I would be applying for an MSTP program...

 

[dobbysamosa]

Well I know (almost) nothing of the NIH IRTA program other than that I've met a few peeps on the interview trail who opted for it and had very positive experiences.

I chose to go the SRA route, mainly because I wanted to stay near my home area during my two years off. I decided to work for a physician-scientist who's lab also had several grad students and postdocs/fellow with MD/PhDs and MDs, so it gave me a great opportunity spend a year getting to know several individuals who had taken various training routes and learn what they felt were the pros and cons of their individual routes. If you do choose to go the SRA route, take care to ensure that you'll primarily be doing independent research projects (these jobs can be more difficult to find) instead of tech-work like genotyping mice or culturing cells for everyone else in the lab (these jobs are much more prevalent, at least where I work).

Having your own projects will better inform your own decision about whether you want to go MD/PhD, and it can also make a world of difference once interview season comes around for you.

 

[Drexon]

Here's something to think about:
It kind of depends on the type of research you want to do. Here let me elaborate.. if you apply to be a SRA then you have more control of what research you want to do.. IE you can choose which lab you want to join. I mean the IRTA program is good and all but basically labs who are in need of students / researchers pick from a pool of applicants and choose one fits their needs best. Basically ... you don't pick which lab and area of interest you want to be in but rather they do. That's how i see it. I personally am not in the IRTA program but I've spoken to people that are in the program.
Another side note is that if you want to move... I personally do not know where you live but I'm pretty sure if you do get into the IRTA program you might have to face the possibility of moving to the east coast to work in their labs. Just some thought.

 

[Tradewind]

Rather than focus on NIH IRTA v technician, I would start looking at individual PI's at the institutions/locations you'd want to live for 1-2 years. Talk with these PI's, visit them if possible and see how their labs are run. Keep in mind that your main goals are to get a letter of support for medical school (MD/PhD programs), research training and publications, in that order.

If you are having trouble finding a specific lab that you'd want to work in, apply for the NIH IRTA. I'm not sure how you get placed in labs there, but it seems to me someone will guide you depending on your stated interests. The NIH has a lot of options, and you might even get mentoring on who would be a good mentor, so if you're unsure who'd be a good mentor for you, sounds like a good option.

 

[fairalexfield]

Here's something to think about:
It kind of depends on the type of research you want to do. Here let me elaborate.. if you apply to be a SRA then you have more control of what research you want to do.. IE you can choose which lab you want to join. I mean the IRTA program is good and all but basically labs who are in need of students / researchers pick from a pool of applicants and choose one fits their needs best. Basically ... you don't pick which lab and area of interest you want to be in but rather they do. That's how i see it. I personally am not in the IRTA program but I've spoken to people that are in the program.

Not true at all! I'm an IRTA right now and I'd say you have more flexibility to choose your lab at the NIH than as a tech. Most tech jobs are like what the previous poster said, taking care of cell cultures, genotyping, etc. It's really difficult a.) to find a lab with an opening and b.) a lab that will let you do independent work. Now, the IRTA is geared towards an independent research position so you never have to worry about b. Also, the NIH is HUGE and there's bound to be someone here that you're interested in. It's true that PIs look at the applicant pool and choose students based on their stated interest (in your personal statement) so you're sought out by people who share your research interests. Also, you're encouraged to contact PIs yourself to see if they have any openings. I ended up being contacted by ~7 PIs so I had the opportunity to visit each lab, weigh the pros and cons, and choose the perfect place for me in terms of research interests, independence, and mentorship. In the end, it was my decision and no one told me where I had to go.

I can't speak more positively about my time at the NIH. Doing research as an undergraduate or a tech is one thing, but full time independent research for a year or two is a great way to grow as a scientist. Not only that, but the NIH offers a huge amount of clinical volunteering/shadowing experience. People are very open to talking with IRTAs and sharing their career and educational path. Another plus is the labs here aren't struggling for money since they're all on budget. There's no worrying about the next grant going through or not being able to do experiments because of a lack of money. It's amazing to have all of these resources at your fingertips. Lastly, DC is a wonderful city! It's been great having a community of other people at the same stage in their scientific/medical career (which a tech position lacks) and the area is both fun and affordable.

PM me if you have anymore questions about the IRTA

 

[collinsc]

So a few of you guys said contacting the pi is the way to go... What are good things to ask? Should I focus on what independent research opportunities there are and if they are hiring for an sra or nih irta? In terms of location I don't really care. Since I lived on the east coast forever in my youth I rather not go back but I can suck it up if need be. I'm mainly interested in heart research (more basic science or translational rather than clinical)...

 

[Drexon]

Not true at all! I'm an IRTA right now and I'd say you have more flexibility to choose your lab at the NIH than as a tech. Most tech jobs are like what the previous poster said, taking care of cell cultures, genotyping, etc. It's really difficult a.) to find a lab with an opening and b.) a lab that will let you do independent work. Now, the IRTA is geared towards an independent research position so you never have to worry about b. Also, the NIH is HUGE and there's bound to be someone here that you're interested in. It's true that PIs look at the applicant pool and choose students based on their stated interest (in your personal statement) so you're sought out by people who share your research interests.

I agree with the fact that the IRTA is more geared towards the whole independent research. To be honest I don't mean to be misleading but this is a quote taken directly from the NIH IRTA program Q&A section

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Q:. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How are applications reviewed?. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A:. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Investigators in the NIH intramural program have access to the database containing the electronic applications to this program. They can search for applicants with particular interests or specific GPAs or who are enrolled at selected universities. Each investigator decides to whom he/she will offer a position. The OITE is not involved in the selection process..
http://www.training.nih.gov/student/Pre-IRTA/postbac-faq.asp

Just wanted to clear some air. Perhaps they do things differently in real life but this is what I gathered from reading their site and chatting with a pal of mine that got into the program. Best to contact them directly with more questions.

 

[Tradewind]

I agree with the fact that the IRTA is more geared towards the whole independent research...[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Investigators in the NIH intramural program have access to the database containing the electronic applications to this program. They can search for applicants with particular interests or specific GPAs or who are enrolled at selected universities. Each investigator decides to whom he/she will offer a position..

Huh. Feels impersonal and governmental, but I guess this process would be helpful for applicants who might want more guidance in selecting a mentor.

You can't go wrong with the NIH. OTOH, I'd add that I wouldn't overemphasize having an independent project v being a technician. Many postbac technicians have independent projects, and many postbac 'students' (?) have no idea what's going on in the lab. To me, a postbac (whether he's a technician v SGA v IRTA student) is still a postbac. Having met a fair number of postbacs with different titles and seeing no correlation between title and expertise, the employment title makes no difference to me.

What matters more is how the student can answer questions related to the research project. These questions should include technical questions regarding the design of experiments. If an MD/PhD applicant can't answer technical questions, I get worried.

I prefer not to give much advice on what to ask PI's and how to write essays, since this should be about you, not something you read on SDN. That being said, some things to look out for would be a PI who is averse to your wanting to go to med school or someone you just don't click with. I would start sending letters and CV's to PI's you're interested in, and be honest about your interests and intentions. Or, consider the NIH.

 

[fairalexfield]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Q:. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How are applications reviewed?. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A:. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Investigators in the NIH intramural program have access to the database containing the electronic applications to this program. They can search for applicants with particular interests or specific GPAs or who are enrolled at selected universities. Each investigator decides to whom he/she will offer a position. The OITE is not involved in the selection process..

It's true that PIs get to choose who they want to work with (which is no different than finding a tech position, the PI says yes or no), however, in most cases, you'll have more than one offer. On top of that, you're encouraged to contact PIs directly. In the end, the final choice is up to you, not the PI. No one is being 'placed' into a lab.

There are a lot of details on the internet, but the actual program is much different in real life, which is why I recommend talking to people in the program rather than read the website.

 

[chh27]

hi fairalexfield,

the irta website doesn't directly answer this question--are post-bacc premed students eligible to apply? i graduated from undergrad more than the minimum two years ago, but i have since been enrolled in a post bacc premed program to complete my premed courses. do you know of any irta students that came from similar programs (and were therefore out of undergrad for more than 2 years)?

thanks!

 

[collinsc]

So I wont be able to work until October (I don't out of my lease until then). When do you guys think I should apply for these? I was thinking maybe around July or August? Or do you think it will really matter?

 

[fairalexfield]

hi fairalexfield,

the irta website doesn't directly answer this question--are post-bacc premed students eligible to apply? i graduated from undergrad more than the minimum two years ago, but i have since been enrolled in a post bacc premed program to complete my premed courses. do you know of any irta students that came from similar programs (and were therefore out of undergrad for more than 2 years)?

thanks!

I don't know of anyone coming from this type of program, but I can tell you that the 'rules' are rather lax (I know many people who stayed for three years, and even people who got the job more than the 2 years away from their bachelors). I can't guarantee that this won't be a problem, but it's still worth a shot.

So I wont be able to work until October (I don't out of my lease until then). When do you guys think I should apply for these? I was thinking maybe around July or August? Or do you think it will really matter?

It's worth putting up your profile at any time (usually about 3 months before you start, but I put it up about a month before). Put a note in your personal statement about your potential start date (if there isn't already a field for it) and then see who gets back to you. If you don't get any hits this early (I bet you will, but just in case) then just edit your profile later in the year to bring it back into attention.

 

[bd4727]

One thing that I think you should consider is if you have one particular school in mind that you really want to go to over others. If that is the case, then it is to your advantage to spend the year working in a lab at that school. Otherwise, it doesn't matter. Admissions people will see NIH IRTA = Staff Research in some other lab. In terms of your potential for admissions, the difference between the two is insignificant and you should just do/go where you want. The only factor where this can help is if you work for someone that is well connected or you work at a school that you are applying to.

 

[collinsc]

One thing that I think you should consider is if you have one particular school in mind that you really want to go to over others. If that is the case, then it is to your advantage to spend the year working in a lab at that school. Otherwise, it doesn't matter. Admissions people will see NIH IRTA = Staff Research in some other lab. In terms of your potential for admissions, the difference between the two is insignificant and you should just do/go where you want. The only factor where this can help is if you work for someone that is well connected or you work at a school that you are applying to.

Yeah if I didn't do the NIH IRTA, I would be trying to work at one of the university's that I planed on applying to an MSTP for for sure. That was my first plan but then my advisor told me about NIH IRTA as an option and it messed with my mind lol.

 

[fairalexfield]

Not to belabor the point, but there are many other advantages to the NIH IRTA v tech. IRTAs in general are paid more than their tech counterparts (this is definitely lab depending, I've met techs who get paid much more than me, but for the most part, they don't) and you get free health insurance and a transportation stipend. Also, it's a little more stable than a tech position. You're not subject to the whims of grants/funding and your job is more or less guaranteed for at least a year and up to two. Plus, having the structure of a program is very beneficial. You get many resources (including free classes, seminars, workshops, access to cool people) and you're in a huge community of other post-bacs (something a tech position can't offer). Also, I've had friends apply to schools where they were a technician thinking it would help them out and in the end, they were rejected (two of my friends who did this), so I'm not sure there's much credit to the whole 'foot in the door' thing unless you happen to work in the MSTP director's lab. Having a letter from someone who's known in the research community is a HUGE plus and it doesn't matter where you are. I'd imagine that having a letter from a big name at Columbia would be much more beneficial than a letter from an asst prof at UCSD if you really wanted to go to UCSD. I'm working for a very well known (well connected) PI right now and I definitely attribute part of my success this cycle to his LOR. I was told by a coPD at an interview that it's a good thing I have his letter because, "no one knows your undergraduate PI, but everyone knows your current PI and I know what goes on behind closed doors." Name (not institute) counts in this game. Moreover, the NIH IRTA is a very reputable program and is looked at highly by ADCOMs.

 

[pazan]

Not to belabor the point, but there are many other advantages to the NIH IRTA v tech. IRTAs in general are paid more than their tech counterparts (this is definitely lab depending, I've met techs who get paid much more than me, but for the most part, they don't) and you get free health insurance and a transportation stipend. Also, it's a little more stable than a tech position. You're not subject to the whims of grants/funding and your job is more or less guaranteed for at least a year and up to two. Plus, having the structure of a program is very beneficial. You get many resources (including free classes, seminars, workshops, access to cool people) and you're in a huge community of other post-bacs (something a tech position can't offer). Also, I've had friends apply to schools where they were a technician thinking it would help them out and in the end, they were rejected (two of my friends who did this), so I'm not sure there's much credit to the whole 'foot in the door' thing unless you happen to work in the MSTP director's lab. Having a letter from someone who's known in the research community is a HUGE plus and it doesn't matter where you are. I'd imagine that having a letter from a big name at Columbia would be much more beneficial than a letter from an asst prof at UCSD if you really wanted to go to UCSD. I'm working for a very well known (well connected) PI right now and I definitely attribute part of my success this cycle to his LOR. I was told by a coPD at an interview that it's a good thing I have his letter because, "no one knows your undergraduate PI, but everyone knows your current PI and I know what goes on behind closed doors." Name (not institute) counts in this game. Moreover, the NIH IRTA is a very reputable program and is looked at highly by ADCOMs.

I second everything that was said about the IRTA program and wanted to add that Washington is a great city to spend 1-2 years. Also, I don't think all IRTAs are "selected" for a position from a pool of applicants... I emailed a PI in a field I was interested in and asked if he had an opening (and am working here now). I was also emailed openings, but liked the idea of choosing a lab to work in. But I can't recommend an IRTA position over a RA... the factors that determine happiness/success depend on the lab and PI, not really the type of program.

 

[witness23]

apply to both.

applying to something does not mean that you would necessarily secure the job. I think a lot of us learn this the hard way (esp in the bad economy!), and if you want to start ASAP you would benefit by being more proactive. This also allows you to evaluate offers, and see where you are a better fit.

With that said, I'm in the same position as you, deciding between the offers from NIH labs, tech positions, the industry, and the possibility of just staying in my current lab.

Working at the NIH seems like you would have a chance to be independent in your research (I feel like this is very important for MD/PhD and also to those who have an ego). Being independent means you would be responsible for the direction of your research (somewhat - lets be realistic). This can be stressful if there is a time limit of a year or so to round up a project. You will also be responsible for coming in for your own cell culturing, etc (if that is required), which means that your job might not be strictly M-F 9-5, which may not allow for other scheduled activities on weekdays (volunteering) . However, at the NIH you do not have to always commit for 2 years, and can attend seminars, take a course and get a chance to interact with people of your own age. It is also in Bethesda, which can be quite expensive so apply early and email around so you can figure out your expenses.

You do have some options in choosing a lab. You should email PIs (as posters have said) that interest you (or just mass email). Many will not have positions/funding, but some may. If you have similar research exposure that is a plus. When it’s all said and done you should have a few offers (if you are active enough), and you can choose from your interview experiences. You may have the chance to work closely with the PI to earn a LOR and pubs. You will def. present your data. The stipend is in the mid 20ks, it is a student fellowship (you will not be paying medicare and social sec, i believe). Insurance is covered (once you graduate you may lose your health insurance in January if your parents do not have private care).

As for a technician position - salary will be higher. It will be upper 20k to 33K (Philly, DC, Boston, NY). At my job interviews the first thing they emphasized was that I would not receive an independent project but would be a support role, and can get credited for contributions. You will most likely look to work at universities, so you will have tuition reimbursement, benefits, and gym and library access. If you are really into it, you can attend journal clubs, etc. If you are set on going to this institute that you are lab tech at, you would be totally responsible for networking efforts - ie, emailing other PIs in the dept to ask for advice, etc. If you do not want to be involved at all, you do not have to be and you do not have to stress. However, you are considering MSTP so...


Another job that you can probably secure easily is in QA at local pharmas. If you are in cali, there should be plenty. I would contact staffing agencies. They will set you up with interviews, each one will be around 3-7 interviews. You will not be doing any research AT ALL and it probably wont benefit or hurt you for MD chances. However, I found the experience of interviewing to be quite helpful since you are going to get grilled on specifics of upper level chemistry (mostly PChem theory in instrumentation) by PhD holders and it's good practice. You also get to see how people work in the industry. It's looks pretty lame and boring. The amount of money they can offer can be quite significant, ranging from 40k-70k with benefits, so that may be something you want to consider. Genentech may even have research positions.


If you decide to email PIs at universities around to basically be a student hire, you will be paid like a student. I am currently doing that now. I can say that it has been a great experience and my mentor is helpful and such. I hold my own projects and there are technicians in the lab to help me out with the itch work. Our lab publishes a lot and I am looking at 2 first authors in JI, and a couple of more 2nd authors. That sounds great and all but I get paid 9/hr with absolutely no benefits. If you do not hold down a 2nd job at Kaplan or TPR, you will have to live with padres and depend on them for health insurance. There are pros and cons to everything. Since you are graduating, some of your friends will be holding down stable jobs, makin loot, parkinglot pimping, with no worries of attending medical school. The stress of having a low paying job, applying to medical schools, volunteering, shadowing, having a 2nd job, and interviewing should not be underestimated. It is definitely a great learning experience though.




So yea, I'm applying med in the summer probably and I have offers from IRTA, tech (at my current university in a huge translational dept at a philly school), industry, and the option to stay in my lab. My current PI might offer me full time but I'm not sure if I would stay - if he doesn't then I'm broke and I have to move on (after finishing my project). I am leaning towards the NIH because of the location, independence offered, and most importantly the ability to talk to people of my age group and background. If you decide on the lab tech or working at a local UNI, you will most likely be working with international post-docs and techs (one of my lab tech is a foreign MD/another a MBBS). I am still looking for more positions in different sectors, because why not - research can be tiring if you do it full time and make nothing.



Anyway, take the time to make a few different resumes and cover letters. Apply to a lot of jobs - def apply to NIH, theres no rule on who can really be accepted. At the NIH, some will even offer you a position out of their own funding if they like you. However, apply to a lot, and contact a few PIs. Even if you have offers, keep applying.You should apply for clinical positions as well. You never know what will happen.



This week alone - one PI at NIH that I met with and offered me a position in person emailed me and said that he didn't receive additional funding this year to staff me. J&J recruited me and said they were slashing jobs. Many places are in a hiring freeze; many PIs are waiting for the stimulus to make it rain. Apply broadly to jobs, as well as medical schools. You never know what you will end up liking. I do hope that you are very happy at this time next year, wherever you may be, with a better idea about life as a MD/PhD. I have a feeling that I'm probably not too hardcore to be a PI and would end up bouncing to the clinical side. Before my full time experience, I was really excited to go the physician scientist route.


Are you applying this summer? Or taking a year off and then applying. 2nd option is much more helpful. Oh and let me know if you need help contacting PIs or what kinda cover letters to use for IRTA.



GL!

 

[magwi11]

I think that the IRTA program is AMAZING and I highly recommend it. I also recommend that you take everything on that website with a grain of salt, the way hiring/hours/independence works is VERY PI dependent.

My major advice for IRTA application is CONTACT PIs YOU'RE INTERESTED IN. I know people that were basically hired before their application was even in the database because they had already spoken to and met with the PI that they wanted to work in. If you are proactive about finding labs that you are interested in that have openings, you will have MUCH more say in what you are doing. Just letting your application sit without calling PIs attention to it is not going to get you the attention that you want.

Take the job that offers the most independence, even if it isn't exactly in the area that you think that you want to end up in. Having the skills to take a project from start to finish will be a better selling point for you on the interview trail than experience in a particular technique/research area. In many cases, you'll get more independence as an IRTA because the program encourages it, but I do know people that spent their days basically as techs, so make sure that the PI knows what you are looking for and that he is willing to let you work on your own projects rather than just doing busy work for the postdocs.

Good luck.

 

[collinsc]

Having a letter from someone who's known in the research community is a HUGE plus and it doesn't matter where you are. I'd imagine that having a letter from a big name at Columbia would be much more beneficial than a letter from an asst prof at UCSD if you really wanted to go to UCSD. I'm working for a very well known (well connected) PI right now and I definitely attribute part of my success this cycle to his LOR. I was told by a coPD at an interview that it's a good thing I have his letter because, "no one knows your undergraduate PI, but everyone knows your current PI and I know what goes on behind closed doors." Name (not institute) counts in this game. Moreover, the NIH IRTA is a very reputable program and is looked at highly by ADCOMs.

So just a question... how do you know who is "known by everyone" I pretty much figured that who you know was a pretty big deal when it comes to this stuff hence why I am entertaining these ideas.

My major advice for IRTA application is CONTACT PIs YOU'RE INTERESTED IN. I know people that were basically hired before their application was even in the database because they had already spoken to and met with the PI that they wanted to work in. If you are proactive about finding labs that you are interested in that have openings, you will have MUCH more say in what you are doing. Just letting your application sit without calling PIs attention to it is not going to get you the attention that you want.

I plan to be really proactive with this. The only thing I dont know is when to actually put in my application since my lease ends in October and i can't move until then. Ideas?

apply to both.

applying to something does not mean that you would necessarily secure the job. I think a lot of us learn this the hard way (esp in the bad economy!), and if you want to start ASAP you would benefit by being more proactive. This also allows you to evaluate offers, and see where you are a better fit.
You do have some options in choosing a lab. You should email PIs (as posters have said) that interest you (or just mass email). Many will not have positions/funding, but some may. If you have similar research exposure that is a plus. When it's all said and done you should have a few offers (if you are active enough), and you can choose from your interview experiences. You may have the chance to work closely with the PI to earn a LOR and pubs. You will def. present your data.


Many places are in a hiring freeze; many PIs are waiting for the stimulus to make it rain. Apply broadly to jobs, as well as medical schools. You never know what you will end up liking.

Are you applying this summer? Or taking a year off and then applying. 2nd option is much more helpful. Oh and let me know if you need help contacting PIs or what kinda cover letters to use for IRTA.



GL!

I'll be taking you up on your offer. Sounds like a solid idea. The one thing is that I've been doing heart research for a little over 2 years now with my lab (fingers cross i'll be a co-author on a pub this summer) and I've done a summer research program at Mass General at their Cardiovascular Research Center (which was AMAZING, loved every second), so I'm really stuck on heart research. What I don't know is if they have positions (NIH or with other university (not local)). I'll PM you on details on what you actually sent to other universities that weren't local. I pretty much looked at a few schools in the midwest and west and came up with 66 (11 from NIH) that I wouldn't mind working with and I really don't mind writing to all of them if I have to. I just gotta get out of North Dakota lol.

BTW I'm taking a year off then applying next summer.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

So just a question... how do you know who is "known by everyone" I pretty much figured that who you know was a pretty big deal when it comes to this stuff hence why I am entertaining these ideas.

I'm interested in the answer to this as well. How do you go about figuring out who the big names are that would be good to work with and get an LOR from?

 

[bd4727]

Not to belabor the point, but there are many other advantages to the NIH IRTA v tech. IRTAs in general are paid more than their tech counterparts (this is definitely lab depending, I've met techs who get paid much more than me, but for the most part, they don't) and you get free health insurance and a transportation stipend. Also, it's a little more stable than a tech position. You're not subject to the whims of grants/funding and your job is more or less guaranteed for at least a year and up to two. Plus, having the structure of a program is very beneficial. You get many resources (including free classes, seminars, workshops, access to cool people) and you're in a huge community of other post-bacs (something a tech position can't offer). Also, I've had friends apply to schools where they were a technician thinking it would help them out and in the end, they were rejected (two of my friends who did this), so I'm not sure there's much credit to the whole 'foot in the door' thing unless you happen to work in the MSTP director's lab. Having a letter from someone who's known in the research community is a HUGE plus and it doesn't matter where you are. I'd imagine that having a letter from a big name at Columbia would be much more beneficial than a letter from an asst prof at UCSD if you really wanted to go to UCSD. I'm working for a very well known (well connected) PI right now and I definitely attribute part of my success this cycle to his LOR. I was told by a coPD at an interview that it's a good thing I have his letter because, "no one knows your undergraduate PI, but everyone knows your current PI and I know what goes on behind closed doors." Name (not institute) counts in this game. Moreover, the NIH IRTA is a very reputable program and is looked at highly by ADCOMs.

I did an NIH IRTA and am doing my PhD through the NIH-Oxford/Cambridge program, so I obviously think the NIH is great. However, all else being equal, MSTP admissions committees do not value time at NIH over another reputable medical school lab.

My point about working at a school you are interested in is based on the same ideas you outline-- admissions people take into consideration LORs written by people they know better than random PI. Very good chances that admissions people at MSTP will know some other prominent researecher at the same school. Less of a chance they will know some prominent researcher from some other school/NIH.

Its basically the same way we all decide what movies to watch. We watch movies that friends tell us we think we would like. We don't give a lot of creedence to random people's movie choices. It is human nature. That doesn't mean you will like all movies your friends recommend, and likewise working at that school doesn't mean you are gaurenteed in.

For residency applications, this phenomena has been well documented in surverys of residency directors. They consistently rate LORs from colleques as playing more of a factor in admissions than other LORs. Likewise, they rate LORs from department chairs higher than random faculty. Most interesting, they rate LORs from collegues higher than LORs from department chairs who aren't collegues. If you don't believe me, check out: [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Richard GV, Overton R, Englert CA, Ortiz N. Program Directors' Criteria for Selecting Residents. Paper presented at the Fourth Annual Association of American Medical Colleges Physician Workforce Research Conference, May 1, 2008, Crystal City. VA..

All I am saying is that it can only help to do research where you are dying to go, and that NIH is not > tech at a good medical school lab. But yes, NIH is a great place to spend a year no doubt.

 

[fairalexfield]

Agreed 🙂

both are wonderful options for a year off!

 

[collinsc]

So how do you know who are the PIs that everyone knows?

 

[collinsc]

Bump 🙂

 

[bd4727]

So how do you know who are the PIs that everyone knows?

It's relative. If you are interested in one particular field, ask someone in that department at your school who some of the big names are, they will know. You could look at who are the editors of journals you are interested in. Society presidents/past presidents. Department chairs. These kind of things. Harder to gauge are the "up and comming" stars. Again, ask around to people in the field.

 

[DocSublime]

Does anyone know if med schools give more credibility to the IRTA program vs. any other research tech jobs? Someone posted in 2005 that the acceptance rate for the applicants with IRTA experience is close to 90%. Can anyone verify this? I've already done a year of full time research at an undergrad institute and I am debating whether I should apply to IRTA or become an ophthalmic tech for one more year before applying. (Obviously, I enjoy doing research but more clinical exposure wouldn't hurt either.)

 

[Transformers]

Quick questions about NIH IRTA for postbaccs:

1.) When do you recommend that I should apply by and regarding reccs (does one have to be by a research prof?)
2.) How competitive is the process?...i
3.) I already contacted the chief of the branche I'd like to work in at the NCI (dermatology branch) to inquire about positions and also sent my resume... he responded that although its way too early, hell share my statement of interest and resume with all the faculty there. I hope that this was a right decision forward since I realize that I don't get a say to choose the lab/branch. However, if they state that they have openings, are they more than likely to select me asap once I turn in my app?....simply put, wouldnt this obviate the purpose of the app in the first place since im informally getting an informal email contract on the side haha?
4.) How does a faculty letter of recc help you when you apply for residency down the road?
5.) Whats usually the take home salary for your one year? (after living expenses + food and travel)

THANKS!

 

[bd4727]

Does anyone know if med schools give more credibility to the IRTA program vs. any other research tech jobs?

No. The only instance where this would possibly be the case, and even then I am not sure it would be, is NIH-post bac vs. research at some school no one has ever heard of.

Someone posted in 2005 that the acceptance rate for the applicants with IRTA experience is close to 90%. Can anyone verify this?

That is garbage. NIH OITE (Office of Intramural Training and Education) does not publish statistics like that about IRTAs. Most of the people who do IRTAs are already probably good candidates, so anecdotaly the acceptance rate is high for that reason.

I've already done a year of full time research at an undergrad institute and I am debating whether I should apply to IRTA or become an ophthalmic tech for one more year before applying. (Obviously, I enjoy doing research but more clinical exposure wouldn't hurt either.)

IRTA does not equal clinical exposure. IRTAs work in labs like anyone else. Many of the labs at NIH are pure basic science. If you wanted clinical exposure as an IRTA, you would either need to seek out a lab that does clinical research to work in, or find a clinical research on NIH campus and shadow that person. This is the same as doing research at medical school X.

All that aside, I really enjoyed doing an IRTA and found NIH intramural program to be a great place to spend a year (or more). So I am not discouraging you from appplying, just trying to dispell some myths that are out there about NIH IRTA program. But it is a great, well-run program.

 

[bd4727]

Quick questions about NIH IRTA for postbaccs:

1.) When do you recommend that I should apply by and regarding reccs (does one have to be by a research prof?)
2.) How competitive is the process?...i
3.) I already contacted the chief of the branche I'd like to work in at the NCI (dermatology branch) to inquire about positions and also sent my resume... he responded that although its way too early, hell share my statement of interest and resume with all the faculty there. I hope that this was a right decision forward since I realize that I don't get a say to choose the lab/branch. However, if they state that they have openings, are they more than likely to select me asap once I turn in my app?....simply put, wouldnt this obviate the purpose of the app in the first place since im informally getting an informal email contract on the side haha?
4.) How does a faculty letter of recc help you when you apply for residency down the road?
5.) Whats usually the take home salary for your one year? (after living expenses + food and travel)

THANKS!

Almost all of your questions are answered directly on the NIH IRTA "Faq" page. Just google it.

Regarding #3-- that is the best way of getting a position. Most people's applicaiton just sits in the system. You need to directly contact PIs-- NOT Branch chairs-- if you are interested in specifically working in that person's lab. Find 10 people who's lab you want to work in. Email them that you are interested no earlier than 6mo prior. 5 will not respond. 3 will say they don't have room/money for an IRTA. 2 will want to talk to you on the phone or something and then will work with you about setting something up. Although there is the formal application, the actually process is often much more informal (as I just described).

4 is not relevant at this point for you (or me), but all your letters will be from faculty anyway (either clinical or your research mentor). They are one of if not the most important component of your residency application, much like MD/PhD application.

5 depends on how much money you spend.

 

[collinsc]

Hey you guys,

I figured I would give an update on my decision as to whether I chose IRTA or Research Position. I decided to go for a research position for 2-3 years. I lived on the east coast for quite a while so I figured I was more interested in the midwest (where I live now) or west. Here is how my process went:

I'm interested in heart research (preferably translational heart research) and have done heart research for the past 2 years at my small public undergraduate university where I just recently graduated with my double major (2.5 years if you count the summer research internship I did at Mass General in cardiovascular research). So I looked up medical schools that I was interested in that were in cities wouldn't mind living for a while.

First, I had just looked up jobs on the medical schools employment site and applied. Didn't hear anything. Then I decided to be a little proactive.

I then looked up faculty members with my interest and then sent them an email with my CV and a nice cover letter for the message explaining my background and that I was interested in being apart of their lab. Guess what, my email started blowing up! I had so many responses, it shocked me! Whether they were interest emails or emails to say that they didn't have a lab position available but would pass my CV on to their colleagues I got some really great responses PLUS they were all in the field I was interested in. All of these responses were from some of the top 20 med schools in the nation, even some very top tier med schools which really excited me! I then did some phone interviews with some PIs and they wanted me to come down and visit. Had an AMAZING time meeting basically the entire cardiology department. Turns out that all of the labs at that particular med school that interviewed me wanted to give me an offer for a position and I got to decide which one I wanted. Plus I get to work directly under my PI on an amazing project that is from bench to bedside which is exactly what I wanted!

Moral of the story: Be proactive whether you want to choose research position or IRTA position and make sure you visit them in person before you make a decision! It was definitely an eye opening experience.

Open to PMs if you guys have any specific questions! Good Luck!