No Idea How Schools Will View My Application...

[romealone]

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hi guys,
like many of the non-trads I see here, I am unsure as to how schools will view my application and what my chances of success will be given the details of my application. I would really appreciate some input.

I am 31 and graduated 10 years ago from a well respected university. I graduated with a 3.35 GPA and unfortunately I took a total of 3 lab sciences my freshman year and received C's in all 3 of them.

Fast forward to present time.

I have gone back to a local university to take the science pre-recs, including repeating the 3 courses which I took 10 years ago in which I received C's.
Since returning to school I have earned a 3.8 GPA in my science courses.
However, when you factor in the 3 C's I earned back in 1997-1998, it brings my science GPA down from a 3.8 all the way down to a 3.3.
The recent science courses I have taken have brought my overall GPA up slightly from my original 3.35 t0 a 3.46.

Since I have returned to school I have only taken Bio I and II, Gen Chem I and II, and Physics I and II. I have not yet taken any Orgo.
However, I decided to self-teach myself Orgo this summer so that I could take the MCATS and apply to med-schools late this summer for admission for fall of 2011. I scored a 31Q on my MCATS (10's in bio and phys, 11 in verbal).
As I said, my plan is to get my applications out late this summer for admission into fall of 2011. I will then take Orgo this coming year so that I will have completed the required pre-recs by first day of class of fall 2011.

My letters of rec are quite strong and I have good EC's with lots of experience volunteering in various health-care environments.

Basically I am concerned about 2 things.
1-Even though my GPA has been very good since going back to school (3.8), when you factor in the science courses I took 10 years ago it brings my science GPA down to a 3.3 and my overall is 3.46.

2-Secondly, I am worried that I have not yet taken orgo. I decided not to enroll in orgo this summer so that I could learn it on my own time so that I had sufficient time to study the other areas of the MCAT. I thought that if I enrolled in summer orgo it would not leave me time to study the other subjects.

So I was able to teach myself orgo well enough to score a 31 on the MCATS, but Im concerned that schools will NOT like the fact that I have not yet actually taken orgo.

So given all of this info, what do you guys think? I plan on applying to both MD and DO programs. Do you think MD programs are out of reach for me?

I just really hope that those stupid C's from my science courses 10 years ago don't get in the way of my acceptance. It was such a long time ago, but the fact is that they still bring down my science GPA considerably.
Thanks in advance- Romealone

 

[AcclratngCharge]

hi guys,
like many of the non-trads I see here, I am unsure as to how schools will view my application and what my chances of success will be given the details of my application. I would really appreciate some input.

I am 31 and graduated 10 years ago from a well respected university. I graduated with a 3.35 GPA and unfortunately I took a total of 3 lab sciences my freshman year and received C's in all 3 of them.

Fast forward to present time.

I have gone back to a local university to take the science pre-recs, including repeating the 3 courses which I took 10 years ago in which I received C's.
Since returning to school I have earned a 3.8 GPA in my science courses.
However, when you factor in the 3 C's I earned back in 1997-1998, it brings my science GPA down from a 3.8 all the way down to a 3.3.
The recent science courses I have taken have brought my overall GPA up slightly from my original 3.35 t0 a 3.46.

Since I have returned to school I have only taken Bio I and II, Gen Chem I and II, and Physics I and II. I have not yet taken any Orgo.
However, I decided to self-teach myself Orgo this summer so that I could take the MCATS and apply to med-schools late this summer for admission for fall of 2011. I scored a 31Q on my MCATS (10's in bio and phys, 11 in verbal).
As I said, my plan is to get my applications out late this summer for admission into fall of 2011. I will then take Orgo this coming year so that I will have completed the required pre-recs by first day of class of fall 2011.

My letters of rec are quite strong and I have good EC's with lots of experience volunteering in various health-care environments.

Basically I am concerned about 2 things.
1-Even though my GPA has been very good since going back to school (3.8), when you factor in the science courses I took 10 years ago it brings my science GPA down to a 3.3 and my overall is 3.46.

2-Secondly, I am worried that I have not yet taken orgo. I decided not to enroll in orgo this summer so that I could learn it on my own time so that I had sufficient time to study the other areas of the MCAT. I thought that if I enrolled in summer orgo it would not leave me time to study the other subjects.

So I was able to teach myself orgo well enough to score a 31 on the MCATS, but Im concerned that schools will NOT like the fact that I have not yet actually taken orgo.

So given all of this info, what do you guys think? I plan on applying to both MD and DO programs. Do you think MD programs are out of reach for me?

I just really hope that those stupid C's from my science courses 10 years ago don't get in the way of my acceptance. It was such a long time ago, but the fact is that they still bring down my science GPA considerably.
Thanks in advance- Romealone

You would have a much better shot if you prepared your application for next year and submitted it on the first possible day. Most people turn their apps in really early, and they have a better chance of getting in. And then your GPA will be higher with an A in orgo and your pre-reqs will be done. Just my opinion.

 

[romealone]

Thanks for the response.
However what you suggested was not possible in my situation.
I just completed my Gen Chem and Physics requirements this spring (and did my Bio last summer). I needed to use this summer to teach myself orgo, prepare for the MCATS, take the MCATS, and prepare my application.

I know that it is always best to get your application in as early as possible, but since I needed to use this summer to get all of the things I mentioned accomplished, I am forced to get my applications in at the end of this summer (for admission into fall 2011).
I was under the impression that getting my apps in late August/early Sept, was not really considered "late". Am I wrong about this?

Regardless, what's done is done at this point, and I would really appreciate some opinons regarding what my chances are at both MD and DO programs given the info I provided in my first post. Thanks-Romealone

 

[MexicanDr]

As it was suggested, I believe that waiting and applying next year will be best for you. Your cGPA is not bad, but because is not in the 3.5+, applying early is considering having the best shot, or so I have learned here in SDN.

Also, why not take Ochem 1/2 and also add Biochemistry, maybe even Genetics and Cell Biology? Adding some upper level science courses will be a good move to try and remove some of the attention of those Cs; these courses will also be beneficial first year of med school.

Again, this is something I would do.

 

[romealone]

As it was suggested, I believe that waiting and applying next year will be best for you. Your cGPA is not bad, but because is not in the 3.5+, applying early is considering having the best shot, or so I have learned here in SDN.

Also, why not take Ochem 1/2 and also add Biochemistry, maybe even Genetics and Cell Biology? Adding some upper level science courses will be a good move to try and remove some of the attention of those Cs; these courses will also be beneficial first year of med school.

Again, this is something I would do.

Thanks for the advice, and if I do not get accepted this application round (for fall of 2011), then I will take some upper level courses in addition to the orgo that I must take in order to fulfill the pre-recs.

However, the whole point of my arranging my schedule in the manner which I did was to allow for me to apply for this application cycle. I reasoned that if I could self-teach myself orgo and do well on the MCATS, then it would allow me to apply this summer instead of waiting a whole extra year to apply.

I really just want to get a sense of how much my undergrad work from 10 years ago will come into play when schools regard my application. Speaking honestly I feel that it is fairly absurd to place any emphasis on what someone did 10 years ago (good or bad). I have received all A's in my science courses since returning to school, but unfortunately the C's I got in those 3 science courses in 1997-1998 DO bring my science GPA down to a 3.3 and my overall GPA to a 3.46. I just wonder how schools will weigh my coursework from 10 years ago.-Romealone

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Ok. This is driving me nuts. It is the MCAT not the MCATS. Honesly, you are better off waiting if you are planning on MD only, but you seem pretty strong for DO this year.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I was under the impression that getting my apps in late August/early Sept, was not really considered "late". Am I wrong about this?

There are making two mistakes ( in my opinion ). Firstly, you are planning on taking the MCAT after "teaching yourself" organic. I tried this and it cost me at least 3 points.

Secondly, yes you are wrong about the timeline of application. Completing your secondaries in September guarantees that you will miss the first round of interviews. It is possible to get in the way that you describe, but you have decreased your chances significantly. You have a possibility, but not a probability of getting in this way. You are probably going to be a re-applicant next year.

That being the case, why decrease next year's chances by taking the MCAT too early this year ( MCAT scores are not replaceable, they never go away. You can re-take, but the old scores are averaged in).

If you took organic chemistry this fall and spring and take some cell biology, genetics, and physiology at the same time, you have time to thoroughly study for the MCAT at take it next May and really ace it and raise your chances of getting in to 70 to 80 %.

 

[romealone]

There are making two mistakes ( in my opinion ). Firstly, you are planning on taking the MCAT after "teaching yourself" organic. I tried this and it cost me at least 3 points.

Secondly, yes you are wrong about the timeline of application. Completing your secondaries in September guarantees that you will miss the first round of interviews. It is possible to get in the way that you describe, but you have decreased your chances significantly. You have a possibility, but not a probability of getting in this way. You are probably going to be a re-applicant next year.

That being the case, why decrease next year's chances by taking the MCAT too early this year ( MCAT scores are not replaceable, they never go away. You can re-take, but the old scores are averaged in).

If you took organic chemistry this fall and spring and take some cell biology, genetics, and physiology at the same time, you have time to thoroughly study for the MCAT at take it next May and really ace it and raise your chances of getting in to 70 to 80 %.

Point taken, but did you miss the fact that I stated that I took the MCAT already? I scored 31 on it. Im sure u are right that had I actually enrolled in orgo as opposed to teaching myself, I may have scored a bit higher, but I was fairly happy with my performance.

 

[eablackwell]

The op either has a small jewel in his tummy or he is just really rude. People are just giving you their opinion. Calm down, it will all be okay.

 

[Bernoull]

Point taken, but did you miss the fact that I stated that I took the MCAT already? I scored 31 on it. Im sure u are right that had I actually enrolled in orgo as opposed to teaching myself, I may have scored a bit higher, but I was fairly happy with my performance.

Good job on the MCAT, that's a strong showing. I think ur gpa will be fine especially given the upward trend. How's ur clinical exposure and volunteering (i may have missed that in ur post). If everything else is good to go, thenby all means apply. Be wise with ur school selection, and you have nothing to worry about lack of Orgo or any other prereq as long as u complete them b4 matriculation.

GL

 

[Nasrudin]

The op either has a small jewel in his tummy or he is just really rude. People are just giving you their opinion. Calm down, it will all be okay.

?. Uh. Wait. what?

Anyway. OK to the OP.

What matters is what you feel about spending the money to apply. You're late as of now. The clock is ticking. Why does that matter. Because there's a bunch of admissions people across the country fresh back from wherever after closing down last cycle's waitlists. And there about as likely as they will be all season to look further into an application to see if they can find a reason to keep it. And let's face it you need a reason to be not thrown out with your gpa. I know. Imma tell you like Judge Mathis. Low GPA. I've been there. Second chances. I got one. But barely. And I was out of the gate like greyhound in heat.

Why do they hold some old **** against you. Stuff that doesn't even pertain to what you're puttin on the table now. I don't know. But they sure enough do. The little vengeful weanies. Anyway it's nothin personal. There's a line around the corner and down the block. They know that. So it's....Next!!! before you get a chance to explain a thing.

So good that your letters are strong. You'll need that. But you ought to give serious thought to getting your science gpa higher. Then applying. Do you really want to spend all that money again. Get all new LOR's again. Write all new sencondaries again.

You're in decent shape for DO schools. Your looking to beat the odds to get into MD schools. Nobody here. I mean f'n nobody. Not even our resident adcomms can tell you your chances. They tried to tell me I should pack up and go home early. But here I is. That doesn't mean I wandered half-hazardly into a dirty street fight. Whistlin Mayberry. Like you are now by being late. You dig?

Go for it. But consider when to throw your punches. Because you've only got so many and each time you throw em. You spend your energy. And leave yourself open for loosing the momentum in the fight.

 

[Nasrudin]

Oh and your MCAT. A solid balanced 31. Nothing to be ashamed of. But this stuff is getting more and more competitive every year.

31 is average. For Upper Crust MD school's--for those who traffic in such ideas--you're score is points below average.

Nothing wrong with taking you're shot. And you get my respect for the guts to do so. But know what you got.

 

[MexicanDr]

A little off topic, but how did you manage to learn Ochem in just a summer? What did you use to learn it?

 

[EdLongshanks]

Point taken, but did you miss the fact that I stated that I took the MCAT already? I scored 31 on it. Im sure u are right that had I actually enrolled in orgo as opposed to teaching myself, I may have scored a bit higher, but I was fairly happy with my performance.

Yes, I missed that. Sorry. So you've already got a sufficient MCAT to apply to schools. Since you already have that medium MCAT on your record to go along with the medium GPA, then there is no reason except money to not apply this year. You might be right in the middle of your state school's stats.

There is no way to predict how your experience will turn out. There is no sense on putting percentages on it, because the percentages in the end n=1 and the percentage was either 100% or 0%.

For those lurkers who are making their plans for the future. Don't rush! A one year delay can make a big difference.

 

[nabeel76]

To answer your question on whether are not they will forgive old grades - they will not forgive them, but they will place less emphasis on them if 1) you adequately explained them and 2) you've taken a sufficient amount of upper level courses following those to prove that you can handle the subject matter. Trust me - i have one really bad semester from approximately 15 years ago.

For your situation I have a couple of suggestions.

1) You've already got your MCAT score back, why is it going to take you so long to apply? It's early July, and the way I look at it you should be able to get a good number of secondaries in this month. With your numbers, the sooner you get them in - the better your chances.

2) If you have the money go ahead and give it a shot, but I am not so sure you've sufficiently satisfied item number 2 listed above. You stated that you've taken Bio I and II, Chem I and II, and Physics I and II, with a 3.8 GPA. This is good, but when you consider the fact that 3 of those 6 lecture courses are repeats, regardless of how long ago you've taken them, its not as impressive anymore. To add to that, the only upper level science of the prereqs (Organic Chemistry) you have not yet taken.

I would recommend applying to med school as soon as possible this summer AND also enrolling in some upper level science courses for the Fall semester. Since your going to be a later applicant, and your numbers are not all that great, there is a strong chance that your not going to know if you have an acceptance until well into next years spring semester. If you don't get an acceptance, then it'll be too late to take any classes at that point, as you'd of already missed the fall and spring semester courses. And then, unless you take an additional year off to take upper levels, you'll be applying with practically the same app. again.

So if your goal is MD - register for fall classes, if your goal is either MD or DO this year then you've got a shot at MD and will probably get DO and you can forget about the upper levels.

 

[Nasrudin]

Yes, I missed that. Sorry. So you've already got a sufficient MCAT to apply to schools. Since you already have that medium MCAT on your record to go along with the medium GPA, then there is no reason except money to not apply this year. You might be right in the middle of your state school's stats.

There is no way to predict how your experience will turn out. There is no sense on putting percentages on it, because the percentages in the end n=1 and the percentage was either 100% or 0%.

For those lurkers who are making their plans for the future. Don't rush! A one year delay can make a big difference.

Ed. With a 3.4 cum and a 3.3 science gpa. For MD schools without the grade replacement. This applicant is below the mean for the majority of schools in this country. State or otherwise. A fairly large majority if my MSAR mental notes are not too faded. But I completely agree with your recommendations for future applicants.

 

[MacVA]

So a 3.3 sci gpa/3.4 cum. gpa and a 31 MCAT... seems right on the borderline... but I believe it really depends on your state of residency... Would you disclose that information?

 

[sassilysweet]

Not to start an argument on the topic, but if you are disadvantaged/URM your odds might be better than what you are hearing from everyone

Grades and MCAT aside, what is your work/volunteer/shadowing/clinical history? Because if you don't have sufficient hours in those areas, the whole numbers-talk is moot.

 

[romealone]

Not to start an argument on the topic, but if you are disadvantaged/URM your odds might be better than what you are hearing from everyone

Grades and MCAT aside, what is your work/volunteer/shadowing/clinical history? Because if you don't have sufficient hours in those areas, the whole numbers-talk is moot.

Sorry it took me so long to reply, I have not been on SDN in awhile.

To answer your question, yes I am an URM (african-american), however I really do NOT want to state that I am african-american on my application because I am very much aware that my application will be looked at more favorably. I know I know, that sounds insane but I happen to be one those URM's who is 100% against the practice of favoring an applicant based upon racial identity, and if I do state that I am african-american, I will always wonder if I was accepted into a school due to the color of my skin instead of my actual merit as an applicant.

This puts me in a difficult situation because as I stated, I do not want to receive the benefit of extra consideration due to the color of my skin, but I assume that I must be honest regarding all aspects of my application, including my racial identity. Can I choose to omit my race in my application, or must all applicants list their racial identity? Thanks.

 

[sugaree]

There are making two mistakes ( in my opinion ). Firstly, you are planning on taking the MCAT after "teaching yourself" organic. I tried this and it cost me at least 3 points.

Secondly, yes you are wrong about the timeline of application. Completing your secondaries in September guarantees that you will miss the first round of interviews. It is possible to get in the way that you describe, but you have decreased your chances significantly. You have a possibility, but not a probability of getting in this way. You are probably going to be a re-applicant next year.

That being the case, why decrease next year's chances by taking the MCAT too early this year ( MCAT scores are not replaceable, they never go away. You can re-take, but the old scores are averaged in).

If you took organic chemistry this fall and spring and take some cell biology, genetics, and physiology at the same time, you have time to thoroughly study for the MCAT at take it next May and really ace it and raise your chances of getting in to 70 to 80 %.

Actually, you wont be "complete" until at least six weeks after submitting AAMC app. most schools don't send secondary apps till your app is verified and it takes at least four to six weeks. I didn't get me app submitted until first week of July, only four weeks after it opened, and it still is not verified.

So that means not even being sent secondaries till October and then they have to go through those...

 

[TFS]

no one really knows if MD programs are out of reach for you, but it is pretty late in the cycle. AMCAS verification takes forever, writing a PS takes forever... the whole process is exhausting, so i'd personally just apply next year really early.

 

[romealone]

no one really knows if MD programs are out of reach for you, but it is pretty late in the cycle. AMCAS verification takes forever, writing a PS takes forever... the whole process is exhausting, so i'd personally just apply next year really early.

hmmm. Is the AACOMAS verification process known to be much briefer? The reason I ask is that most people I have spoken with have stated that their AACOMAS primaries took around a week to be verified. I was therefore surprised to see that people here stating that AAMCAS verification takes a month or more.

 

[TFS]

^
no idea about AACOMAS, i only did AMCAS. i submitted it in mid june, and it took 2 weeks. i'm going to guess it will take longer now, since at that point, it was still relatively early. also, AMCAS requires official transcripts sent from your schools before they'll even start reviewing your application. just something to consider.

i'm not sure if this is true, but i would venture a guess that AMCAS is slower simply because they get more applications.

 

[student1799]

Can I choose to omit my race in my application, or must all applicants list their racial identity? Thanks.

I suppose you can leave it off, but why would you want to? Since you are a URM, and you want to get into med school, I think you'd be crazy not to check URM. Take any advantage you're legally entitled to, and don't worry about whether you "deserve" it or not. You're applying to med school because you think you're worthy of being a doctor, right? So if you think you'd be a good doctor, you "deserve" to get in.

There are way more qualified applicants than seats in med school, so schools don't have to take anyone unqualified just to fill their class.