No II's, complete August 1st

[plshelpvanxious]

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Am I being silently rejected?

I've heard that no invites by thanksgiving is usually bad news, but what applicants who were compete early in the cycle? Should they start panicking earlier?

 

[Lawpy]

I actually thought the turkey deadline was too early. But I believe the deadline is for applicants who were complete early and maybe just before Labor Day. Applicants complete after Labor Day may need to wait longer for interview invites since they are late.

In any case, I wouldn’t lose hope, but instead keep improving and strengthening your application during the cycle.

 

[Mwooster]

Am I being silently rejected?

I've heard that no invites by thanksgiving is usually bad news, but what applicants who were compete early in the cycle? Should they start panicking earlier?

Still very early in the cycle. Prescribing you Chill Pills 250,000 mg tabs, #30

 

[•Syzygy•]

I actually thought the turkey deadline was too early. But I believe the deadline is for applicants who were complete early and maybe just before Labor Day. Applicants complete after Labor Day may need to wait longer for interview invites since they are late.

In any case, I wouldn’t lose hope, but instead keep improving and strengthening your application during the cycle.

i think the thanksgiving thing means if you haven't gotten a single interview invite by then. but i think its pretty common for people to get invites in december and maybe even january

 

[Lawpy]

i think the thanksgiving thing means if you haven't gotten a single interview invite by then. but i think its pretty common for people to get invites in december and maybe even january

I know and i think it's too early. It would make sense to set the deadline in Christmas rather than in Thanksgiving.

Regardless, these are just heuristics and not absolute rules.

 

[plshelpvanxious]

Thanks. Lol as soon as I posted I realized I needed a massive chill pill

 

[Goro]

Am I being silently rejected?

I've heard that no invites by thanksgiving is usually bad news, but what applicants who were compete early in the cycle? Should they start panicking earlier?

Patience is a virtue, the need for instant gratification is not.


Schools stratify the apps as they come in and don't send out IIs merely in chronological order.

 

[seedbrage]

I've been complete everywhere since late July / early August, just received my first invite 12 days ago. No rejections or holds so I assume that some schools just haven't gotten to my file yet and others have me on silent hold. You could probably surmise the same for your application. Give it time I suppose.

 

[Medic741]

DO!

 

[BuckStrickland]

I submitted early too I think we should be very worried

 

[bananafish94]

You're fine! One of my dear friends from college is currently attending the school where he interviewed in the late spring (his only interview).

 

[•Syzygy•]

I submitted early too I think we should be very worried

alarmist

 

[Groy]

MS1 here. During my app cycle I received did not receive IIs until November and and some as late as early March. You're gonna be fine.

 

[BuckStrickland]

MS1 here. During my app cycle I received did not receive IIs until November and and some as late as early March. You're gonna be fine.

but were you complete late july/ early august?

 

[Groy]

but were you complete late july/ early august?

Complete at every school I applied to before mid August. Many in late July, many in early August.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Patience is a virtue, the need for instant gratification is not.


Schools stratify the apps as they come in and don't send out IIs merely in chronological order.

I think I know this quote by heart.

 

[Danny L]

I actually thought the turkey deadline was too early. But I believe the deadline is for applicants who were complete early and maybe just before Labor Day. Applicants complete after Labor Day may need to wait longer for interview invites since they are late.

In any case, I wouldn’t lose hope, but instead keep improving and strengthening your application during the cycle.

I thought late september-early october was nearing the late period. Pretty sure early to mid september is "on time"

 

[ciestar]

I thought late september-early october was nearing the late period. Pretty sure early to mid september is "on time"

He is referring to II. You're talking about getting your application into schools. I'd be really worried if not getting an II by late September was "late".

 

[Lawpy]

I thought late september-early october was nearing the late period. Pretty sure early to mid september is "on time"

He is referring to II. You're talking about getting your application into schools. I'd be really worried if not getting an II by late September was "late".

So all these “holiday rules” that @LizzyM provided are just guidelines and not absolute rules. I think the deadlines set are too early but still serve as good references.

The Labor Day rule says you should complete all your application requirements (including sending letters and secondaries) before Labor Day to be considered on time. After Labor Day, you’re getting late because many schools, especially the super rolling ones, are sending out many interview invites. Others think early September is still early to be complete and the ideal date is somewhere in late September.

The Thanksgiving rule says if you don’t receive an interview invite by Thanksgiving, you should consider plans to reapply. It’s just a gentle reminder that tells us already what we know: you should still improve your application during the cycle and prepare for the worst (having to reapply) while hoping for the best (getting accepted).

For a borderline applicant who wants to get in for sure with a good list or for anyone who wants to play safe, this is what I think is an ideal timeline:

1. Submit AMCAS primary in early June so your primary will be verified and sent to schools late June

2. Get all the letters ready months in advance, and especially find out when the committee sends their letter

3. Regardless of 2, prewrite all secondaries ahead of time to prevent secondary fatigue and to submit everything back to schools and be complete in early to mid July.

Being complete in July is early. In August it’s on time. And in September after Labor Day is getting a bit late. Early completions get early interviews and early opportunities on getting final decisions (so early acceptances). This is a general idea from an application complete viewpoint.

The actual timing of interview invites varies greatly from school to school. I’d say getting an invite after January or so is getting late.

 

[CloverBale]

No II? Get in line

 

[Kingsmen2018]

Patience is a virtue, the need for instant gratification is not.


Schools stratify the apps as they come in and don't send out IIs merely in chronological order.

I feel like I've read this 22838293 times on this website

 

[Goro]

I feel like I've read this 22838293 times on this website

Too many pre-meds with the attitude of "I've submitted my app; where are my interviews????", as if they're God's gift to Medicine.

 

[Kingsmen2018]

Too many pre-meds with the attitude of "I've submitted my app; where are my interviews????", as if they're God's gift to Medicine.

I'm Guilty as charged.

 

[MareNostrummm]

Maybe schools should screen harder so they don't have their work flow clogged with applicants they were going to reject anyway.

 

[•Syzygy•]

Maybe schools should screen harder so they don't have their work flow clogged with applicants they were going to reject anyway.

oh but then they wouldnt get that sweet sweet extra cash from all those hopefuls....

sigh at the world

 

[Piglet2020]

What % of Medical Schools have you heard back from?

Relax. Most people heard back from only 0-25% of their schools.

 

[flyboy3]

No II? Get in line

What % of Medical Schools have you heard back from?

Relax. Most people heard back from only 0-25% of their schools.

I wonder what proportion of schools will wait until the last minute to reject applicants...

 

[Dantes]

Too many pre-meds with the attitude of "I've submitted my app; where are my interviews????", as if they're God's gift to Medicine.

Or they're just stressed out over a process that costs thousands of dollars with relative uncertainty and lack of transparency.

 

[Goro]

Or they're just stressed out over a process that costs thousands of dollars with relative uncertainty and lack of transparency.

I fail to see where stress leads to a massive sense of entitlement.

 

[Dantes]

I fail to see where stress leads to a massive sense of entitlement.

...I agree? Just saying people don't believe they're deserving of interviews because they're "God's gift to medicine." It's more of a neurotic attempt at seeking clarity relative to others in the same process.

 

[•Syzygy•]

...I agree? Just saying people don't believe they're deserving of interviews because they're "God's gift to medicine." It's more of a neurotic attempt at seeking clarity relative to others in the same process.

i think goro may be mostly referring to those people on here who were asking about interviews 2 weeks after they submitted their app. i saw this all over the place lol

 

[bananafish94]

I don't see very much entitlement on SDN, in my opinion. I think that posts that some might interpret as entitled or expectant I would characterize as frustrated or nervous about a very stressful and opaque process.

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

Patience is a virtue, the need for instant gratification is not.


Schools stratify the apps as they come in and don't send out IIs merely in chronological order.

Funny how this guy will use this same pre scripted quotation every year around this time, yet on another thread, he will say that roughly 1/2 of all IIs have already been sent out and that you can expect available slots to decline even more in the immediate weeks to come. Seems like pretty contradictory advice. He has also said that by thanksgiving, 90% of IIs have been sent and from there on, all you are hoping for is to get a "late interview" in the case that someone withdraws their app in the spring.

 

[MareNostrummm]

Funny how this guy will use this same pre scripted quotation every year around this time, yet on another thread, he will say that roughly 1/2 of all IIs have already been sent out and that you can expect available slots to decline even more in the immediate weeks to come. Seems like pretty contradictory advice. He has also said that by thanksgiving, 90% of IIs have been sent and from there on, all you are hoping for is to get a "late interview" in the case that someone withdraws their app in the spring.

Link to the "90% of IIs out by Thanksgiving"?

 

[plshelpvanxious]

I didn't intend for this thread to turn into a discussion on entitlement. I guess I just needed someome to tell me to chill out.

It's hard not to start panicking when I've invested thousands of dollars into getting into medical school and heared info like "X% interviews given out my thankgiving." SDN sometimes helps, but school's aren't always very transparent about their application review process. I was just thinking that maybe I had done something wrong, and I was worried about silent rejections.

I certainly don't think I'm god's gift to medicie, although I am excited to learn to be a great doctor.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

So all these “holiday rules” that @LizzyM provided are just guidelines and not absolute rules. I think the deadlines set are too early but still serve as good references.

Not absolute, but a noticed trend. There have been some first-received IIs after Thanksgiving, but I think the thought-process is that if an applicant has applied to a reasonable number of schools and no one has issued an II by Thanksgiving, then more-likely-than-not, the app is flawed in some way and it will likely be a failed cycle.

But, yes, there are exceptions. As mentioned, schools stratify apps. So, imagine you're from a lucky state with a good app, but borderline stats. It's not too far-fetched to think that the first (and maybe only) II might come after Tday.

I wonder what proportion of schools will wait until the last minute to reject applicants...

Don't know the proportion, but some schools never send rejections....crickets all the way thru to their white coat ceremonies.

 

[Potentia Virtus]

I don't think most people feel "entitled." That word seems to indicate that you want something that you didn't earn. I think most people here think they have EARNED the right for a chance to become a doctor. And a lot of us are right. I know for me personally it's been a long hard struggle. Years of dedication and of self-deprivation to put in all the hard work into volunteering, research, working, studying, etc. in the hopes that someday it will all be worth it and that we can do what we love. Then we spend thousands of dollars and put ourselves through the emotional wood chipper that is this god-awful application process. So yeah, sometimes we get a bit impatient after several months of not hearing anything. We are scared. Scared that all of our time, effort, and money may have been wasted. Scared that after all that work we might be left with nothing and have to start over to find a new career.

 

[calivianya]

Too many pre-meds with the attitude of "I've submitted my app; where are my interviews????", as if they're God's gift to Medicine.

I'd just be okay hearing one way or the other. I could literally start my alternate career idea as soon as I worked out my notice at my current job and could make probably double the money I'm making right now, but my alternate plan's not very friendly to going to interviews, so... I can't do it until I hear back from every school I'd be willing to attend. If I do hear back at all. It would just be nice to know right now if I wasn't going to get in anywhere so I could get on with my life... I've decided I'm really tired of my current job and would leave it in a heartbeat except the seniority is super helpful with scheduling/finding other people to switch shifts with. So I just feel trapped by this whole process.

I don't think many of us think we're God's gift to medicine.

 

[Goro]

I'd just be okay hearing one way or the other. I could literally start my alternate career idea as soon as I worked out my notice at my current job and could make probably double the money I'm making right now, but my alternate plan's not very friendly to going to interviews, so... I can't do it until I hear back from every school I'd be willing to attend. If I do hear back at all. It would just be nice to know right now if I wasn't going to get in anywhere so I could get on with my life... I've decided I'm really tired of my current job and would leave it in a heartbeat except the seniority is super helpful with scheduling/finding other people to switch shifts with. So I just feel trapped by this whole process.

I don't think many of us think we're God's gift to medicine.

SDNers should not make the mistake of thinking that a med school can fill its class of 100-250 seats in a month, much less even assign interviews, or even less, read 7000-15000 apps over the course of 2-3 months, especially when, during the summer, not all staff are present for duty.

A faculty job search can take just as long as the app cycle for med students! In my own case, I applied for my current job in Dec, when I saw the ad in Science, had my interview in March, and was hired in April.

 

[DBC03]

I'm fine with waiting, but I think many of us are wondering if we are just terrible applicants or wrote something bad in our applications or made some serious error in our choices, etc. Imposter syndrome has set in.

 

[BuckStrickland]

Link to the "90% of IIs out by Thanksgiving"?

So should we be worried or not xD

 

[catmullclark]

From what I’ve read after lurking around is that most of the earlier interview invites are sent out to outstanding applicants. Generally, it also seems that many schools categorize their applicants into several piles, one being ‘outstanding applicants’ and other piles being ‘great’, ‘good’, etc.

So while it can seem as though interview invites are going out at lightning speed, I think that you should keep in mind the volume of applicants from this forum who fit into the ‘outstanding applicant’ category and are at a point where they are comfortable with sharing this information online. The majority of students, I would expect, will hear back more in the months to come.

A friend of mine received her *first* interview invite at the end of October and is now at a top 20 medical school in the USA. Don’t throw in the towel until the chance is 0%.

 

[MareNostrummm]

From what I’ve read after lurking around is that most of the earlier interview invites are sent out to outstanding applicants. Generally, it also seems that many schools categorize their applicants into several piles, one being ‘outstanding applicants’ and other piles being ‘great’, ‘good’, etc.

So while it can seem as though interview invites are going out at lightning speed, I think that you should keep in mind the volume of applicants from this forum who fit into the ‘outstanding applicant’ category and are at a point where they are comfortable with sharing this information online. The majority of students, I would expect, will hear back more in the months to come.

A friend of mine received her *first* interview invite at the end of October and is now at a top 20 medical school in the USA. Don’t throw in the towel until the chance is 0%.

Also even though the "outstanding applicants" receive 10+ interviews they probably won't attend all of them and in the end can only hold 1 acceptance.

 

[•Syzygy•]

Costs to a school (or anybody) are time, money, and resources. So how many resources are being used for how cost (as FTE or full time equivalent) for how time per application

It takes anywhere from 4-8 hours of person-hours to process and review an application. At a professional level ($60K or higher), that is at minimum $30 per hour of work. So each application that is processed cost between $120 and $240. This does not include overhead costs for computer systems/support and processing/rejection of incomplete applications nor does it include the cost of actually interviewing candidates which can run from $500-$2500 (or more with MMI). So at say $1000 per interviewed candidate with 500 applicants, another $50,000. Applications are cost center loss for medical schools.

sure but isnt this a sign of a much larger problem in this country ?

 

[daisydukes99]

Costs to a school (or anybody) are time, money, and resources. So how many resources are being used for how cost (as FTE or full time equivalent) for how time per application

It takes anywhere from 4-8 hours of person-hours to process and review an application. At a professional level ($60K or higher), that is at minimum $30 per hour of work. So each application that is processed cost between $120 and $240. This does not include overhead costs for computer systems/support and processing/rejection of incomplete applications nor does it include the cost of actually interviewing candidates which can run from $500-$2500 (or more with MMI). So at say $1000 per interviewed candidate with 500 applicants, another $50,000. Applications are cost center loss for medical schools.

As a long time lurker, I want to thank you for the time you spend posting. I find all your posts extremely informative and useful. I can completely see that the applications are a cost center loss given how much time is spent on evaluation. I just have 2 observations. 1 It really does seem to me that the "open" secondaries are a great place to start addressing this problem. I understand the whole "holistic" approach to reviewing but come on. There are certain stat thresholds under which schools are not going to admit someone. Why have them go through the work and expense of submitting a secondary? 2. The oft discussed fact on here of certain schools that NEVER bother to send a response is simply inexcusable. It is disrespectful and dismissive of an applicant's time and financial investment in applying. If a school states every application gets reviewed than come on, at the very least, send a form letter rejection at some point.

 

[Welshman]

Patience is a virtue, the need for instant gratification is not.


Schools stratify the apps as they come in and don't send out IIs merely in chronological order.

this advice was very comforting earlier in the cycle when people were getting IIs before me but now I've seen many people get IIs with the same or lower GPA, MCAT, or LizzyM including residency status...

Schools could be doing a more in-depth review to sort through mission fit etc but once they did that it seems like it would be more fitting to reject or "hold" the non II applications after essentially reviewing their entire app to find a mission fit...

Could silence be more indicative of a red flag in these cases?

 

[onyxbell]

I know friends applying this cycle who have completed some IIs and waiting for the mid Oct outcome. Personally, one of them holds an II from my dream school at a later date in Jan 2018. He says that he will withdraw and "free up" that II slot once he has an acceptance elsewhere, although I did promise to buy him beer in case I really somehow get that "freed-up" slot from that school.

Point is, once the acceptances start to go, some multi-II holders will probably start withdrawing, which in turn may move things along a bit for us without any good news so far.

 

[fourandtwo]

Patience is a virtue, the need for instant gratification is not.


Schools stratify the apps as they come in and don't send out IIs merely in chronological order.

I like this saying from you so much that I said it to my brother the other day

 

[usernamesaredumb]

I like this saying from you so much that I said it to my brother the other day

should read: "patience is a virtue, the desire to see a reward for years of hard work and dedication is completely normal and understandble."

 

[Piglet2020]

I like this saying from you so much that I said it to my brother the other day

O_O I just looked at your status thing at the bottom and you have 3 acceptances already? How is this possible as of now?