No MCAT yet, older student, messed up out of HS

[Self]

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Hi everyone,

I finally decided to join SDN at the recommendation of a friend and I don't know why I didn't earlier! Anyway, I've been chasing this dream of ours for a l little over 2 years now but I honestly don't know what the outcome is going to be. Here's, the story, and I'll try to keep it short but I have a tendency to narrate:

My first year of college I was academically dismissed. I had a GPA around 1.0, some of my Fs being science classes, and didn't really care for or see the importance of an education. After that I went to community college on and off for 3 years, sometimes withdrawing from whole semesters, but never really earning grades as horrible as I did out of high school. After that I went to work full-time for 1.5 years and did not go to any school. I was pursuing musical interests and was in a serious band for a total of 4 years. Having tried that and gotten my fill of it (realizing it's not what I thought it would be), I gave into the lifelong nudge towards science and medicine, buckled down and decided it was time to work hard and be as smart as people always told me I was. I returned to my community college, took the classes over, and finished my A.S. degree with a 3.5. I transferred into a 4 year school and started my major in molecular biology (currently), I have a 3.89 GPA, next semester will be my last, and I got no less than an A- in those med school prereq courses (but mostly A's). I am doing research and have received EMT certification over the summer (at the same time as I was crushing Orgo with A's) which I will be using to start volunteering in my town any day now. I intend to take the MCAT in April 2011, apply as early as schools will let me for Fall 2012 admission. I am a 26 year old white male (because I know it matters) and will be 27 by the time I apply. I can write a decent statement -I think- and I have no fears about interviewing. I shadowed an infectious disease specialist last fall for 100 hours and attended grand rounds at a teaching hospital a couple of times. I also shadowed a nurse in integrative oncology.

Phew! Just need to thank everyone who took time to read that. So I calculated my AMCAS score and it looks like it's going to be around 3.0 with all the coursework included, since they don't like to do academic forgiveness. But, there's a definite upward trend in grades here. I know a lot is going to hinge on my MCAT but I think I've got a good shot at because 1. I tutor Bio, Physics, Chem, and Orgo and 2. I'll be taking a prep course which, if nothing more, is useful for taking AAMC approved practice exams.

I'm also entering into my school's Master's program in molecular biology as soon as I graduate. I know it won't increase my chances all that much since the reviewers will only see that I intend to take those courses, but I'm not doing it for that. I really like the research I'm involved in and I want to keep doing it, plus my mentor thinks my ideas could produce a good Master's Thesis. Since technically I've already started the research, it shouldn't take more than 2 years from now to do both the research and the coursework, allowing me to finish the M.S. during the "glide year" while I wait to hear back from schools.

Sorry I wrote so much but I really want to see what everyone's opinions are on my chances. I screwed up royally early on. Will admissions people see the bad GPA and simply move on or will they even bother to look deeper? That's my main concern.

Thanks again!

Self

 

[TriagePreMed]

So this is 3.0 on both cGPA and sGPA? I think given that your older grades happened long ago and there has been a clear change with the 3.9 GPA, you hold a shot. However, I don't think a masters in molecular biology is the way to go about it. I would suggest doing an SMP. A strong SMP and MCAT could land you an acceptance.

 

[Self]

Well the master's is not really to help out with the application, since I wouldn't have even started it yet when I apply. I'm interested in my research and could probably get something good out of it, but I can't justify staying at my school to do it without being a student, thus, graduate program.

It could, however, help in one way. The director of admissions for the NJ DO school came by one day to speak and she said that they have a unique policy where they will effectively ignore undergraduate coursework in lieu of a graduate degree in a "hard science." I think molecular biology definitely qualified. As for the MD schools, I can tailor it to include medical electives. I'm already taking a graduate level virology course and a graduate level endocrinology course next semester that will go towards the M.S. I'm sure I can find an anatomy or physiology elective to round it out as well later on.

But in terms of what I will have as of a summer 2011 pre-Masters application, how does it look? Obviously I need a stronger than usual MCAT to be on the same level as applicants with average MCATS and better GPAs. Will an average MCAT of, say, 31 even do it?

 

[Catalystik]

Your AACOMAS (DO application service) GPA will be much higher than the AMCAS GPA, because they only include the most recent grade when calculatiung the application GPA, and you retook all the Fs you earned. With your steep upward grade trend and nontrad status, I am confident you could get an acceptance to a DO school.

On the basis of what you've told us, I wouldn't count out MD schools just yet, especially if you can get a strong MCAT score (ideally better than a 31). Many schools will look at your application more carefully since you are a nontrad and will appreciate your current work ethic. There are, BTW, a few MD schools that do consider the grad GPA of a hard-science traditional masters degree, but it won't totally override the low GPA the way that an SMP would.

In looking at your activities, I am not seeing any past clinical experience (though I see some planned EMT activity), which is looked at differently from the passive observership of shadowing. The average applicant has about 1.5 years of this on their application. Your shadowing, teaching, artistic endeavors, and research look fine. Do you have any volunteer work that would qualify as nonmedical community service?

If it's going to take "two years from now" to complete the masters, it seems to me you should plan to apply in June 2012. Med schools will expect you to complete the degree.

 

[Self]

Thanks for your response Catalystik. The non-medical volunteer work is lacking, I must say. There is an opportunity I'm looking into for next semester that would fill that gap and would be something I'd enjoy, but it really depends on the schedule.

What concerns me more is how you say schools will be expecting me to finish the master's before applying. I've heard this before as well. I'm confident that the timing will work out but I could understand how schools may be concerned. Do you think it would be better to not even include the fact that I'll be pursuing the MS on the application?

 

[Catalystik]

What concerns me more is how you say schools will be expecting me to finish the master's before applying. I've heard this before as well. I'm confident that the timing will work out but I could understand how schools may be concerned. Do you think it would be better to not even include the fact that I'll be pursuing the MS on the application?

You must complete the degree before matriculation, not before application.

Won't your school's transcript reflect that you are engaged in a masters program if you apply this summer? Certainly the final transcript submitted before matriculation would. Planned coursework is typically entered as Future on the primary application.