No publication woes...

[radoncwannabe]

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Hi, I am a 4th year student with 0 publications, that's right, ZERO publications trying to apply for rad onc. I think I must be crazy. Anyways, I've not been very successful at finding opportunities for research, as the school that I attend does not have an active residency program for radiation oncology.
I did some research in the past many years ago but no pubs came from them, and they weren't directly related to rad onc.
5 years ago I did a project related to cancer but it was more on the molecular biology aspect of it.
I also did a summer project on cancer (use of methylation of DNA in detecting cancer) during medical school in 2005, but also never got a chance to publish anything from it. When I asked my mentor she said that she didn't think that it was substantial enough for publication, so I didn't try.
I know everyone says if you don't publish it, then it doesn't count. Do you think it's too late to try for these projects? Would I then be able to put "publication pending" on it for my ERAS application? I dunno what to do, I'm panicked at this point. Do you think I should take a year off after medical school to pursue research instead?

A little bit more about me, in case you were wondering: Not from a top 50 school, but ranked 4th in class year and made AOA as MSIII, Step 1 of 247, starting my first rad onc rotation next week. Have 1 ok letter from a rad onc attending, hoping for a good one from my chair but not in hand yet.

Hoping for some advice about the research if you have any...(or know any opportunities in the dc area??)

 

[deleted4401]

You could slip in this year, but there is a chance you won't. Apply to every single program, but in your mind pretend you aren't applying until the next year. What I mean is, preliminarily set up a research rotation (I did one at Mayo Scottsdale and UChicago) where they would love to have a student help out with some clinical research. That way you aren't focused on impressing them with your clinical skills and you can potentially get a 'stract or a manuscript out of it. So, if you match, you're fine, if not, you've set yourself up for next year.

-S

 

[radiaterMike]

You really should not state "publication pending" since that can be interpretted as "In Press"

You could state "manuscript in preparation"

Not really relevant to your question, but of interest .... a couple of years ago someone posted a link to a paper from Roswell Park (I am too lazy to search for it) that found that a fairly large percentage of applicants had lied about their publications in their application.

 

[IndyXRT]

I applied with no rad onc publications. I had one ongoing chart review that wasn't even in the manuscript preparation phase and one small paper/expanded abstract from undergrad. I matched. I think it is essential to show that you are interested in research, which your previous research (though unrelated) should help with. If you could manage to get involved with a rad onc related research project somehow, you could talk about this during interviews (hey, it worked for me). An alternative would be to see if your previous projects could yield an abstract (much easier and faster to get accepted than a manuscript- you just have to target it to the right meeting). Don't despair.

P.S. to OP: I was not AOA, not at the top of my class, and my board score was not as good as yours

 

[IRISH22]

A question about research/ERAS:

One of you mentioned that if we dont have the publications to prove it, we should show we have an interest in research. does that mean we should include research projects that arent related related to medicine (ie, publications from undergrad in other disciplines)?

 

[stephew]

there is no magic forumla. you dont "have" to have published. A good student stands a chance.

 

[IndyXRT]

A question about research/ERAS:

One of you mentioned that if we dont have the publications to prove it, we should show we have an interest in research. does that mean we should include research projects that arent related related to medicine (ie, publications from undergrad in other disciplines)?

If you have nothing else, I don't see how it could hurt, although it may not be too helpful. It just seemed to me that everyone I interviewed with wanted to know what sort of research experience I had. Even though my answer wasn't terribly impressive, it seemed as if "none" would have been a red flag (just my perception, not something anyone told me explicitly). I don't particularly agree with this mindset, but it seemed rather prevalent to me (note: I didn't get that many interviews, so my n is small). I'd be interested to hear what some of the members who have interviewed more recently and/or more widely think.

 

[radoncwannabe]

Thanks for the advice guys. Right now my elecives schedules are all set at my institution so I can't apply for a research elective before I graduate (they won't let me change one of my other electives). I think I'll try to maybe find a small rad onc project at one of the institutions that I will be rotating through and try to get something published from there. I think maybe I'll have a backup plan to do a year of research after I graduate...just in case.
In the meanwhile, good luck to all you others applying this year, and I'll see you on the interview trail!

 

[Nelk6]

Side note-does anyone know how to enter an abstract under publications on ERAS regarding volume and issue number? My abstract was put in a book of abstracts at various conferences, so does this count as a publication? I can't seem to find a volume or issue number so I don't know if I should include it in my eras publication section. Any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[Cancerdancer]

I put my abstracts under "presentation posters." It then asks for the meeting/organization, data etc. for where the poster/abstract was presented. I think this is the most appropriate selection for abstracts as far as I can tell. It's a little unclear since the other category says "Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts" -- most abstracts aren't peer reviewed per se, and as you allude to, are not really published with a volume, page # etc.

Anyone else have differing thoughts?

 

[deleted4401]

"Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts"

I think that could be interpreted as:
1) Peer Review Journal Articles
2) Abstracts

That is how I interpreted it, and listed my abstract in that section. No one questioned it, and I don't think it's wrong. It is an abstract and a poster presentation is a separate entity.

-S

 

[Thaiger75]

starting my first rad onc rotation next week. Have 1 ok letter from a rad onc attending, hoping for a good one from my chair but not in hand yet.

Hoping for some advice about the research if you have any...(or know any opportunities in the dc area??)

Your scores and grades are certainly above average. I think as long as you have an ongoing project in rad onc, you should be fine. The thing that might hurt you the most is...if you're truly starting your 1st rad onc rotation now...that's kinda late in the game. And how were you able to get a rad onc LOR without rotating yet?

 

[Adawaal]

I came from an average med school with a Rad Onc department in disarray at the time. Not AOA. Above average USMLE scores (but a bit less than yours). Decent grades. No away rotations at the programs to which I applied. No oncology-related publications, a bit of Rad Onc research as a 4th year.

Yes, all the things you mention are important to snag the interviews. That said, I've seen a lot of people with superstar numbers who failed to match. Once you're in the interview day it's all about how you present yourself. Know the details of the programs you're interested in. Know the people who will be interviewing you. It's all about you being seen as a "good fit" at that point, little more than that.

 

[stephew]

amen to that brother. we've seen all things happen at the interview.

I Once you're in the interview day it's all about how you present yourself. Know the details of the programs you're interested in. Know the people who will be interviewing you. It's all about you being seen as a "good fit" at that point, little more than that.

 

[radoncwannabe]

Your scores and grades are certainly above average. I think as long as you have an ongoing project in rad onc, you should be fine. The thing that might hurt you the most is...if you're truly starting your 1st rad onc rotation now...that's kinda late in the game. And how were you able to get a rad onc LOR without rotating yet?

Oh I was lucky enough to have done a summer program where I was shadowing a radiation oncologist and doing research at one of the labs there so he's my main mentor and has gotten to know me pretty well; that's how I got a LOR from a rad onc attending without an actual rotation under my belt. Hoping to get a good one from my current rotation though.

 

[g6pddfishnc]

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