So, I know there's still time left to hear back from waitlists and I'm trying to stay optimistic, but at this point I have to face facts. I have a 3.8 and 32Q. I applied early (June 15) and had tremendous success early on (10 interviews). But after the dust settled, I got waitlisted to 6 of those schools, and rejected from the others. I honestly felt as though my interviews went extremely well, pretty much flawless. There were one or two moments in 2 of my interviews where I hesitated to answer a question and stumbled through an answer, but other than that I was spot on for everything else. My question is, what happened? So far I've been calling schools to get feedback and none have offered any. The only possible culprit that I can think of is that my letters of rec may not have been very strong. But at the worst I had three strong letters and 2 average letters. I guess I just feel like most reapplicants know what they have to fix, either applying early or more broadly, or an MCAT issue, or GPA. Other than the fact that I had little research, I can't really think of anything else that I lacked. And I did not apply to too many research-oriented schools. Can anyone help me?
No success for 2008-2009 cycle, possible reapp
- Thread starter pakola
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With 10 interviews and no luck, I wouldn't be so sure that your interviews were "flawless". It's probably hard to get feedback about this from the schools; maybe you could try a mock interview with someone who can evaluate this objectively.
Can you get some feedback from someone about your letters?
If your school is handling your letters, someone may be able to tell you whether or not they are any good. They can't tell you the content, but may be able to warn you if there is something bad.
As for school choices, CA is tough and TX is tough as an out of state candidate. You have good stats, but they are probably just average in those applicant pools. I'd just try again, work on the interviewing and add a bunch of schools.
Can you get some feedback from someone about your letters?
If your school is handling your letters, someone may be able to tell you whether or not they are any good. They can't tell you the content, but may be able to warn you if there is something bad.
As for school choices, CA is tough and TX is tough as an out of state candidate. You have good stats, but they are probably just average in those applicant pools. I'd just try again, work on the interviewing and add a bunch of schools.
Thanks for the advice gman. I think the mock interview is a good idea. Although I did do some mock interviews with two current medical students. But I suppose if I could find someone who is or has been on an adcom, that would give me a better idea of where I stand. As far as letters, the letter service at my school is very strict on not giving any info about the letters. They don't do things via a committee anymore, it's just one lady who uploads the letters, and takes 125 bucks. I'll post back after trying to arrange a mock interview or if I hear anything from schools regarding feedback.
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Hi there -
I was in a very similar situation the first time I applied - ended up on waitlists at 100% of the schools I interviewed with. I did service work for a year - and got into 5 schools the next time 'round. Sometimes it just takes another year!
Take your year off in style - do something you've always wanted to do in addition to strengthening your application.
/only a suggestion
//same suggestion I received in your situation
///found it very helpful/optimistic myself
I was in a very similar situation the first time I applied - ended up on waitlists at 100% of the schools I interviewed with. I did service work for a year - and got into 5 schools the next time 'round. Sometimes it just takes another year!
Take your year off in style - do something you've always wanted to do in addition to strengthening your application.
/only a suggestion
//same suggestion I received in your situation
///found it very helpful/optimistic myself
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Sucks if your school won't tell you if you have a bad letter. I know they can't say what's in it, but they should be able to advise you on which ones to send (since you have more than the miniumum).
My guess is there is something in your interviews which is just not letting you stand out from the crowd.
I found the book "The Medical School Interview: Secrets and a System for Success" helpful when I was interviewing.
My guess is there is something in your interviews which is just not letting you stand out from the crowd.
I found the book "The Medical School Interview: Secrets and a System for Success" helpful when I was interviewing.
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I'd guess the interview was probably your problem. That and an average MCAT score.
For all my interviews I looked over my primary and secondary apps. I checked SDN's interview feedback religiously, and I did mock interviews with currents med students. I also looked through each school's website to see if there was anything specific about the curriculum or the kind of research they were doing that interested me. Granted, I didn't try to set up a mock interview with someone at our pre-med advising office, but I did everything else. Everyone said I had good responses. I had thought out things to say, without rehearsing them. I know that my answer to the question "Why medicine" was a little long, due to explaining how I got to where I am now. It just doesn't make sense that my interviews didn't go well.
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Being a CA resident, with your stats, sure didn't help much instate.
And because of that residency, maybe you should have applied to some of the OOS schools that are CA friendly, like EVMS, VCU, RFU, NYMC, etc. Edit: Ooh, just read you didn't fill out the RFU - ouch.
Why the Texas schools? Do you have some link to the state? Very tough state for OOSers.
None of the above explains 10 ints and no acceptances, but I think you could do a better job of applying next time.
And because of that residency, maybe you should have applied to some of the OOS schools that are CA friendly, like EVMS, VCU, RFU, NYMC, etc. Edit: Ooh, just read you didn't fill out the RFU - ouch.
Why the Texas schools? Do you have some link to the state? Very tough state for OOSers.
None of the above explains 10 ints and no acceptances, but I think you could do a better job of applying next time.
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I still don't understand why people have more than the minimum, or why they use more than the number asked for. Three letters - 2 sci, one non-sci, suffice at every school I am applying to, and I sent the primary to 27 schools. You are far better off using 3 letters you are pretty sure of than 5 you are not so sure about.
If I used my 3 best letters I would have had no science letters. My best letters were non-science. My 2 mediocre letters (I'm assuming, don't actually know this) were my science letters. I didn't need professors help in science classes, so I didn't go to office hours. In non-science classes I needed help often so I went to office hours and was able to have long conversations about medical school and lofty humanistic goals. The one science professor that I spent a considerable amount of time with in office hours refused to write LORs altogether. So don't assume you know something when you don't. Also, the director of admissions at my local medical school specifically mentioned in a talk I attended that if someone has done something meaningful and is putting it down as an activity in his application it should be accompanied with a letter. All indications were that I needed more than 3 letters. I don't think having 5 letters was the problem, it may have been that my 2 science letters may not have been as good as I would have hoped because I spent very little time in office hours with those professors. I did however ask them if they could write me a strong letter and both said "yes" and I met with and had lenghty discussions with both prior to their approval. Sorry for the rant, I'm just trying to set the record straight. My application was far from perfect and I appreciate any and all feedback.
I applied to TX schools because I do have strong ties to the state, I was born there, have both family and close friends there. My father went to school in TX. And I had a lot of success at getting interviews in TX. At Baylor my application was never completely processed because AMCAS screwed up receiving my letters and Baylor was the only school that required letters to be uploaded to AMCAS. At Texas A&M I did not submit my secondary, so I obviously couldn't have gained acceptance there. So out of UTH, UTSW, UTMB, and UTHSCA, I got 3 interviews out of 4. That's better luck than I had in state in California. I agree, however, that I probably should have selected a few more safety schools, but having gotten 10 interviews and no love, I think there's a bigger problem that I'm just not seeing. I know all interviews are not created equal, and so I may have been at a disadvantage going into the interview in say TX (because of low OOS numbers), WI (low OOS numbers), and UCLA (higher GPA and MCAT averages than my own), but nonetheless I got interviews so my paper application must have met some ideal criteria.
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With 10 interviews the odds would say that you should get one or more acceptances. Perhaps that is different for California residents, but usually it is the case.
In your situation, I would suspect that you either did not do so well in the interviews (even though you are doubting that) or there is something bad in one of your letters. It's always possible that the problem was something else (like a weaker personal statement, or that on repeated/further inspection of your application they didn't think you had enough volunteer hours or a good rationale to pursue medicine, etc.) but my money is on bad intervies and/or something bad in one of the letters.
I notice in the post above that you seemed kind of defensive...not sure why you wanted to attack the person who suggested throwing out one or more of your letters...that would have been my first advice as well, given you had posted above that you felt two of them were "weak". I was in a similar situation to yours years ago, and ended up throwing out one of my LOR's and going and getting another one from a different science professor. It's possible that even though the two science profs agreed to write you a LOR, one or more of them was not strong. As you mentioned, if you didn't spend much time with them, they may have not felt compelled to write something strong, and/or may not have known you well enough to write a good letter. Some people also just suck at writing letters of rec, and/or they aren't familiar with what med school admissions committees would want to see in such a letter. It sucks that your school is not more helpful in regards to picking out the stronger LOR's.
I agree with trying mock interviews, and if you can get some med students or physicians who have worked on admissions committees to read your application, that wouldn't hurt. Sometimes it is hard to find such people, though.
I think if you are still in undergrad, you have a potential fix for getting a better science LOR, which is to take another science class and really kiss up to the professor. I know it sucks, but sometimes you have to play these games. I also didn't require much help in science classes and thus didn't spend much time with professors, which probably was a mistake as I ran into the same situation as you did. If you are not still in undergrad, you might want to think hard and see if there are any other professor(s) whose science classes you aced who you could maybe go back and ask for an LOR from them. I would just be up front with them, explain that although they may not remember you well, you loved their class, did well, etc. and you are going through this med school admissions process and you still lack/need one more science professor LOR, and would they be willing to write a strong letter, etc. Some people are just better writers than others, and some letters will just have more power (i.e. usually full professor trumps associate professor, unless the lower down prof. just knows you a lot better, etc. - some adcoms like to see LOR's from someone who has taught a lot of premeds and is thus in a postion to evaluate you vs. other med school bound students).
Also, sometimes people just have bad luck. If that was your first time applying, I would just reapply, in the interim doing whatever you can to improve your application (practice interviewing, get more clinical volunteer hours perhaps, etc.).
I also agree w/above comments that your MCAT score is pretty good, but perhaps not too competitive for an out of state student applying to state med schools. Generally people who get into state schools as out of staters have crazy numbers, just because the adcoms have to set the bar so high usually b/c they aren't allowed to take many out of staters.
If you're from California, apply to a lot of private schools, like St. Louis U. Rosalind Franklin, George Washington U, etc.
In your situation, I would suspect that you either did not do so well in the interviews (even though you are doubting that) or there is something bad in one of your letters. It's always possible that the problem was something else (like a weaker personal statement, or that on repeated/further inspection of your application they didn't think you had enough volunteer hours or a good rationale to pursue medicine, etc.) but my money is on bad intervies and/or something bad in one of the letters.
I notice in the post above that you seemed kind of defensive...not sure why you wanted to attack the person who suggested throwing out one or more of your letters...that would have been my first advice as well, given you had posted above that you felt two of them were "weak". I was in a similar situation to yours years ago, and ended up throwing out one of my LOR's and going and getting another one from a different science professor. It's possible that even though the two science profs agreed to write you a LOR, one or more of them was not strong. As you mentioned, if you didn't spend much time with them, they may have not felt compelled to write something strong, and/or may not have known you well enough to write a good letter. Some people also just suck at writing letters of rec, and/or they aren't familiar with what med school admissions committees would want to see in such a letter. It sucks that your school is not more helpful in regards to picking out the stronger LOR's.
I agree with trying mock interviews, and if you can get some med students or physicians who have worked on admissions committees to read your application, that wouldn't hurt. Sometimes it is hard to find such people, though.
I think if you are still in undergrad, you have a potential fix for getting a better science LOR, which is to take another science class and really kiss up to the professor. I know it sucks, but sometimes you have to play these games. I also didn't require much help in science classes and thus didn't spend much time with professors, which probably was a mistake as I ran into the same situation as you did. If you are not still in undergrad, you might want to think hard and see if there are any other professor(s) whose science classes you aced who you could maybe go back and ask for an LOR from them. I would just be up front with them, explain that although they may not remember you well, you loved their class, did well, etc. and you are going through this med school admissions process and you still lack/need one more science professor LOR, and would they be willing to write a strong letter, etc. Some people are just better writers than others, and some letters will just have more power (i.e. usually full professor trumps associate professor, unless the lower down prof. just knows you a lot better, etc. - some adcoms like to see LOR's from someone who has taught a lot of premeds and is thus in a postion to evaluate you vs. other med school bound students).
Also, sometimes people just have bad luck. If that was your first time applying, I would just reapply, in the interim doing whatever you can to improve your application (practice interviewing, get more clinical volunteer hours perhaps, etc.).
I also agree w/above comments that your MCAT score is pretty good, but perhaps not too competitive for an out of state student applying to state med schools. Generally people who get into state schools as out of staters have crazy numbers, just because the adcoms have to set the bar so high usually b/c they aren't allowed to take many out of staters.
If you're from California, apply to a lot of private schools, like St. Louis U. Rosalind Franklin, George Washington U, etc.
Maybe I didn't explain this properly enough, the two letters that I am unsure about out of 5, were science profs. I can't just get rid of those two letters because they are required. My two extracurricular LOR's are my strongest letters. One is from the PI whose lab I worked in for a year, and the other is a Co-Director of the free clinic that I volunteered at for over 1000 hours, for which I obtained a leadership position, and that which I eventually ran as the manager. I think those letters speak to my desire to pursue a career in medicine more so than a professor whose class I got an A in, and with whom I've only spoken with regarding my interests (not actually worked with). I think requiring letters from professors is pretty ridiculous because unless someone worked with that professor in a lab, how can he or she attest to the applicant's worthiness for medical school? My extracurricular activities paved the way for me to choose medicine as a career path much more so than did my science classes. But, because the system is the way it is, I approached two professors with whom I was familiar, and whose classes I received an A+ and an A in, to write letters.
I'm not denying that my application is flawed, I'm merely pointing out the importance of my two "extra" letters, and to show that they were integral to my application as a whole. If anything, I may need to replace my science letters (which is not possible because I'm out of school). Nonetheless, if I had been admitted to a school by now, I never even would have questioned my letters. It's only because I am in this situation that I'm trying to nitpick and find a reason.
On a brighter note, I finally got someone at an admissions office to set up an appointment with the dean to speak about my application and possible improvements that I can make! I am looking forward to that conversation (and also dreading it). I will report back with the details. And again, even if I do come off as defensive, I cannot stress how much I appreciate everyone's advice on here. I apologize if I may have snapped in response to something you said, I am simply acting out of frustration.
I'm not denying that my application is flawed, I'm merely pointing out the importance of my two "extra" letters, and to show that they were integral to my application as a whole. If anything, I may need to replace my science letters (which is not possible because I'm out of school). Nonetheless, if I had been admitted to a school by now, I never even would have questioned my letters. It's only because I am in this situation that I'm trying to nitpick and find a reason.
On a brighter note, I finally got someone at an admissions office to set up an appointment with the dean to speak about my application and possible improvements that I can make! I am looking forward to that conversation (and also dreading it). I will report back with the details. And again, even if I do come off as defensive, I cannot stress how much I appreciate everyone's advice on here. I apologize if I may have snapped in response to something you said, I am simply acting out of frustration.
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your situation sounds horrible. you have 1000 hours of service and a 3.8 and 32 mcat? people get in with a lot worse stats. you should get in somewhere. 10 interviews means 10 tries. it's hard to imagine someone failing the interview 10 times in a row. there might be something terribly wrong with your application that you overlooked.
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From this, it is evident you completely misunderstand how and from whom to obtain a letter. Why do you think you can only get a letter from a prof in a class you had difficulty with, thus you spent more time in his office? I was a non-sci applicant and I got glowing letters from science profs in classes where I never set foot in his office...the key to a strong letter from a prof starts with strong academic performance.
Building a relationship with the prof beyond the class is great, too, and the best letters do come from profs who know you for more than the A you earned in their class, but it is better to request letters from profs in classes where you excelled and hopefully contributed to class discussions and made yourself "known" to the prof during the class.
Finally - you get the advice you deserve when you don't fully explain your situation in the first post.
Flip, first of all, thanks for your insight, I really do appreciate it. With regards to your comment about building a relationship with the prof through class discussion is not possible in a class of 300-500 students, where you can go through a class never speaking to the prof at all. Now, I did speak to these profs in class by answering questions thrown out to the class, but there were so many students the prof did not remember. Nonetheless, the profs were totally willing to write me letters, I just didn't feel like I knew them as well as my other letter writers.
On another note, I spoke to the Dean of a medical school that I have been waitlisted at regarding my application. Unfortunately, his reasons haven't given me much to work on. He said that the main reason that I didn't get accepted directly was because I am an out of state applicant applying to TX schools. I tried to explain my strong ties to the state, but he said they only have 20 spots for OOS applicants. Then, he mentioned my lack of non-healthcare volunteering as a small red flag on my application. That is probably the most useful critique that I got. While I did volunteer extensively, it was all healthcare related, even if it was a diverse nature of activities. After that, he said that I didn't describe my volunteer activities in enough detail on my application, even though I pointed out that I had 50 characters to explain them. I asked him about my interviews, but he said he didn't have access to my interview evaluations. I'm going to keep trying to contact more admissions offices to get more feedback. Thanks everyone for contributing to this thread. Keep the insightful comments coming.
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I don't see why non-healthcare related ECs should factor heavily into medschool applications. At this point you have more important questions (LORs, interview performance) that you need to find out. If possible, you should ask one of your undergrad advisors to read your science letters and at least give you some hints on their strength, while poking around for feedback on your interviews. Speculation won't illuminate the way to medschool acceptances, you really need more information to figure out your attack plan for the coming cycle.
Which is why I'm waiting to re-submit my amcas. I'm not submitting the same app again. As far as the letters, I honestly can't get access in any way, not even through undergrad advisors. Our letters are completely locked in. We don't even get to choose which ones to send, we have to send them all regardless of how many we have. That is the way the letter service at my school works. The only way to find any info would be to ask the letter writers themselves, which is not allowed.
I also don't see how a lack of non-healthcare related volunteering would be a dealbreaker. I can see it as a plus, but not as a red flag. Especially since my clinical volunteering was substantial. I tried to find out about the interviews and how they went, but the dean said he didn't have access. I couldn't call him a liar, so I let it go. He may also have not had my paper file on hand, but nonetheless he wasn't going to give me anything in that regard. But, I'll keep asking for feedback and hopefully I'll find the missing piece to this nightmare puzzle.
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No med school will ever tell you why you "really" did not get in. I seriously doubt the lack of non health care volunteering has anything to do with it.
But I do think that he revealed a bit of truth: the limited number of OOS spots is a key factor, even if you make it to the interview stage. What is the ratio of OOS applicants to interviewees to acceptees at these Texas med schools? If it is anything like other states, it is extreme, with a very low percentage of acceptees to applicants...the scary truth in med school admissions is that unless you are a superstar applicant, if you don't get accepted at one your own state schools, you are in a deep doo doo, and this seems to be especially true for Californians.
If it were me, for reapplication I would target an entirely different set of OOS schools, public and private. I would not bother with Texas again - the "I have ties to the state" is just not that great a tip factor for applicants - most of these OOS schools are looking to skim the cream and only accept the superstar, or near superstar, applicants from the OOS pool.
Final thought: most of the Californians with average stats report applying to a ton of schools...30+ is common, and it appears that you applied to only 22 schools. If you have to reapply, you need to apply to more schools, and you need to diversify your apps - your apps this cycle were concentrated in your state schools, and in Texas med schools. Clearly you hoped that your "ties" to Texas would tip the scales in your favor, but it did not. For a reapp, spread your apps around to all of the schools that take OOS applicants in greater numbers.
Final question: why do you "have to" use your school's letter service? Your school has done you no favors with their rigid "all or nothing" letter service. Without going back over this thread, is it a pre-med committee thing, with a letter and a packet? If there is a committee letter, there is a chance that they are the ones who screwed you. If not, and you have to obtain new letters for a reapp, consider using Interfolio for all of your letters - it will give you more control over them, allowing you to pick and choose the letters you send to individual med schools, and for the growing number of schools that require the AMCAS letter service, it allows you to forward them individually from Interfolio, and you can then pick and choose who gets them from AMCAS.
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I'm sorry that you are having a difficult application season...I hope one of your waitlists work out. I think unfortunately the culprit might be you school choices. While I can understand your applying to CA schools since you are instate, I think the Texas schools are a reach...more so than some IVY leagues, I think.
Hoping to see an accepted post from you soon...I would get on the ball though and put your AMCAS through. Did you ever ask that sci prof why he didn't write LORs?
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Ouch. This is the kind of stuff that gives me nightmares. Your app looks good.
$.000000000000000002:
--Agree with the suggestions to do some non-clinical volunteering. Pretty much anything you enjoy doing, there's probably a way you can teach that to other people, or help out in some way for free. Have fun with this!!
--There might be something wrong with your LORs, but the fact that you got so many interviews makes me think the interview is the larger problem. Maybe you didn't do anything explicitly wrong, but you didn't stand out from the pack? One thing I noticed about your responses was your focus on the literal wording of what was said. Obviously in interviews when people are making snap judgments about your character, nonverbal stuff counts more than what you say. If you had a defensive tone in your interviews when challenging questions were asked, I could see how this would have an negative impact. [Someone with a terrier in their avatar just had a couple interviews so this is fresh in her head 🙂] I would do more mock interviews with people you don't know well because they will be more likely to give you honest feedback.
Also 2nding flip's suggestion about Interfolio.
Good luck dude, sounds like you just had some bad luck this year.
$.000000000000000002:
--Agree with the suggestions to do some non-clinical volunteering. Pretty much anything you enjoy doing, there's probably a way you can teach that to other people, or help out in some way for free. Have fun with this!!
--There might be something wrong with your LORs, but the fact that you got so many interviews makes me think the interview is the larger problem. Maybe you didn't do anything explicitly wrong, but you didn't stand out from the pack? One thing I noticed about your responses was your focus on the literal wording of what was said. Obviously in interviews when people are making snap judgments about your character, nonverbal stuff counts more than what you say. If you had a defensive tone in your interviews when challenging questions were asked, I could see how this would have an negative impact. [Someone with a terrier in their avatar just had a couple interviews so this is fresh in her head 🙂] I would do more mock interviews with people you don't know well because they will be more likely to give you honest feedback.
Also 2nding flip's suggestion about Interfolio.
Good luck dude, sounds like you just had some bad luck this year.
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I really appreciate your advice bkz. I think you may have hit the nail on the head. I can't be sure that my nonverbal communication was like, and with friends its hard for them to judge that since they're used to it. As far as using the school letter service, when I applied last year there were many schools that said they preferred applicant's using their school's letter service, and one school requiring it. I'm not sure if these policies have changed since last year, but that's how they did it last year. Thanks for the vote of confidence guys.
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My school's letter service makes us get 5 letters. They say we have to get 2 SCi, 1 non-sci, 1 character, 1 health-care experience. And they send the packet out to the schools we designate. If I had a choice in it, I'd send the minimum of 3. I'm pretty risk-averse that way.
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Hey Pakola (good drink), I was also hit by some bad luck last cycle. Your GPA is better than mine, but the MCAT compensates. Compared to me though, you did amazing. I got only 1 interview - you got 10. I'm about 99% sure that your interviews all shared a common problem. It's hard to speculate that, since you said you don't recall anything too horrible going on during your interviews. But seriously - 10 interviews and 0 acceptances is a pretty large statistical anomaly. I say you start with the symptom and diagnose from there - 10 interviews with 0 acceptances just isn't right. See, I got only 1 interview - that tells me my low GPA is a big problem and that nothing else I had was impressive enough to make up for it. So those are the aspects of my application I can try to address.
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Is it a full blown premed committee, with a committee letter attached from the committee that takes excerpts from the letters, or simply a letter packaging and forwarding service? If the latter, I would not use the letter service. I would have letter writers submit to Interfolio, then forward them individually to AMCAS. The concept of the school "letter service" is an anachronism given Interfolio and now the AMCAS letter service.
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What did you do in the interview to get rejected from Drexel? (Nothing wrong with Drexel, just your MCAT, GPA and extracurriculars all look decent enough for them to keep you on the waitlist at least.)
I think you just missed the cut. Its just unfortunate that all your schools are at about the same level (UCs, UTs and UW) so you missed the same cut.
I think you just missed the cut. Its just unfortunate that all your schools are at about the same level (UCs, UTs and UW) so you missed the same cut.
I am pretty sure nothing in particular went wrong at my Drexel interview. I mean, my faculty interview went very smoothly, and my student interviewer went to my undergrad so I caught him up on a lot that has been going on since he left. He basically filled out the eval in front of me giving me a perfect score, but who knows what that could mean. The essay that I wrote was average, not my best work. I think the biggest thing that did me in, was that I rescheduled my interview from November to February, and I did so last minute in November. I just found out my brother needed surgery and so I went to see him and to drive him to work for a week while he was incapacitated (which coincided with my interview). It never came up in my interview so I didn't get a chance to really explain that. However, it was through an automated system so I just had to click a button to reschedule. I'm not sure if that was reflected in my eval. I just play things out in my head and I can find little things that could have done me in. But the crazy thing is, if I'd have gotten in, I wouldn't think twice about them.
Hey dude. Like you, im from california, interviewed at 10+ places and got waitlisted at a helluva lot of em (9 in my case). I totally understand what you're going through since I felt great at all of my interviews also...only to be waitlisted later. Up until march, I felt absolutely horrible since all the response im getting from schools are waitlists.
Like some of the others have already pointed out, your list of schools might suspect. I applied to 30+ schools this cycle. Many of my friends who applied with me applied to 40+ schools, making my list seem relatively short. The key, since we can't depend on UC's it, it seems is to apply broadly to OOS privates. Theres just too much competitition in public schools (especially in CA and TX) to have any sense of certainty.
o and the science LORs i got were from professors whose classes i took and got A's in. I didn't really know them aside from class and the occasional office hour but the letters they wrote were good enough it seems. I wouldn't really fret about your LORs as I feel they're fine.
I hope you can get in somewhere this cycle off the waitlists. If not, apply more broadly next cycle and i'd be very surprised if you don't get in somewhere.
best of luck!
Like some of the others have already pointed out, your list of schools might suspect. I applied to 30+ schools this cycle. Many of my friends who applied with me applied to 40+ schools, making my list seem relatively short. The key, since we can't depend on UC's it, it seems is to apply broadly to OOS privates. Theres just too much competitition in public schools (especially in CA and TX) to have any sense of certainty.
o and the science LORs i got were from professors whose classes i took and got A's in. I didn't really know them aside from class and the occasional office hour but the letters they wrote were good enough it seems. I wouldn't really fret about your LORs as I feel they're fine.
I hope you can get in somewhere this cycle off the waitlists. If not, apply more broadly next cycle and i'd be very surprised if you don't get in somewhere.
best of luck!
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Many schools look at the letters after the interview invite.
A negative or lukewarm LOR can sink the best candidate.
A negative or lukewarm LOR can sink the best candidate.
I'm positive that I did not receive any negative LORs. Let's be clear, my letter writers were all excited to write me letters and took the time to talk to me about my ambitions before even agreeing to write anything. Neither do I feel they were "lukewarm" in terms of their feelings about me as a candidate. However, I just feel as though my science prof LORs were individuals who didn't know me as well as my extracurricular LORs, because those were individuals I worked with almost everyday for over a year each. I can't imagine someone really having a better letter from a science prof without having done research with them. However, I hear individuals having no trouble finding professors to write LORs for them, and to be honest, I had some trouble. Also, I had to scramble to find my second science prof LOR who basically talked about my rank in the class, and that I knew the material well, but then referenced her TA's comments about me for a better character reference. Now, I know the TA wrote very good things about me, and spoke strongly. However, I don't know if the professor's reference to the TA within the letter may be frowned upon or may seem weak.
I'm not sure if this is so, I'm just second guessing things that I was pretty confident about going in. Just like, I'm starting to second guess my interviews, even though I perceived them as "flawless". Again, I don't want to rebuke your comments. I just want to give my letter writers some credit for vouching for me. I know I am questioning the substance of what they wrote, but I still feel indebted to them for writing on my behalf and believe that they wrote strongly in favor of my candidacy, at least by their own standards.
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You'll get alot of interviews this time around too with your application.
I don't want to recommend it but if you want a change, try taking a different approach to a couple of your interviews. Alot of people, myself included, treat interviews like they were for jobs. But I only had so-so luck with schools where I tried to rattle off scripted answers in a flawless manner, engage in conversation but keep it focused on me.
But I was 2 for 2 with two schools where the interviewer mentioned something he was interested in that I was curious about. Totally unrelated to medicine, my candidacy, any extracurriculars I listed or the school but we'd just spend the rest of the interview talking about it. One was my second invited interview and I didn't know better (first interview I just got rejected straight out because I was overconfident and unprepared) while the other was a school I wasn't interested in attending because I already got into another school I prefered, and I gave alot of bored answers to before that point.
I doubt its something the admission committee's looking for because they both rushed the end of the interview with typical questions when they realized they were out of time and given the rush, I didn't answer them very well because its hard to adapt a rehearsed scripted answer. But I got into both schools anyways with outright acceptances.
I don't want to recommend it but if you want a change, try taking a different approach to a couple of your interviews. Alot of people, myself included, treat interviews like they were for jobs. But I only had so-so luck with schools where I tried to rattle off scripted answers in a flawless manner, engage in conversation but keep it focused on me.
But I was 2 for 2 with two schools where the interviewer mentioned something he was interested in that I was curious about. Totally unrelated to medicine, my candidacy, any extracurriculars I listed or the school but we'd just spend the rest of the interview talking about it. One was my second invited interview and I didn't know better (first interview I just got rejected straight out because I was overconfident and unprepared) while the other was a school I wasn't interested in attending because I already got into another school I prefered, and I gave alot of bored answers to before that point.
I doubt its something the admission committee's looking for because they both rushed the end of the interview with typical questions when they realized they were out of time and given the rush, I didn't answer them very well because its hard to adapt a rehearsed scripted answer. But I got into both schools anyways with outright acceptances.
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Get someone to coach you on interviews, if you had 10 interviews and are 0 for 10, I would suggest talking to someone about assistance with interview prep. Many people just need 4 interviews to get into 2 schools. If you are invited to an interview that pretty much means that the adcom thinks you are academically qualified for medical school, the interview is a way to see what you are like as a person, its really subjective, its the most subjective part of the process.
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I'd say probably focus on your interviews this cycle...that might be the only area you can substantially strengthen...Also you will have to be prepared to answer questions about your previous interviews (if you reapply to those schools and get interviewed again). Just a guess, but I think they would be curious about you if you interviewed previous cycle.
Just got into UTMB for class of 2013. I'm so excited. Thanks everyone for the advice and support. All I can say, is that persistence sometimes pays off. I kept updating them about what I was doing and why I wanted to go there. Food, if you ever read this, I'm rooting for you. Don't give up on that waitlist till the very last day.
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Haha thanks man. There's still technically 4 days until orientation, although that includes the weekend. There's really no way I'm getting in this year. Oh well, on with the reapps! Congrats on UTMB, I'm really excited for you. That must have been an amazing phone call or e-mail or whatever it was haha. I bet waiting this long made it all the more juicy.
