Non-******ed pre-med in need of pathology resident/attending input

[dientamin]

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I’ve been on here for the past few months and thinking about my potential medical career, and really, path is what seems to be by far most interesting and gratifying to me. However, I am far from sure, and have a lot of concerns:

• Getting in to path – Path is a moderately competitive residency to get into as far as I can glean. I’m just starting my junior year of college now; do you think by the time I get to my MSIV year (6 years from now) that path will be an incredibly competitive field? I know that there has been a recent surge of applicants to path (something like a 100% increase in the past 5 years?) – will it continue, putting path in to the insanely competitive ‘lifestyle specialties’? If not, let's make this thread our little secret. Moderately competitive doesn't scare me; derm/rads competitive does.

• The job itself – I have yet to get a shadowing opportunity, so in lieu of that for now: what is a typical day (or week, or whatever timeframe applies) in path? Is there anything I could do as an undergrad to get a feel for what this type of work is like (undergrads do research at my college; I could, say, work in a phage lab and get some in-depth microscopy experience)? How are the hours/call in residency and as an attending (I’m under the impression that both are spectacular compared to other specialties)? [side note: i don't expect it to be a cushy job time-wise, but anything over 70 hours a week would start to strain my sanity. I'm currently putting 50-60 hours a week in to school and I don't feel as if I have no free time]

• Compensation, dare I ask – do you think that path will continue to be a lucrative field (by this, I pretty much only mean to ask if it’s ever going to get as bad as, say, family medicine)?

• Path and me – I’m generally laid back (but not lazy), don’t like lots of fleeting relationships with people (i.e. customers, patients), enjoy lab work, like utilizing/synthesizing my knowledge (the more the better), would rather be a consultant than the person on the front lines, and prefer more solitary work than working with others (though I don’t mind the latter; it’s just that I'd rather do the former). Does path sound like a field I would like?

If I could be guaranteed a spot in path and it is as I am envisioning it, I’ll go through third year rotations for it. If not, I’ll become a software engineer. I really don’t want to go to med school, not get into path, and end up a freaking clinician. I seriously don't think I would enjoy doing anything else in medicine.

wtf?

 

[yaah]

Path will probably never be that competitive. If you are a solid student from a US med school I can't imagine you wouldn't be able to match into a decent path program. If you are a good student at a good med school, even less trouble.

As far as compensation, it is impossible to predict what things would be like more than 5 years down the road. Medicine is changing in regards to reimbursement. I don't think anyone really knows how it will turn out. I suspect medicine will always be a well compensated field in regards to other professions, but if you have huge loans it might not be that lucrative.

Your story is a bit questionable though, there are other things you can do if you like lab work and research - just get a PhD and be a researcher, or be a scientist of some other sort. Medicine and medical school is an awfully long tough grind if you aren't really interested in it.

It's hard to say how to get exposure to the field. The problem is that every premed in the country wants volunteer or paid experience in medicine while they are in college or on vacation. The trick is to find it. The best way to see what pathology is like is to somehow find a pathologist (ask around, I guess, at local med schools, people you know, etc) and see if they will meet with you and talk about what they do.

We have a lot of past threads on what we do with our day, I don't really want to take the time to talk about that now, I'm on call and tired!

 

[dientamin]

Thanks for your input, yaah.

When you're feeling more rested maybe you can share what you do on a daily basis, or at least point me to a thread where I can find that information (I can't seem to turn anything up with a quick search; I'll try again later).

*and to clarify, conducting research as a career doesn't interest me much. I'm the kind of person who would much rather learn skills and amass knowledge and then use these in a more... routine fashion.

 

[deschutes]

The FAQ thread stickied at the top of the list of threads on the main Path forum page is a good start.

It links to a previous thread by a pre-med...

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I've been on here for the past few months and thinking about my potential medical career, and really, path is what seems to be by far most interesting and gratifying to me. However, I am far from sure, and have a lot of concerns:

• Getting in to path – Path is a moderately competitive residency to get into as far as I can glean. I'm just starting my junior year of college now; do you think by the time I get to my MSIV year (6 years from now) that path will be an incredibly competitive field? I know that there has been a recent surge of applicants to path (something like a 100% increase in the past 5 years?) – will it continue, putting path in to the insanely competitive ‘lifestyle specialties'? If not, let's make this thread our little secret. Moderately competitive doesn't scare me; derm/rads competitive does.

• The job itself – I have yet to get a shadowing opportunity, so in lieu of that for now: what is a typical day (or week, or whatever timeframe applies) in path? Is there anything I could do as an undergrad to get a feel for what this type of work is like (undergrads do research at my college; I could, say, work in a phage lab and get some in-depth microscopy experience)? How are the hours/call in residency and as an attending (I'm under the impression that both are spectacular compared to other specialties)? [side note: i don't expect it to be a cushy job time-wise, but anything over 70 hours a week would start to strain my sanity. I'm currently putting 50-60 hours a week in to school and I don't feel as if I have no free time]

• Compensation, dare I ask – do you think that path will continue to be a lucrative field (by this, I pretty much only mean to ask if it's ever going to get as bad as, say, family medicine)?

• Path and me – I'm generally laid back (but not lazy), don't like lots of fleeting relationships with people (i.e. customers, patients), enjoy lab work, like utilizing/synthesizing my knowledge (the more the better), would rather be a consultant than the person on the front lines, and prefer more solitary work than working with others (though I don't mind the latter; it's just that I'd rather do the former). Does path sound like a field I would like?

If I could be guaranteed a spot in path and it is as I am envisioning it, I'll go through third year rotations for it. If not, I'll become a software engineer. I really don't want to go to med school, not get into path, and end up a freaking clinician. I seriously don't think I would enjoy doing anything else in medicine.

wtf?

As to your personality, pathology is not inconsistent with that.

As for competitiveness, it has increased at a modest rate. Overall, though, the number of applicants have not increased at an alarming rate. The cohort of uber-competitive folks has gone up somewhat but that cohort has always been present and the significance of the rise is dubious and only anecdotal.

I cannot predict how things will be in 5 years. It seems things have changed even since I entered the field of pathology a few years ago. Whether the upswing will continue, flatten out, or reverse is beyond my capability to predict.

Compensation-wise, I'm not going to pretend to have the expertise to predict things. However, there have been some threads here that profess to the feeling that compensation in medicine, overall, will decrease. Pathology will not be immune to this. In fact, pathology has seen decreases in reimbursements already. The ball has started rolling and we only hope that this doesn't lead to a snowball effect.

Irregardless, in medicine, one will always be able to live comfortably...it depends on where you're coming from and what you want in your life. If you want to make a buttload of money, perhaps medicine itself isn't the best option. There are other professions that provide more pay. But if you're OK with making a comfortable living, many fields within medicine can provide that...in which case, doing what you enjoy becomes the primary motivation as to what specialty you ultimately decide on.

You have lots of time. Don't be tunnel-visioned at your stage. Keep an open mind and make an informed decision, whether it be pathology or another field of medicine.

Also, making a hasty decision to go into a less competitive specialty is no excuse to slack in med school. Whatever you decide to do, you need to learn medicine...you owe it to your future patients whom you will directly or indrectly be serving.

 

[dientamin]

Irregardless, in medicine, one will always be able to live comfortably...

Yeah, I simply want to make sure I'm not barely clearing six figures after so many years of intense training.

You have lots of time. Don't be tunnel-visioned at your stage. Keep an open mind and make an informed decision, whether it be pathology or another field of medicine.

Most definitely. I was initially interested in medicine and explored options such as family practice and neurology, but after some honest reflection about my personality and preferences, I don't think I'm cut out for tons for patient contact. I've had several jobs with extensive customer contact before, and if medicine is anything like that ...

Keeping my options open as far as careers in general go is another good piece of advice... I'm also very interested in computers (particularly software), and will probably take a break from chem/bio this upcoming year to explore the comp. sci. option further to help give some clarity to what I really want to do. I did a lot of networking/PC repair/programming in high school and it was pretty cool stuff; I almost got cisco certified.

 

[Tiki]

Yeah, I simply want to make sure I'm not barely clearing six figures after so many years of intense training.

In academics (at least here in the mid-atlantic) you may barely clear six figures in path. Do not go into medicine for the money, you'll be miserable.

 

[gschl1234]

When I did my path rotation there was a premed who shadowed one of the pathologists for 1 day, sitting in sign-out (diagnosis made under microscope). She told me she was pretty bored since she couldn't follow what was going on. I don't think it would be difficult to find an attending who would be happy to have you coming to a sign-out or two. However, for it to be more worthwhile to you, I would suggest taking histology and physiology in college so you'll have an idea of what normal looks like and be able to relate structure to function. If you don't have time to do this, you could try studying on your own with textbooks.

As far as competitiveness, I wouldn't be too worried. I think any average med student from an acredited US school can get into any field they want. Sometimes they have to take a little detour (like taking a year to do research) but you'll get there if you're a good fit for the specialty, flexible and determined.

 

[docbiohazard]

Keeping my options open as far as careers in general go is another good piece of advice... I'm also very interested in computers (particularly software), and will probably take a break from chem/bio this upcoming year to explore the comp. sci. option further to help give some clarity to what I really want to do. I did a lot of networking/PC repair/programming in high school and it was pretty cool stuff; I almost got cisco certified.

If you have other interests - interests that are employable straight out of college - and you're not sure of your interest in medicine, you might want to take a year or two off to work and see if you really want to go back to medical school. At least in terms of grad school, people who have actually worked in the real world between undergrad and getting a PhD tend to be more likely to finish and finish faster. No idea if this translates to med school, but it seems like it might give you time to figure out what you really want out of life, and stash away a nice bankroll to help cover your expenses / lifestyle in med school.

I have no ideas of the practical impact this would have on your med school applications, so if taking a break and working in a non-science field before med school is a big "no-no", then don't do it. 🙂

BH

 

[polly]

Hi. I would like to add my 2 cents. No matter what field you choose, make sure you do your absolute best in medical school. While the residencies are not particularly competitive (depending on where you want to go), if you choose pathology, doing a fellowship after residency is a good idea (getting more important every year). Some of these fellowships are very competitive and some of them, like dermpath, actually look at your boards scores and med school class standing. Not to mention that having a solid medical education will help you immensely when signing out cases- both interpreting the clinical histories (if you are lucky enuogh to get them) and in figuring out what you are looking at.
So, study hard, work your butt off, and do well on the boards.
I also enjoy working independently, but you need to have some people skills- you will be dealing with other docs, techs, and occasional patients depending on your practice, and you will need to get along with your fellow pathologists and residents and be able to speak well at conferences.
And keep in mind that the clinicians are your "customers," and they can be ornery.

 

[dientamin]

In academics (at least here in the mid-atlantic) you may barely clear six figures in path. Do not go into medicine for the money, you'll be miserable.

Yeah, I'm aiming for middle class, maybe scraping upper-middle after any successful investing. I simply have an obsession with financial security since I've always been poor (e.g. being able to save money for emergencies, save for retirement, etc.); buying expensive and flashy things isn't really my bag (driving a $20K hybrid car is the fanciest I could imagine, personally). Is that expecting too much from private practice?

I would suggest taking histology and physiology in college so you'll have an idea of what normal looks like and be able to relate structure to function

Next quarter my program (we take one 16-credit program a quarter at our school) is focusing on infectious disease (lots of microbiology) and human anatomy and physiology, so I think I'll be getting a hint of what to expect from med school. I don't think we're doing any histology specifically, though, but I could be wrong.

The program i'm in now is basically an intensive first-year med school prereqs class with a strong focus on tying themes into medicine, and i can say that medicine is definitely a strong interest of mine; I just don't know if I want to do it for a living (for many reasons).

If you have other interests - interests that are employable straight out of college - and you're not sure of your interest in medicine, you might want to take a year or two off to work and see if you really want to go back to medical school.

That's a really good idea... I'm in a position where a dual degree would be easily in my reach -- maybe I could go for a dual Chem/Bio and Computer Science major, then take some time off to decide what I want to do.

So, study hard, work your butt off, and do well on the boards.

Most definitely; I don't plan on slacking at all. My only concern with the competitiveness of path residencies is whether or not I would have a good chance with anything other than phenomenal stats. And I think I have good people skills, I just don't like interacting with a ton of new people all the time. *shrug*

Thank you all very, very much for your advice; I'm starting to get a clearer picture of what I'm getting myself into.

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Oh, and an update as far as hook-ups goes: apparently the local county coroner is a huge fan of students at my school and regularly sets students up with forensic pathologists to see autopsies. I'm going to contact him and see if he could hook me up with something; even though forensic pathology isn't what I want to do particularly, it could still be a foot in the door.

 

[Circumflex]

Also, even if you are dead set on going into pathology, you still have to learn all the other stuff, do the clinical rotations, and take an endless number of tests. It's worth it if you enjoy what you are doing.

There are many alternative career options that people don't automatically think about. Think about biotechnology from either a research and development or business angle. Is there a certain subject that you love reading about or thinking about? Start there and then talk to people about career options.

 

[Master Chief]

and i can say that medicine is definitely a strong interest of mine; I just don't know if I want to do it for a living (for many reasons).

Let me be the first "negative nancy" to say that you probably shouldn't go into medicine. I am not saying this because of your posts....I tell everybody to go into something else. It is not that I am unhappy now, but if I had to do it all over again, knowing what I know know, I would definitely pass on medicine as a career. I have talked to alot of people throughout training about their views of medicine, the role of the doctor, the future of health care, changing impressions throughout medical school-residency-fellowship, etc. The bottom line is that in my informal polling, I would say that about 50% of the people I have talked to would choose to go into something else if given the choice again. Not to say that they are unhappy either at this point in time, but rather just considering the sacrifices one makes to become a physician, and the perceived benefit of being a doctor, it doesn't seem to be worth it. My two cents....

 

[yaah]

Part of that, though, is "the grass is always greener on the other side." I daresay you'd get a similar % of people in any field (except for pro athletes and musicians). I don't know many lawyers that are happy with their career choice.