Non-traditional applicant with 503 MCAT and 3.13 cGPA (after Post-Bacc) wondering about chances for MD or DO for 2020 Fall Application

[water224]

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Hi everyone,

I'm a 27 year old non-traditional medical school applicant. I graduated from college in 2015 with a Biology degree and a 2.88 cGPA. I have probably about 120 shadowing hours between MD and DOs among a range of specialties with over 300 hours in healthcare-related volunteer work since my sophomore year of high school. After graduation, I managed a medical training facility (working closely with both MDs and DOs) for about 3 years while doing volunteer medical scribing at a rural hospital. In 2017, I took the MCAT twice, scoring a 502 (first attempt) and 501 (second attempt). I then decided that in order to be competitive for MD or DO, I had to go do a post-bacc. I re-took my most difficult science classes in my post bacc for about 1.5 years, achieving a 3.80 cGPA in my post bacc program. My calculated cGPA through AMCAS and ACOMAS appears to be around 3.13. In 2019, I took the mcat for a 3rd time only marginally improving with a 503. I've recently accepted a clinical research coordinator position working for the Department of Defense.

This cycle (for fall 2020 admission), I've applied to 17 MD schools and 32 DO schools. Even though I feel that I have a very compelling personal statement (a lot of health issues growing up, why I'm motivated to become a doctor, I want to specifically practice primary care, etc.) I think my best shot at this point is DO which I am OK with.

My question is this: How competitive do you think I am for DO considering my background? Is there any hope at all for MD?

Thank you all for your help and advice, I really appreciate it.

 

[DocJanItor]

You're very likely DOA for all MD schools. If I were you, I'd save money by not sending in their secondaries. Not trying to be harsh, but your MCAT and GPA are both way below the average MD matriculant. Although you've shown great improvement in your coursework, MD schools are generally less forgiving of redemption stories. Also, somehow that hasn't translated into improvement in your MCAT. 501 vs 503 is basically within the margin of error meaning that statistically your score hasn't changed at all. This indicates a problem with test taking rather than a fundamental lack of knowledge. That's a huge problem for medical school because Step 1 makes the MCAT look like a kindergarten math quiz. Med schools won't be willing to take a risk on someone who might fail step.

DO isn't out of the question, although it will depend on the specific schools you're applying to. Your stats are much more compatible with DO but your chances are still on the lower side. Depending on your PS and your interviewing skills it wouldn't surprise me at all if you got an acceptance in DO.

 

[water224]

You're very likely DOA for all MD schools. If I were you, I'd save money by not sending in their secondaries. Not trying to be harsh, but your MCAT and GPA are both way below the average MD matriculant. Although you've shown great improvement in your coursework, MD schools are generally less forgiving of redemption stories. Also, somehow that hasn't translated into improvement in your MCAT. 501 vs 503 is basically within the margin of error meaning that statistically your score hasn't changed at all. This indicates a problem with test taking rather than a fundamental lack of knowledge. That's a huge problem for medical school because Step 1 makes the MCAT look like a kindergarten math quiz. Med schools won't be willing to take a risk on someone who might fail step.

DO isn't out of the question, although it will depend on the specific schools you're applying to. Your stats are much more compatible with DO but your chances are still on the lower side. Depending on your PS and your interviewing skills it wouldn't surprise me at all if you got an acceptance in DO.

Ah, I see. That pretty much confirms what I suspected. Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

Ah, I see. That pretty much confirms what I suspected. Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it.

I echo the sentiment that you're probably not very competitive for MD. Save yourself the time and cash, and don't bother with secondaries. But I think you have an interesting story, you did well in your post-bacc, and I hope DO works out for you. If you get accepted, make sure you're addressing any test-taking or learning issues that may have contributed to your initial GPA/MCAT difficulties.

If this cycle doesn't work out, make sure you stick around and see how you can keep improving your chances.

I don't have anything more to add, but I'm rooting for you!

 

[jmneddy]

I think you're probably pretty competitive for DO, especially if your personal statement highlights a desire for primary care and you have experience shadowing DOs. I know from a DO friend of mine that letters of rec from DOs are a must. Do you have those?

I do have two cents: don't over stretch yourself in terms of applying to schools. Applying fewer schools not only save you money but allows you to be more strategic and personalized in your attempts. Most schools send out secondary applications automatically! Get to know each school you are applying to. (I mean, REALLY know what they are looking for and craft your application and secondary to fit their taste. Highlight the attributes that those schools look for specifically--they aren't always the same!)

Regarding the MCAT...it's never to late to take it again. I got a 501 my first time, in May of 2018. I had spent SO much time studying, but it wasn't until I changed my study tactics that I was able to improve my score. I seriously spent only 1 month studying for the second test (which I took in September) and I increased my score by 10 points. Studying for the MCAT, make sure you are studying for the MCAT, NOT just the material. It's so much more about knowing how to take the test than knowing all the material that could be tested.

You've got this! Whether this year or next year--remember you ARE going to be a doctor if you stay determined!

Rooting for ya!

 

[Faha]

You should receive several interviews at DO schools with your stats.

 

[Goro]

You're very likely DOA for all MD schools. If I were you, I'd save money by not sending in their secondaries. Not trying to be harsh, but your MCAT and GPA are both way below the average MD matriculant. Although you've shown great improvement in your coursework, MD schools are generally less forgiving of redemption stories. Also, somehow that hasn't translated into improvement in your MCAT. 501 vs 503 is basically within the margin of error meaning that statistically your score hasn't changed at all. This indicates a problem with test taking rather than a fundamental lack of knowledge. That's a huge problem for medical school because Step 1 makes the MCAT look like a kindergarten math quiz. Med schools won't be willing to take a risk on someone who might fail step.

DO isn't out of the question, although it will depend on the specific schools you're applying to. Your stats are much more compatible with DO but your chances are still on the lower side. Depending on your PS and your interviewing skills it wouldn't surprise me at all if you got an acceptance in DO.

Agree 100%

 

[water224]

Thank you all for the advice, encouragement, and perspective, it means a lot to me! Sounds like the most reasonable course of action for me at this point is to give DO my best shot, and if I don't get in this cycle, to focus on improving my MCAT score. I would only consider taking the MCAT again if I was scoring significantly higher on all my practice tests though, because I think if I do take it for a 4th time, there has to be a very, very large improvement. Does anyone have advice on resources for MCAT prep, such as private tutors? I tried Kaplan during my first/second MCAT attempt, but I just did not find it very helpful. Thanks!

 

[DocJanItor]

Thank you all for the advice, encouragement, and perspective, it means a lot to me! Sounds like the most reasonable course of action for me at this point is to give DO my best shot, and if I don't get in this cycle, to focus on improving my MCAT score. I would only consider taking the MCAT again if I was scoring significantly higher on all my practice tests though, because I think if I do take it for a 4th time, there has to be a very, very large improvement. Does anyone have advice on resources for MCAT prep, such as private tutors? I tried Kaplan during my first/second MCAT attempt, but I just did not find it very helpful. Thanks!

Yes, I think focusing on DO for now is your best move. However, while I think you should give your best effort towards your DO applications this cycle, you should also prepare as if you won't be accepted. I say that because you don't want to wait until the end of the cycle next year (which would be late June/early July) before you start preparing to retake the MCAT.

To begin, you should try to identify what your shortcomings on the MCAT have been. Are you running out of time? Not understanding the question? Not enough prep time/practice tests? Nerves throwing you off your game? This is the most important step in preparation because you don't want to retake the MCAT again for little to no gain. You need a big gain (like 510+) to show schools that you've identified your problems.

Once you've figured that out (or if you can't identify your problem on your own), then you need to find resources to help prepare for the mcat. SDN, /r/mcat, and several other sites have a host of free resources and people that can give advice on how best to fix your prep methods. If that fails, you can always bump it up to getting professional advice and tutoring from companies like Kaplan, Princeton, UWorld, etc. There are a ton of them, but they range from expensive to very expensive.

Finally, you want to give yourself a LONG lead time to prepare for the test. You need to be hitting 510+ (and hopefully higher) on every single practice test before you even consider walking into that exam room. It's also going to take more time to prepare since you'll be working a job at the same time. 3 months is the standard prep time often quoted. You should probably start even before that since it will have been several months since you've reviewed the material and you'll need a lot of time to refresh/review. Make sure you take the MCAT no later than early June. You want to make sure that you have your scores back in time to submit them ASAP. You don't need to submit your application immediately, particularly for DO, but you'll want to do it before July is over.

 

[water224]

I think you're probably pretty competitive for DO, especially if your personal statement highlights a desire for primary care and you have experience shadowing DOs. I know from a DO friend of mine that letters of rec from DOs are a must. Do you have those?

I do have two cents: don't over stretch yourself in terms of applying to schools. Applying fewer schools not only save you money but allows you to be more strategic and personalized in your attempts. Most schools send out secondary applications automatically! Get to know each school you are applying to. (I mean, REALLY know what they are looking for and craft your application and secondary to fit their taste. Highlight the attributes that those schools look for specifically--they aren't always the same!)

Regarding the MCAT...it's never to late to take it again. I got a 501 my first time, in May of 2018. I had spent SO much time studying, but it wasn't until I changed my study tactics that I was able to improve my score. I seriously spent only 1 month studying for the second test (which I took in September) and I increased my score by 10 points. Studying for the MCAT, make sure you are studying for the MCAT, NOT just the material. It's so much more about knowing how to take the test than knowing all the material that could be tested.

You've got this! Whether this year or next year--remember you ARE going to be a doctor if you stay determined!

Rooting for ya!

Thanks for the advice! Yes, I do have a letter of recommendation from a DO that I've shadowed. My other letters included ones from MDs that I've worked with and 2 letters from science faculty.

 

[rdyotz]

The only concern I see is that it seems like your post-bac consisted only retakes of courses. Theoretically, you should have higher grades the 2nd time through. Did your postbac include any new courses? Based on previous info, DO sounds like your best chance, with a lower probability at your in-state MD schools.

 

[water224]

The only concern I see is that it seems like your post-bac consisted only retakes of courses. Theoretically, you should have higher grades the 2nd time through. Did your postbac include any new courses? Based on previous info, DO sounds like your best chance, with a lower probability at your in-state MD schools.

Yes, my post-bac did include new courses that I did not do in my previous undergrad, specifically physics 1 - 3 and a psychology course.

 

[RNthenDoc]

I think you’ll get shown some love by DO schools. Keep us updated!

 

[Dr. Faust]

Best resources are the AAMC practice tests/questions. Both times I have taken the MCAT, I scored the same on one of the practice tests as the actual MCAT. In my case, you need to learn the material more than taking the practice tests. First time I took the MCAT, I took 11 FL. The second time I only took 4 FL. I was taking so long during tests because my knowledge base was piss poor for biology. Work on the practice questions in the AAMC question packs, when completed, review and study all weaknesses. The retake the practice questions and try to reduce your answer time. Shaving off 30-40 seconds per question is huge and will give you more time on full length tests.

However, taking the MCAT 4 times and getting less than a 511 will just be a waste of time and money. Patients really don't care if you are an MD or DO, if you went to a Caribbean school, etc. If your dream is to be a doctor to take care of people, you can definitely be one. Good luck!

 

[water224]

Thanks everyone!

Quick update:

Yesterday I received an interview invitation from William Carey University (DO) in Mississippi for August 12th. I'm pretty excited about it and hope to keep getting some more interviews.

 

[water224]

Hi everyone!

Another update:

As I'm preparing for my interview at William Carey, I received an invitation from UW School of Medicine to complete a secondary application, which I am very excited about, as I understand that program filters for secondary invites. I have a particular interest in rural medicine, so I will be completing the secondary with a bias towards enrolling in UW's TRUST (Targeted Rural Underserved Track) program.

A lot going on as I've also just started a new job coordinating clinical research projects at Madigan Army Hospital, but I'm very excited about these next few weeks.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

Hi everyone!

Another update:

As I'm preparing for my interview at William Carey, I received an invitation from UW School of Medicine to complete a secondary application, which I am very excited about, as I understand that program filters for secondary invites. I have a particular interest in rural medicine, so I will be completing the secondary with a bias towards enrolling in UW's TRUST (Targeted Rural Underserved Track) program.

A lot going on as I've also just started a new job coordinating clinical research projects at Madigan Army Hospital, but I'm very excited about these next few weeks.

Oh, are you WWAMI? You might consider WSU ESFCOM if you haven't already.

 

[rdyotz]

Oh, are you WWAMI? You might consider WSU ESFCOM if you haven't already.

Agreed. Madigan is in Washington, so I assume poster has residency there. WSU has a 10th percentile MCAT at 501, with UW at 502. These schools would offer you your best chance at an MD school if you are in-state. WSU 10th cGPA is 3.24 vs UW 3.4, but your postbac GPA will be helpful.

 

[Dr. Let 'er Buck]

What WWAMI state are you?

 

[water224]

Oh, are you WWAMI? You might consider WSU ESFCOM if you haven't already.

Yep, I'm a native of Washington state and I have applied to WSU, but am waiting on a secondary back from them.

Thanks!

 

[water224]

Agreed. Madigan is in Washington, so I assume poster has residency there. WSU has a 10th percentile MCAT at 501, with UW at 502. These schools would offer you your best chance at an MD school if you are in-state. WSU 10th cGPA is 3.24 vs UW 3.4, but your postbac GPA will be helpful.

Ah, that's good to know! Thanks!

 

[water224]

What WWAMI state are you?

I'm in Washington State and grew up in Seattle.

 

[water224]

It is with pure elation that I write this, but I just got off the phone with the Associate Dean of William Carey. He was able to tell me that the admissions committee was very impressed with both my background and interview, and will be sending me an acceptance letter, which I will receive on October 1st. I am beyond thrilled right now, haven't even fully processed it yet, and am just so glad to see all of the hard work, blood, sweat, tears and sacrifice finally pay off. I won't be celebrating too early though, until I see that acceptance letter in my hands. I am also going to keep firing on all cylinders for my other applications, to ensure that I am giving myself the best options possible.

 

[Ell19]

It is with pure elation that I write this, but I just got off the phone with the Associate Dean of William Carey. He was able to tell me that the admissions committee was very impressed with both my background and interview, and will be sending me an acceptance letter, which I will receive on October 1st. I am beyond thrilled right now, haven't even fully processed it yet, and am just so glad to see all of the hard work, blood, sweat, tears and sacrifice finally pay off. I won't be celebrating too early though, until I see that acceptance letter in my hands. I am also going to keep firing on all cylinders for my other applications, to ensure that I am giving myself the best options possible.

Wow Congrats!!!!

 

[water224]

Hello everyone,

After a year of doing clinical research at a military hospital and interviewing at additional schools, I now have to make a decision on where to attend between Idaho College of Osteopathic Medicine, William Carey University College of Osteopathic Medicine, and West Viriginia School of Osteopathic Medicine.

 

[water224]

Any advice or thoughts on this would be much appreciated. I am not considering ICOM because it is so new. WCUCOM is slightly less established than I would like and they do not seem to be posting their most recent scores. As such, I am leaning more towards WVSOM as they are not only the more established school, but appear to have more resources for students, up-to-date info on scores and match rates, a GME program, as well as better weather for me personally than WCUCOM. The only hesitation I have between WCUCOM and WVSOM, is that I feel the faculty, students and culture were much more welcoming and friendly at WCUCOM, although I am unsure of how that impression may have been shaped by me just being excited for my first medical school interview. Thank you everyone!

 

[Shotapp]

Any advice or thoughts on this would be much appreciated. I am not considering ICOM because it is so new. WCUCOM is slightly less established than I would like and they do not seem to be posting their most recent scores. As such, I am leaning more towards WVSOM as they are not only the more established school, but appear to have more resources for students, up-to-date info on scores and match rates, a GME program, as well as better weather for me personally than WCUCOM. The only hesitation I have between WCUCOM and WVSOM, is that I feel the faculty, students and culture were much more welcoming and friendly at WCUCOM, although I am unsure of how that impression may have been shaped by me just being excited for my first medical school interview. Thank you everyone!

Go to WVSOM. Congrats again on your accomplishment!

 

[DocJanItor]

I second WVSOM. Know the area and have family who attended. Middle of nowhere but quality school and diverse student body.