Non-Traditional Question

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DLC9647

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I am a non-traditional applicant. I have been out of school and in the military for over ten years and I am taking the pre-requisites now that I am free 🙂 Does anyone know if dental schools will look at my sGPA in terms of what I am taking now or will they average in pre-requisite scores from 13 years ago? I took a few classes in my early college days but didn't do great and wasn't pre-dental at the time.

If anyone else has any general non-traditional advice..here's my story:

Ten years as Navy Pilot/Officer.
Undergrad GPA: 3.2
MBA GPA: 3.4
Pre-requ GPA: TBD
DAT: TBD

Thanks,
D
 
They will average in your grades from 13 years ago... But if you get A's in all your prerequisites, I'm sure it won't matter that you made a few bad grades in the past, in the grand scheme of things. It kinda sucks that your credit is considered "out-dated," but it will still count against you... I'm in a similar boat.

The pre-dental forum should have a non-traditional board, like the pre-med forum does. No one else understands us... 🙂
 
I am guessing they will appreciate your experience though. Just ace your prereqs now and you'll be fine. apply early
 
I am a non-traditional applicant. I have been out of school and in the military for over ten years and I am taking the pre-requisites now that I am free 🙂 Does anyone know if dental schools will look at my sGPA in terms of what I am taking now or will they average in pre-requisite scores from 13 years ago? I took a few classes in my early college days but didn't do great and wasn't pre-dental at the time.

If anyone else has any general non-traditional advice..here's my story:

Ten years as Navy Pilot/Officer.
Undergrad GPA: 3.2
MBA GPA: 3.4
Pre-requ GPA: TBD
DAT: TBD

Thanks,
D
I, too, was a non-trad with a shaky start almost 2 decades prior to going back to college. My second attempt at college was considerably better. You will be asked to report your entire collegiate history on the AADSAS application and these courses will be calculated in your GPA.

Knowing this, I addressed the issue head on in a letter I sent directly to each school once I knew they had received my application. In it, I asked that they consider the student I am today instead of the student I was 17 years ago, etc. In all of my interviews, the interviewer(s) mentioned this letter and commended me for taking the initiative to write it. One even stated they wouldn't have taken my application seriously without it because it wouldn't have made it past the inital GPA/DAT cut but that it made the take a closer look.

My advise to you would be to not let it stop you from trying and to turn what could be a potential negative into a positive. One of the most difficult aspects of the application process is promoting yourself without coming across as cocky. Unfortunately, we often think people see us as we see ourselves and let little things like a lack of confidence in our grades, etc get in the way. Good luck!
 
My dental school class of 40 had 8 "non-traditional applicants" accepted. Two of those were post military people. One was a Marine Captain attack helicopter pilot with combat experience. The other was a Navy Intel. guy that would not talk about his Navy experience. They both did well in school and were very highly regarded by the faculty.

Your life experience from the Navy will be very big plus on your application, trust me!
 
5 years is all that Physics, Chemistry, and Biology classes are good for?? I just graduated 3 years ago. I didn't realize that my classes would be considered outdated already! 😡😡😡😡


This is ridiculous, I took those classes my freshman year in 2002 and 2003. Congrats kids, unless I hear back from a school that they will accept my classes, there will be a little less competition for certain schools. I simply cannot afford to take those classes again.
 
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Great advice, I appreciate the feedback. It is ironic that classes expire, yet the grade does not. My hope is to somehow beat the automatic cut of GPA/DAT and get an adcom to actually look at my current academic aptitude and ability to contribute something diverse to the profession.

Thanks again, and keep the advice coming.

D
 
5 years is all that Physics, Chemistry, and Biology classes are good for?? I just graduated 3 years ago. I didn't realize that my classes would be considered outdated already! 😡😡😡😡


This is ridiculous, I took those classes my freshman year in 2002 and 2003. Congrats kids, unless I hear back from my top choices that they will accept my classes, there will be an extra spot opening up somewhere. I simply cannot afford to take those classes again.

I took almost all of my BCP prereqs between 2001 and 2003 and nobody told me that they weren't valid (even had AP cover my physics). It was my understanding that these classes would have to be repeated if you were applying 5 years after you graduated, not 5 years after they were taken.
 
I found this on Minnesota's admissions page.

Science coursework must include both lecture and lab instruction. Exemptions and advanced courses with fewer credits will be recognized, but transcripts or other academic records must clearly identify them and individual evaluations will be made. Courses in biology, chemistry, and physics may be considered outdated if taken more than five years before the time of application

So far it's the only one I've found but tomorrow I'm going to call the other 14 schools on my list and see where they stand.

http://www.dentistry.umn.edu/programs_admissions/DDS_Program/admissions_information/home.html
 
One thing that I have discovered this cycle is that there really are no provisions in dental school admissions for very non-traditional applicants like you and I. Even though I work full-time, go to school half-time, and have two kids to raise, plus the many other responsibilities that I have at home, dental school adcoms do not seem to view this as a positive. It actually is looked at as a negative because I am not taking 6 or 7 classes a semester. They are evaluating me as a traditional applicant. You are treated just like any other traditional candidate that applies, and you are evaluated on the same traditional standards as everyone else. I have an average DAT with a good GPA and about 20 years experience in a meaningful, responsible position in the health care field with tons of patient contact. I applied to 17 schools, and I received 1 interview where I was waitlisted. I think that the best way to get noticed is to really get a great score on the DAT (over 20). I was even told by an adcom to try a one year masters program to show that I can handle the work. I have many life experiences like yourself, and I have had many struggles in my 44 years. My feelings are that school work and getting through a rigorous dental program is really not as a great challenge for me as it is portrayed by adcoms. I am mature, I have a good work ethic, I do not have a learning disability, so the material is really not a problem. I know what I want, I just need the vehicle to get there. Don't get me wrong, dental school is tough, but I know myself very well, and I know that I can do it. My past employment has afforded me the opportunity to learn about disease, diagnosis, compassionate care, health care delivery systems and the problems associated with them. School work is school work.... I say pile it on. So, my focus this next cycle will be to improve my DAT score, call every school that I am interested and talk to an admissions counselor to determine how a non-trad can get noticed. Good luck to you.
 
If anyone else has any general non-traditional advice..here's my story:

Ten years as Navy Pilot/Officer.
Undergrad GPA: 3.2
MBA GPA: 3.4
Pre-requ GPA: TBD
DAT: TBD

Thanks,
D

I think being nontrad is definitely an advantage. When you combine your 'life' experience with your military experience, you quickly become a viable candidate for dental school. Make sure you find the time to shadow dentists in your area (50+hours) and if you have the time, do some volunteer work. Aim for As in your prereqs and score >20s on the DAT and you will have no problem getting into the dental school of your choice. Call or meet with admissions to establish a relationship and get word from the horses mouth what your favorite schools are looking for in their student.

I wouldn't worry too much about your 'legacy' grades. They will be calculated into your AADSAS GPA, but a strong upward trend can make up for it. As for my checkered past, I have 70 units with a GPA of 2.2 from 1995 that are still following me around. I finished my BSME and MSME with 3.3s, but my 'legacy' transcript brought my AADSAS GPAs to ~3.0 for both science/total. My prereqs/postbac GPA is 3.7. The strong upward trend in my grades definitely worked to my advantage. Take that along with strong DAT scores and I am now counting the days until d-school starts.

Knowing this, I addressed the issue head on in a letter I sent directly to each school once I knew they had received my application. In it, I asked that they consider the student I am today instead of the student I was 17 years ago, etc. In all of my interviews, the interviewer(s) mentioned this letter and commended me for taking the initiative to write it. One even stated they wouldn't have taken my application seriously without it because it wouldn't have made it past the inital GPA/DAT cut but that it made the take a closer look.

Awesome! I wish I had thought of that. I addressed my grade issues briefly in my PS, but I sure wish I had read your advice last fall. It all worked out, but I would have saved myself some sleepless nights if I had sent out letters.

So far it's the only one I've found but tomorrow I'm going to call the other 14 schools on my list and see where they stand.

Loma Linda has a five year limit on prereqs.
 
Simple and easy advice: 1)Try and do your best for the remaining of the classes your are required to take. 2) MOST IMPORTANT: DO GOOD ON THE DAT!!!! Since your a non traditional applicant, admission commitee needs to see if you can handle the work of dental school. The only way they can evaluate this is not by your GPA since it has been many years, but the DAT. Its a fair playing field for both non traditional and traditional applicants. They will rely heavily on this, so give it your best! Good luck to you! (This is only my opinion but it makes sense)👍
 
Prerequisites taken 5 years ago are no longer valid? It doesn't make sense to me considering I am doing my masters for two years, and by the time I finish, all my prerequisites are expired?
 
This has been the most competitive year they've seen. Think about it -- their average stats are going to be higher than they've ever been, which will attract even more competitive students next year, and possibly more money and prestige. They aren't going to let a non-traditional student with lower stats in, unless they're sure that in doing so, they won't mess up their stats too much. The dean of my state school told me that in past years, I would have most likely already been accepted already. Now, I fear that I will be lucky to get a spot on the waitlist. Sure, being non-trad is an asset if you have a 3.8 GPA or above...

I think whether to enforce the five-year expiry date is at each college's discretion... From Tennessee's website: Outdated Credit
Course credits in the required subjects become outdated if five years or more have elapsed between the completion of courses and proposed enrollment in the College of Dentistry. Complete details relating to the validation of outdated credit will be furnished to the applicant after the evaluation of records has been accomplished.

I didn't realize more people didn't know about this... Sorry to be the bearer of bad news! 🙁

The Memphis 2009 Acceptance thread has had some interesting discussion about non-traditionals. There are about three of us who are all similarly disgruntled and neglected.
 
I talked to a friend of mine who was a non-traditional applicant and is now a dental student. She said they are not strict when enforcing the 5 year expiration date on courses. If you do well on the Natural Sciences portion of the DAT, they will more than likely accept your courses even though they are more than 5 years old. This has been confirmed by at least one school already. 😀
 
Prerequisites taken 5 years ago are no longer valid? It doesn't make sense to me considering I am doing my masters for two years, and by the time I finish, all my prerequisites are expired?
SOME schools have such a policy. Do your research to see if the schools you are applying to have said policy.
 
Thank you all very much. I should have been a bit more clear in my question....I'm planning on re-taking all pre-requisites....I'm more concerned about the GPA-averaging. You see my freshman year I took Chem I, Calc-based Physics I, and Bio I....got an array of B-'s....I wasn't a focused student at the time etc...no excuses, but that was around 15 yrs ago...I wan't to show the student, leader, etc.. that I am now....yet, it seems like that may be a challenge if schools are using GPA/DAT formulas only.......

Thanks again...great advice
 
I think you are actually in a great position, at which to be starting over... Your science GPA will be basically starting at around 3.0 with just a few grades, and it can only go up from there. B-'s are a lot easier to overcome than C's, D's or F's, which a lot of us have for the same reasons that you mentioned... Just to give you an example, I got a C in General Biology and a D in General Chemistry 12 years ago, without having done any homework. At the time, I smugly thought that it was kinda cool and felt sorry for the "poor suckers" who actually did do their homework and still failed. Now, I think it was a pretty dumb thing to do -- to not even try, and I'm paying for it (double tuition and double jeopardy). You will do great! You should have no trouble bringing that up to above a 3.5. 👍
 
Did anyone going back to school to take pre-requisites only, go to community college? I hear varying things on this subject...but the fact is CC's have night classes for working professionals...larger schools do not. I understand why an undergrad would want to stick with a university but for non-traditional types, CC's seem like a great option....thoughts?

I also saw on a forum that BU, Temple, Tufts, NYU don't accept any CC work...anyone have any experience with that?

FYI: just a reminder, I'm a 32 yr old professional with a BA and and MBA....I want to go back and take my pre-requisites only

Thank you.
 
BU and TUFTs definitely do not accept CC's pre-req courses but NYU does accept bec I got into NYU with some pre-reqs at CC. I am not sure about Temple though.

Did anyone going back to school to take pre-requisites only, go to community college? I hear varying things on this subject...but the fact is CC's have night classes for working professionals...larger schools do not. I understand why an undergrad would want to stick with a university but for non-traditional types, CC's seem like a great option....thoughts?

I also saw on a forum that BU, Temple, Tufts, NYU don't accept any CC work...anyone have any experience with that?

FYI: just a reminder, I'm a 32 yr old professional with a BA and and MBA....I want to go back and take my pre-requisites only

Thank you.
 
It is ironic that classes expire, yet the grade does not.

Au Contraire...
It depends on which school you're applying to. I just had a conversation with the people at CU dental about this last week. They won't even accept credits for classes you took more than 10 years ago (I too am a non-traditional, ex-military applicant). So not only does the grade not count, the credits don't either. I'm not sure that they're necessarily saying they won't acknowledge that you received an undergrad degree.... but who knows.

I would definitely do some calling around about 13 y/o credits. Esp if they're from dental school pre-req classes.
 
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