Nontrad engineer, need help with application strategy

[Limelilly]

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I finished my undergrad in 2009 and have been working as an engineer since then. I want to apply to med school in summer 2019. I still need to finish the organic chem and biochem prereqs. I will take the MCAT in April. My undergrad gpa is ~3.7 from a top university but I don’t have much life sciences experience. I’m planning to volunteer in a local ER next semester and do some shadowing. I have some basic questions about the application process:
1) Do I need to submit an application on June 1st to be competitive?
2) For letters of recommendation, can a former supervisor write one of my letters? Can Psychology or psychological statistics count as a science/math LoR? If I can get a good letter of recommendation from a course I took online would that be considered?
3) Is there any benefit to enrolling in a one-year biology masters program for the 2019-2020 school year if I apply to med school in summer 2019? Would this be a plus for med schools or would they be confused by it? My goal would be to improve my biology skills.

Appreciate any advice

 

[gyngyn]

1. No.
2. A supervisor can be a good source for an LoE, but many schools want at least two science profs. Psych is not a BCPM science. Online courses would not be a good source for an LoE.
3. An SMP designed for a career switcher is fine.

 

[Limelilly]

Thanks, I appreciate the advice. What’s the latest in the year one can apply and be competitive?

 

[DocJanItor]

1) I wouldn't say you need to submit 6/1 to be competitive, but the closer to you are to Labor day the less competitive you'll be. Personally, though I know there are outlier success stories, anything after Labor Day is late and should probably be deferred until the next app cycle.
2) LORs vary by school, but most require 2 hard science professors and someone else. Some schools like to have an LOR from a doctor. I know as a non-trad that it can be difficult to get those, especially with online classes, but you have to make a relationship in order to get those.
3) A masters/SMP would be a huge waste of money for you, and if for some weird reason you didn't do well, could end up hurting more than helping. You have a 3.7 which is good for any application. If you pair that with a good MCAT then I think you will be golden. If you really want to take courses to up your skills, you can take more advanced courses online or from a university. Generally, as long as you've had basic bio, ochem, and biochem, you will be sufficiently prepared for medical school. Anything after that is just gravy.

 

[nobaddays]

Hi, I'm also an engineering career changer trying to apply next year. You've still got O-Chem and Biochem, so once you finish those (provided you do well) you'll have the life science skills you need.

I would suggest you use these courses as opportunities to get more "legit" science letters. I took all my science prereqs as night classes after work at CC (except Biochem, I'm taking online), and really went out of my way to talk to the Profs. Ask questions, do good work, take an interest in them personally if they mention any hobbies or interests. Sit up front and pay attention in lecture. Then at the end of the course you'll have a pretty good basis to ask for a letter. I try to open with something like "I know our academic interactions have been somewhat limited, but as a non-traditional student, it can be difficult to build the rapport typically associated with these letters..."

It's worked well for me so far, and I'm hoping a strong, recent letter from my post-bac in a real bio/chem class will be worth a little more to an adcom than some obligatory copy/pasted thing from an engineering prof I haven't seen in years.

Also, I'm not sure you'll be quite ready by next summer... Fall semester is already underway. This leaves spring to take Orgo and Biochem. Orgo 1 & 2 are prereqs for biochem. Then you've got to prepare for the MCAT and take it. It might be possible, but you may want to count on applying in 2020.

Best of luck, I hope I was of some help!

 

[Goro]

I finished my undergrad in 2009 and have been working as an engineer since then. I want to apply to med school in summer 2019. I still need to finish the organic chem and biochem prereqs. I will take the MCAT in April. My undergrad gpa is ~3.7 from a top university but I don’t have much life sciences experience. I’m planning to volunteer in a local ER next semester and do some shadowing. I have some basic questions about the application process:
1) Do I need to submit an application on June 1st to be competitive?
2) For letters of recommendation, can a former supervisor write one of my letters? Can Psychology or psychological statistics count as a science/math LoR? If I can get a good letter of recommendation from a course I took online would that be considered?
3) Is there any benefit to enrolling in a one-year biology masters program for the 2019-2020 school year if I apply to med school in summer 2019? Would this be a plus for med schools or would they be confused by it? My goal would be to improve my biology skills.

Appreciate any advice

If you're applying to med school in summer of 2019, and you're just starting an SMP in that same year, then the SMP will not help you until the 2020 cycles. Adcoms will want to to see that you can handle the rigor of an SMP, and thus will want your grades.

The MD cycle is generally June 1 to roughly Labor Day, and add a bit more for your state MD school, and for mission-based schools IF you fit their mission.

The DO cycle is June though end of November

 

[Limelilly]

Thanks for all the input, it really helps. The reason I want to apply next summer is I’ve been frustrated with my engineering job for a while and am really ready for a change. I’ve had to delay taking some of the prerequisites due to health issues (several surgeries with long recovery times) but now I want to do all I can to get into med school as quickly as possible. Is it ok to apply without having finished the prerequisites if I can do well on the MCAT? I’m also willing to leave my job next semester if taking more classes will increase my chances of getting in, however I do need to take ochem and biochem and realize these should be done in sequence.

 

[nobaddays]

Thanks for all the input, it really helps. The reason I want to apply next summer is I’ve been frustrated with my engineering job for a while and am really ready for a change. I’ve had to delay taking some of the prerequisites due to health issues (several surgeries with long recovery times) but now I want to do all I can to get into med school as quickly as possible. Is it ok to apply without having finished the prerequisites if I can do well on the MCAT? I’m also willing to leave my job next semester if taking more classes will increase my chances of getting in, however I do need to take ochem and biochem and realize these should be done in sequence.

I feel the pain of being frustrated with your job, but in my opinion, rushing will hurt you more than it will help. I haven't even begun my dedicated MCAT studying time yet, but personally I wouldn't consider taking the MCAT before I was done with Orgo and Biochem. If you really think you can nail it, then go for it, but that would not work for me. If I were in your shoes, I would focus on taking the required prereqs and building your hours. If you can do that in your free time, you'll be busy and the next application cycle will be here before you know it.. and you'll be better prepared for it.

It sounds to me like you've got at least a years worth of work to do before you can apply (even without the SMP). My advice: Keep working, take your prereqs and pay for them out of pocket if you can. Volunteer and shadow. Take the MCAT. Apply in 2020. It sounds like you're viewing the SMP as more of an escape from work than a means to an acceptance... Dangerous move lol.

 

[Limelilly]

I feel the pain of being frustrated with your job, but in my opinion, rushing will hurt you more than it will help. I haven't even begun my dedicated MCAT studying time yet, but personally I wouldn't consider taking the MCAT before I was done with Orgo and Biochem. If you really think you can nail it, then go for it, but that would not work for me. If I were in your shoes, I would focus on taking the required prereqs and building your hours. If you can do that in your free time, you'll be busy and the next application cycle will be here before you know it.. and you'll be better prepared for it.

It sounds to me like you've got at least a years worth of work to do before you can apply (even without the SMP). My advice: Keep working, take your prereqs and pay for them out of pocket if you can. Volunteer and shadow. Take the MCAT. Apply in 2020. It sounds like you're viewing the SMP as more of an escape from work than a means to an acceptance... Dangerous move lol.

Fair enough. Guess I’m just anxious to get through with this application process.

 

[DocJanItor]

Fair enough. Guess I’m just anxious to get through with this application process.

As a fellow former engineer who is currently in med school, you do not want to rush this process. You have good grades, you have lots of time to take your classes and study for the MCAT, and you have a paying job. I cannot stress how important it is to have your app totally ready so that you ideally only have to apply once. That means all courses finished, great MCAT taken before you apply (ideally only one great attempt), LORs, volunteering, and everything else all wrapped up. You don't want to give a school any reason to push your app to the side. It's already hard enough to be accepted as it is. Additionally, you don't want to have to check that "Reapplicant" box on the following year's application cycle; it's not a scarlet letter, but reapplicants definitely have a more difficult time getting an acceptance.

Believe me, I straight up hated my job and I was happy to walk out of there, and on the day you can do that you will feel a lot of happiness. On the flipside, you're going to spend a lot of money in the next 10 years, so enjoy having money (and save) while you can.

As is repeated so often on here, medical education is a marathon, not a sprint. Pace yourself.

 

[Limelilly]

Thanks for the feedback. By the way, can I count engineering and/or geology classes when calculating my science gpa?

 

[Limelilly]

If I exclude the engineering classes my UG GPA is 3.56 overall, 3.52 BCPM. With post-bacc classes overall GPA is 3.67, BCPM is 3.63. Does this change the answer to question about whether I would benefit from doing an SMP? Unfortunately my BCPM GPA first semester freshman year was quite low (3.07).

 

[nobaddays]

If I exclude the engineering classes my UG GPA is 3.56 overall, 3.52 BCPM. With post-bacc classes overall GPA is 3.67, BCPM is 3.63. Does this change the answer to question about whether I would benefit from doing an SMP? Unfortunately my BCPM GPA first semester freshman year was quite low (3.07).

I believe your math/physics would count. I would not include geology (not BCPM), but I could be wrong. I can't say if you would benefit from the SMP or not.. For what it's worth, my GPA's are lower than that after getting all A's and a B in my prereqs, and I plan on just going forward. I think your grades are fine. I'm sure you could learn loads from the SMP, and you may have a leg up if/when you start med school, but if I were you, I wouldn't do it for the sake of GPA reform.

 

[676188]

Thanks for the feedback. By the way, can I count engineering and/or geology classes when calculating my science gpa?

Both engineering and geology count for the AACOMAS. Not sure about the AMCAS.

 

[gyngyn]

Thanks for the feedback. By the way, can I count engineering and/or geology classes when calculating my science gpa?

https://students-residents.aamc.org/applying-medical-school/article/course-classification-guide/

Engineering and Geology are considered "all other."

 

[DocJanItor]

Thanks for the feedback. By the way, can I count engineering and/or geology classes when calculating my science gpa?

The answer is: it depends on the course. From the course classification guide: "Each course in the AMCAS application must be classified strictly on the primary content of the course. You are responsible for selecting the correct course classification, but AMCAS reserves the right to change classifications if the assigned classification clearly does not apply."

So, for example, I had statics, dynamics, and deformable bodies as a MechE. However, the entirety of those courses are just physics, so that's where I put them. I did the same with Thermodynamics, Heat Transfer, Fluids Mechanics, and a few others. Essentially, the more general the engineering course, the more likely it is that you can put it into the Physics or Chemistry category. For more advanced courses like Internal Combustion Engines and things like that, I classified them as AO.

And even with only a 3.5 GPA, the value proposition of an SMP is very low for you. You'd still have good odds of being accepted somewhere without an SMP, so why take the risk and spend the money? SMP is not a cake walk, and a lot of people get stressed out with pacing, acceptances, grades. Obviously you need to be able to handle that if you're going to be in medical school, but there's no need to add an extra year of stress and cost if you don't have to.

 

[Limelilly]

The answer is: it depends on the course. From the course classification guide: "Each course in the AMCAS application must be classified strictly on the primary content of the course. You are responsible for selecting the correct course classification, but AMCAS reserves the right to change classifications if the assigned classification clearly does not apply."

So, for example, I had statics, dynamics, and deformable bodies as a MechE. However, the entirety of those courses are just physics, so that's where I put them. I did the same with Thermodynamics, Heat Transfer, Fluids Mechanics, and a few others. Essentially, the more general the engineering course, the more likely it is that you can put it into the Physics or Chemistry category. For more advanced courses like Internal Combustion Engines and things like that, I classified them as AO.

And even with only a 3.5 GPA, the value proposition of an SMP is very low for you. You'd still have good odds of being accepted somewhere without an SMP, so why take the risk and spend the money? SMP is not a cake walk, and a lot of people get stressed out with pacing, acceptances, grades. Obviously you need to be able to handle that if you're going to be in medical school, but there's no need to add an extra year of stress and cost if you don't have to.

Ok makes sense. Thank you for the feedback

 

[SouplantationLover]

I finished my undergrad in 2009 and have been working as an engineer since then. I want to apply to med school in summer 2019. I still need to finish the organic chem and biochem prereqs. I will take the MCAT in April. My undergrad gpa is ~3.7 from a top university but I don’t have much life sciences experience. I’m planning to volunteer in a local ER next semester and do some shadowing. I have some basic questions about the application process:
1) Do I need to submit an application on June 1st to be competitive?
2) For letters of recommendation, can a former supervisor write one of my letters? Can Psychology or psychological statistics count as a science/math LoR? If I can get a good letter of recommendation from a course I took online would that be considered?
3) Is there any benefit to enrolling in a one-year biology masters program for the 2019-2020 school year if I apply to med school in summer 2019? Would this be a plus for med schools or would they be confused by it? My goal would be to improve my biology skills.

Appreciate any advice

We have similar background. Hope all goes well in 2019!