Any one know anything about this program for someone looking to do residency/M4 rotation next year?
Northwestern program
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I've rotated with guys from this program. Nothing extraordinarily stands out as being "bad".
I think their hours are good as well.
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shadowed a few cases here and a buddy of mine did summer anesthesia research here.
good program with a good rep, only problem is that a lot of the attendings and some residents are pwned by the CRNA's here.
good program with a good rep, only problem is that a lot of the attendings and some residents are pwned by the CRNA's here.
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excellent point. I totally forgot that the oen complaint was the CRNAs. Apparently they are 'unchecked' at Northwestern.
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for one of the cases,
the supervising MD disagreed with the CRNA on the drugs he chose to administer, CRNA got p*ssed, then asked the MD to step aside, and started yelling, straight out yelling at the guy , super disrespectfully , about how he didn't know anything about anesthesia and he doesnt need a MD telling him how to do his job, all in front of the surgeon, other resident, and students. the MD basically cowered and walked away.
i was shocked., it's one thing to disagree, but the way he talked to the doc was just embarrassing.
was my first eye opening experience about CRNA's. northwestern is a great program, but i wouldn't want to go anywhere where i was getting disrespected by anyone, especially a CRNA. it's not just the residents either, attendings are hassled by them as well.
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Mediocre program. Mid tier AT BEST.
why didnt the attending say anything?
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Northwestern CA-3 here. Have no idea what you guys are talking about or where you got your information.
We have a few really excellent CRNAs (i.e., probably better clinically than our 3 worst attendings). They seem nothing but committed to the ACT model. Of course, they all contribute to the AANA so I guess that statement doesn't mean much!
I have never been treated with anything but respect by our CRNAs and vice versa.
We have a few really excellent CRNAs (i.e., probably better clinically than our 3 worst attendings). They seem nothing but committed to the ACT model. Of course, they all contribute to the AANA so I guess that statement doesn't mean much!
I have never been treated with anything but respect by our CRNAs and vice versa.
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P.S. The good cases at Northwestern ALWAYS go to residents, not CRNAs or SRNAs. Period.
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Of course this is a joke...
Isn't it?
NW has only a name. Nothing more than that. Based on its past.
I would chose without hesitation something else.
2win
What, specifically, do you find lacking with their program?
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Graduated from there a few years back. A fantastic program. Residents were treated very well, but we worked really hard and learned a lot. Tons of cases, high acuity, great ICU rotations and awesome regional, OB and cardiac and peds anesthesia. There were no issues with CRNAs. They helped with cases and did never disrespect anyone around them and they were treated well.
NW is a sleeper program. At my current job and I am with guys from Stanford, UCSF, MGH, Mayo. Guess who they come to with advice with tough cases, blocks, or TEE issues? The Northwestern guy. Sorry, don't mean to sound like a snob. Excellent training is what you will get with NW. But you will work hard.
That program lacks nothing clinically and is totally Under-rated.
NW is a sleeper program. At my current job and I am with guys from Stanford, UCSF, MGH, Mayo. Guess who they come to with advice with tough cases, blocks, or TEE issues? The Northwestern guy. Sorry, don't mean to sound like a snob. Excellent training is what you will get with NW. But you will work hard.
That program lacks nothing clinically and is totally Under-rated.
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well, mine and my friends' experiences stem from the past 2 summers, and we're not the only ones who witnessed crna militance at northwestern.
obviously won't go against what a current resident says, but i will stand by what i've seen with my own 2 eyes. obviously not all the CRNA's were terrible, but there was definitely an unsavory incident between a crna and attending i witnessed.
as far as the education goes, i have heard nw. is a great program to train at and all that jazz, just the crna problems are a negative.
maybe it was an isolated event, but it wasn't the first i've heard of crna issues at northwestern.
obviously won't go against what a current resident says, but i will stand by what i've seen with my own 2 eyes. obviously not all the CRNA's were terrible, but there was definitely an unsavory incident between a crna and attending i witnessed.
as far as the education goes, i have heard nw. is a great program to train at and all that jazz, just the crna problems are a negative.
maybe it was an isolated event, but it wasn't the first i've heard of crna issues at northwestern.
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no clue. i'm hoping this was more of an isolated case than the norm .
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dude, though this may be true, it really makes me cringe to hear a physician say that. AANA eats this kind of stuff up.
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OK, let me balance that out with a story:
Was on a regional rotation a while back. SRNA shows up one day on her 2 week regional rotation (WTF?) and wants to watch. I had never really interacted with an SRNA before or had one sent to me in this manner. So she watched me and my resident colleagues put in tons of single-shot blocks and catheters and would occasionally ask a question here or there just to sort of pretend like she knew what she was talking about. We never let her (and she never asked) touch a block needle or the ultrasound. I wonder what her 2 week cardiac rotation was like?! Some curriculum. I wonder if I am listed as a SRNA instructor somewhere. 🙂
You are right to worry about the AANA, but if you are well-trained, you should not worry about CRNAs. They're nurses that cannot do the job of a physician. OK, enough before this thread gets moved or locked. 🙂
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I hate to say it but a lot of anesthesia attendings lack the balls to stand up and set the OR and its members straight. I don't believe in confrontation but there's a certain level of respect that the anesthesiologist must command in the OR.
Putting your head down in a situation where your dignity is stepped on by a murse, circulator or a surgeon, especially when done in a condescending, disrespectful and downright abusive manner is not my forte. In these situations my response is always fierce and unexpected and stops the offender cold on its tracks.
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i agree 100%.
sadly, growing a pair isn't something that can be taught in residency or med school, has to come naturally. i've seen my fair share of spineless anesthesiologists get trampled by surgeons and nurses alike.
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My recollections of the program are from interviewing.
I was really impressed with the facilities, to be quite honest. I think it's a huge plus as well that you rotate within the giant multiplex that is the Northwestern hospital systems and don't have to worry about commuting to distant sites for rotations. And most, if not all the hospitals are connected by tunnel or skywalk, which is great in the winter.
Northwestern is light on trauma. For me, this was a plus for the program as well. Patients are mostly private pay, higher end.
Some programs have an identifiable bent. For Northwestern, I felt this was OB. The women's hospital is also a huge referral center for the the Indiana, Wisconsin, Illinois area.
When I visited, they were in the process of building a new children's hospital, which was a positive sign too. Seems like they're not as cash-strapped and have a lot of vision for the NW-ern system.
I was also quite taken with their sim lab and pain clinic.
Nice resident call rooms, gym next to the call room/lounge (++++ for me). I believe there is a project requirement for graduation but there isn't a heavy research emphasis vs. UChicago.
I did not get to meet as many attendings as I would have liked to but I was quite impressed with the ones I met. I had a very interesting discussion with one of them about the argument for/against evolution from the concept of "irreducible complexity". We discussed the application of the coagulation cascade as an illustration of i.c. Yeah, go figure.
I was really impressed by that ^. (I think I may have just given myself away) 😳
Dr. Sullivan is the PD. He served in the military and has an MBA (+MD) so he is the poster child for efficiency and responsiveness (wrt resident issues). He is really nice and approachable but a little too suave, though so watch out for his flattery. I got a very nice letter from Northwestern after I interviewed, but discovered it was largely ubiquitous 🙁.
Dr. Stock is the chair and she's also warm, knowledgable and well-respected in the anesth world. You know your "Handbook of Clinical Anesthesia by Barash/Cullen/Stoelting/Stock"? That's Dr. Christine Stock of Northwestern.
The ONLY drawback for me was LOCATION. I love to visit Chicago but I really, really, really didn't want to live there.
I was really impressed with the facilities, to be quite honest. I think it's a huge plus as well that you rotate within the giant multiplex that is the Northwestern hospital systems and don't have to worry about commuting to distant sites for rotations. And most, if not all the hospitals are connected by tunnel or skywalk, which is great in the winter.
Northwestern is light on trauma. For me, this was a plus for the program as well. Patients are mostly private pay, higher end.
Some programs have an identifiable bent. For Northwestern, I felt this was OB. The women's hospital is also a huge referral center for the the Indiana, Wisconsin, Illinois area.
When I visited, they were in the process of building a new children's hospital, which was a positive sign too. Seems like they're not as cash-strapped and have a lot of vision for the NW-ern system.
I was also quite taken with their sim lab and pain clinic.
Nice resident call rooms, gym next to the call room/lounge (++++ for me). I believe there is a project requirement for graduation but there isn't a heavy research emphasis vs. UChicago.
I did not get to meet as many attendings as I would have liked to but I was quite impressed with the ones I met. I had a very interesting discussion with one of them about the argument for/against evolution from the concept of "irreducible complexity". We discussed the application of the coagulation cascade as an illustration of i.c. Yeah, go figure.
I was really impressed by that ^. (I think I may have just given myself away) 😳
Dr. Sullivan is the PD. He served in the military and has an MBA (+MD) so he is the poster child for efficiency and responsiveness (wrt resident issues). He is really nice and approachable but a little too suave, though so watch out for his flattery. I got a very nice letter from Northwestern after I interviewed, but discovered it was largely ubiquitous 🙁.
Dr. Stock is the chair and she's also warm, knowledgable and well-respected in the anesth world. You know your "Handbook of Clinical Anesthesia by Barash/Cullen/Stoelting/Stock"? That's Dr. Christine Stock of Northwestern.
The ONLY drawback for me was LOCATION. I love to visit Chicago but I really, really, really didn't want to live there.
How would you have handled that situation?
I agree, you shouldn't cower away, and I agree you need to have the chain of command respected. I'll be a CA-0 in a couple months, and to be honest, I'm not sure how I would have handled that other than with a covert injection of propofol to the disrespecting party's glutes.
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I would have called the desk and ask them to send another midlevel/resident available to relieve said offender (if I could not do it myself).
After case was over, I would have had a talk with the offender followed by an email to the chairman of the dept. explaining the incident and inappropriate response by the midlevel and why such a blowout was uncalled for, unprofessional and how it compromised patient care.
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if, in future, ever confronted by midlevels attitude...my reponse would be like:
Murse: blah blah blah...
I: interrupt the murse...then interject myself...
'EXCUSE ME, DID YOU GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL?' Answer would be NO...then you walk off.
Let the murse burn and say whatever the f**k he/she wants.
if i get into an argument with a surgeon, i will take him aside in the office and sort things out...
if its a nurse...CRNA or circulatory, or otherwise...she better know her place...
as a student, i HATED these nurses who just talked and talked and talked in the O.R. without a clue to what was happening on the table....jokes are fine and dandy...but please, i like it when people STFU.
