Northwestern's program.

[PsychStudent]

Does anyone know their track record with actually getting people into med school? The administration is very tight-lipped about that. Also, does anyone know whether you can take classes with the undergrads too/instead if you're in the School of Continuing Studies?

And finally, assuming one lives in Chicago and cannot easily move, do you recommend this program? Thanks so much!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[LUCPM]

Regarding Northwestern's program, I'm assuming you're referring to their prehealth professional program under School of Continuing Studies.

I have been in the program and trasferred to other institution (Loyola) due to their lack of support and organization for premeds. I believe their program is fairly new and do not have enough statistics as far as how many students successfully get into medical school after the completion of the program.

I met with one of the premed advisors there but she was not knowledgeable about the whole process and could not advice me anything. I also asked for the same information but she could not specify how many people actually get in each year.

As far as I know, this program is different from regular day school and they don't normally allow student from the program to take classes with day school students. You also have to pay the price and day school tuition is 3 times more expensive.

I'm now at Loyola and I'm quite happy that I transferred here. Their postbacc program is same as their undergraduate program but you're only classified as a postbacc and you take classes with regular undergrad students.

Hope this helps. PM me if you have any other questions.

JL

 

[Benna]

I'm in the post-bac at Loyola too, and I love it so far. I don't know much about Northwestern except that the hospital system (ENH) associated with the school is amazing. I've worked for them for six years.

 

[moonbunnie]

You are very limited in taking day school classes, I cant find the exact info I read on their website, but it works something like, you can only take 2 of them, only after earning like 16 credits through the SCS, and only if they aren't offered at the SCS. I actually have applied to both Northwestern and Loyola, and am waiting to hear back and then decide what to do. I will be working overnights, so the night classes at Northwestern would be convenient, but I don't want to go somewhere that won't give me the absolute best chance I can get for getting into med school.

 

[CremasterFlash]

I'm roughly halfway through the NU postbacc and while I can't speak for it relative to other programs, I would say that my overall experience has been positive but not overwhelmingly so. The vast majority of classes are at night. The core classes are taught in Evanston as well as their associated labs. The non-core classes in the school of continuing studies (physiology, anatomy, bioethics, etc etc) are taught in both Evanston and Chicago proper (about 30 min drive for those not familiar w/Chicago geography - there is a shuttle).
They are not forthcoming about their admission stats, at least as far as I can tell. My guess is this is because it's absurdly easy to get into the program. As a result, their hit ratio is probably very low as poor students continue to be poor students. The program is relatively new and it feels like they're still figuring out how to put some structure around it. I would guess that their admissions requirements will drift upwards over time. Generally the trend of the program is positive - new classes, new clubs, remodeled facilities, etc. Advising is well intentioned but not particularly useful. That being said, the classes are challenging and I feel that if I do well (4.0 so far) I should have a good shot at admission just as anyone would from any other 'reputable' institution - hopefully not less and probably not more. The quality of teaching is either very good or just good depending on your classes. If you went to a huge university where you were taught by TAs in your intro classes, you probably will be impressed and happy. If you went to a small liberal arts school you will probably feel a little underserved. You can take classes with the day-students but it requires a petition (I did submitted one and was denied) and some sort of compelling argument, I believe the class you want to take has to be only offered as a day class. One thing mentioned by another post is the quality of the associated hospitals. This was a big plus for me, I started volunteering at Northwestern Memorial and was hired by my department (tuition benefit, wahoo!) to perform research. As a result, I expect to have a couple publications prior to my application next year. So as an institution, it's helpful to have an entree into the hospitals and their faculty. These relationships may help eventually with admissions although I'd say it's a longshot. This is not to say that being in the postbacc is a guarantee of exposure to NU clinical research or that students in other postbacc programs don't volunteer and work at the hospitals, just that the relationship makes the exposure easier to come by. I hope this makes sense, I've been studying chemistry all day and my brain is a bit fried.

In sum, the administration is very student friendly, which is one reason I'm willing to be optimistic for the program's future, its present is good but could be significantly better. I get the feeling that the institution itself is not going to make much difference in one's chances.

 

[ocdmd]

Hi all,

I completed the NU post-bacc a little while back, so I thought I'd chime in on this subject. I did extremely well and had a lot of success in applying to medical schools. Therefore, I don't regret my decision to go to NU over Loyola or UIC. That being said, I would strongly suggest that working students (especially those planning on work full time) or people with family obligations to not take the program for a couple reasons.

First, I thought (and this has been confirmed by ppl who switched out of program) that NU's post-bacc was very difficult relative to other programs. A post bacc is a post bacc is a post bacc. The simple truth is that all post-bacc's, so long as its not at community college, are viewed more or less the same. Anyone who tries to tell you that doing it at NU will give you a big advantage is foolish. That was one of the big selling points for the program. However, if you talk to ppl who have completed it AND got into med school, they will probably tell it didn't make a big difference. As a post-bacc student, you're MCAT is going to be scrutinized more. In a sense, the MCAT either validates or invalidates your grades. If you get 30+ then your grades (3.5+) are meaningful. If you score sub 30, then your grades (3.5+) look suspect. You won't get the benefit of the doubt like students who take pre-med classes as undergrads at Northwestern, UChicago, blah, blah, blah. Fair or not, post baccs aren't given the same credit. The only exceptions to this are the very well established programs that have linkages with med schools, like Bryn Mawr in Pennsylvania. Since most post-baccs are essentially all the same, its more important to take the classes at the institution that gives the best chance to earn As. At the end of the day, do u really care how challenging your post-bacc was? Do you really care that you conquered Barry Coddens orgo, even if you come out of it with a B-. At the very least, I've seen orgo exams at Loyola and they are much more reasonable. It's not that they are easy but rather more straight forward, closer to stuff you actually studied in the orgo book.

Some people argue that doing a challenging post-bacc will better prepare for the MCAT. I teach for Princeton, I can tell you that this is a myth. The level of science knowledge needed is very basic, so being tested on really obsure, detailed information in your orgo and bio exams will not help you that much. The test structure is completely different. Half the battle of the MCAT is picking relevant info out of passages. You will never do this in your science classes. In my opinion, the MCAT is essentially a reading comprehension test using science related passages. The best way to prepare for the MCAT, is to work on MCAT passages (duh). If you really want to do better on MCAT, start reading more. I'd suggest dense, boring magazines like the Economist. This will help improve your reading stamina, concentration, maybe speed, and comprehension of difficult material. It works wonders for your verbal score, if you stayed committed to it.

The main reason why the post-bacc NU isn't good for working ppl is that you won't be on a level playing field with some of your classmates. There will be several ppl who don't work and simple devote their time to the two or three pre-med classes that you might also be taking. Not surprising, these ppl tend to do the best. If you take classes at Loyola, the day students take 5 classes a semester. Their time is much more spread out between classes, ECs, and social obligations. Plus, undergrads as a group aren't nearly as focued and motivate as older,post bacc students with a ton of time on their hands. You will have a much better chance of success. That being said, I understand that a lot of people can only work during the day and have to take classes at night. If you're in that boat, my honest suggestion would be to hold off on take a post-bacc. Save money so that when you do take classes, you can work part-time at worst.

Post-baccs are sort of a last shot attempt at med school. If you screw up, then the odds of you getting in (to M.D. at least) are slim, even if you switch to another post-bacc and start over. Therefore, it's vital that you get it right the first time, and I personally thought a couple of smart ppl got screwed at NU because they didn't have the time to compete with ppl who weren't working.

Well, those are my thoughts. I do feel that the administration at NU was responsive and friendly, but I almost never talked to them for the most part. Good luck pursuing med school. It's important to work hard, but its equally as important to put yourself in a situation where you have the best chance of success.

 

[ocdmd]

double post

 

[magiceye]

How hard is it to get admitted into Northwestern's Post Bacc program?

Also, what medical schools did you all get accepted into after studying at Northwestern's Post Bacc?

Thanks.

 

[DrAlex86]

I'm currently a junior at Northwestern University's day school. I decided this year that I would like to become a doctor, seeing how badly I disliked law and then had absolutely no drive for business (I'm an economics major). I am behind in the pre-med requirements and was considering taking the School of Continuing Studies' Post-Bacc program. What I learned though is that even though the classes are taught once a week at night, and with the labs I believe on Saturdays, the courses are essentially taught by the same professors at the day school. I have decided to take biology and physics during my undergraduate session, and take both general chemistry and organic chemistry and preferably UIC and Elmhurst college, respectively. I think that the biggest drawback of the program does come from the extreme difficulty of some of the classes. From what I've heard, the program at SCS is much more difficult than other programs in the area, such as Loyola. Chemistry is one of the most notorious subjects at Northwestern and should be avoided. I have heard many horror stories about how terrible chemistry is, and this is coming from top tier students that work a lot. I have heard that programs such as Loyola are much easier and people do like it a lot more. Also, taking non-degree courses at schools like UIC might be good too since if you live in Illinois, you pay in-state tuition. What holds true for most post-bacc students is that as long as you didn't attend community college for the courses, you should be fine. I would avoid Northwestern unless you can squeeze chemistry in elsewhere and perhaps try the "build your own PDP (professional development program)" to take physics, biology, and then maybe squeeze a couple of easier related courses such as ECON-307-CN Economics of Healthcare and perhaps ethics or history courses pertaining to healthcare. Good luck! 👍

 

[PsychStudent]

Hmm, I'm currently taking gen chem in the SCS program and finding it quite doable. Are you talking about the organic chem class?

 

[CremasterFlash]

Hmm, I'm currently taking gen chem in the SCS program and finding it quite doable. Are you talking about the organic chem class?

Me too. Take gen. chem with Adina Ott. She is a very good professor and makes the subject VERY doable. If you study you will do well, very fair tests, nothing crazy/tricky about her class.

 

[PsychStudent]

CremasterFlash, are you currently taking physics? How is that class? I'm planning to take it this summer with the same prof.

 

[DrAlex86]

I'm not taking chem at SCS. I go to the day school and know people that are taking general chemistry at day school. Professors like Ratner for example are good but very hard nonetheless. The same professors teach the SCS courses as day school, so there isn't much advantage to taking SCS courses over day school, they won't be any easier other than being once a week. I am taking economics at SCS now, which is the one course I'm allowed to take at SCS as an undergrad at Weinberg, and it's much easier, but too bad the same can't be said for science.

 

[DrAlex86]

Oh yes, I forgot to add a couple things... First, Adina Ott does appear to have favorable CTEC's about her course, but students still say that it is a very challenging course. I'd like to go back to what ocdmd about Northwestern being very challenging. The science courses are not a joke, even if you take them at SCS. If you look at PHYSICS 130-1,2,3 at the day school and at SCS, they are both taught by Schmidt. I hear he is a good professor but is definitely very difficult. So even though the post-bacc program at Northwestern is doable, it is still more challenging than another programs like Loyola and UIC. So yes, general chemistry might be doable with a lot of work at SCS, but when the same course can be completed at a considerably easier level, then it might be worth taking the easier course. This is why I will be avoiding chemistry all-together at both the day school and SCS.

 

[CremasterFlash]

CremasterFlash, are you currently taking physics? How is that class? I'm planning to take it this summer with the same prof.

Yup, Schmidt is great. Class is not very difficult, his tests can be tricky but he's very generous with his curve and with extra credit. So let's say you mess up and get a B on a test. You can do one or two extra credit labs (maybe 2 hrs each) and make up 10 pts each which will definitely get you back into A territory.

Generally I'd say I've learned a tremendous amount in both Chem and Physics, neither are very difficult if you study a reasonable amount. Both provide chances to overcome any relatively isolated poor performance (i.e. a bad test or lab or whatever).

 

[CremasterFlash]

One thing I would add - I work only three days/week and volunteer one. This leaves me with an extra day to study during the week. This is pretty critical in my opinion. I would NOT take more than one of these classes if one works full-time and wants to maintain a 4.0. Like I said, they're not particularly difficult, but they do require study time.

 

[jules922]

I did my undergrad at NU and took about half of my pre-med sciences then, and then did post-bacc classes at Loyola and NU's SCS.

I learned NOTHING in my classes at Loyola - but they were the easiest As I ever got.

I learned A TON in my classes at NU (both regular undergrad and SCS), but it was MUCH harder to get As. However I really learned the material at NU, did some very advanced labs (compared to the labs at Loyola, which were an absolute joke - I did more advanced stuff in middle school), and the NU classes prepared me much better for the MCAT.

Also, the costs of post-bacc classes at NU and Loyola are about the same (actually NU can sometimes be cheaper because they don't treat lab as a seperate class - so I usually paid $1600/class at NU and more like $2000 at Loyola).

 

[Phoenix.]

I don't know about NU classes, but I'm taking my postbac classes at Loyola. I just wanted to add that not all classes at Loyola are a breeze and/or won't prepare you for the MCAT. It ALL depends on who you take. I highly recommend checking out www.ratemyprofessors.com before signing up for a class at Loyola (be sure to read ALL reviews for a prof and take some with a grain of salt). For Chem I (all multiple choice exams with a huge curve) the instructor couldn't teach at all, and while I got As on everything relatively easily, I didn't learn much that I remember. On the other hand, my Chem II prof was fantastic (all exams were working problems), and I worked hard for my A and learned the material very well. Same with Physics. Physics I was a joke and I learned nothing, while I got the better prof for II and while the class is pretty easy, it's mainly because he's a great teacher and I'm learning Physics II pretty well. Bio also just depends on who you get, and I don't believe in an easy Orgo class (my current one (Orgo II) is kicking my a$$ even though I've aced all my other classes). The labs for Bio, Orgo and Physics are silly, but the Chem labs were quite a bit of work (especially Chem Lab II) with all the lab write ups. The substance of the labs is pretty pedestrian, however.

I think you just need to know how you learn. If you learn on your own pretty well from a book, I'd take classes at Loyola and get the easy As. If you learn best in a class, either go with NU or take your classes at Loyola, but be VERY picky who you take. As a postbac you'll get first dibs at registration, so you can get into any class you want. Feel free to send me a message if you'd like more info on who to take and who not to take.

 

[DrAlex86]

I don't know about NU classes, but I'm taking my postbac classes at Loyola. I just wanted to add that not all classes at Loyola are a breeze and/or won't prepare you for the MCAT.

I think that for some people, it might be easier to take courses to get better grades, and then practically re-learn everything for the MCAT. I would much rather have a high GPA, and then practically re-learn what I need to in a course like Kaplan, than having to forfeit my GPA. While it's challenging having to re-learn the material, at least your GPA won't be affected by what you do outside of school. With hard work, you can get anywhere you need to. I guess this is just the kind of person I am.

I met with my undergraduate adviser yesterday and she directed me towards pre-med advising, which I will go to after finals and spring break. But she did agree with me that if I decide to pursue a post-bacc instead of taking courses in a scattered and separated manner, then it would be a good idea to avoid Northwestern because it is more difficult than other programs. I guess that I will keep all options open until after I meet with the adviser. For anyone else pursuing a post-bacc, best of luck and try to find the program that best suits you.