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You should start making your life suck less. You're in college now, and should have pretty good control over how your life works. Own your decisions, don't blame the process for you being miserable.
Not enjoying life at all
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Wym you're not earning enough to be comfortable? Why is that? That's a scary thought spending 8+ years in school only to not be able to live comfortably
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I didn't mean for it to sound like that. I meant I already wasn't happy, and worked hard because I thought I would be happy at an ivy league. And I'm now not happy, but I'm working hard because I'm hoping to be happy having a family and living comfortably
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Your response actually makes my advice more apropos, not less.
Read this thread and learn something from it regarding delayed gratification being a myth, finding things to be happy about in your current life, etc. You will never become happy by reaching that future goal without changing something about yourself as well. A family and a comfortable life don't guarantee happiness or life satisfaction any more than getting into your ivy league school did. Good luck.
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A lot of the frustration in this thread, as mentioned, doesn't seem to be with medicine per se but in terms of working in a long houred intense career path. I find it curious that a lot of the things listed here weren't things everybody knew going in. Hierarchy, having to kiss ass, being paid poorly as a resident, MBAs in charge -- is any of this really a shock? Did none of you ever see an episode of Scrubs even? None of this should be news to you guys.
I agree with the prior poster who said residency is going to be harder than med school. And guess what -- in a lot of ways being an attending is harder than being a resident. This is a hard path you chose. As for enjoyment -- most is attitude. If you have a good attitude about things, you will tolerate a few negatives. If you adopt the mindset of the downtrodden, then that's kind of the way everything is going to play out for you.
I agree with the prior poster who said residency is going to be harder than med school. And guess what -- in a lot of ways being an attending is harder than being a resident. This is a hard path you chose. As for enjoyment -- most is attitude. If you have a good attitude about things, you will tolerate a few negatives. If you adopt the mindset of the downtrodden, then that's kind of the way everything is going to play out for you.
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Most pre-meds out here trying to get in and endlessly stressin' to get in ur position and you bitchin?
bruh.
bruh.
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Most pre-meds don't really know what they're getting themselves into. But sure, go ahead and tell people how they should feel about something you haven't experienced.
(For the record, I'm mostly enjoying medical school - and I believe it largely has to do with realistic expectations about medical school and life in general - but it doesn't negate my point.)
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And in medical school, you'll need to do a whole lot to get into a good residency. And even after residency, you'll have to work hard to provide decent care to your patients and stay on top of your medical knowledge/skills. Having to work hard never stops. Welcome to a highly demanding profession (quit if it doesn't fit your idea of a good life).
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Oddly beautiful statement coming from you...
There's a very real possibility that the OP simply doesn't want to be a doctor. I can't tell you how many of my fellow undergrads were pre-med because they "always wanted" to be a doctor (or worse, were told that they wanted to be a doctor) and went straight from undergrad to med school without actually giving serious thought about whether they actually wanted to follow this path.
In contrast, I was not entirely pre-med in undergrad. I considered it, but I knew I would never be happy in the field unless I was 100% committed. I started out on a slightly different path and worked full-time for 5 years before pursuing medical school. And now in my mid/late 20s, I am an MS-1 and happy as a clam. Sure, there are rough moments, but I know those moments exist and actually are much more plentiful in other fields. I know what it's like to work 70 hours a week for, yes, less than what residents make. I know what makes me intellectually and emotionally fulfilled. And knowing that allows me to place med school struggles in a greater context in a way that an automaton on the med school path from age 17 wouldn't be able to. And just anecdotally, I do notice in my class that the non-trads are, in general, happier and more engaged than the 22-year-olds.
So I wonder how much of this could be the OP just not having the opportunity to really figure out what he/she wants to do. Let's face it, a person who doesn't actually have a deep desire to pursue medicine can make it into med school if they check off all the boxes they're told to check off as a pre-med. At my school there were pre-med advisors that worked with pre-meds from their freshman year, making sure they checked the boxes and coaching them on interview skills. They learned to say how passionate they were about helping those in need. They learned how to play the game. And I'm not at all denigrating the game because that's how life works; "the game" is present in all careers, in all disciplines.
While it's true that a medical career provides all sorts of advantages, I would encourage the OP to do a gut check to see whether he/she actually wants to continue down this path. If you survey all the options and decide that this is, indeed, actually what you want to be doing with your life, then yes, you'll have to learn how to find the positive in stressful situations as people here have suggested. But if you just kind of accidentally found yourself in med school and would rather be pursuing something else, consider doing that.
In contrast, I was not entirely pre-med in undergrad. I considered it, but I knew I would never be happy in the field unless I was 100% committed. I started out on a slightly different path and worked full-time for 5 years before pursuing medical school. And now in my mid/late 20s, I am an MS-1 and happy as a clam. Sure, there are rough moments, but I know those moments exist and actually are much more plentiful in other fields. I know what it's like to work 70 hours a week for, yes, less than what residents make. I know what makes me intellectually and emotionally fulfilled. And knowing that allows me to place med school struggles in a greater context in a way that an automaton on the med school path from age 17 wouldn't be able to. And just anecdotally, I do notice in my class that the non-trads are, in general, happier and more engaged than the 22-year-olds.
So I wonder how much of this could be the OP just not having the opportunity to really figure out what he/she wants to do. Let's face it, a person who doesn't actually have a deep desire to pursue medicine can make it into med school if they check off all the boxes they're told to check off as a pre-med. At my school there were pre-med advisors that worked with pre-meds from their freshman year, making sure they checked the boxes and coaching them on interview skills. They learned to say how passionate they were about helping those in need. They learned how to play the game. And I'm not at all denigrating the game because that's how life works; "the game" is present in all careers, in all disciplines.
While it's true that a medical career provides all sorts of advantages, I would encourage the OP to do a gut check to see whether he/she actually wants to continue down this path. If you survey all the options and decide that this is, indeed, actually what you want to be doing with your life, then yes, you'll have to learn how to find the positive in stressful situations as people here have suggested. But if you just kind of accidentally found yourself in med school and would rather be pursuing something else, consider doing that.
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And you will still have MBA types you'll work under and bosses you need to kiss up to in most settings (unless you hang up a shingle doing a cash only business).
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If you're determined to be unhappy, you'll be unhappy, regardless of what anyone in this thread tells you.
Based on every complaint you've made so far, I find it hard to believe you really knew what you were getting yourself into. And that's fine. Few people understand the day-to-day reality until they arrive. Just be honest about the fact that you didn't expect all this.
Seems to me like you're really looking for commiseration from others who feel the same way. Med school is stressful, and I'm sure you'll find people who agree. I had a few days here and there where I felt like you do, but 99% of the time I realized I had it pretty damn good and that the alternative wouldn't necessarily be better.
This actually reinforces the point we're trying to make. When med students feel like they're "giving up their 20s," most people assume the alternative to med school includes starting their careers at 22, gradually making their way up the workplace ladder, having several years of income under their belt by 25-26, and plenty of discretionary income for partying and vacations in between. That's no longer reality, as you pointed out in your post. There's a very real possibility that had you not gone to medical school, you would have struggled (and failed) to find work in your desired field, settled for a lower-paying less-fun job or taken out more loans to get a master's, and ended up stressing through your 20s in a different way.
A lot of my undergrad friends couldn't find work directly out of college and had to settle. Some are having trouble making ends meet. One is afraid he can't afford children with his current income/expenses. Several are working more hours than I currently do. Life could be worse on the outside.
Based on every complaint you've made so far, I find it hard to believe you really knew what you were getting yourself into. And that's fine. Few people understand the day-to-day reality until they arrive. Just be honest about the fact that you didn't expect all this.
Seems to me like you're really looking for commiseration from others who feel the same way. Med school is stressful, and I'm sure you'll find people who agree. I had a few days here and there where I felt like you do, but 99% of the time I realized I had it pretty damn good and that the alternative wouldn't necessarily be better.
This actually reinforces the point we're trying to make. When med students feel like they're "giving up their 20s," most people assume the alternative to med school includes starting their careers at 22, gradually making their way up the workplace ladder, having several years of income under their belt by 25-26, and plenty of discretionary income for partying and vacations in between. That's no longer reality, as you pointed out in your post. There's a very real possibility that had you not gone to medical school, you would have struggled (and failed) to find work in your desired field, settled for a lower-paying less-fun job or taken out more loans to get a master's, and ended up stressing through your 20s in a different way.
A lot of my undergrad friends couldn't find work directly out of college and had to settle. Some are having trouble making ends meet. One is afraid he can't afford children with his current income/expenses. Several are working more hours than I currently do. Life could be worse on the outside.
I am so glad I did not jump into medical school after undergrad, medical school is not like undergrad where you get to have fun and have the kind of freedom you used to have. There are so many higher expectations put upon your shoulders, much higher academic performance standards, much higher professional conduct and behavior standards, everything that its a much harder experience.
I honestly think its better for most students to work for a few years before applying to school. I think medical schools should frown less upon applicants who have been out of school for a few years. Many medical schools, particularly MD schools, view applicants who have been out of school for a while as drifters or "non-traditionals".
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1. Get creative. I like how the usual response is well, you could've been working 9-5 doing TPS reports under some MBA.
2. Having worked in just that environment and making a med school list of suck are not mutually exclusive.
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It's all about perspective. It could be much worse. I don't get why folks who want to quit just quit then. Your job it to study pretty much. Live, breathe, eat, shower medicine. It's pretty much only for... what... 2 years before u take ur boards? Then 3rd year and 4th year are where the actual party begins! #turnupppp
You cannot quit because of the financial issue, here in America it costs thousands of dollars to become a doctor, so once a student enters school, they become liable for a very large sum of money, making it impossible to walk away. In other countries where tuition is subsidized by the government, the financial sacrifice on the part of the student is small, while there is that emotional issue of leaving school and not getting a degree at least that student is not haunted with severe financial debt.
There was some other poster on this board from Europe who was thinking of quitting but that person was from a country where the cost of medical education is much lower than in the US, here its bigger than mortgage for a house.
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Right. Party.
I see you opening a thread like this between the next 6 months and 2-3 years.
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I've managed to maintain a social life and a relationship. It isn't fun, but neither are most things you'd be doing for a living as an alternative. Also, most residencies won't have you pushing 80 hours a week throughout, that's kind of overblown. Finally, what shifts are you putting 30 straight hours into as a medical student? That's absurd.
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Surgery
Does this happen often?
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Our surgery rotations aren't nearly that brutal. Interesting.
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"Guys, I didn't really look into it but I thought that studying for hours on end with exams and commitments looming over my head was supposed to be fun (like I'm entitled to, of course). I never talked to any medical students or deduced how hard it would be from the application process and now I'm thinking that I might actually have to do an honest day's work. Can somebody please validate my assertion that I'm really the victim here?"
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Medical school was a lot harder than I expected. Also, what you think a doctor does and what they actually do are totally different. I used to think that doctors spend all day talking to patients but actually they spend a good portion in the OR or putting things into the record
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The much better alternative to medicine exists in living an average blue collar. That's only possible for those who naturally lack ambition and have average intelligent (genetically). In my opinion those are the happiest people and my day to day experience very clearly shows that to be true.
People who are naturally ambitious won't be satisfied with working an average trade for 60k/year.
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There have been lots of studies on relative happiness levels (tough to quantify such a subjective variable, but there you go). People with children consistently report lower levels of happiness compared to age-matched couples without children. However, people keep having kids. Why is that? Beyond the fact that we're genetically programmed to reproduce, there are motivations that go beyond the purely hedonistic. Having kids is tough: you don't sleep, you don't go out, you don't do the things that you used to find "fun" (sound familiar?). But the reward is pretty great (if you like that sort of thing). What we're doing now might not be as fun as barrel of monkeys, but constructing a life in which we get the privilege to care for our communities more than makes up for the sacrifice.
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HAHAHAHA
Medical school and partying??!! When you see your reading lists and course syllabi as well as schedules just wait. Medical school is not like undergrad at all.
Sorry to sound like I am giving bad news but the party phase of life ended at your graduation from college.
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Uhhhh not true. Me and my classmates still party a lot and we manage to do fine in med school. I'd say if you don't have any time for fun or relaxation during med school, you're doing it wrong.
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The first 2 years are going to continue to suck for the reasons you mentioned. 3rd year is better depending on the rotation. The "do what you are told and don't think" attitude students seemed to have done the best the first 2 years as that attitude seems to memorize well, and I think they continue to advance in the ranks throughout medicine and residency though I may be wrong. From what I've seen 3rd year doctors are generally 1/2-2/3 BS paperwork and the rest is what most people consider doctors to be. I still think its ultimately a better life path than most jobs and I don't meet too many 40 year olds that like their career more than doctors do. I do have friends that are millionaires in their 30s from tech or finance and you're not to late to rule out a career change at 22, though I think for most people it is a mistake. If there is 0 chance you will drop out my advice is just try and be happy, don't think too much and memorize a lot, I've heard it pays off.
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I did not drop out either, but stuck it out, did residency/extra training and it kept getting worse and worse.
The problem with medical school is that most of the educators, especially the first two years have no clue about the real world any more. I know lots of doctors who work teaching at a university and then work 1-2 days as "medical director" some place. While they may be as capable as Google to explain the Krebs cycle, they are clueless about life as a doctor in 2016. This makes dropping out very unlikely for most since they never hear realities and the "shame" in itself of quitting can be akin to a NAVY SEAL quitting.
Yes, the ROI is abysmal and the political will indicates the will only get worse. There will be lots of evolution in Heath care over the next decade, but it looks like most physicians will be government employees by that time, which won't exactly boost the ROI.
Finally, just like you should not let OTHERS talk you into quitting, deciding to do so should be entireLy your choice. The job security
Isn't this a bit condescending and demeaning of other groups? I, for sure, have known plenty burned-out in their 30,s; sticking to the ABC and not having ambitions, but simply feeling entitled to be paid well.
What is an "average blue collar worker" anyways? Otherwise, if you took a blue collar job at 18 and worked with intensity and drive your first ten years, you would be making more than any resident friend your age. When they finish residency, they MAY start making money.
The tort tax; crazy university tuitions; guaranteed massive debt and still another ten years (or more) to start making real money makes medical school a HORRID ROI.
The " average blue collar" worker may have been the smartest, after all.
The social life at my school is nothing like it was in undergrad, we have no fraternity or sorority system which is a bedrock of university social life at most colleges and universities. If you are managing to have fun and pass at your school, congratulations, but for many students life as a medical student is different from an undergraduate. You might be able to have some fun during your first two years, but during the third and fourth years you usually go off on your separate ways, its particularly the case at Osteopathic medical schools, so your medical school social circle gets much smaller.
I had a lot of fun during undergrad but buckled down during medical school, most of my classmates did the same, we had some fun on occasion but it was not undergrad. I am done in two months and then its the real world 🙁.
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Does it get easier after step1?
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The ROI is much lower because of downward pay combined with lower and lower prestige.
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Things get different after step 1. Just expel the thought that things will get easier as you get through it. Learn to embrace the challenge because this is not an easy training path. Just keeping it real.
The return on investment in medical education is dropping because incomes are stagnant or will fall in certain specialties combined with the ever increasing costs of education. You need to complete at minimum four years of college education before you even start medical school, then four years of medical school, the costs of going to school keep increasing. Incomes for physicians in nominal terms are not increasing and real terms they are falling.
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It used to be customary to PAY your physician some extra on the side in the good old commie countries the establishment wants to emulate. Then you have Canada,,where you cannot pay for your own healthcare and people had to sue to even get to do it. Then you have all the people who want to emulate Scandinavia (especially the highs and mighty docs) but doesn't know that paying 60% tax and then 25 % sales tax, not to mention your pay being lousy to begin with is why their healthcare sucks as well.
It's all "free" of course. LOLLOLLOL
It's all "free" of course. LOLLOLLOL
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But..but... doctors should be willing to work 100 hours a week for free. 🙄
What's amazing is how much the prestige and status of professions have fallen. How impressive is it to be a doctor now compared to 25 years ago? Not even remotely close....
