not even doctors can get out of jury duty

[Lukkie]

[there goes my #1 reason going pre-med] just kidding. one of those little annoyances you still gotta live with 😡

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[JamesBond15]

for the most part lawyers dont want doctors and PhDs on their juries. They start to analyze stuff more. One of my prof has always been excused once they find out he is a PhD.

 

[tncekm]

Yep. Trial lawyers, in their unparalleled honesty and integrity, love a jury that is "malleable".

 

[ZagDoc]

Yup, I didn't even get selected as a medical student. The prosecution really seemed skeptical of me in my individual questions.

FYI when you're in clinical rotations and/or in residency, you can get a letter from the dean's office/residency director exempting you.

 

[LossForWords]

Ah, so what? It sucks and all that, but just about everyone's in the same boat. It's just one of those things.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Does nobody enjoy the idea of listening to a case and helping decide the verdict?! Sounds interesting/fun, but maybe that's just because I've never actually done it...

I was always irritated when I got a jury duty letter but was away at college.

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

Why would doctors get out of jury duty? Other than sole practitioners, I'd think that others could cover for the doctor out of the office.

The type of trial that would frighten me would be the one that lasted months.. those are very unusual.

I've heard from attorney friends that in general the attorneys will, during the jury selection process, typically reject candidates who have advanced degrees/education, possibly as the med student poster above said, because someone with post-college training may have more fixed opinions and may be less likely to be pursuaded by smooth-talking lawyers?

I'd tried to get out of jury duty when managing a small office due to the workload and inability of my staff to cover my position for very long (and if our sales were down 10% for the month, I couldn't cover rent + salaries) No dice. But I was not selected in any event after going to court for the morning.

 

[chad5871]

Does nobody enjoy the idea of listening to a case and helping decide the verdict?! Sounds interesting/fun, but maybe that's just because I've never actually done it...

I was always irritated when I got a jury duty letter but was away at college.

If you ever sit through a trial you will understand why it's not fun/interesting.

It's nothing like "Law & Order" and shows of the same ilk.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

If you ever sit through a trial you will understand why it's not fun/interesting.

It's nothing like "Law & Order" and shows of the same ilk.

LOL I wasn't that starry-eyed about the prospect, but I gotcha.

I still wouldn't mind seeing it once in my life. Sounds especially fun to see just how malleable (read: ignorant) a group the lawyer managed to piece together!

 

[linguini]

Wait...so you're actually telling me that doctors are on the same level as all other citizens? 🙄

 

[Law2Doc]

Why would doctors get out of jury duty? Other than sole practitioners, I'd think that others could cover for the doctor out of the office.

When you work in a busy practice where everyone has a full schedule (the norm in medicine today), there is no ability to "cover" someone else's patients. You end up having to cancel appointments, so the patients suffer. Not that this is any more inconvenient than anyone else who has to serve, but considering that in most cases as a physician you are going to show up but be stricken off of most juries, then it sort of seems like a waste.

Doctors aren't stricken to make the jury "maleable" (ie ignorant) per se. But certain segments of society are perceived as having certain biases, and so a high income professional probably is not going to be compassionate to a poor drug dealing street thug, is probably not going to side with the poor injured plaintiff against corporate America when he seeks his millions in damages, etc. so there is usually one party in the courtroom for whom doctors, lawyers, bankers are simply not going to be a welcome member of a jury of the party's "peers".

 

[Chocolate Bear]

When you work in a busy practice where everyone has a full schedule (the norm in medicine today), there is no ability to "cover" someone else's patients. You end up having to cancel appointments, so the patients suffer. Not that this is any more inconvenient than anyone else who has to serve, but considering that in most cases as a physician you are going to show up but be stricken off of most juries, then it sort of seems like a waste.

Doctors aren't stricken to make the jury "maleable" (ie ignorant) per se. But certain segments of society are perceived as having certain biases, and so a high income professional probably is not going to be compassionate to a poor drug dealing street thug, is probably not going to side with the poor injured plaintiff against corporate America when he seeks his millions in damages, etc. so there is usually one party in the courtroom for whom doctors, lawyers, bankers are simply not going to be a welcome member of a jury of the party's "peers".

Forgive my ignorance, but would the opposite also be true (i.e. if a white-collar was the plaintiff, would the docs/lawyers/bankers be highly sought after as peers)?

 

[LizzyM]

Keep in mind that "getting out of jury duty" and not being selected to serve on a jury are two different things. Getting out of jury duty means you never set foot in the court house. What it takes to be automatically excused from jury duty varies by jurisdiction. If you are sent to a courtroom to be interviewed by the lawyers and judge, you could be dismissed and sent back to the pool from which another jury will be selected. At some point, the boredom will get to you and you'll be begging to be assigned to a case.

How many days you must report to jury duty varies by jurisdiction as well and in some places the obligation is very brief (one day or one trial).

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

Would be curious about stats on this.. (#times called to jury duty, # times actually serving as a juror) in my mid (or is it late?) 30's, I've been called to jury duty a handful of times, seemed pretty frequently in Chicago including to one scary part of the west side..was truly worried that my average looking, newer vehicle would not be there in one piece when I returned.

FYI when I'd been called to jury duty but was in school I was given an exemption/exception from serving, presumably this is for all states & would include all med students? I'm guessing L2D would know, but I'd heard attorneys are not called to serve as jurors. So I try to always mention the five attorneys in my immediate family.

 

[JamesBond15]

Would be curious about stats on this.. (#times called to jury duty, # times actually serving as a juror) in my mid (or is it late?) 30's, I've been called to jury duty a handful of times, seemed pretty frequently in Chicago including to one scary part of the west side..was truly worried that my average looking, newer vehicle would not be there in one piece when I returned.

FYI when I'd been called to jury duty but was in school I was given an exemption/exception from serving, presumably this is for all states & would include all med students? I'm guessing L2D would know, but I'd heard attorneys are not called to serve as jurors. So I try to always mention the five attorneys in my immediate family.

Yeah, I think attorneys don't really served on juries either. Doubt they will fall for the tricks.

 

[LizzyM]

Yeah, I think attorneys don't really served on juries either. Doubt they will fall for the tricks.

The last time I sat on a jury, there was a lawyer on the jury with me!

So much for that theory.

 

[tncekm]

Forgive my ignorance, but would the opposite also be true (i.e. if a white-collar was the plaintiff, would the docs/lawyers/bankers be highly sought after as peers)?

Doubt it, personally, but of course I'm not a law professional either 😛

However, I find it objectionable think that a "jury of peers" (which I interpret as fellow local citizens) can be somehow warped into "jury of sympathetics". It would seem most reasonable, in my estimation, to have a diverse jury which could bring a variety of perspectives to the jury discussions. But, for something reasonable like that to occur I would imagine that the legal environment would have to be altered considerably. I.e. a prosecutor isn't considered "good" by the number of convictions he makes and a defender isn't considered "good" by the number of acquittals he makes.

 

[Lukkie]

Wait...so you're actually telling me that doctors are on the same level as all other citizens? 🙄

this is sort of addressed in the next post, which i'll quote here:

When you work in a busy practice where everyone has a full schedule (the norm in medicine today), there is no ability to "cover" someone else's patients. You end up having to cancel appointments, so the patients suffer. Not that this is any more inconvenient than anyone else who has to serve, but considering that in most cases as a physician you are going to show up but be stricken off of most juries, then it sort of seems like a waste.

most of us being/wanting to be in medicine probably side with this view. an ER doc, anaesthesiologist or neurosurgeon who might be needed at any moment at a big hospital for something crucial should be exempt, whereas someone like a dermatologist working in a beverly hills beauty firm or a lasik doctor might be in the mix for jury duty.

i mean the bottom line for jury duty is you're helping people/society and most doctors could probably help society better by continuing their work rather than serving on a jury.

 

[EMmedic]

The last time I went for jury duty they made a point to say that the rumor of certain professions not being on juries is false. They said that doctors, firefighters, lawyers, etc all serve on juries so don't try to use that as an excuse. Initially the jury is picked randomly and then both sides of lawyers can replace a certain amount of jurors. To an extent they look at who you are and what you do but not because your work is somehow more essential than others in the group. They look for people who have lives that might lead them to be biased or more/less open-minded about the SPECIFIC case. Sometimes lawyers replace jurors based on specific characteristics and sometimes it is much more random. My father is a criminal defense attorney - he said sometimes he literally just looks at people's shoes and uses that to decide whether they might be closed-minded or not...sometimes its just that random.

 

[JamesBond15]

The last time I went for jury duty they made a point to say that the rumor of certain professions not being on juries is false. They said that doctors, firefighters, lawyers, etc all serve on juries so don't try to use that as an excuse. Initially the jury is picked randomly and then both sides of lawyers can replace a certain amount of jurors. To an extent they look at who you are and what you do but not because your work is somehow more essential than others in the group. They look for people who have lives that might lead them to be biased or more/less open-minded about the SPECIFIC case. Sometimes lawyers replace jurors based on specific characteristics and sometimes it is much more random. My father is a criminal defense attorney - he said sometimes he literally just looks at people's shoes and uses that to decide whether they might be closed-minded or not...sometimes its just that random.

I found it funny that on people take every word so literally. Of course there are doctors, lawyers and firemen who serve on juries. But it is just much less likely that they get picked. (IMO).

 

[JamesBond15]

this is sort of addressed in the next post, which i'll quote here:



most of us being/wanting to be in medicine probably side with this view. an ER doc, anaesthesiologist or neurosurgeon who might be needed at any moment at a big hospital for something crucial should be exempt, whereas someone like a dermatologist working in a beverly hills beauty firm or a lasik doctor might be in the mix for jury duty.

i mean the bottom line for jury duty is you're helping people/society and most doctors could probably help society better by continuing their work rather than serving on a jury.

I dont know how it is where you are, but here ER docs make a schedule. They don't get called back, once they leave their shift, they leave. Unless I guess the world comes crashing down I guess.

The biggest point is that if a doctor has to close the office, all the patients for that day (could be 10, could be 30) have to be rescheduled. It impacts way more people than just the doc. And BHills derm docs are just as important, they actually have pretty high patient loads.

 

[alwaysaangel]

My county does 1 trial or 1 day.

After not showing up a couple of times because I was 400 miles away in college and apparently that wasn't an excuse. I went this past time.

I sat in a room from 8am-3:30pm where I read and played on the internet. Then I left.

90% of the people who get called for jury duty are bored stiff because they don't even get called. I don't care if "my very presence encourages cases to settle and avoid a jury trial." And I still think its bull to waste so many peoples time. But it happens, and its not the end of the world. But most of the people I know are more annoyed with the waste of time then the concept of being on a jury. If I were actually on a jury I would feel useful. Messing up my day for nothing is annoying.

 

[amlo86]

I've been sent letters for jury duty once a year since I started college and every year I've been sent a letter a few days before I have to appear stating that the case was settled or my presence was no longer needed. This happen to anyone else?

 

[JamesBond15]

I've been sent letters for jury duty once a year since I started college and every year I've been sent a letter a few days before I have to appear stating that the case was settled or my presence was no longer needed. This happen to anyone else?

Must be a Texas thing. 🙂

 

[HumidBeing]

I was called for jury duty right after I turned 18. I went and was released within half an hour because they had enough jurors before they got to me.

Still got a cute little check in the mail for my service and mileage. Considering that the few miles there and back was a nice walk, it was some of the best pay I've made for time spent.

 

[Lukkie]

here in los angeles its like this. you get summoned and on the day you go to the court and are placed in a couple rooms with like 1000 people total. then they start calling groups of 12 or so people to interview. theres maybe 20 of these groups. this happens from like 8AM to maybe 12PM. if you are not part of these groups you are done with your commitment for the year. if you are a part of the group and after your interview they don't want you, you are done with your commitment for the year. if they do want you, i think you are committed for the duration of the case, up to a certain amount (like 2 weeks?)

 

[Law2Doc]

I found it funny that on people take every word so literally. Of course there are doctors, lawyers and firemen who serve on juries. But it is just much less likely that they get picked. (IMO).

It's a state by state thing. There are definitely states in which lawyers may not serve on juries and are exempt. Don't think that the rules of one jurisdiction are the same as others. I have lived in states where I was not eligible for jury duty. The problem with having lawyers on a panel is that naturally when there is a question of law, the other jurors will turn to the lawyer on the jury for legal input (which is really something that ought to come from the judge) and s/he ends up having too much influence on the case. That being said, in some states I have served on juries as a lawyer. Most of the time I got stricken, as do doctors, bankers, priests, policemen. (Rarely would a fireman get stricken, unless the case involved arson). But on a couple of cases I got to sit on the case. It's a great experience if you work in a situation where others can cover. But that simply isn't the case for a good many physicians.

In NY city a while back, Rudy Giuliani, who was then the sitting mayor as well as a former government attorney, was impaneled on a jury (for a landlord tenant dispute), so that goes to show you that some jurisdictions don't exempt anybody.

 

[Law2Doc]

Forgive my ignorance, but would the opposite also be true (i.e. if a white-collar was the plaintiff, would the docs/lawyers/bankers be highly sought after as peers)?

Sure, but it's a percentage thing. Common things being common, the garden variety felonies (larceny, robbery, assault, homicide) outweigh the white collar crimes 99:1. So if you are a lawyer, doctor, banker, you can expect to get stricken from most juries.

 

[Law2Doc]

Doubt it, personally, but of course I'm not a law professional either 😛

However, I find it objectionable think that a "jury of peers" (which I interpret as fellow local citizens) can be somehow warped into "jury of sympathetics". It would seem most reasonable, in my estimation, to have a diverse jury which could bring a variety of perspectives to the jury discussions. But, for something reasonable like that to occur I would imagine that the legal environment would have to be altered considerably. I.e. a prosecutor isn't considered "good" by the number of convictions he makes and a defender isn't considered "good" by the number of acquittals he makes.

The way it works is that the jury pool is selected at random (from drivers license, voter registration lists or phonebook listings). Then a group from this pool is impaneled. Then that group, plus a handful of alternates, is brought into the court for voire dire, during which the lawyers and judge can ask the jury group questions to reveal any biases. Then each side has the right to strike a certain limited number of these jury members (for cause or for any reason other than race) and replace them with the alternates. So you don't really end up with a sympathetic jury, you just get to cut off a few outliers, and so does the other side. As I mentioned above, when you strike professionals, you not only are trying to get a jury who might be able to see eye to eye with your client, but you also want to get rid of folks who might have undue influence over the case, or might circumvent the judge in cases of interpretation of legal standards, etc.

As for your last sentence, you'd better believe prosecutors keep track of their conviction rates and use them as comparison. Most have 95%+ conviction rates, based on the amount of evidence they require to bring a case in the first place. But certainly a public defender wouldn't focus on percentages because they at best are going to have that remaining 5% to brag about.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

If you get called for jury duty you should suck it up and fulfill your obligation as a citizen.😡

If you ever get sued for malpractice do you really want a jury box full of imbeciles deciding your fate? If you were ever accused by some nut case of a patient that you molested him/her do you want to have *****s as jurors ruining your life?

Stop complaining!

 

[closer23]

I found it funny that on people take every word so literally. Of course there are doctors, lawyers and firemen who serve on juries. But it is just much less likely that they get picked. (IMO).

How do you know? Or are you just guessing?

 

[ravens11]

Yes, believe it or not, doctors are not above the law (shocking, I know). Lukkie, you say you hate pre-meds, well I don't hate pre-meds, but I do hate the ones who act like you.

Also, change your avatar. From your md-apps, I can see that you are not a hot attractive white girl, please stop trying to fool early pre-meds into believing there are actually hot female pre-meds out there: it's wrooong!!!!

 

[njbmd]

[there goes my #1 reason going pre-med] just kidding. one of those little annoyances you still gotta live with 😡

Pre-med is likely not going to get you out of serving on a jury but being a physician will get you dismissed quickly. See below.

for the most part lawyers dont want doctors and PhDs on their juries. They start to analyze stuff more. One of my prof has always been excused once they find out he is a PhD.

This is definitely true. I had to report but I was dismissed very quickly. Likely won't get called again for a long time.