Not paying for ER visit

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I hadn't had a chance to check back on this since I posted in here last. In my situation I have insurance, I have a pretty decent paying job. I don't have a a car because I can't afford the expense. By the time I'm done paying rent, electricity, cable/internet (the only entertainment I have because I never go out anywhere) and paying off a debt consolidation/credit counseling arrangement I have no extra funds left for any extra bills. If I ever have to go to the ER or have surgery I'm going to freak out about the cost to me out of pocket because I don't have the money for an extra bill like that. As it is right now my bf is in collections over medical bills he doesn't have the money to pay. A hospital visit or some surgery with insurance shouldn't be something that can cause you to be homeless in a year because they are viciously garnishing your wages and you can no longer afford rent/electricity/food/other bills etc.
 
lilsheba said:
I hadn't had a chance to check back on this since I posted in here last. In my situation I have insurance, I have a pretty decent paying job. I don't have a a car because I can't afford the expense. By the time I'm done paying rent, electricity, cable/internet (the only entertainment I have because I never go out anywhere) and paying off a debt consolidation/credit counseling arrangement I have no extra funds left for any extra bills. If I ever have to go to the ER or have surgery I'm going to freak out about the cost to me out of pocket because I don't have the money for an extra bill like that. As it is right now my bf is in collections over medical bills he doesn't have the money to pay. A hospital visit or some surgery with insurance shouldn't be something that can cause you to be homeless in a year because they are viciously garnishing your wages and you can no longer afford rent/electricity/food/other bills etc.
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Uhh for arguments sake why not share how much you make. If your insurance sucks buy better insurance. I find it hard to believe this is the case if you make over 20k per yr and as you mention dont do anything for entertainment outside of tv.

Lets go crazy here. Rent $600, electricity $200, Food $500, Bus pass $50

Thats $1350 a month

If you make 20k you pay no federal tax. Also with minimum wage being $7.25 I would hope you might make a little more.
 
Actually by the time taxes/flexplan/med insurance for me and my kids/transportation costs for a bus pass/etc I get about 1200 bucks every two weeks. One check goes to rent which is almost 1000 bucks, and groceries which can run from 100 to 200 depending on what's needed. That's one check gone. The next check is used for bills ...electric runs about 150 or so depending, cell is 250 (family plan) cable/internet/phone is about 200, debt consolidation 128, food another 200, plus by then I'm helping to pay for gas and whatnot. We eat out once a week for about 25 bucks...the rest of the time I"m home utilizing the cable/internet I pay for. I don't have room for a 1000 dollar plus bill it would be devastating.

And my bf is in the same boat...he's got gas and insurance to pay on his vehicle plus the hospital bills he's trying to pay off plus he gets groceries every other week.

so yeah it would be and is already a hardship.
 
Seems that you could do without the cable/phone/internet at $200 and the family plan cell phone at $250. Cable TV is a luxury, not a necessity, and you could get two basic cell-phones without a data plan for $40 each.
 
GeneralVeers said:
Seems that you could do without the cable/phone/internet at $200 and the family plan cell phone at $250. Cable TV is a luxury, not a necessity, and you could get two basic cell-phones without a data plan for $40 each.
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$450 for internet, cable, and phone!!!!

We do not have cable, my internet service is about 50 bucks a month... it serves a business use and is a tax deduction. I have an old flip phone without data service. I am cheating in that it costs my parents 9.99 a month to be on their service instead of having my own. Its the only thing they pay of mine... and its just 10 bucks. My wifes phone is about 80 per month and she has an older smart phone.

We have a netflix account which is like 7 or 8 bucks.

I've taken care of homeless people with nicer cell phones than me and I have been the blunt of many jokes over my phone. I've had it near 6 years, it works great, and lasts for days without a recharge...

In just my short life of 31 years, I have seen many changes where 'luxuries' have become assumed 'necessities'... This is the root of the problem with America.
 
to lilsheba.

$250 / month for cell phones is insanity. You might want to look into that since you should be able to shave off $100 per month.

Also who needs a home phone these days especially when you are already dropping $250 for cell phone service.

Would $1000 be a pain in my financial rear sure it would. When my wife and I had a healthy baby girl last yr I paid almost 6k out of pocket cause my insurance sucks. Did that suck. Sure it did and that didnt include diapers, food, wipes and clothes.

We found our way to a little more money by working more which I realize isnt an option for many.
 
lilsheba said:
New person here, not a medical professional in any way, I am just reading stuff 🙂

However I disagree with a hospital bill going to collections is not hounded to death. I have insurance but haven't always had the money to pay the 150.00 copay, and had a couple of bills from that in the past for my daughter. Plus some random left over charges from procedures I had done. The collection agency came after me so fast it made my head spin and garnished me.

I don't understand why it's so vicious when they get 80 percent or more of the money from the insurance already.
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there are health plans that actually pay way less than 80% of a persons medical bills. i am a medical biller. in this field we see medicare, medicaid, workers' comp, no fault, veterians insurances, and other 3rd party liability (slip and fall @ walmart type liabilities) pay next to nothing on a persons medical bills.

for example most insurances have a contracted rate they pay for an ER visit. for an er visit that we would get $750 from a commercial insurance like Aetna. even if the total bill adds up to $60,000. for no fault or workers' comp we would only get paid $129 with no patient liability (co-pay, deductible or co- insurance). by law we are not allowed to bill the patient for the balance that was between what we charged the insurance and what the insurance actually paid. so we loose a lot of money as income due to the very little we get paid from the governmental insurance companies.
 
If we are speaking about the ED, then I believe medical screening is appropriate.
If you do not have what could be a medical emergency- then pay up front for your chronic back pain, vaginal bleeding for 1 month, headache for 1 year ( allergic to nsaids, ultram, zofran, reglan), urine preg test, work excuse, vomiting from hangover, your 2 episodes of diarrhea today, "picture of your baby"(ie ultrasound), your nose bleed today that stopped before EMS even came to your rescue, (yet you still come to ER and complain about wait time).
Do not go to urgent care bc they will actually bill you up front.
Just come on down to the ED.
Please don't worry about emtala and such...I promise if you come in with chest pain, RLQ abd pain, HA VOMITING NECK STIFFNESS, testicle pain- you will get a full workup (whether you are 22yo or 92 yo). I will not risk my hard earned medical license...
If you come in for your tooth pain that you have been seen for in my ed 5 times this month...you can get narcotics if you yell, scream, demand to talk with the nursing manager ( god forbid we get a pt complaint).
Better yet bring your roommate (with a migraine,) your child ( with a cough,) along with your fibromyalgia pain... one of you is bound to score some percocet or at the very least lortab elixir for your child. You may have to wait... but unlike going to urgent care, or god forbid your PCP (primary doc, not the drug), the ER is free. You don't even need ID to get drugs ( just a ride home). Drive on past the liquor store (they actually demand ID and payment) and come on over!!! We aim to please.. Press Gainey welcomes you.
 
Thread adequately raised from the dead... Holy cow... I was really on a soapbox there. 🙂
 
EM_Rebuilder said:
$450 for internet, cable, and phone!!!!

We do not have cable, my internet service is about 50 bucks a month... it serves a business use and is a tax deduction. I have an old flip phone without data service. I am cheating in that it costs my parents 9.99 a month to be on their service instead of having my own. Its the only thing they pay of mine... and its just 10 bucks. My wifes phone is about 80 per month and she has an older smart phone.

We have a netflix account which is like 7 or 8 bucks.

I've taken care of homeless people with nicer cell phones than me and I have been the blunt of many jokes over my phone. I've had it near 6 years, it works great, and lasts for days without a recharge...

In just my short life of 31 years, I have seen many changes where 'luxuries' have become assumed 'necessities'... This is the root of the problem with America.
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Word.

I'm 31 too.
 
This is legit thread necromancy.

Monthly expenses need to be listed and justified. Again. And again. Ad infintium. Its the only way we keep ourselves, and our providers... honest.
 
Apollyon said:
I don't think you can search for a post that is only "."







(Joking! Man!)
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That reminds me. It's time to go on a post-deleting rampage and replace them all with " . " again. Nothing is quite as succinct and to the point as a "."

Any posts not yet quoted, will be soon be mass deleted.
 
Birdstrike said:
That reminds me. It's time to go on a post-deleting rampage and replace them all with " . " again. Nothing is quite as succinct and to the point as a "."

Any posts not yet quoted, will be soon be mass deleted.
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Saved one! lol.
 
Wow! How'd I miss this thread. I sympathize with the guy paying $24K for his recent stone admission. He's right. It's not fair. That's why I buy health insurance. I KNOW it isn't fair. If it were, I'd consider doing a lot more self-insuring.

With health insurance, you not only get the cost-sharing assistance, but you also get the negotiating help. The health insurer is negotiating for thousands, so gets lower prices. Yeahoo Bob with the kidney stone only gets to negotiate for himself, and after the care has already been given. Not exactly a strong negotiating stance.

The solution is transparency of prices. He says $5K is fair and $14K isn't and $24K isn't. The truth of the matter is it probably costs the hospital $10K. If they only charged $5K, they'd be losing money. Now, there's still lots of room between $10K and $24K I'll admit, but keep in mind that medical care is never going to be cheap. It's just an expensive thing to do.
 
ActiveDutyMD said:
My dentist offers a cash discount. It's 10%. We (both the docs and the hospital) offer way more than that for any bills paid within a month, I think we offer 25%. Our insurers have negotiated rates with us that are 10-70% off. Medicare pays us about 80% off what we bill, and medicaid about 90% off. Those obviously aren't negotiated.

I agree it isn't fair that the cash buyers get shafted. I wish everyone paid the same, fair rate. I'm not sure that can be legislated though. If all our customers paid us 30-40% of our billed rate, I think we'd do just fine.

But the real problem our customers have isn't our (the doctor's) bill, it's the hospital bill. It's often 3-4 times as high as the doctor bill, especially on a visit requiring labs, EKGs, and CT scans.
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You didn't miss it... you were a part of it long ago 😀
 
Fiveoboy11 said:
I went to the ER about 6 months ago, twice, for what ended up being a kidney stone. Required minor surgery and an overnight stay. Guess how much it cost me? Close to 30,000 dollars. Don't have insurance.

Let me ask this, is it fair that I have to pay that amount of money for a kidney stone? Give me a break. About 3 months ago I had to max out 4 credit cards to avoid having it go to collections and ruin my credit.
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You didn't pay 30,000 for your kidney stones. You paid 30,000 for your kidney stone, the illegal alien who gave a fake name and came in at 3am with gall bladder trouble and needed a government mandated translation line because he doesn't speak English, the dialysis patient on disability and medicare at age 40 who skipped his Monday dialysis appointment because he slept in, and the frequent flier on her 6th ER visit this month because she wanted more narcotics on the weekend. You're also paying for the 2 million jury award against the doctor who had an unforeseeable adverse outcome despite doing everything right half of which goes into an attorney's pocket. Is it fair? No. But it is what it is.
 
My sister took a tumble and hit her head in Buenos Aires a few years ago. We went to a private hospital, 1.5 hrs of obs, an MD neuro exam without talk of a bill but then she started vomiting and getting pretty dizzy. Head CT was recommended, and I was told if we wanted it I had to go to the cashier in front and swipe my credit card for $841 USD. It was quite a shock for me at the time, but looking back on it, it doesn't seem particularly unfair. Good thing I was able to afford it- I'm sure I would have a different opinion if care was denied and there was a bad outcome- but my main point is that there absolutely has to be some change in our system. Single payer system most likely, as well as a bit more transparency in costs and healthcare consumer participation.
 
The lesson is that goods and services cost money. Medicine involves the exchange of goods and services. People need to pay for goods and services. Whenever you involve a third party like insurance company, employer or government who is not particularly interested in the actual outcome, you get a distorted market with spiraling costs, and rationing.
 
GeneralVeers said:
The lesson is that goods and services cost money. Medicine involves the exchange of goods and services. People need to pay for goods and services. Whenever you involve a third party like insurance company, employer or government who is not particularly interested in the actual outcome, you get a distorted market with spiraling costs, and rationing.
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Wrong thread, moved
 
docB said:
We've covered this one before. You're not just paying for the supplies. You're also paying for the right to sue if there are ever any problems that you claim were due to those supplies. You are also paying the facility charge to have the nursing assessment, bed, linens, etc. and, of course, the right to sue for any of those things as well. And you are paying for the cost of maintaining an ER to respond to critical emergencies which you didn't have but might have since we are required to suspect one in every patient who walks in. Finally you are paying for your supplies and everything else for you and the guy in the next bed who won't pay anything but who we are required to treat by federal law.
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Your logic here is egregiously wrong. Sorry, but if it's a "right" then you shouldn't have to pay for it. Not one red cent. In our wonderful American republic, a right is a just claim, a guarantee if you will. People should be able to sue simply because they can breathe.

The amount of right-wing stupidity and the trashing of poor bashing in this thread is sickening. I'm sincerely bothered that I'm sharing the same profession with such sociopaths.
 
GeneralVeers said:
The lesson is that goods and services cost money. Medicine involves the exchange of goods and services. People need to pay for goods and services. Whenever you involve a third party like insurance company, employer or government who is not particularly interested in the actual outcome, you get a distorted market with spiraling costs, and rationing.
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You just equated medicine to purchasing a Whirlpool from Sears. Nice.
 
brewdog11 said:
Your logic here is egregiously wrong. Sorry, but if it's a "right" then you shouldn't have to pay for it. Not one red cent. In our wonderful American republic, a right is a just claim, a guarantee if you will. People should be able to sue simply because they can breathe.

The amount of right-wing stupidity and the trashing of poor bashing in this thread is sickening. I'm sincerely bothered that I'm sharing the same profession with such sociopaths.
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You just dug up a thread that's been dead a year and change to be offended?

Fortunately, you don't share a profession with these "sociopaths," as we're not pre-meds and you're not a doctor. Feel free to cancel your medical school applications.
 
brewdog11 said:
Your logic here is egregiously wrong. Sorry, but if it's a "right" then you shouldn't have to pay for it. Not one red cent. In our wonderful American republic, a right is a just claim, a guarantee if you will. People should be able to sue simply because they can breathe.

The amount of right-wing stupidity and the trashing of poor bashing in this thread is sickening. I'm sincerely bothered that I'm sharing the same profession with such sociopaths.
Click to expand...
"Rights" that involve the expenditure of others people's time or money have to be paid for somehow. If there was no cost for "rights", CA would have a much lower tax rate. It's not wrong to that there are things that society has collectively determined are worth paying for even if the individual citizen receiving the service can't. But it is willfully ignorant to believe that rights are free just because society doesn't hold the individual accountable for payment.
 
brewdog11 said:
Your logic here is egregiously wrong. Sorry, but if it's a "right" then you shouldn't have to pay for it. Not one red cent. In our wonderful American republic, a right is a just claim, a guarantee if you will. People should be able to sue simply because they can breathe.

The amount of right-wing stupidity and the trashing of poor bashing in this thread is sickening. I'm sincerely bothered that I'm sharing the same profession with such sociopaths.
Click to expand...

Lmao
 
brewdog11 said:
Your logic here is egregiously wrong. Sorry, but if it's a "right" then you shouldn't have to pay for it. Not one red cent. In our wonderful American republic, a right is a just claim, a guarantee if you will. People should be able to sue simply because they can breathe.

The amount of right-wing stupidity and the trashing of poor bashing in this thread is sickening. I'm sincerely bothered that I'm sharing the same profession with such sociopaths.
Click to expand...
That feels real good to say, until someone else's "right" happens to be your paycheck. Feel free to work for free, without getting paid. We'll see how that works out for you, and how long your idealism lasts under that arrangement.

We all need water to live. It's very easy for an owner of a water company to say, "Access to water is a right!" Then when people show up demanding it for free, saying they need it to live, one will find out very fast how much he really means it.

Similarly, we'd all die without food (much quicker than without Pap smears and colonoscopies) and it's very easy for the grocery store owner to say, "Food is a right! Rah rah rah! Vote for the right to food for all!" Then when hungry droves show up demanding the food they supposedly have the right to demand, one finds out quickly how much he believes in his own slogan.

Similarly with healthcare, it's easy to recite the campaign get-out-the-vote slogans. Of course, that's until you've actually treated thousands upon thousands of people who've been unable to pay, doing so at 3 am, on weekends, on holidays away from your family, and given out tens of thousands of dollars in charity care as I have, and as many physicians on this discussion board have, it's real easy to say.

And don't think I, or any of us got paid for those services because you read somewhere doctors get paid by the "hour." It doesn't really work that way. We practice in a fee for service system, and always have. Medicare, Medicaid and other insurance companies don't pay "by the hour." They pay for units of services provides. There is no magic money tree that guarantees fees paid for those services if a patient has no money, no insurance or an insurance company that doesn't provide coverage or adequate coverage for a specific physician service. A patient who doesn't pay their bill or who has no insurance to help pay their bill, offers zero dollars towards the revenue stream from which funds are used to pay physicians salary. $1 not paid for the physician Evaluation and Management fee charged is $1 less paid to the physician or group of physicians, and is $1 less available to pay the physicians come payroll time. Similarly, $1,000 not paid for physician services provided, is $1,000 less paid to that physician and/or his groups payroll fund, and is $1,000 less available to pay off his $200,000 student loan debt, $20,000-$50,000 per year for malpractice coverage, house payment and so on.

Argue all you want that we should make taxpayer dollars available to pay for health, because that's an argument worth having. But arguing it's a "right" of one person to have a right to another's goods and services doesn't hold water in the real world. What is one thing that rights of free speech, "liberty," "pursuit of happiness," privacy and other fundamental rights have in common? They're not goods and services of one, owned and demanded by "right," by another. Feel good slogans may get out the vote, but they're little good for anything else, and bear little if any relevance to application in the real world. And finally, I'll actually believe you mean what you say, when you allow others the "right" to your paycheck, for the services you provide.
 
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