NOVA versus LECOM-B

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KarmaIsTruth

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Hello all.

I've been accepted to both. I cannot decide which to attend.

LECOM-B Pros:
-I really like PBL
-High board scores
-Relatively affordable

LECOM-B Cons:
-Boring location (Bradenton, FL)
-Tiny, tiny medical school
-Horrible administration (I've been told)
-Potential problems with rotations (All are volunteer-based. LECOM does not pay hospitals for rotations.)
-Not growing/no buildings being constructed

Nova Pros:
-Prestigious in DO community
-Early clinical exposure with physician preceptorship
-Incredible campus and facilities. Growing quickly with buildings under construction
-Tons of innovative research going on
-Great location (Ft. Lauderdale)
-Powerful South Florida alumni network
-Better rotations!
-Free MPH Program
-Residencies and fellowships through NSUCOM

Nova Cons:
-Lectures (no PBL)
-Lots and lots of exams
-More expensive (~$80,000 extra over 4 years)
-Nova requires three months of rural medicine in the fourth year. (LECOM-B requires one)
-Lower board scores than LECOM-B
-Potentially mandatory attendance

I really love both schools though.

I want to go into internal medicine with a fellowship afterwards (not sure what). Any suggestions on which one to attend? I'm a Florida resident.

MCAT: 32
GPA: 3.3
200 hours volunteered at clinic
Decent letters and PS
Applied in June
Traditional applicant

Thank you!!
 
A friend of mine is a first year LECOM-B and is not too fond of the administration either. I would say Nova if you can afford it, even though the possible mandatory attendance is a negative. Campus/area is nice, solid network of clinical sites, and its a much more established school.
 
KarmaIsTruth said:
Hello all.

I've been accepted to both. I cannot decide which to attend.

LECOM-B Pros:
-I really like PBL
-High board scores
-Relatively affordable

LECOM-B Cons:
-Boring location (Bradenton, FL)
-Tiny, tiny medical school
-Horrible administration (I've been told)
-Potential problems with rotations (All are volunteer-based. LECOM does not pay hospitals for rotations.)
-Not growing/no buildings being constructed

Nova Pros:
-Prestigious in DO community
-Early clinical exposure with physician preceptorship
-Incredible campus and facilities. Growing quickly with buildings under construction
-Tons of innovative research going on
-Great location (Ft. Lauderdale)
-Powerful South Florida alumni network
-Better rotations!
-Free MPH Program
-Residencies and fellowships through NSUCOM

Nova Cons:
-Lectures (no PBL)
-Lots and lots of exams
-More expensive (~$80,000 extra over 4 years)
-Nova requires three months of rural medicine in the fourth year. (LECOM-B requires one)
-Lower board scores than LECOM-B
-Potentially mandatory attendance

I really love both schools though.

I want to go into internal medicine with a fellowship afterwards (not sure what). Any suggestions on which one to attend? I'm a Florida resident.

MCAT: 32
GPA: 3.3
200 hours volunteered at clinic
Decent letters and PS
Applied in June
Traditional applicant

Thank you!!
Click to expand...

LECOM will have exams also
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
LECOM will have exams also
Click to expand...

True, but it'll be more like a handful of important ones, as opposed to an exam every week (no idea if that's the case at Nova, but that sounds like tons of exams).

OP, based solely on your list, you seem to be favoring NSU.

You really have to decide what's most important to you. You also have some things on these lists that don't seem all that important. I'm not sure if I would say a DO school is not growing = con, or that one growing fast = pro. With every addition, DO schools have regularly shown greater rotation instability. They'll have to branch out and send students places where no one has gone before, etc.

Also, I know you mentioned residencies and fellowships through NSU, you know LECOM has those too, right? Most aren't in FL, because like 2/3 of LECOM is in PA, so most are in PA, NY, and OH, but there are programs in LECOMT.

Looking at the AOA opportunities website, CEME has 52 residency programs (8 in IM) and 36 fellowships (21 in IM), & LECOMT has 75 residency programs (15 in IM) and 19 fellowships (9 in IM). I didn't look at the sizes of any of these programs (too much work, you can if you want), so obviously you can't compare straight numbers, but this was more to demonstrate that they both exist. That said, virtually all of the CEME programs are in FL, whereas only handfuls of the LECOMT programs are in FL, with most in PA, and some scattered in NY and OH.

If you want to stay in FL and given how you wrote your lists, I'd probably go to NSU. Regardless, go where you would feel most capable of succeeding, and after you make your decision, don't look back.
 
Rotations are important, but your board scores are more important. Go where you think you'll get the best education. If that's Nova, go there. If you think you'll perform better at LECOM-B go there. Honestly, the beaches in Sarasota are fabulous, and I liked the small-town feel of Bradenton and wouldn't go to Ft. Lauderdale for anything, especially after they decided helping the homeless was illegal...
 
KarmaIsTruth said:
-More expensive (~$80,000 extra over 4 years)
-Nova requires three months of rural medicine in the fourth year. (LECOM-B requires one)
Click to expand...

It's actually $50,000 more expensive after you factor in many of LECOM-B fees.
And perhaps LECOM requires less time in rural medicine because, well, they are in a rural area.
 
KarmaIsTruth said:
Hello all.

I've been accepted to both. I cannot decide which to attend.

LECOM-B Pros:
-I really like PBL
-High board scores
-Relatively affordable

LECOM-B Cons:
-Boring location (Bradenton, FL)
-Tiny, tiny medical school
-Horrible administration (I've been told)
-Potential problems with rotations (All are volunteer-based. LECOM does not pay hospitals for rotations.)
-Not growing/no buildings being constructed
Click to expand...

From my experience of Lecom-B from the interview:
1. PBL is overrated. They make it sound as if it is wonderful but it is honestly an independent study. You teach yourself so the school has to do less work teaching you. Many faculty are older members of the community who may have retired and taken faculty positions at the school. They "facilitate" your PBL sessions. After observing a session, I thought it was pretty dumb.
2. Their high board scores are a result (my skepticism) of their cirriculum. Some schools give you a comprehensive medical cirriculum, but Lecom-B teaches for the exam. Their PBL cases and exam questions are formatted to resemble board exam questions.
3. I do agree with you that it is affordable. Apartments are around $1200 for a new 2 bedroom.
4. I would not say this is a boring location. There is a lot of development in the surrounding areas and the beaches offer plenty of atrractions.
5. The school is 1 building. Then again they have everything in it. Some campuses are only big because they have undergrad, graduate school, or other professional degrees at the school. Here it is only medical and pharmacy.
6. Ya rotations don't seem that great. It is based on your gpa so if you are not in the top of your class youa re stuck with picking the bad rotation sites.
7. Don't forget the mandatory attendence and dress code.
 
allenlchs said:
It's actually $50,000 more expensive after you factor in many of LECOM-B fees.
And perhaps LECOM requires less time in rural medicine because, well, they are in a rural area.
Click to expand...

What makes you think it is $50,000?

With a higher cost of living in Ft. Lauderdale and interest, you are easily looking at an extra $100,000 - conservatively.

For those that go to Nova, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have the military pay for all your stuff and collect a monthly stipend. It's just too expensive.
 
PlaqueBuster said:
From my experience of Lecom-B from the interview:
1. PBL is overrated. They make it sound as if it is wonderful but it is honestly an independent study. You teach yourself so the school has to do less work teaching you. Many faculty are older members of the community who may have retired and taken faculty positions at the school. They "facilitate" your PBL sessions. After observing a session, I thought it was pretty dumb.
2. Their high board scores are a result (my skepticism) of their cirriculum. Some schools give you a comprehensive medical cirriculum, but Lecom-B teaches for the exam. Their PBL cases and exam questions are formatted to resemble board exam questions.
3. I do agree with you that it is affordable. Apartments are around $1200 for a new 2 bedroom.
4. I would not say this is a boring location. There is a lot of development in the surrounding areas and the beaches offer plenty of atrractions.
5. The school is 1 building. Then again they have everything in it. Some campuses are only big because they have undergrad, graduate school, or other professional degrees at the school. Here it is only medical and pharmacy.
6. Ya rotations don't seem that great. It is based on your gpa so if you are not in the top of your class youa re stuck with picking the bad rotation sites.
7. Don't forget the mandatory attendence and dress code.
Click to expand...

I sat in a session, too.

They were trying to desperately read some sort of radiology on a screen. They were scrambling for what seemed almost 10 minutes. The facilitator just kind of sat there drinking a pina colada. Why not just give the answer?
 
Prncssbuttercup said:
Rotations are important, but your board scores are more important. Go where you think you'll get the best education. If that's Nova, go there. If you think you'll perform better at LECOM-B go there. Honestly, the beaches in Sarasota are fabulous, and I liked the small-town feel of Bradenton and wouldn't go to Ft. Lauderdale for anything, especially after they decided helping the homeless was illegal...
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing.
 
hallowmann said:
True, but it'll be more like a handful of important ones, as opposed to an exam every week (no idea if that's the case at Nova, but that sounds like tons of exams).

OP, based solely on your list, you seem to be favoring NSU.

You really have to decide what's most important to you. You also have some things on these lists that don't seem all that important. I'm not sure if I would say a DO school is not growing = con, or that one growing fast = pro. With every addition, DO schools have regularly shown greater rotation instability. They'll have to branch out and send students places where no one has gone before, etc.

Also, I know you mentioned residencies and fellowships through NSU, you know LECOM has those too, right? Most aren't in FL, because like 2/3 of LECOM is in PA, so most are in PA, NY, and OH, but there are programs in LECOMT.

Looking at the AOA opportunities website, CEME has 52 residency programs (8 in IM) and 36 fellowships (21 in IM), & LECOMT has 75 residency programs (15 in IM) and 19 fellowships (9 in IM). I didn't look at the sizes of any of these programs (too much work, you can if you want), so obviously you can't compare straight numbers, but this was more to demonstrate that they both exist. That said, virtually all of the CEME programs are in FL, whereas only handfuls of the LECOMT programs are in FL, with most in PA, and some scattered in NY and OH.

If you want to stay in FL and given how you wrote your lists, I'd probably go to NSU. Regardless, go where you would feel most capable of succeeding, and after you make your decision, don't look back.
Click to expand...

This is good advice. Thank you.
 
KarmaIsTruth said:
What makes you think it is $50,000?

With a higher cost of living in Ft. Lauderdale and interest, you are easily looking at an extra $100,000 - conservatively.

For those that go to Nova, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have the military pay for all your stuff and collect a monthly stipend. It's just too expensive.
Click to expand...

LECOM tuition and fees: 29,480+300+300+250+235+50+538+1200=32353*4=129,412
NSU: 43,225+145+900=44270*4=177,080
177,080-129,412=47,668 difference in tuition+fees
 
allenlchs said:
LECOM tuition and fees: 29,480+300+300+250+235+50+538+1200=32353*4=129,412
NSU: 43,225+145+900=44270*4=177,080
177,080-129,412=47,668 difference in tuition+fees
Click to expand...
Maybe you're missing the point. Karmals is trying to say the Cost of Attendance, the COA, will likely be higher at Nova because FTL is more expensive to live than Bradenton. The COA at LECOM-B is ~62k/yr for OOS. Since Nova is already 50k higher JUST in tuition, it will LIKELY be closer to 100k more in TOTAL after the COA is used. You cannot just compare tuition and fees.
 
KarmaIsTruth said:
I sat in a session, too.

They were trying to desperately read some sort of radiology on a screen. They were scrambling for what seemed almost 10 minutes. The facilitator just kind of sat there drinking a pina colada. Why not just give the answer?
Click to expand...
I mean the whole point of PBL is for the students to arrive at a solution, but ya I was not impressed by how it worked at LECOM. I assumed much more discussion and talking it out rather than scrambling for something online or in the books. Makes me wonder what the students are reading to prepare for these sessions.
 
Sarasota and the west coast of Florida is a great place! Although, Lakewood Ranch (location of LECOM-B) is a little more quiet.

NSU > LECOM in terms of facilities and amenities.

Not really sure about PBL. It seems great for those kinds of learners.


I've heard mixed things about LECOM-B, but they still produce great doctors (knowing quite a few alumni).

But, I think NSU fits my style and I love their rotations more. I'd choose NSU, imo.
 
Most people on this website do not seem to be a fan of PBL. I wonder why.
 
I'd go NSU. Then again, CoA wasn't super high on my list of priorities when choosing schools, and if it's worth it to save the money then do it. Both are decent schools though.
 
O Grady said:
I'd go NSU. Then again, CoA wasn't super high on my list of priorities when choosing schools, and if it's worth it to save the money then do it. Both are decent schools though.
Click to expand...

Could you give some reasons for your NSU decision?
 
O Grady said:
Admittedly I'm not an expert on either school, but anecdotally I've heard far better things about NSU, and a lot of gripes about LECOM-B. NSU seems to have a better rep, plus the attached ug school.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.

I suppose that seems to be the consensus here on SDN.
 
Ok listen. I used to live in Bradenton.

YOU, OP, seem to like NOVA. It is probably the more attractive option overall, until you get into that 80K tuition difference and realize that the end result (high board scores) at LECOM are maybe worth sucking up the difference. LECOM Rotations are notoriously mediocre at best, and the facilities, faculty, etc are all probably average at best also. Figure out if you want a college experience and all the frills (NOVA) or if you can deal with the 80K tuition and COA difference (despite what the other poster wants to believe, living near NOVA will run you around 1500 for a studio or 1 bed, or you can likely get a decent 2 bed in Bradenton for 1000/mo, TOPS.) go LECOM.



Sarasota is beautiful, not as populated as NOVA I'm sure, but near Tampa, which is a huge area. You can do anything and everything there.
 
DocWinter said:
Ok listen. I used to live in Bradenton.

YOU, OP, seem to like NOVA. It is probably the more attractive option overall, until you get into that 80K tuition difference and realize that the end result (high board scores) at LECOM are maybe worth sucking up the difference. LECOM Rotations are notoriously mediocre at best, and the facilities, faculty, etc are all probably average at best also. Figure out if you want a college experience and all the frills (NOVA) or if you can deal with the 80K tuition and COA difference (despite what the other poster wants to believe, living near NOVA will run you around 1500 for a studio or 1 bed, or you can likely get a decent 2 bed in Bradenton for 1000/mo, TOPS.) go LECOM.



Sarasota is beautiful, not as populated as NOVA I'm sure, but near Tampa, which is a huge area. You can do anything and everything there.
Click to expand...

Did you mean to say NSU rotations?
 
does bradenton offer research opportunities? decided i'm gonna def involve myself with research. i think i heard that they do but wanted to know if anyone had more insight.
 
psychic_hearts said:
does bradenton offer research opportunities? decided i'm gonna def involve myself with research. i think i heard that they do but wanted to know if anyone had more insight.
Click to expand...
No. The admissions told me during interview that "if you want research then you should find a different school". They have a research club that does some literature review crap, but really nothing you or I want.
 
allenlchs said:
Did you mean to say NSU rotations?
Click to expand...
Well, if you're curious, here are our core rotation sites: http://medicine.nova.edu/do/clinical_rotation.html

The large majority of Nova students rotate at large teaching hospitals with multiple residency programs. In addition, Plantation General is moving to Nova's campus and will be, effectively, a 200+ bed university hospital. I think we're among the best Osteopathic schools as far as clinical education goes.
 
If you have dreams of being a professional tennis player, get an education in Bradenton... otherwise, this isn't even a question. NOVA is a WAY better school.
 
Bill Brasky said:
Well, if you're curious, here are our core rotation sites: http://medicine.nova.edu/do/clinical_rotation.html

The large majority of Nova students rotate at large teaching hospitals with multiple residency programs. In addition, Plantation General is moving to Nova's campus and will be, effectively, a 200+ bed university hospital. I think we're among the best Osteopathic schools as far as clinical education goes.
Click to expand...
do you happen to know if nova is gonna open up more specialty residency programs anytime soon? i am concerned by the whole MD/DO residency combination so i was hoping nsu might open more residencies.
 
psychic_hearts said:
btw i ultimately chose nova over bradenton- very difficult decision since i personally found them both to be excellent programs, tuition aside.
Click to expand...

Good luck! Med School really is what you make of it. Work hard and you will get a good education.
 
Those 3 months of rural med rotations is a HUGE con if you want to specialize. It decreases your odds of making the necessary connections even for IM programs that have fellowships attached to them.

And if you plan is to do primary care, pick LECOM again. Much more manageable loan burden.
 
Imnotfromjersey said:
Those 3 months of rural med rotations is a HUGE con if you want to specialize. It decreases your odds of making the necessary connections even for IM programs that have fellowships attached to them.

And if you plan is to do primary care, pick LECOM again. Much more manageable loan burden.
Click to expand...
well its too late for me since i gave my final choice for nova but out of curiosity how is it a con if you want to specialize to do 3 months of rural medicine in the fourth year?
 
psychic_hearts said:
well its too late for me since i gave my final choice for nova but out of curiosity how is it a con if you want to specialize to do 3 months of rural medicine in the fourth year?
Click to expand...

Actually it might be okay if you get lucky with that being scheduled after the match. You can get scheduled to go to rural Georgia to rotate through family med while other 4th years will have had the chance to do 3-8 audition rotations! Once it comes time to match, thats a huge advantage for them.

DO's need every leg up they can get if they want a good ACGME spot. Moreover, in the AOA world, there is huge emphasis on who you know rather than comlex scores.

If you compare the lecom-b match list vs nova, lecom-b produces a much higher rate of match into specialties.

Edit: also, nova limits you to one month per specialty in 4th year, and two months of sub I's in said field. (I'm not sure on the sub I's amount/limit, confirm it yourself)

Personally, I'm picking another school over nova solely because of how they handle the rotations.
 
Last edited:
never really thought of them as "auditions" as I am sure people are often accepted to programs they didn't rotate at. i guess i will need to talk to more residents about this matter.
 
also does anyone have any idea why nova doesn't list their dermatology matches on the match list.
 
Is this actually true that LECOM matches students to better places?

I wouldn't exactly come to those conclusions looking at NSU match lists.
 
Imnotfromjersey said:
Actually it might be okay if you get lucky with that being scheduled after the match. You can get scheduled to go to rural Georgia to rotate through family med while other 4th years will have had the chance to do 3-8 audition rotations! Once it comes time to match, thats a huge advantage for them.

DO's need every leg up they can get if they want a good ACGME spot. Moreover, in the AOA world, there is huge emphasis on who you know rather than comlex scores.

If you compare the lecom-b match list vs nova, lecom-b produces a much higher rate of match into specialties.

Edit: also, nova limits you to one month per specialty in 4th year, and two months of sub I's in said field. (I'm not sure on the sub I's amount/limit, confirm it yourself)

Personally, I'm picking another school over nova solely because of how they handle the rotations.
Click to expand...
This is not quite my understanding. I've spoken with many 3rd and 4th years at Nova about this topic as well as current residents who went here.

Your rural rotations pose an issue only if you are scheduled to do them between July-Novemberish, which is statistically unlikely to happen to you. That is the prime season for audition rotations and acquiring letters. It is definitely a con, but my understanding is that only two of those months are assigned to you at a specific site and time. This means it will only shorten your time frame during that period, not eliminate it. There are no sites in Georgia that I know of. They are mostly in Florida.

I believe the official limit for rotations in a specialty is 2 months, as it is at many other schools. But there are ways around that which the university will accept - I have met M4s doing 4 rotations in the same specialty.

I can't speak to the match list vs. LECOM-B, but we have a ton of specialty matches. Last year there was an ACGME RadOnc match and an ENT match. I don't think the rural rotations are hurting our match list and I would advise basing any decision for or against Nova on other factors aside from the structure of 4th year.
 
psychic_hearts said:
also does anyone have any idea why nova doesn't list their dermatology matches on the match list.
Click to expand...

Dermatology is a specialty that you apply for after doing an intern year, which is why I believe you don't see it listed on any DO school's match list.
 
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