"Nurse practitioner specialists"

[shaken]

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I had an appointment with the doctor, and saw him. He did a biopsy, and ordered a series of ultrasounds. He promised to call me back with the results of the biopsy, and told me to call him if he hadn't gotten back to me at a certain time. I did. He'd taken off for vacation, KNEW he was going on vacation when he LIED and told me he'd be calling me, and he had dumped everything on this girl's desk. She told me WITHOUT EVEN ASKING ME that she would be the one reading the biopsy and ultrasound results and she could make a diagnosis and start treatment without him. That's just WRONG. First of all, I did NOT release my medical records to this girl. I did NOT give her permission to read my file or read my test results. She just took over, and it took me FIVE MINUTES of point-blank questioning ("Are you a doctor?") and her hedging to FINALLY get her to admit she wasn't even a doctor!

AND THIS IS A CANCER CARE CENTER!!! Not freaking Bum****, Nowhere Free Clinic!!

It's wrong. Nurse practitioners do NOT belong at a facility where doctors are treating seriously ill people. If someone wants them to take care of their kid's diaper rash, that's their business, but no "nurse-practitioner" should be allowed to be involved with cancer care. Only real doctors should be involved.

I'm completely disgusted. Either be a doctor or be a nurse. This middle-of-the-road half-assed approach is only contributing the watered-down, impersonal, crappy health care in this country. It's dishonest and it's lazy. If a doctor can only see a certain number of patients, he should only take on a certain number of patients. To hire cheap, untrained help so he can pad his case-load and look important is sleazy.

And then, when you research these "nurse-practitioners" on the 'net, you run across blogs and forums for these people where they BRAG about getting their "training" online, or even that they don't REALLY have to collaberate with a doctor, they just have to have a doctor's name on record. One stupid cow was blathering on about how the doctor she was SUPPOSEDLY affiliated with lived several hundred miles away and she'd never even met him, and she could practice on her own as long as there was a name attached to her office. Her patients had NO FREAKING CLUE that this was some wannabe nobody with no training who was diagnosing and prescribing for them without a real doctor supervising her.

It's criminal. It's just so wrong.

 

[zenman]

I stumbled over this thread while doing a search on these "nurse-practitioner" people (doctor wannabes is more like it).

"Doctor wannabes?" If NP wanted to be doctors, they have the same opportunities to attend medical school as anyone else. I'll be attending NP school soon and it's certainly not because I want to be a doctor.

I was horrified and shocked to find that the doctor I had paid (out of pocket) to see was palming my care off to a nurse practitioner without my permission.

You have every right to see the healthcare provider of your choice as do my elderly parents, both with multiple health problems who prefer to see the NP and PA at their physician's office. The physician probably prefers that arrangement also!

The reason I went to see him (head of a gynecological oncology department in a very prestigious cancer care center affiliated with a very prestigious teaching hospital in NYC) was because I was sick and tired of the half-assed, crappy, thoughtless care I was getting from the in-network doctors (who usually hand off everything to their nurse-practitioners or physician's assistants - one of whom ended up being the doctor's niece who needed a summer job and wasn't even licensed to do ANYTHING, much less take blood or interpret ultrasounds). I was willing to pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars to see this guy, who was recommended for his brilliance AND his compassion and care, and then I found out some chick with a power complex was taking everything over, had access to my files which held highly, highly confidential personal information, and I hadn't even been asked for permission.

You are complaining about NPs yet, you have once again been screwed over by a physician. What are you trying to say. Perhaps you need to see a healthcare provider known as a psychologist?

I'm so shaken I don't want to go back. I don't know who to trust, or what my rights are, or if it's even worth following through. I feel violated and betrayed, and totally ripped off.

You need to clarify things up front with your doctor.

The commitment to education and training is as important to the training and education itself. If these nurses want to play doctor, they can damned well put in the time, money and effort and get real degrees, otherwise all they're doing is jeopardizing people's health for the sake of their own egos.

Again, if I wanted to be a physician, I'd have gone to medical school. I've been a nurse for 30 years and most of the docs I've worked with have been great and caring people. However, I could scare the crap out of you if I wanted with hundreds of "war stories." And get off that "ego" thing.

 

[zenman]

She told me WITHOUT EVEN ASKING ME that she would be the one reading the biopsy and ultrasound results and she could make a diagnosis and start treatment without him. That's just WRONG. First of all, I did NOT release my medical records to this girl. I did NOT give her permission to read my file or read my test results. She just took over, and it took me FIVE MINUTES of point-blank questioning ("Are you a doctor?") and her hedging to FINALLY get her to admit she wasn't even a doctor!

She's reading the biopsy results "to you.' The pathologist is the one who "reads" the results, even to your physician. You don't release your medical records to just one person but to a team of people, all of who have a part in your care.

If a doctor can only see a certain number of patients, he should only take on a certain number of patients. To hire cheap, untrained help so he can pad his case-load and look important is sleazy.

He has to see a patient every few minutes or he can't pay the bills. Welcome to modern medicine!

And then, when you research these "nurse-practitioners" on the 'net, you run across blogs and forums for these people where they BRAG about getting their "training" online...

If you check, you'll see the top universities in the world have online classes. It's called "adult education" and is for people who do not have to be spoon fed in a class room. I've done it both ways and prefer the online classes. I get to have personal time with my professors and do not have to share them with a bunch of idiots asking stupid questions that they could have looked up the answers themselves.

 

[hospPA]

Psych consult for Shaken, I think. Anxiety plus or minus some paranoia? Get a grip, please!

Pat

 

[Happy613]

Shaken,

I am so sorry you are going throuh such a terrible time in your life. I think the way you have been treated is just awful.

HOWEVER: DO NOT LET THIS PREVENT YOU FROM CONTINUING YOUR TREATMENT!!!!!

It sounds like this doctor runs a rather lousy practice. Several years ago my mother had breast cancer, Thankfully she is ok now. Her oncologist was amazing, he would pick up the phone anytime someone called. He understood that people were calling about literally life and death issues. The caveat was you had to be understanding when you where with him and he answered another patients call.

I understand how your bad experience has caused you to be angered at NP's and PA's but I think this is more a symptom of a very poorly run practice, and very mean inconsiderate people, than it is a reflection on mid-level providers. As Zenman said the doctor is acting terribly here. When its done correctly (and thats the majority of places) NP's an PA's are a crucial asset to the healtcare team.

FINALLY: You should consider switching doctors. If you would like the names of a few good oncologists in the NYC area please PM me.

Best wishes.

 

[adamdowannabe]

Shaken ,

You make it seem like your impression of a midlevel care provider is that they receive their licensure from a cracker jack box! PA's and NP's put in YEARS of education, and then as far as being a PA is concernced, more education every year to keep the certification, 2x as much as a physician is required to obtain to maintain their board certification.

PA's and NP's are very capable providers, and oftem times, after a few years on the job are VERY up to speed with what it takes to practice as proficiently as their physician colleagues. Many do research, (oncology is a good example) and publish journal articals with physician friends, the possibility is very strong that the majority of the article is created by the NP/PA and the MD name is added for credibility. (unfortunately)

If you had a cancer specialist call you, you wasn't a medical doctor, or PA, or NP, but had all their training in oncology, a PHd in physiology who specialized in abnormal cellular growth, would you write the same argument that you were pawned off onto a cheap replacement?

Plus, I wonder if patients/people, think an MD learns all to be a good specialist in medical school? You must realize, this oncologist probably knew next to nothing about oncology before his residency, and has been learning ever since. Same is the case for NP's in oncology I think have the specialize in such during their education, and PA's are in the same boat as the physician, their specialty training comes from the same experiences the physician, learn by doing. Unless there is come new fangled "College of Oncology Medicine" that is skipping the rest of medicine and going straight for the Onco lectures. I haven't heard of one yet though.

I agree with the above posts, you should be upset that your doctor lied to you, and be thankful that a very competent provider is covering for him.

You're anger is misplaced.

 

[zenman]

Shaken, you might want to read "The Last Well Patient: How to Stay Well Despite the Health-Care System" by Nortin M. Hadler, M.D.

 

[Happy613]

Psych consult for Shaken, I think. Anxiety plus or minus some paranoia? Get a grip, please!

Pat

I think Shaken is just really upset. It must be quite an ordeal she is enduring. While she has said some rather infamatory things about midlevels, I think we can all give her a bit of a pass here (and still explain to her her misconceptions).

 

[hospPA]

I think Shaken is just really upset. It must be quite an ordeal she is enduring. While she has said some rather infamatory things about midlevels, I think we can all give her a bit of a pass here (and still explain to her her misconceptions).

I should have been more compassionate, but what I said still might be in order. It is very dangerous to make these kind of decisions based on one experience. Also, the fact that shaken was misinformed (or not informed) at how the healthcare system and HIPPA laws work is her/his own fault. One should be informed about everything they are involved with. Being ignorant is often one's own fault. Just my humble opinion.

Pat

 

[NPs Save Lives]

If you check, you'll see the top universities in the world have online classes. It's called "adult education" and is for people who do not have to be spoon fed in a class room. I've done it both ways and prefer the online classes. I get to have personal time with my professors and do not have to share them with a bunch of idiots asking stupid questions that they could have looked up the answers themselves.

I am currently attending my NP online through Florida State University myself. I absolutely agree with Zenman on the above points. Your education is what you put into it yourself. I learned most of what I know ,as a nurse, in the trenches after graduation. I have had good and bad experiences with nurse practitioners and doctors both and am a firm believer in people not pretending to be what they're not! It's gross misconduct for a person to portray themselves as a doctor when they aren't. I also thought about becoming a doctor at first but soon realized that I can give my patients the attention and care they need as a NP without having to put in years of Chemistry, Physics, and so forth. I do understand the need for understanding how it all works and I do read up on the subjects on the side (ones not needed for my program) just because I am a medical sponge anyway. I expect to collaborate with a physician as needed to give my patients high quality care. I have great respect for doctors, PAs, NPs and nurses who truly put patient care above their egos.

 

[mx_599]

"Well its quite clear by what you wrote about doctors that you are not one and dont want to become one. "

What ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? ARE YOU ******ED?
Listen Pt care is understood and unless you are questioning yourself about you career move, it shouldn’t be brought up. I was merely trying to provide some realistic points that should be considered. If you want me to start speaking in terms like some of my physician colleagues about you guys I will. “Everybody knows Nurses are only good for one thing, sucking D. That goes for the male nurses too, because for a guy to have that job he’s gotta be playing for the other team"

 

[niko327]

The above post(s) does nothing to enlighten anyone, unless you're trying to teach them how to be a rude prick. If you have something to say about nursing (as I've had many times before) or any other profession just make your point.

 

[guetzow]

Soon it'll all be the same. NPs do CV surgery now, and PA's do NICU; get the picture. ..?My only beef is with "paraprofessionals" (Non-practitioners) trying to practice medicine.

 

[BSN]

Clearly their needs to be awareness campaign about the aspirations of the NP's... With an organized effort, physicians should prevail. Further, if their is a shortage of physicians, it makes sense to develop/create a bridge program for PA's who are trained in the medical model, already have pre-reqs., and were good students capable of medical school to begin with. What better group of people to draw from than the PA community who fall under the medical association umbrella. It might also cause potential students who are considering DrNP to take a second look at PA school which would be shorter, better training, and could offer them the opportunity to someday use the bridge program to become a real physician rather than a pseudo doctor. Just some thoughts. L.

Why does everyone want to bash nurse in everyway!!!! NPs don't want to replace doctors if we did we would have become one, that's just not the case. Everyone loves to attack nurse, we are not attacking you, I don't get it?? Many Many studies have shown NP's are very good health care providers. Don't worry about your jobs; there are many positions to go around. Let’s look at what we came into healthcare for, our Patients. Many people do not have health care due to financial reasons; studies have shown the NPs can provide good health care for these people and more. ALL doctors that work with NP like them and we love our doctors and respect PAs. Doctors that use NPs have stated that their patient love the extra time NP can give to the patient. Please let’s stop this bashing, "there is room for all us!!”

 

[bell412]

mx_599
quit posting here. your an adolesant antagonizer. you do not know what you are talking about on any of your posts. yes I'm an RN but it will take you a lifetime to have the expertise I have. I have been a flight nurse for 10 years and now I'm finishing nurse anesthesia school. your a fool for going to medical school because there will be a nurse ready to do YOUR job when your done with your stupid little school.

 

[anesthesiadrew]

mx_599
quit posting here. your an adolesant antagonizer. you do not know what you are talking about on any of your posts. yes I'm an RN but it will take you a lifetime to have the expertise I have. I have been a flight nurse for 10 years and now I'm finishing nurse anesthesia school. your a fool for going to medical school because there will be a nurse ready to do YOUR job when your done with your stupid little school.

Well said and much agreed. I believe you are the third person to state this. TROLLY TROLLY TROLLY.

 

[mx_599]

mx_599
quit posting here.

Why can't I post here?? 🙁

your an adolesant antagonizer.

Wow...that's pretty harsh, what did I do to you?

you do not know what you are talking about on any of your posts.

I don't know about that...I'd say about 50% of the time I know what I am talking about.

yes I'm an RN

Really?...I couldn't tell.

... but it will take you a lifetime to have the expertise I have.

I don't know about that. Do you mean a lifetime for me to catch up to where you are currently?? Or do you mean that I will never catch up in a dynamic sense because as I learn you will be learning too?

I have been a flight nurse for 10 years and now I'm finishing nurse anesthesia school.

Sounds good...from what I read on SDN it seems like a very nice profession.

your a fool for going to medical school because there will be a nurse ready to do YOUR job when your done with your stupid little school.

Well that really made me feel good.

 

[mx_599]

Well said and much agreed. I believe you are the third person to state this. TROLLY TROLLY TROLLY.

How am I a troll? I have never been referred to as a troll on here. I don't want to be known as a troll. I did not start any of these threads...

 

[DrMom]

Users who are simply posting in certain forums in order to antagonize people are in violation of the TOS you agreed to when you registered. We do not tolerate the bashing of other healthcare professionals.

 

[FoughtFyr]

Users who are simply posting in certain forums in order to antagonize people are in violation of the TOS you agreed to when you registered. We do not tolerate the bashing of other healthcare professionals.

DrMom -

With all due respect (and that is a lot!) mx_599 really isn't the antagonist here. He quoted an obnoxious post by another user and followed only with laughing smileys of his own. That was met with this:

mx_599
quit posting here. your an adolesant antagonizer. you do not know what you are talking about on any of your posts. yes I'm an RN but it will take you a lifetime to have the expertise I have. I have been a flight nurse for 10 years and now I'm finishing nurse anesthesia school. your a fool for going to medical school because there will be a nurse ready to do YOUR job when your done with your stupid little school.

bell412 has had some other doozies like:

oh wocgeorge i have this book called medical physiology written by a arthur guyton. i'm sittin here with my underwear on the outside of my jeans trying to figure ot the medial lemniscal system of the dorsal column. could you use all your student woctor power and explain the spatial orientation of the nerve fibers? thanks wocgeorge.

and

gzagza whats woctor school like? can't you just wait to take that little thong of a white coat and put on a long one!! wow then you can have your own little name tag that say's doctor woctor.

and

Alpha Male it must be hard for you to do a job that nurses can do?

and the best yet

dear woctors. i'm sorry to say that your moderator has told me that i have been a very very bad murse. i guess that all the woctors are willy willy mad at this bad bad murse. so from now on i will do what i'm told to do just like a good murse should. so from now on for the rest of this thread i will have to respond by saying yes woctor or no woctor. unless by popular demand you ask me to keep trolling for woctors!!!!!!!!

It seems like threads he joins devolve quickly and often end closed. Make this one of them please...

- H

 

[DrMom]

I don't see anywhere in my post where I singled anyone out. I am well aware that there are multiples involved here and I deliberately made my statement a general one.

 

[mx_599]

I don't see anywhere in my post where I singled anyone out. I am well aware that there are multiples involved here and I deliberately made my statement a general one.

If it makes you happy I will stop posting in the clinicians section for awhile 🙂

 

[bell412]

Originally Posted by DasN
"Well its quite clear by what you wrote about doctors that you are not one and dont want to become one. "

What ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? ARE YOU ******ED?
Listen Pt care is understood and unless you are questioning yourself about you career move, it shouldn’t be brought up. I was merely trying to provide some realistic points that should be considered. If you want me to start speaking in terms like some of my physician colleagues about you guys I will. “Everybody knows Nurses are only good for one thing, sucking D. That goes for the male nurses too, because for a guy to have that job he’s gotta be playing for the other team"

You see foughtfyr this pisses me off.

 

[FoughtFyr]

Originally Posted by DasN
"Well its quite clear by what you wrote about doctors that you are not one and dont want to become one. "

What ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? ARE YOU ******ED?
Listen Pt care is understood and unless you are questioning yourself about you career move, it shouldn't be brought up. I was merely trying to provide some realistic points that should be considered. If you want me to start speaking in terms like some of my physician colleagues about you guys I will. "Everybody knows Nurses are only good for one thing, sucking D. That goes for the male nurses too, because for a guy to have that job he's gotta be playing for the other team"

You see foughtfyr this pisses me off.

Great. Then report the post to the moderators. Or respond to it. But don't go after the individual who laughed at it. For all you know he/she was laughing at how stupid the post was. As someone who has frequently and obnoxiously attacked others here do you really expect that you will gain credibilty this way? It seems to me you spend a good deal of time "on the attack" and almost none actually adding to the knowledge of others. And for that reason ***into the ignore file you go***.

- H

 

[DrMom]

closing this thread for obvious reasons.