Nursing or Graduate program?

[AMQMED]

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Hi,

I am male, and currently in 3rd year Biology Undergrad in Canada, and had a question.

I am thinking of either pursing a 2 year accelerated nursing program or a 2 year graduate program after undergrad depending on which will be better (GPA, knowledge wise) program as a "stepping stone" for medical school.

The nursing program is easier to get into than the graduate program.

This is the nursing program i am talking about: http://www.fhs.mcmaster.ca/nursing/educ_bscn_accel.shtml

and this is the graduate program: http://www.uwo.ca/anatomy/grad/msclinic.html

Any suggestions / recommendations would be amazingly appreciated 😎

 

[LandSpeed]

Hi,

I am male, and currently in 3rd year Biology Undergrad in Canada, and had a question.

I am thinking of either pursing a 2 year accelerated nursing program or a 2 year graduate program after undergrad depending on which will be better (GPA, knowledge wise) program as a "stepping stone" for medical school.

The nursing program is easier to get into than the graduate program.

This is the nursing program i am talking about: http://www.fhs.mcmaster.ca/nursing/educ_bscn_accel.shtml

and this is the graduate program: http://www.uwo.ca/anatomy/grad/msclinic.html

Any suggestions / recommendations would be amazingly appreciated 😎

The big question is figuring out how dedicated you are to pursuing your goals. If you think that medicine is what you want to do, then go for it. But, in nursing the biggest question/problem I've seen from people is that they wish they'd gone further and not stopped. Good luck

 

[AMQMED]

The big question is figuring out how dedicated you are to pursuing your goals. If you think that medicine is what you want to do, then go for it. But, in nursing the biggest question/problem I've seen from people is that they wish they'd gone further and not stopped. Good luck

Thanks, also, does anyone know the chances of getting into a medical school from a nursing program?

 

[LandSpeed]

Thanks, also, does anyone know the chances of getting into a medical school from a nursing program?

I think you have a good chance at getting in with a nursing degree. There are lots of nurses who go back to school --> med school. Some people disagree and say that because of the nursing shortage, you're ethically obligated to be a nurse... but that's really the only argument people have against nurses not going into medicine. This is not the truth, however. The good thing about nursing is that it will give you a great clinical experience and medical preparation above and beyond any volunteering, shadowing, research opportunities, or part time work as a CNA, EMT, etc. I myself am in a nursing program, and I'm learning all about medicine... I think that the majority of med students' learning in medicine occurs during their residencies and 2 years of clinical rotations, after they've taken the initial didactic 2 years of science. My nursing program is three years long, and so far I've been exposed to pharmacology, physiology, and many many disease processes/conditions in addition to doing clinical rotations in med surg units, mental health, ob/gyn, and pediatrics. So, if you ask me nursing is a good prep for medicine. Whether or not people on this board want to admit that or not is another issue entirely. And, it's unfortunate to say that you'll find people biased against nurses on this board for one reason or another, but keep that in mind if you take this question into the preallo forum or somewhere else.

 

[BSN2DOC]

I wouldn't rely on the fact that you will boost your GPA with a nursing program. I am in a very accelerated BSN program and I am thankful that I had a very high GPA before entering my program because I am averaging a 3.3 GPA in nursing school. Nursing school sounds easy (and in fact, the material is fairly easy if you put a little bit of time into it...), however, nursing school exams are fairly difficult. Nursing school exams don't really test your knowledge -- hard to explain.

I have heard that standard nursing programs (those stretched out over a 2 year span) are not far too difficult to manage at least a 3.5+.

 

[AMQMED]

I think you have a good chance at getting in with a nursing degree. There are lots of nurses who go back to school --> med school. Some people disagree and say that because of the nursing shortage, you're ethically obligated to be a nurse... but that's really the only argument people have against nurses not going into medicine. This is not the truth, however. The good thing about nursing is that it will give you a great clinical experience and medical preparation above and beyond any volunteering, shadowing, research opportunities, or part time work as a CNA, EMT, etc. I myself am in a nursing program, and I'm learning all about medicine... I think that the majority of med students' learning in medicine occurs during their residencies and 2 years of clinical rotations, after they've taken the initial didactic 2 years of science. My nursing program is three years long, and so far I've been exposed to pharmacology, physiology, and many many disease processes/conditions in addition to doing clinical rotations in med surg units, mental health, ob/gyn, and pediatrics. So, if you ask me nursing is a good prep for medicine. Whether or not people on this board want to admit that or not is another issue entirely. And, it's unfortunate to say that you'll find people biased against nurses on this board for one reason or another, but keep that in mind if you take this question into the preallo forum or somewhere else.

That is exactly my mindset, that nursing is a good prep for medicine. Thanks for the info.

 

[LandSpeed]

...nursing school exams are fairly difficult. Nursing school exams don't really test your knowledge -- hard to explain.

Isn't that the truth. To the OP, yeah, don't rely on Nursing to boost your GPA. Tests in nursing are "critical thinking" style exams, which is another way of saying subjective and not based on the material covered in the course.

 

[AMQMED]

Isn't that the truth. To the OP, yeah, don't rely on Nursing to boost your GPA. Tests in nursing are "critical thinking" style exams, which is another way of saying subjective and not based on the material covered in the course.

By that you mean .. as an example ... given a scenario what would you do in a certain situation? (And i would answer it based on my knowledge)

 

[LandSpeed]

By that you mean .. as an example ... given a scenario what would you do in a certain situation? (And i would answer it based on my knowledge)

Kind of, yeah. Tests ask about clinical situations as well as other things like knowledge of disease processes, effects of meds, interpersonal situations, etc. So there are clinical scenario type questions, but there are also others... believe me when I tell you that nursing isn't fair. I've got a 4.0 so far, but I've had to work extremely hard and even I get b's on the tests, sometimes, which for me never used to happen. I don't like even admitting that, but unfortunately in nursing they don't create fair tests.

 

[LandSpeed]

By that you mean .. as an example ... given a scenario what would you do in a certain situation? (And i would answer it based on my knowledge)

here's a question from a quiz we had:
In determining the patient's hydration status the nurse evaluates the I&O and daily weight. Lab values are also used to determine hydration status. Which of the following lab values would provide the best information?
A. Creatinine and BUN
B. Hbg/HCT and Na
C. Creatinine Clearance and Na
D. BUN, HCT, and Na
Now, you know that some of these answers address hydration status. But, what you don't know is which one's are the most correct/provide best information, because in the lectures, text, and in your clinical experience this information is not provided. There are lots of questions like this. They basically ask you things that aren't covered in the text. It's their way of setting a curve, in a lot of cases. For instance, on our last exam out of 115 students the highest grade was a 93%.

 

[AMQMED]

here's a question from a quiz we had:
In determining the patient's hydration status the nurse evaluates the I&O and daily weight. Lab values are also used to determine hydration status. Which of the following lab values would provide the best information? A. Creatinine and BUN B. Hbg/HCT and Na C. Creatinine Clearance and Na D. BUN, HCT, and NaNow, you know that some of these answers address hydration status. But, what you don't know is which one's are the most correct/provide best information, because in the lectures, text, and in your clinical experience this information is not provided. There are lots of questions like this. They basically ask you things that aren't covered in the text. It's their way of setting a curve, in a lot of cases. For instance, on our last exam out of 115 students the highest grade was a 93%.

I see what your saying. Btw, if i had to guess i would say b, or D.

 

[LandSpeed]

I see what your saying. Btw, if i had to guess i would say b, or D.

Well, the answer is D.

Let me dig up a question from my psych test for you...


The mental health or mental illness of a particular client can best be assessed by considering

A. the degree of conformity of the individual to society's norms.
B. the degree to which an individual is logical and rational.
C. placement on a continuum from healthy to psychotic.
D. the rate of intellectual and emotional growth.

The right answer is who the hell knows, right? It wasn't in the book, it wasn't in the lecture. So what do you do then?

 

[AMQMED]

Well, the answer is D.

Let me dig up a question from my psych test for you...


The mental health or mental illness of a particular client can best be assessed by considering

A. the degree of conformity of the individual to society's norms.
B. the degree to which an individual is logical and rational.
C. placement on a continuum from healthy to psychotic.
D. the rate of intellectual and emotional growth.

The right answer is who the hell knows, right? It wasn't in the book, it wasn't in the lecture. So what do you do then?

Either your good at critical thinking or not. in this case i would say it is Definitely A. If its wrong then i would use the argument of "the more data, the better ie clinical trials" and using the society as a reference frame vs relying on a person's reasoning which is different for everybody (thus making b,c,d wrong) and besides mentally ill people in say, africa would be considered normal vs here.

 

[LandSpeed]

Either your good at critical thinking or not. in this case i would say it is Definitely A. If its wrong then i would use the argument of "the more data, the better ie clinical trials" and using the society as a reference frame vs relying on a person's reasoning which is different for everybody (thus making b,c,d wrong) and besides mentally ill people in say, africa would be considered normal vs here.

I want you to save that rationale for why you got the answer right, because you'll be saying it to yourself lots when you get a big, fat B on your nursing exam. The right answer is actually C. This wasn't in the book, in the lecture, hiding in the closet, or anywhere else, for that matter. Starting to see what I mean about critical thinking tests? And I am good at critical thinking, but I hate it. I've studied psychometrics before, and know what makes a fair test. These nursing tests aren't fair.

 

[AMQMED]

I want you to save that rationale for why you got the answer right, because you'll be saying that to yourself lots when you get a big, fat B on your nursing exam. The right answer is actually C. This wasn't in the book, in the lecture, hiding in the closet, or anywhere else, for that matter. Starting to see what I mean about critical thinking tests?

Now i see, its a practical theoretical question and not a "theoretical question" like in physics.
In practice, you would have a scale to rank mental illness so i guess that answer would make more sense.

 

[LandSpeed]

Now i see, its a practical theoretical question and not a "theoretical question" like in physics.
In practice, you would have a scale to rank mental illness so i guess that answer would make more sense.

Well, my point is that the test questions come out of nowhere and your studying doesn't help, because they're subjective. Hence, nursing sucks. I'm glad med schools don't do this.

 

[AMQMED]

Well, my point is that the test questions come out of nowhere and your studying doesn't help, because they're subjective. Hence, nursing sucks. I'm glad med schools don't do this.

Personally, i think the experience and knowledge that comes from nursing out ways this phenomenon. But i might very well change my decision after i get more insight on the program i want to apply for...

and besides that program (from what i know) has lots of practicals and some tests which are "pass or fail" can't say that for sure for all the other programs out there.

 

[LandSpeed]

Personally, i think the experience and knowledge that comes from nursing out ways this phenomenon. But i might very well change my decision after i get more insight on the program i want to apply for...

and besides that program (from what i know) has lots of practicals and some tests which are "pass or fail" can't say that for sure for all the other programs out there.

I don't mean to discourage you, here, and yes these tests help you build a reasoning-base for making medical decisions... but as far as "earning" your GPA in the traditional sense, it sucks when you study 40 hours for a test and then get a fat B on it. BIG FAT B. bears repeating. BIG FAT B!!









BIG FAT B

 

[AMQMED]

I don't mean to discourage you, here, and yes these tests help you build a reasoning-base for making medical decisions... but as far as "earning" your GPA in the traditional sense, it sucks when you study 40 hours for a test and then get a fat B on it. BIG FAT B. bears repeating. BIG FAT B!!









BIG FAT B

lol, i am guessing you just flopped on a test.

 

[LandSpeed]

lol, i am guessing you just flopped on a test.

No, I didn't flop. I'm just embittered after putting up with people throwing these curveball tests at me for the last year and a half. It's a rude awakening from getting 95%+'s in classes to getting
BIG FAT B's

 

[BSN2DOC]

I agree that nursing school exams are very subjective. Some of the exams do focus on objective information, such as pharmacology and pathophysiology, but otherwise they are typically very subjective.

For example, I studied for a few short hours for a geriatrics exam a few weeks ago and managed a 96%. I studied for 2 days straight for my Ob/Peds exam and managed an 80%. Reason I did so poorly in my Ob/Peds exam is because most of the questions were subjective questions that dealt with "communication with the client". It was a bunch of BS.

High GPA's in nursing school is typically unheard of. The average GPA in my class is below a 3.2, and most of us managed near 4.0's before nursing school. I am in an accelerated nursing program, thus many of the students have previous degrees in biology, chemistry, etc. Those students have expressed that their GPA's were higher when they were taking upper-divisional science courses.

 

[dancinRN1022]

hiya!

hmmmmmmm I also did an acc nursing program and i think i agree and disagree with most of these posts! yes ye Bio GPA was a little higher than my nursing GPA but they were both about the same...

nursing is subjective because medicine it self isn't cut and dry... in bio we memorized almost everything and most things were figured out already for us...there was very little critical thinking... however patients all present differently... and the nursing tests try to address this...I have examples but i don't feel like getting into this...

second...maybe the lecture type classes are similar to bio type questions in med school... but I think the boards are similar to our nursing style questions.... and you need to be able to take both subjective and objective data and figure out the answers...these questions are alot of scenario questions...because that is what medicine is...sometimes the answers to a particular patients problem isn't found in a line in a book... the possibilities are endless so you have to be able to use all the information you have and think of the BEST answer... and that is what nursing asks you to do on a simple level.... medicine will ask us to do it on a bigger more complicated level so trust me the nursing questions aren't pointless

third...yes adcoms and/or interviewers like nurses...trust me! ....they admire and appreciate the clinical experience and patient care experience you get....just have a real reason for going to med school and nursing school... you can't say you went to nursing school to get into med school... but you can say that you loved nursing and then were exposed to medicine...(insert reason here)
my reasons are a little different but still genuine

I guess I am not really an expert just another pre-med who has been blessed enough to get into school the first time applying and fairly early in this cycle...

good luck

 

[Yourmother]

I hate being a jerk but the moment that I start reading a thread and encounter the word Canadian, I just go on to the next post...

its like looking in your pocket for change and finding a Canadian coin, you don't throw it away but it sits on your dresser for months.

 

[LandSpeed]

BIG FAT B's



AAAHHH!

Thanks for watching the return of "attack of the B's" Happy Halloween!

 

[Yourmother]

BIG FAT B's



AAAHHH!

Thanks for watching the return of "attack of the B's" Happy Halloween!

I feel your pain brother. It really pissed me off too when no matter how hard, how long, or how early I started to study I got a B or C and it was still a top 10% of the class.

Some of those profs. just give the most ******ed exams with questions that make no sense.

 

[apoptos]

The mental health or mental illness of a particular client can best be assessed by considering

A. the degree of conformity of the individual to society's norms.
B. the degree to which an individual is logical and rational.
C. placement on a continuum from healthy to psychotic.
D. the rate of intellectual and emotional growth.

The right answer is who the hell knows, right? It wasn't in the book, it wasn't in the lecture. So what do you do then?

Yeah...the question itself seems really didactic. It's like they're training you to ignore what you might've read in Laing or Szasz or the latest psychiatric journal, and answer strictly as a nurse. What's most important is a number, not the theory; how crazy is this patient on a scale of 1 - 10? Get the ativan and some straps, because this guy is 10+ bat**** crazy.