NYC programs

[Kenbpsyched]

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I'm looking to go to NYC because I've always wanted to live there and my partner is there. From my quick browse of past and current threads, I thought it my be appropriate to make an NYC specific section.

I'm wondering if anyone could tell me what they know of the pros and cons of the different NYC programs? Has anyone else heard negative utterances about Cornell? I have heard the following--unhappy, rundown residents, a pretentious, snotty PD with minimal contact with residents but whose greatest trait is that she's well connected and pushes hard for fellowships. I've also heard the Manhattan campus mostly serves upper class white people. Besides the name, its affiliation with Columbia and the Westchester campus, are there other upsides?

I've heard Columbia is amazing with incredible research, great PDs, cool and down to earth residents and a diverse clinical experience. Downside is location and... anything else? Anyone know-is Washington Heights dangerous? Where do people live?

NYU seems interesting but I hear there's serious resident burnout and that--given how strong a program it is--residents go on to do relatively few fellowships. Is it the easiest program to get an interview at? I hear most people who rank it #1 get it, which is appealing. Has anyone else heard that?

What do people know about Mount Sinai? I hadn't heard of it until recently in the news but it sounds like it's growing and has some of the best researchers? How is it clinically? Is it one the upper east side or in Harlem? Are the residents any good? How about the PD(s)?

1) Where are residents happiest?
2) Aside from these 4, which other programs are good?
3) Why is Sinai considered the worst of the 4?
4) Which NYC programs have people heard from?
5) What do people hear about the different PDs and quality of residents?
6) Is Cornell flexible, happy or current? Do you think it has a bright future?

Would appreciate peoples' thoughts!!

 

[eastcoastdr]

I like the idea of discussing programs and their pros/cons etc. But on the other hand..the questions you are asking are all really tricky ones - resident happiness, "good vs. bad", etc. And you basically want us to tell you the rumors we've heard about certain programs? And to top it off you are asking this of strangers on the internet.. how do you know you can trust our judgments of these programs? Someone may find a certain PD to be "pretentious, snotty" but someone else may find them to be an inspirational person. I just don't see the value on discussing rumors/hearsay on a public forum. Factual things and statistics about the school, sure. I mean people are free to give their opinions..discuss away fellow SDNers.. but OP, I urge you to take it all with a grain of salt.

The best way to answer your questions is to check these programs out. Do away rotations there, if you still have time. Attend interviews, ask good questions, make sure you go to resident dinners and pay close attention to how things are run while you are there. Ask people whos' opinions you TRUST who have actually rotated/worked there in the Psych department.

And FYI - I would watch what you say about programs on the internet... especially since you are TRYING to match at them!! Your name may be anonymous but there are ways to figure out who you are. There are tons of attendings and PDs on this board, maybe even some from the programs you are insulting. Don't step on anyone's toes before you even apply/match!

 

[dl2dp2]

It sounds like Columbia has shortest number of cons on your list. Unfortunately it is also the most competitive. Last year they matched 6 MD/PhDs out of 11 categorical spots. If you are not an MD/PhD, you will probably need to be near the top of your class to have a decent shot.

 

[Psychotic]

Do what most people here have done: pore over previous threads (especially interview reviews) over the last few years and you will read plenty of rumors and some objective information about the NYC programs. Sort it all out for yourself. Don't expect anyone to dish it all up to you in one concise post.

 

[Kenbpsyched]

Thanks all for the candid responses. I will streamline my goal here:

1) If anyone else is hoping to interview at programs in the NYC area, please share your experiences. I haven;tlll been to Ny and currently am saving up for interview season.

2) does the prestige of a program matter? From what I've reaid I think Sinai is #1 but wondered if anyone could offer more than a rumorfilled description of them.

 

[Nasrudin]

Thanks all for the candid responses. I will streamline my goal here:

1) If anyone else is hoping to interview at programs in the NYC area, please share your experiences. I haven;tlll been to Ny and currently am saving up for interview season.

2) does the prestige of a program matter? From what I've reaid I think Sinai is #1 but wondered if anyone could offer more than a rumorfilled description of them.

Search something like "interview review." Or even the specific program. There's some sporadic discussion about NYC programs from threads started by people trying to decide how to rank them. Like Sinai vs cornell vs NYU...threads with that sort of title.

What I've surmised overall is that no city in the country has a greater variety and depth of quality programs as NYC. A second teir program there has qualifications that are hard to beat outside of the top programs in the country.

So if that's where you want to end up your in a good position.

The traditional hierarchy in the game of national reputation--if that's your thing--is:

Tier 1--NYU--Cornell--Columbia--Sinai
Tier 2--Montefiore--Beth Israel--st. Luke's--LIJ
Tier 3--the rest

This is strictly from a non-native but avid reader of sdn archives and someone who would love to land a spot in NYC. I have many opposite concerns as a lot of sdn'ers in terms what comprises the attributes of my ideal program, so I'm simply reiterating the general consensus more than what I actually want for myself.

Take that with a pound of salt. There are plenty of NYC residents floating around this forum but reiterating what can be easily ascertained is not likely to entice them. Furthermore, they're not you so how would you know their tastes are yours.

I'm able to read how a person describes a program on the context of where else they've applied and what their posts are like to imagine what I can actually gain from their point of view. But that takes inordinate amounts of time. I've spent years reading this forum's archive. I've targeted NYC programs that suit my specific needs and tastes.

Like that I guess. For how to make use of a thousand conversations in my estimation.

PS. I failed to note that you can only choose from where you apply and who gives you an interview. If you note the interview offer threads, some people clean up and get interviews wherever they want. And the rest of us get a few offers where we are able to. So include that in your analyses of what people have to say and what that means to you and your candidacy.

 

[MiddleRoad]

Agree with most of above. NYC is an amazing place to train as a psych resident. It offers incredible diversity in the patient population and a culture that is arguably more psychiatry-friendly than any other city in the US.

I'm most familiar with Columbia, Cornell, and NYU. You will get top training at any of these three. Individual strengths would be community psych at NYU, research at Columbia, and psychotherapy training at Cornell, though you'll get excellent opportunities for all of these things at each program.

To the OP, I'd disregard the rumors you've heard about the individual programs and check them out for yourself, assuming you're interviewing at the places you mentioned. My exposure to the three programs above suggests that there are excellent faculty and residents at each (as you'd find at the more competitive programs around the country that are the usual suspects on these threads). Most of the residents I've encountered are happy, but there are always some that are dissatisfied at each program.

Regarding Sinai, I've heard many good things about it, mostly here in SDN. I know two residents who were med students there but who both chose one of three programs above over Sinai. The only specific negative I heard from them was that the Psychiatry department wasn't as well respected within the institution as the departments at other places in NYC are within their hospitals. That is only secondhand info, though.

Bottom line is that you that you can get excellent training at any of the places you mentioned, you just need to figure out which one fits your personality and interests best.

 

[Beardpappy]

I'm wondering if anyone could tell me what they know of the pros and cons of the different NYC programs? Has anyone else heard negative utterances about Cornell? I have heard the following--unhappy, rundown residents, a pretentious, snotty PD with minimal contact with residents but whose greatest trait is that she's well connected and pushes hard for fellowships. I've also heard the Manhattan campus mostly serves upper class white people. Besides the name, its affiliation with Columbia and the Westchester campus, are there other upsides?

I'd like to dispel the myth that you only see "mostly upper class white people" at Cornell. As a resident in NYC, no matter where you are, you have an amazing variety of people coming in through the ER. Though Cornell is in the UES of Manhattan, people come from ALL 5 boroughs to be treated there. You will see everyone from the homeless schizophrenic to the bipolar CEO. Hasidic Jews, Dominicans, Chinese, Nigerians, WASPs, Egyptians, Brazilians, Russians... you get the idea, the list of diversity is endless. There are a few more economically privileged people who may come to Cornell because of the reputation and location, but they are a small minority within the general population you'll see. I've heard it argued by people who've trained at both that you get more diversity at Cornell than Columbia because the latter's relatively remote location within Manhattan mostly serves the population in its neighborhood (whereas Cornell, like NYU, draws from all over the city).

As for your other concerns about Cornell, I think you'll find a different story if you visit and ask the residents directly about the program. It's a great program with a well-deserved excellent reputation that generates an impressive roster of graduates each year, with top fellowship opportunities for those who pursue them.

 

[Kenbpsyched]

After interviewing at these 4 programs, y'all are right. You really don't know a program until you visit and probably not until you're immersed in it as a resident!

I'll lead with my impressions and end with some lingering questions.

Columbia seems terrific with great research opportunities and very specialized programs. I thought the didactics were extraordinary, enjoyed the efficiency of interview day, and felt that while medicine during PGY-1 was rigorous, there was enough supervision such that it didn't feel like relentless labor. A huge focus on teaching.
-I still don't have a sense of where people live. Did it seem to anyone else that you had to commute?
-Is there any geri psych at Columbia or is it all at Cornell?
-I didn't get a lot of info on their child rotation. Does anyone have additional perspective to share?

I'm sort of in love with Mount Sinai. It felt warm, flexible, and as though you could make it feel as small or large as you wanted. There are opportunities now for electives at BI and St. Luke's as I understand, but this is required. I thought the two PDs were quite the dynamic duo and heard from residents that there is day to day interaction with them, which appeals to me a lot. Of all the programs, I felt like Mount Sinai was the most authentic.
-What will the negative impact of the merger be on residents?
-With this new integrated phd residency track, do you guys think it will be much more competitive than other years?
-Is it becoming too research focused? Did people get the impression that clinical experiences there were on par with the other programs in the "top tier?"

Cornell's Westchester program reminded me a lot of MGH-McLean. I think Sloan Kettering is a huge plus and love the whole area with Rockefeller, Cornell, Hospital Special Surgery, and Sloan all along one strip. I came away from the interview day still thinking it's a formal program. The PD did allude to a formula she has and that she likes to stick to because it "works."
-Is there enough flexibility?
-How much "harder" is it than other programs and why did so many residents talk about the rigor of the program?

NYU seems very broad, tons of breadth. Very strong in forensics, child and community psych.