O-Chem 2 - Welcome to hell!

[DocteurMarion]

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Isn't mass spectrometry,fragmentation patterns, IR spectroscopy and nuclear magnetic resonance the most boring SUBJECTS of the universe? 😱 Seriously?

I have about 15 homework problems due for next week, I only have today to do it (work full time) and I feel like screamiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing 😡

 

[DrBowtie]

Isn't mass spectrometry,fragmentation patterns, IR spectroscopy and nuclear magnetic resonance the most boring SUBJECTS of the universe? 😱 Seriously?

I have about 15 homework problems due for next week, I only have today to do it (work full time) and I feel like screamiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing 😡

Yep. On the good side they aren't too difficult. Now Synthesis....eek!

 

[QofQuimica]

Isn't mass spectrometry,fragmentation patterns, IR spectroscopy and nuclear magnetic resonance the most boring SUBJECTS of the universe? 😱 Seriously?

I have about 15 homework problems due for next week, I only have today to do it (work full time) and I feel like screamiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing 😡

I would agree with you about MS and IR. Organic chemists don't interpret those MS fragments, and I don't understand why they make undergrads do that. I've never done it even once while in grad school. IR, same thing. I never do it, and many of the journals aren't even requiring it any more. It's generally not that useful, especially if you have proton and carbon NMR, because it only shows functional groups, not structures. NMR on the other hand *is* very important for organic chemists. But it can be tedious to sit there and calculate J-values, so I do feel for ya. on your HW.

 

[happydays]

I'm going to have to concur that NMR is one of the most important techniques, and since MRI's work on the same principle, you should know this subject down pat. You may not need to interpret too many MRI's, but it's good to know about it (just in case).

For my research, I did have to interpret several IR's manually. Mass spec is usually analyzed by searching a database, but the computer does this for you.

In order to be the most productive, I chant over and over again that I LOVE chemistry (which I actually do). Trust me, over time you'll start to believe it, especially when you start to become good at it.

 

[MJB]

I have found that I use very little "chemistry" in the "real world"...and my guess is the same will be true of Organic...

Worse, it's not information I'm all that concerned about having general knowledge of either...Anatomy, Bio, etc...now those are interesting.

Hopefully BioChem has some usefulness.

 

[RisingSun]

I guess to each his own, but personally I found O-chem to be the most engaging class I have taken among the prerequisites (and mabye my favorite of all undergrad classes). Synthesis was like a puzzle - I liked being giving a starting material and a final product and having to synthesize it. I guess that's why I am loving Biochem right now - enzyme-catalyzed reactions are cool, and almost all seem to be nucleophilic attacks on carbonyl, so if you plan on taking Biochem, learn acid/base-catalyzed attacks on carbonyl groups well. I can't imagine not having a good grasp on organic chemistry and trying to tackle biochem. My biochem teacher is crazy hard, though, and loves o-chem and medicinal chemistry, so we end up spending a lot of time on reaction mechanisms.

I liked using NMR and IR in o-chem lab, too, but it does get a bit tedious, I agree.

Good luck!

RisingSun

 

[stiffany]

Yea, I have to agree with the poster who said s/he loved orgo...I personally wouldn't go that far, but I'll take mass spec/ir/nmr questions over memorizing mechanisms over and over again any day.

As an FYI (if this isn't forbidden as part of your IR hmwrk, which it was for mine), there are tons of resources online that will remind you about exactly how to go about reviewing these spectra. There are also huge databases that just list the spectra of different molecules (or examples of functional groups) for you, but using those probably isn't a great way to determine whether or not you know your stuff!

Good luck regardless...just think, we've survived Orgo I and only have, what, 10 weeks left of orgo II before orgo goes away forever? (well after the MCAT anyway)...

 

[omniatlas]

Do you guys know how much of O-Chem II will be on the MCAT?

I'm trying to prepare for the August MCAT without taking part II...I'll be learning from EK, feasible?

 

[blee]

Orgo I & II were absolutely my favorite science classes. I love the combination of memorization and reasoning, the puzzles of synthesis and spectroscopy, and the real-world ramifications of the material. Of all the pre-reqs, they were also the hardest by a good amount...but the pain was worth it. 🙂

As for the MCAT, the Biological Sciences section does have a decent amount of organic. The material is from anywhere throughout the two semesters; in fact, when I took the test last April, one of the passages included a reaction that we covered two weeks later in class. Thankfully, I was able to use everything else to pull together a decent showing in the passage. (So I think, anyway...)

Unless you are unusually dedicated and have access to faculty, you will not be successful studying orgo II out of the EK book! At the very least, you should use a regular textbook and go through the material carefully. I would personally wait until you have taken both semesters of orgo, or are at least mostly through second semester, before taking the MCAT. Otherwise, you are going into the test with the knowledge that you have already given up points.

 

[omniatlas]

I have about 20+ weeks to study for the MCAT -- I'll be focusing specifically on Verbel and O-Chem until May; then spread out my studying with the other sciences. I'm going to try and follow the semester class O-Chem II syllabus; but isn't the O-Chem on the MCAT only tested on a superficial level? Theres another thread going on the MCAT forum advising NOT to read the Campbell book for the biology section because it will just complicate things. Perhaps it is a little different for the physical science section.

Orgo I & II were absolutely my favorite science classes. I love the combination of memorization and reasoning, the puzzles of synthesis and spectroscopy, and the real-world ramifications of the material. Of all the pre-reqs, they were also the hardest by a good amount...but the pain was worth it. 🙂

As for the MCAT, the Biological Sciences section does have a decent amount of organic. The material is from anywhere throughout the two semesters; in fact, when I took the test last April, one of the passages included a reaction that we covered two weeks later in class. Thankfully, I was able to use everything else to pull together a decent showing in the passage. (So I think, anyway...)

Unless you are unusually dedicated and have access to faculty, you will not be successful studying orgo II out of the EK book! At the very least, you should use a regular textbook and go through the material carefully. I would personally wait until you have taken both semesters of orgo, or are at least mostly through second semester, before taking the MCAT. Otherwise, you are going into the test with the knowledge that you have already given up points.

 

[blee]

I used the EK bio book to prepare, but not before I had already taken the class and studied the material (both in lecture and in Campbell) extensively. The EK book was a big part of my bio score, but it was a good REVIEW book -- not a primary source by any means! In fact, when I encountered an area that was not covered to sufficient depth in my bio class, I had to put down EK and go to Campbell for one or two chapters. Only then could I go back to EK, study off of their condensed material, and do well in practice tests. There was one section where I did not do this, relying only on EK for study material. Can you guess what happened when I encountered a passage on that same topic on the test? 😱

In that respect, studying orgo should not be different. Orgo is not represented superficially in the MCAT; there is certainly less of it than bio, but what material is there will not be simpler or less complicated than in any other subject. On my form, the questions ranged from simple knowledge-based questions regarding functional groups or IR peaks (one of which I know I answered wrong, arrrrgh) to full-on analysis of synthetic pathways and reaction mechanisms.

Again, the BS section of my MCAT had less orgo than bio -- perhaps 70/30, 65/35, or thereabouts on my particular form. But if you only really know half of orgo, then you're basically walking in with a 15-20% handicap before you even bubble in your name. That's pretty huge.

 

[ShyRem]

Each MCAT test is different. My BS on the MCAT had about half Ochem.

 

[Dave_D]

Each MCAT test is different. My BS on the MCAT had about half Ochem.

Really Shy? I'm kind of surprised by that since at least the last few years they've been shooting for 35% orgo. What I saw on mine (April 05) was that quite a few of the biology questions would show an organic molecule or mention it but it really had nothing to do with the question.(It was there just to get people to panic and say "Oh no, organic")

 

[omniatlas]

Really Shy? I'm kind of surprised by that since at least the last few years they've been shooting for 35% orgo. What I saw on mine (April 05) was that quite a few of the biology questions would show an organic molecule or mention it but it really had nothing to do with the question.(It was there just to get people to panic and say "Oh no, organic")

So anyone here done well only taking half a year of o-chem, or even no o-chem? Is it possible with the right motivation & determination? Or do you all recommend not to take the MCAT without finishing the part 2 pre-requisite?

If I don't I'll be backed up one more year before medschool, and I'm already late in the game (turning 25 this year and feeling OLD).

 

[QofQuimica]

Each MCAT test is different. My BS on the MCAT had about half Ochem.

Mine did, too. I took the test in Aug. 2004.

omni, 25 is very young for this forum. You barely even qualify as being a non-trad. 😉 Many of us are in our thirties, and a few people are even in their 40s. My advice is that you finish all of the pre-reqs before attempting the MCAT. You want to do the best you are possibly capable of doing, and you have to realize that you are competing with other people who have not only finished all of the pre-reqs, but have studied their butts off in a test prep course as well. So you don't want to put yourself at any disadvantage like this if you don't have to, because that year you "save" by taking the test without proper preparation might be the same year that you later have to "waste" by studying to re-take the MCAT, this time WITH proper preparation.

 

[Dave_D]

So anyone here done well only taking half a year of o-chem, or even no o-chem? Is it possible with the right motivation & determination? Or do you all recommend not to take the MCAT without finishing the part 2 pre-requisite?

If I don't I'll be backed up one more year before medschool, and I'm already late in the game (turning 25 this year and feeling OLD).

Well I took it with only half a year of Orgo and I went to 11 😀 Still I'd take Q's advice. You're kind of young for a non trad, I'm not(turning 35 this year) so my time line was a little more restricted than yours.(Of course given how my app for 2006 went I could have just waited until April 2006 for the MCAT since at this point I'm more likely to get in for Fall 2007.)

 

[emgirl]

So anyone here done well only taking half a year of o-chem, or even no o-chem? Is it possible with the right motivation & determination? Or do you all recommend not to take the MCAT without finishing the part 2 pre-requisite?

If I don't I'll be backed up one more year before medschool, and I'm already late in the game (turning 25 this year and feeling OLD).

I'm in the same boat as you, I'll be taking the MCAT a little into my 3rd quarter of Ochem. My school offers the condensed version of a year of ochem in the summer, which I'm not taking! and I'm going to try and audit it before I take it during the school year so that i will have been exposed to it all at least once. but yeah, what can you do? i too do not want to put off my app for another year just to wait to take the last quarter of ochem before the MCAT. You might want to try to audit the second sem if at all possible. That said, I know lots of people that have done fine on the mcat w/o the second semester- obviously it's not ideal, and granted they were smart people anyway, but you can prob do it if you work hard and can teach yourself.

 

[omniatlas]

well guys and gals, thanks for the optimism. For those that did extremely well on the biological science w/o completing o-chem and/or didn't take it at all, are you geniuses? 🙂 the reason I ask is b/c I personally know someone who scored a 38 on the MCAT and he barely touched his books (he was also on a full scholarship to harvard if that means anything) -- some people just get it...some people like me, have to work extremely hard, *just* to get it.

the other reason i wanted to take it this august was b/c they are totally revamping the MCAT for next year (computer based, 33% less questions, etc.) and I don't know how confortable I will be taking it on a computer.

i would audit the classes emgirl but I'm being pulled between pre-reqs I have to fulfill, mcat prep classes I hope to take in the summer, and a 40 hr/job. I don't even think i'll be able to fit o-chem over the summer -- condensed and a job to manage as well? that will be hell x2. 🙄

life is tough.

I'm in the same boat as you, I'll be taking the MCAT a little into my 3rd quarter of Ochem. My school offers the condensed version of a year of ochem in the summer, which I'm not taking! and I'm going to try and audit it before I take it during the school year so that i will have been exposed to it all at least once. but yeah, what can you do? i too do not want to put off my app for another year just to wait to take the last quarter of ochem before the MCAT. You might want to try to audit the second sem if at all possible. That said, I know lots of people that have done fine on the mcat w/o the second semester- obviously it's not ideal, and granted they were smart people anyway, but you can prob do it if you work hard and can teach yourself.

 

[medworm]

Orgo I & II were absolutely my favorite science classes. I love the combination of memorization and reasoning, the puzzles of synthesis and spectroscopy, and the real-world ramifications of the material. .

Agreed! If you're stuck with a confusing Lab technique textbook, try Techniques in Organic Chemistry by Mohrig. It explains NMR, MS, IR, etc very well. And yes, the techniques could be on your MCAT.

I'm not a genius, but I did well in OChem b/c good text, good instructor, and a good amount of studying.

 

[VelcroSky]

I feel as though I've stepped into the twilight zone here with all these people raving about how much they love o-chem! Sheesh, what are you people nuts (affectionately)? I have to agree with the original poster's sentiments. I'm doing all the NMR and IR and mass spect. right now. Ugh. How annoying is this?

I really enjoyed gen. chem. I particularly liked all the formulas and how the more you thought about them, the more profound the implications became. But O-chem is just something that I'm enduring.

I'm pre-vet so I can't speak for all you meddies out there, but the vets that I've spoken to have informed me that once you get passed the first year in vet school, you never have to use this stuff again and therefore promptly push it out of your brain to make room for all the more 'useful' information that you need to cram in there.

 

[Gatewayhoward]

My parents tell me that the whole idea of becoming a doctor is being a scientist. So it seems we all have to learn to get into all this challenging science even though it might not directly be related to med school. I guess it's about getting into that scientist frame of mind.

 

[QofQuimica]

I feel as though I've stepped into the twilight zone here with all these people raving about how much they love o-chem! Sheesh, what are you people nuts (affectionately)?

I loved organic so much that I went to grad school in it. I'll be getting my PhD in May. 😀

 

[toothless rufus]

I was surprised: I really liked orgo! My first semester professor was absolutely the reason it was my favorite class ever! He was awesome, and really opened my eyes to acquiring a different level of reasoning, thinking, and integration of many concepts that as a package are very valuable and applicable to everything and anything! Now orgo II was the absolute antithesis from the professor on down...kind of fitting.

 

[VelcroSky]

Well, wish me luck. In 1 hour I'm going to take my test on alcohol reactions, IR, mass spec, and NMR. Ugh!

 

[Dave_D]

I feel as though I've stepped into the twilight zone here with all these people raving about how much they love o-chem! Sheesh, what are you people nuts (affectionately)? I have to agree with the original poster's sentiments. I'm doing all the NMR and IR and mass spect. right now. Ugh. How annoying is this?

Personally I prefered physics to orgo mostly because I actually like algebra/calc.(And so much of physics is applied calc. Of course if your calc is weak I pity you taking physics 😀 )

 

[lilithny]

I don't think organic is that bad. My test grade would say otherwise.