OBGYN residency from foreign medical school

[The Dragon Slayer]

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So as this application season nears its end without so much as an interview on my end, it is looking more and more likely that I will be going offshore to obtain my medical degree. I was wondering if anyone knows how competitive OBGYN residencies are in the match, especially for a student at a school located in the Caribbean or Europe? Is it a field that IMGs regularly match into? If so, how important is the USMLE in determining ones competitiveness in the match? My father obtained his medical degree at a school in the Caribbean, but went into internal medicine. Since he said that he recalls very few people in his class who went into OBGYN, I was wondering if there is anyone on this forum who has a more recent perspective on this.

 

[AttemptingScholar]

I cannot recommend this course of action. Here is the 2017 Match Summary.

OBGYN has only 1,288 positions. In 2017, it was completely filled, no room for even the SOAP. OBGYN PGY-1 has only 23 positions [Table 1]. 105 IMGs/FMGs matched to OBGYN and 0 IMG/FMGs matched to OBGYN PGY-1 [Table 12]. That means OBGYN is comprised of ~8% IMG/FMG and OBGYN PGY-1 is 0% IMG/FMG. More specifically, 64 US citizens from a non-US school matched into OBGYN [Table 2], just under 5%.

As you can see, OBGYN has no trouble filling or almost filling programs. OBGYN competitiveness is considered on the rise. Imagine going through 4 years of medical school, accruing that debt, and not being able to get a job!

Caribbean schools have a high attrition rate--many students don't finish or are forced out by the school (to keep Match numbers high, as these students don't get a chance to apply for the Match). Caribbean schools have subpar resources. Caribbean schools have a stigma. Rule of thumb says Caribbean students need about 10 extra points to match competitiveness, and it's unlikely you will obtain that considering those subpar resources.

It's possible, of course. You could beat the odds. But think of all the students in Caribbean schools. Don't you think every single one of them thought they'd beat the odds?

The problems with Caribbean schools are relatively new--they really arose in the past 10-15 years so it's likely your father does not understand how much worse things are now. The Caribbean was a valid option in the past, but it no longer is.

All applicants should apply to US schools at least twice, with a gap year in the middle to improve chances, at least once to USDO schools, before considering going abroad for medical school.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Did you apply to DO schools?

 

[gyngyn]

In the most recent available data, only 58 US IMG's were able to match into OBG. 76 apparently received interviews and did not match. We can only imagine how many received no interviews.
See page 161:
www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-IMGs-2016.pdf

 

[Goro]

So as this application season nears its end without so much as an interview on my end, it is looking more and more likely that I will be going offshore to obtain my medical degree. I was wondering if anyone knows how competitive OBGYN residencies are in the match, especially for a student at a school located in the Caribbean or Europe? Is it a field that IMGs regularly match into? If so, how important is the USMLE in determining ones competitiveness in the match? My father obtained his medical degree at a school in the Caribbean, but went into internal medicine. Since he said that he recalls very few people in his class who went into OBGYN, I was wondering if there is anyone on this forum who has a more recent perspective on this.

This give you an idea of what PDs think of IMGs in this particular field.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf tldr, the vast majhority seldom or never interview or rank IMGs.

It will behoove you to fix your application rather than roll the dice and have a <50% chance of ever being a doctor by going to a Carib school.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

Did you apply to DO schools?

Yes I applied to DO schools as well. No luck at all. This is also my second time applying.

 

[Lawpy]

Yes I applied to DO schools as well. No luck at all. This is also my second time applying.

I don't recommend going offshore. There is something in your application that is hurting your chances but we don't know what it is based on limited information you provided.

Honestly speaking, if you want to practice medicine in US, go to a US medical school.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

@gyngyn I came across a similar set of data a while back from 2013 and noticed that 78 US-IMGs matched and 99 did not. However, unlike the source you gave from 2016, this one breaks things down further and includes the applicant schools' location. On page 119 I noticed that 26/26 people from Grenada (presumably St. George's university) matched into OBGYN. Is there something I am missing here? For some reason I cannot post the link but it is from the same source as your link just from 2013.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

I don't recommend going offshore. There is something in your application that is hurting your chances but we don't know what it is based on limited information you provided.

Honestly speaking, if you want to practice medicine in US, go to a US medical school.

Oh my bad for not including metrics (wasn't the main aim of this thread). I have a 3.6 gpa, 3.45 sgpa and scores of 26, 28, 30 and 505 on the MCAT (in order). I got interviewed at 1 MD and 1 DO school the first time I applied two years ago, and got outright rejected at both schools (no waitlist)

 

[gyngyn]

@gyngyn I came across a similar set of data a while back from 2013 and noticed that 78 US-IMGs matched and 99 did not. However, unlike the source you gave from 2016, this one breaks things down further and includes the applicant schools' location. On page 119 I noticed that 26/26 people from Grenada (presumably St. George's university) matched into OBGYN. Is there something I am missing here? For some reason I cannot post the link but it is from the same source as your link just from 2013.

The NRMP has only listed the location of the medical school once (the one from 2013). The one I cited has the latest data on IMG outcomes, but lacks location, sadly. Since the Match landscape has changed (a lot) in 5 years, I went with the more recent publication.

 

[Lawpy]

Oh my bad for not including metrics (wasn't the main aim of this thread). I have a 3.6 gpa, 3.45 sgpa and scores of 26, 28, 30 and 505 on the MCAT (in order). I got interviewed at 1 MD and 1 DO school the first time I applied two years ago, and got outright rejected at both schools (no waitlist)

Hmm I think there are ways to bounce back and get into a US medical school, but perhaps that's best saved for another thread (like your chances thread for a possible reapplication).

Regarding this thread, I can only further emphasize the idea that going offshore is a bad move. Being an IMG will hurt you especially with the upcoming residency merger.

 

[Catalystik]

with shortage of OB/GYN, something like 1/3 of all uncomplicated births are now delivered by FP, RN/midwives, and similar. @gyngyn or @Catalystik may have better idea on that

My OBGYN husband estimates that of babies delivered in the USA, 50% are delivered by OBGYNs, 40% by Family Practitioners, 9% by nurse midwives, and < 1% by lay midwives. Of those delivered by OBGYNs, about 25% are "complicated" in some way.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Yes I applied to DO schools as well. No luck at all. This is also my second time applying.

Oh my bad for not including metrics (wasn't the main aim of this thread). I have a 3.6 gpa, 3.45 sgpa and scores of 26, 28, 30 and 505 on the MCAT (in order). I got interviewed at 1 MD and 1 DO school the first time I applied two years ago, and got outright rejected at both schools (no waitlist)

What was your DO list? You have something in your app that is hurting you that you can’t see.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

What was your DO list? You have something in your app that is hurting you that you can’t see.

I applied to 15 different DO schools (some overlapping) between the two cycles. I suspect it may be a poor letter of recommendation that is affecting my application negatively. I have had no institutional action taken against me, have consistent grades (no real trend), have never gotten any grade lower than a B, and don't really have any red flags to my knowledge.

 

[LizzyM]

Taking the MCAT 4 times does not engender confidence in your ability to do well on these high stakes exams. Ditto your 3.45 given the stiff competition. It is painful to face the likelihood that this dream of being a OBGYN will not come true. It would be so much more tragic if you were to do put in several years abroad only to be unable to do a residency /get a license in the US.

 

[Robin-jay]

The fact you were able to obtain interviews shows that there are some schools out there that think your metrics are fine. Considering you were even able to earn an MD interview, I think its something hidden in your app that is hurting you as well.

Maybe apply more broadly to DO schools and maybe try and sniff out a poor LOR or so.

Ask the medical schools that have rejected you specifically why they rejected you (feedback, not advice).

You should be able to go to a DO school with some application repair.

Take an SMP if all else fails.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Taking the MCAT 4 times does not engender confidence in your ability to do well on these high stakes exams. Ditto your 3.45 given the stiff competition. It is painful to face the likelihood that this dream of being a OBGYN will not come true. It would be so much more tragic if you were to do put in several years abroad only to be unable to do a residency /get a license in the US.

Very true, however with an MCAT average of a ~28 they should have at least gotten more DO interviews over two cycles. Even with 4 takes. Something is off with the app besides the numbers if they have been so unsuccessful with DO schools as well. MD was probably out from the get go and is a surprise they even got one interview.

OP you need to have someone get a fresh pair of eyes on your app, perhaps your writing is terrible (I’ve seen this happen) or it could be a bad letter like you mention and you simply need to get a different one. If you apply to 20+ DO schools you should get at least 3 or so interviews even with 4 MCAT takes so that’s why I suspect something else is off that you can’t see.

 

[Robin-jay]

Very true, however with an MCAT average of a ~28 they should have at least gotten more DO interviews over two cycles. Even with 4 takes. Something is off with the app besides the numbers if they have been so unsuccessful with DO schools as well. MD was probably out from the get go and is a surprise they even got one interview.

OP you need to have someone get a fresh pair of eyes on your app, perhaps your writing is terrible (I’ve seen this happen) or it could be a bad letter like you mention and you simply need to get a different one. If you apply to 20+ DO schools you should get at least 3 or so interviews even with 4 MCAT takes so that’s why I suspect something else is off that you can’t see.

In addition to this, the OP should also note that even some MD schools say they will only take into account your more recent/highest MCAT score.

I don't think OPs chances are anywhere near doomed for US admission (specifically DO). At least, unless they can't figure out what is wrong with their application.

What are your ECs OP?

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

ECs are basically the standard stuff. Several years of undergrad volunteering, a few months of physician shadowing, and 1 year of research during a gap year while I was completing a master's. I was also an EMT. I think these ECs are at the very least average amongst the overall applicant pool. Perhaps being a "privileged" asian male in today's affirmative action society is what is really holding me back here. I do not know what else it could be.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

ECs are basically the standard stuff. Several years of undergrad volunteering, a few months of physician shadowing, and 1 year of research during a gap year while I was completing a master's. I was also an EMT. I think these ECs are at the very least average amongst the overall applicant pool. Perhaps being a "privileged" asian male in today's affirmative action society is what is really holding me back here. I do not know what else it could be.

4 MCAT retakes and a low GPA is going to keep you from MD, period. Those same issues shouldn’t be keeping you from DO and it isn’t the fact you are a “privileged Asian male.” I suspect that your DO school list is full of “reach” schools or that there is a serious flaw in your app that you can’t see, I’m going to reiterate my advice that you have an unbiased 3rd party comb over your app. Exactly which DO schools did you apply to? What changes in your app did you make between applying?

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

4 MCAT retakes and a low GPA is going to keep you from MD, period. Those same issues shouldn’t be keeping you from DO and it isn’t the fact you are a “privileged Asian male.” I suspect that your DO school list is full of “reach” schools or that there is a serious flaw in your app that you can’t see, I’m going to reiterate my advice that you have an unbiased 3rd party comb over your app. Exactly which DO schools did you apply to? What changes in your app did you make between applying?

I got a masters degree, took the new MCAT, and completed some research. The osteopathic schools I applied to were Touro (NY and NV), Philadelphia, A.T still, rocky vista, west virginia, Arizona, NY Institute of Technology, Edward Via, Marian, Lake Erie, Kansas City, Nova Southeastern, and a few others. I do not think these should be reach schools by any stretch of the imagination being that my gpa and mcat scored are above the averages for literally every one of these schools.

 

[begoood95]

Just to reiterate what I think is very important advice in this thread, OP, I think you should have someone look over your application in its entirety. Maybe use AMCAS' online advisors or SDN's, maybe make another thread with the explicit purpose of getting some extra eyes on your app. Your stats seem par for the course for DO, much to your dismay I know. Heed everyone's advice here; the Caribbean route is one filled to the brim with risk. You could be one of those successful graduates, though, statistically, you're much more likely not to be. That's not an insult, it's simply the nature of that route.

I think you would be much better off with some introspection, new eyes on your app, and another round of DO applications. Do ask the schools from which you were rejected why they made that decision; perhaps they'll reveal the red flag, if there is one (though the fact that you got an MD interview, to me, lessens the likelihood of such a crux). Good luck!

"The path to becoming a physician is a marathon, not a sprint." -a SDN advisor

 

[Osminog]

1) Medical school is highly competitive; DO has a higher applicant per matriculant ratio than MD. Assuming there is a serious flaw in the OPs app may just competition.

Overall, good post.

Quick correction: The difference between MD and DO overall applicant-to-matriculant ratios has little to do with their respective levels of competitiveness. Rather, it has to do with the preferences of the different applicant pools. Applicants often use DO schools as backups; if accepted into an MD program, they abandon all DO acceptances (and thereby raise the DO applicant-to-matriculant ratio and lower the MD applicant-to-matriculant ratio).

 

[ndafife]

Overall, good post.

Quick correction: The difference between MD and DO overall applicant-to-matriculant ratios has little to do with their respective levels of competitiveness. Rather, it has to do with the preferences of the different applicant pools. Applicants often use DO schools as backups; if accepted into an MD program, they abandon all DO acceptances (and thereby raise the DO applicant-to-matriculant ratio and lower the MD applicant-to-matriculant ratio).

The semantics don't change the overall point, which is that DO is still very competitive

 

[Osminog]

The semantics don't change the overall point, which is that DO is still very competitive

Not semantics. Statistics.

I agree that DO admissions is very competitive.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Overall, good post.

Quick correction: The difference between MD and DO overall applicant-to-matriculant ratios has little to do with their respective levels of competitiveness. Rather, it has to do with the preferences of the different applicant pools. Applicants often use DO schools as backups; if accepted into an MD program, they abandon all DO acceptances (and thereby raise the DO applicant-to-matriculant ratio and lower the MD applicant-to-matriculant ratio).

That wouldn’t impact the applicant/matriculation ratio on either side... the difference has to do with the fact that people with very poor stats apply to DO schools as a medical school hail mary. It inflated the number of applicants.

People accepting seats or declining seats would not change the number of applicants and it also doesn’t affect the number of matriculated students.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

Big question I still have never been able to find an answer to anywhere. If DO schools are so competitive, why is the average GPAs and MCATs of matriculants as low as 2.8 and 21 respectively at some schools?

 

[ndafife]

Big question I still have never been able to find an answer to anywhere. If DO schools are so competitive, why is the average GPAs and MCATs of matriculants as low as 2.8 and 21 respectively at some schools?

Thousands of applicants for ~200 spots. Is it really that hard to understand?

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

Thousands of applicants for ~200 spots. Is it really that hard to understand?

No that part I get. But why do they keep standards so low if there are so many people trying to get those spots?

 

[ndafife]

No that part I get. But why do they keep standards so low if there are so many people trying to get those spots?

There is more to an application and a school than 2 numbers. Some schools have a mission and it's generally more important for them to find students that fit that mission than the ones with the highest stats.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

There is more to an application and a school than 2 numbers. Some schools have a mission and it's generally more important for them to find students that fit that mission than the ones with the highest stats.

There is a limit no? Wouldn’t you say that admitting people with GPAs less than 3.0 and MCATs of less than 22 is a potential danger to future patients?

 

[ndafife]

There is a limit no? Wouldn’t you say that admitting people with GPAs less than 3.0 and MCATs of less than 22 is a potential danger to future patients?

Nope. Not at all. Those are numbers to help assess whether you can handle the rigor of medical school. They serve no purpose in future patient care.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

Nope. Not at all. Those are numbers to help assess whether you can handle the rigor of medical school. They serve no purpose in future patient care.

Well don’t those numbers indicate that these people will not be able to handle the rigors of medical school then?

While I applied to DO schools, I am still somewhat turned off to the idea of attending one for the same reason I have reservations about going to an offshore school. They openly accept a lower quality applicant, and with that comes a stigma to anyone who graduates from their program.

 

[sss1219]

While I applied to DO schools, I am still somewhat turned off to the idea of attending one for the same reason I have reservations about going to an offshore school. They openly accept a lower quality applicant, and with that comes a stigma to anyone who graduates from their program.

Then you should not have applied

 

[Osminog]

That wouldn’t impact the applicant/matriculation ratio on either side... the difference has to do with the fact that people with very poor stats apply to DO schools as a medical school hail mary. It inflated the number of applicants.

If you look at the actual data, the reality is the exact opposite of what you're claiming:

MD applicants: 504.7 avg MCAT (SD of 9.4); 3.56 avg GPA (SD = 0.34).
For MD matriculants: 510.4 average MCAT (~0.6 SDs above applicant avg); 3.71 GPA average (~0.4 SDs above applicant avg).

DO applicants: 500.0 avg MCAT (SD = 7.69); 3.47 avg GPA (SD = 0.29).
For DO matriculants: 502.2 MCAT (~0.3 SDs above applicant avg); 3.56 GPA (~0.3 SDs above applicant avg)

The MCAT/GPA gap between the average MD applicant and average MD matriculant is greater than that between the average DO applicant and average DO matriculant. Therefore, the "hail maries" you're talking about are more likely take place in the MD process.

People accepting seats or declining seats would not change the number of applicants and it also doesn’t affect the number of matriculated students

If someone applies to MD and DO, gets into an MD program, and chooses to attend the MD program, then he counts as a DO applicant, an MD applicant, and an MD matriculant. For the DO tally, this individual adds 1 to the "applicant" tally and 0 to the "matriculant tally" (1:0). For MD, this individual adds 1 to both tallies (1:1). This widens the gap between the DO and MD applicant/matriculant ratios, but it doesn't reflect competitiveness of either application process.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

Then you should not have applied

I never said I wouldn’t have attended one

But since the topic of this thread has to do with foreign medical schools, it is surprising to me the stance that many seem to have against foreign medical schools (particularly those in the caribbean) when many of them have higher acceptance standards than many DO schools. Both are still somewhat suboptimal options, but this dichotomy has never made much sense to me

 

[Osminog]

Therefore, there is about the same level of competitiveness, that is number of applicants to available seats.

The DO 2012 survey found about 70% of applicants applied to both US MD and DO schools while more recent survey data is showing that this number is decreasing.

If you accept the premise that applicants almost always prefer MD over DO (with some individual exceptions), and the premise that a noteworthy portion of those 70% (or maybe 50-60% now) of applicants you bring up were accepted to both MD and DO schools, then you can safely conclude that the ratio of applicants to available seats is NOT an accurate way of determining level of competitiveness for admission into DO programs. You have to take into consideration that available DO seats will almost always be abandoned if one is able to matriculate into an MD program, but that the opposite case very rarely happens.

I think those are reasonable premises, don't you?

 

[dr.grenouille]

I never said I wouldn’t have attended one

But since the topic of this thread has to do with foreign medical schools, it is surprising to me the stance that many seem to have against foreign medical schools (particularly those in the caribbean) when many of them have higher acceptance standards than many DO schools. Both are still somewhat suboptimal options, but this dichotomy has never made much sense to me

You really think they have higher acceptance standards? It doesn’t get much lower than needing a pulse and a checkbook. Maybe your cocky attitude and desire to have the MD title comes through in your application. Sounds like a pretty obvious red flag to me!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

why is the average GPAs and MCATs of matriculants as low as 2.8 and 21 respectively at some schools?

Not a single school even comes close to this. This is the bare minimum to get a secondary at some schools but that is not the same as an average.

No that part I get. But why do they keep standards so low if there are so many people trying to get those spots?

Because no school has stats that low. None. I have no idea where you got that from.

There is a limit no? Wouldn’t you say that admitting people with GPAs less than 3.0 and MCATs of less than 22 is a potential danger to future patients?

Yes I would.

Nope. Not at all. Those are numbers to help assess whether you can handle the rigor of medical school. They serve no purpose in future patient care.

Wrong. Medicine is largely an academic affair, and if you can’t hit a certain threshold then you have no business in medical school because you most likely won’t make it. And as for patient care trust me, the the person who has multiple failures in medical school, has to retake the boards, and barely scrapes through clinical years and into a bottom of the barrel residency is not someone I would trust my health, or my families health, with.

If someone applies to MD and DO, gets into an MD program, and chooses to attend the MD program, then he counts as a DO applicant

Yes, but that has ZERO impact on the simple ratio of applicants to matriculate...

an MD applicant, and an MD matriculant.

Yes, still doesn’t impact the number o applicants to matriculants.

For the DO tally, this individual adds 1 to the "applicant" tally and 0 to the "matriculant tally" (1:0). For MD, this individual adds 1 to both tallies (1:1). This widens the gap between the DO and MD applicant/matriculant ratios, but it doesn't reflect competitiveness of either application process.

You are over complicating this whole process. The number of applicants is not affected by if people reject an acceptance, the number of matriculants is similarly unaffected. If we were talking about the ratio of acceptances to matriculations then yes you would be correct but turning down an offer does not affect the applicant/matriculants ratio.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

Not a single school even comes close to this. This is the bare minimum to get a secondary at some schools but that is not the same as an average.



Because no school has stats that low. None. I have no idea where you got that from.



Yes I would.



Wrong. Medicine is largely an academic affair, and if you can’t hit a certain threshold then you have no business in medical school because you most likely won’t make it. And as for patient care trust me, the the person who has multiple failures in medical school, has to retake the boards, and barely scrapes through clinical years and into a bottom of the barrel residency is not someone I would trust my health, or my families health, with.



Yes, but that has ZERO impact on the simple ratio of applicants to matriculate...



Yes, still doesn’t impact the number o applicants to matriculants.



You are over complicating this whole process. The number of applicants is not affected by if people reject an acceptance, the number of matriculants is similarly unaffected. If we were talking about the ratio of acceptances to matriculations then yes you would be correct but turning down an offer does not affect the applicant/matriculants ratio.

Here you go. Some of these averages are absolutely abysmal.

http://medical-schools.startclass.com/saved_search/DO-Programs

 

[sss1219]

Here you go. Some of these averages are absolutely abysmal.

http://medical-schools.startclass.com/saved_search/DO-Programs

That is a unreliable website and you would know this if you looked up class profiles on a single school. For example, DMU does not have a 2.8 average GPA, but a 3.54/507 from their official website. Similarly, Touro CA has a 3.49/507 average, not a 2.8/27 as this website implies (although the MCAT is similar tbf)

GPA/MCAT reporting are school specific and not regulated so yes even these official numbers can beoff, but I can assure you that the averages on the startclass website are not represented well at all.

 

[Osminog]

You are over complicating this whole process. The number of applicants is not affected by if people reject an acceptance, the number of matriculants is similarly unaffected. If we were talking about the ratio of acceptances to matriculations then yes you would be correct but turning down an offer does not affect the applicant/matriculants ratio.

The bottom line is that applicant/matriculant ratio doesn't necessarily reflect competitiveness of the process. Acceptance rate, on the other hand, does. Can we just agree on that?

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

That is a unreliable website and you would know this if you looked up class profiles on a single school. For example, DMU does not have a 2.8 average GPA, but a 3.54/507 from their official website. Similarly, Touro CA has a 3.49/507 average, not a 2.8/27 as this website implies (although the MCAT is similar tbf)

GPA/MCAT reporting are school specific and not regulated so yes even these official numbers can beoff, but I can assure you that the averages on the startclass website are not represented well at all.

The Princeton review cites similar numbers for each school. Not to mention these schools can fudge the truth if they feel inclined to. Seriously though, I could have posted any source and you would have still had an issue with it.

 

[21Rush12]

Literally no Caribbean school has higher matriculant stats than a DO school.

They may take “lower standard” applicants, but >90% of them graduate and match residencies. The same can’t be said for offshore schools.

 

[sss1219]

The Princeton review cites similar numbers for each school. Not to mention these schools can fudge the truth if they feel inclined to. Seriously though, I could have posted any source and you would have still had an issue with it.

Yup, because the only source one should look at when constructing a school list are the official school websites. Princeton Review is a respectable company but like it or not, those self-reported numbers are what a school wants to see in its student body. It would be poor practice to think otherwise unless you hear different info from an actual dean.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

Literally no Caribbean school has higher matriculant stats than a DO school.

They may take “lower standard” applicants, but >90% of them graduate and match residencies. The same can’t be said for offshore schools.

Last time I checked, St. George’s university had a 3.3GPA and 25 MCAT average. I believe Ross is similar. This is higher than some DO school averages.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Here you go. Some of these averages are absolutely abysmal.

http://medical-schools.startclass.com/saved_search/DO-Programs

Startclass is a joke.... what they have listed is generally the required minimums to be considered. Having a 2.8 minimum for a secondary application is not the same as having an average of 2.8. I’m assuming CARS didn’t go so well...

The Princeton review cites similar numbers for each school. Not to mention these schools can fudge the truth if they feel inclined to. Seriously though, I could have posted any source and you would have still had an issue with it.

Because your “sources” are straight garbage... not a single DO schools has statistics that low. It’s really easy to confirm this actually, all you have to do is visit a school website or email admissions and ask for it.

Last time I checked, St. George’s university had a 3.3GPA and 25 MCAT average. I believe Ross is similar. This is higher than some DO school averages.

No they aren’t.... unless ICOM ends up with averages that low then I know of no DO school that has both a 3.3 gpa average and a 500 MCAT. Some of the most rural or newest schools might have one or the other but not together.

 

[21Rush12]

If these advertised numbers are good enough to convince you that the best and brightest are going Caribbean over DO, proceed and let us know how it works out.

 

[ndafife]

Wrong. Medicine is largely an academic affair, and if you can’t hit a certain threshold then you have no business in medical school because you most likely won’t make it. And as for patient care trust me, the the person who has multiple failures in medical school, has to retake the boards, and barely scrapes through clinical years and into a bottom of the barrel residency is not someone I would trust my health, or my families health, with.

So do you ask doctors about their MCAT and GPA? Because that is the point that I was replying to.
Yeah low MCAT/GPA are associated with higher risk of failures, but in and of itself neither number matters at all from the moment medical school starts.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

So do you ask doctors about their MCAT and GPA? Because that is the point that I was replying to.
Yeah low MCAT/GPA are associated with higher risk of failures, but in and of itself neither number matters at all from the moment medical school starts.

Then why even bother with setting undergraduate academic standards at all? Why not just open a medical school with as many spots as possible since anyone who has even the smallest desire to practice medicine is suited to do so, regardless of their academic credentials (according to you).