OBGYN residency from foreign medical school

[ndafife]

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Then why even bother with setting undergraduate academic standards at all? Why not just open a medical school with as many spots as possible since anyone who has even the smallest desire to practice medicine is suited to so, regardless of their academic credentials (according to you).

I see no point continuing this strawman argument you're starting now.

Have fun in the Caribbean, you described their business model pretty well right there.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

I see no point continuing this strawman argument you're starting now.

Have fun in the Caribbean, you described their business model pretty well right there.

You must be pretty supportive of Caribbean schools being that you think that anyone is suited to go to medical school even if they have a 2.0 gpa and 10 MCAT because, you know, "neither of these numbers matter once medical school starts." LOL

 

[getdown]

So do you ask doctors about their MCAT and GPA? Because that is the point that I was replying to.
Yeah low MCAT/GPA are associated with higher risk of failures, but in and of itself neither number matters at all from the moment medical school starts.

No one asks actual doctors their GPA/MCAT because of 2 things:
1. it's automatically assumed that due to the high standards to be accepted into a US medical school the accepted student has achieved a satisfactory GPA and MCAT. If we were to lower the bar and accept anyone then people would probably start asking these questions. Just as how we don't care about your STEP scores or med school grades once offered an interview for residency. You passed the weed out round and are assumed to be academically capable to handle the level of knowledge needed to be successful in residency.
2. GPA and MCAT, though are good predictors of academic success in med school and ability to pass the boards, are irrelevant to the actual care of patients. Sure you're smart but if you can't handle the workload or are lazy it doesn't mean jack. I know of a Harvard grad and UCLA grad asked to change residencies as they couldn't cut it. No doubt they probably had very high STEP scores.

 

[ndafife]

No one asks actual doctors their GPA/MCAT because of 2 things:
1. it's automatically assumed that due to the high standards to be accepted into a US medical school the accepted student has achieved a satisfactory GPA and MCAT. If we were to lower the bar and accept anyone then people would probably start asking these questions. Just as how we don't care about your STEP scores or med school grades once offered an interview for residency. You passed the weed out round and are assumed to be academically capable to handle the level of knowledge needed to be successful in residency.
2. GPA and MCAT, though are good predictors of academic success in med school and ability to pass the boards, are irrelevant to the actual care of patients. Sure you're smart but if you can't handle the workload or are lazy it doesn't mean jack. I know of a Harvard grad and UCLA grad asked to change residencies as they couldn't cut it. No doubt they probably had very high STEP scores.

#2 summed up what I've been trying to say pretty perfectly.

 

[gyngyn]

Let's keep it professional, folks.

 

[onyxbell]

Dumpster fire sense tingling.

Back on track, OP you are too preoccupied with stats, both the applicants' and schools'. True stats play a large part but they are not everything. Judging from your narrative, unless you change your perceptions on healthcare in general, you won't get any better outcome no matter your re-app strategy. You can try doing nothing (and probably going offshore, along with some sunscreen packs), or you can try doing something (that starts with changing your outlook).

 

[getdown]

This whole argument about who has better stats is pointless. Ultimately boils down to this:

FACT #1. if you want to practice medicine in the US you have to complete a residency in the US
FACT #2. US MD and DO schools have over 90% match rate of their graduating seniors into a US residency into ALL fields and subspecialties
FACT #3. IMGs and FMGs DO NOT have close to 90% match rate (you can argue what that % actually is but we can all agree it's no where near 90%) into even the least competitive specialties

Conclusion: you have a better chance to becoming a practicing physician in the US if you attend a US MD or DO school.

 

[21Rush12]

@getdown Louder for the people in the back!

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

This whole argument about who has better stats is pointless. Ultimately boils down to this:

FACT #1. if you want to practice medicine in the US you have to complete a residency in the US
FACT #2. US MD and DO schools have over 90% match rate of their graduating seniors into a US residency into ALL fields and subspecialties
FACT #3. IMGs and FMGs DO NOT have close to 90% match rate (you can argue what that % actually is but we can all agree it's no where near 90%) into even the least competitive specialties

Conclusion: you have a better chance to becoming a practicing physician in the US if you attend a US MD or DO school.

Have you even read the other posts? Nobody is even arguing about this.

Don't worry though. I am not seriously looking to go to a Caribbean medical school. Not for the reasons listed here and elsewhere on this forum, but because I do not want to spend years of my living in a sweltering, third world wasteland. Even if I were guaranteed to match into any specialty/residency of my choosing, I am not sure putting up with having to live in a place like Dominica or Grenada would make it worth it. Reading forums about people who went to medical school there (including my own father's input), life really sounds comparable to being incarcerated.

 

[getdown]

Have you even read the other posts? Nobody is even arguing about this
Don't worry though. I am not seriously looking to go to a Caribbean medical school. Not for the reasons listed here and elsewhere on this forum, but because I do not want to spend years of my living in a sweltering, third world wasteland. Even if I were guaranteed to match into any specialty/residency of my choosing, I am not sure putting up with having to live in a place like Dominica or Grenada would make it worth it. Reading forums about people who went to medical school there (including my own father's input), life really sounds comparable to being incarcerated.

Nope, I didn't bother reading most of it. I figured it'd be the easiest way to stop the thread from going 6 pages or more. Feel free to copy and paste into any future thread asking about going international for medical school.

 

[Goro]

Nope, I didn't bother reading most of it. I figured it'd be the easiest way to stop the thread from going 6 pages or more. Feel free to copy and paste into any future thread asking about going international for medical school.

With this sage counsel, can we /thread now???

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

So do you ask doctors about their MCAT and GPA? Because that is the point that I was replying to.
Yeah low MCAT/GPA are associated with higher risk of failures, but in and of itself neither number matters at all from the moment medical school starts.

That wasn’t my point honestly, maybe I didn’t explain it well. Crappy stats generally lead to crappy medical students, and yes crappy medical students become bad doctors. Are there exceptions? Of course. But the 3.0/22 person who turns it around and doesn’t struggle in medical school or with boards is a lot more rare than SDN would make you believe. It’s not the GPA or MCAT that really matters, it’s the concept that medicine is not just an art but a science as well and academics absolutely play a role and that students who come in with very low stats tend to continue to struggle with the academic part.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

That wasn’t my point honestly, maybe I didn’t explain it well. Crappy stats generally lead to crappy medical students, and yes crappy medical students become bad doctors. Are there exceptions? Of course. But the 3.0/22 person who turns it around and doesn’t struggle in medical school or with boards is a lot more rare than SDN would make you believe. It’s not the GPA or MCAT that really matters, it’s the concept that medicine is not just an art but a science as well and academics absolutely play a role and that students who come in with very low stats tend to continue to struggle with the academic part.

People seem to like to hold onto to the notion that as soon as you start medical school it is clean slate and everyone is on the same playing field. But this is completely untrue. I would say poor study/test taking habits are about as hard to break as smoking. Consequently, weak college students make weak medical students who then either fail or take several additional years to graduate and go onto become mediocre doctors. This is part of the reason why I tend to be adamant about discouraging people with very low stats from continuing to try to go into medicine.

 

[ciestar]

People seem to like to hold onto to the notion that as soon as you start medical school it is clean slate and everyone is on the same playing field. But this is completely untrue. I would say poor study/test taking habits are about as hard to break as smoking. Consequently, weak college students make weak medical students who then either fail or take several additional years to graduate and go onto become mediocre doctors. This is part of the reason why I tend to be adamant about discouraging people with very low stats from continuing to try to go into medicine.

Well.. you’re not wrong. Those habits are very hard to break and come back to bite me now. However, even strong people stats-wise arent always strong med students (obviously, someone has to be bottom of the class)

 

[21Rush12]

People seem to like to hold onto to the notion that as soon as you start medical school it is clean slate and everyone is on the same playing field. But this is completely untrue. I would say poor study/test taking habits are about as hard to break as smoking. Consequently, weak college students make weak medical students who then either fail or take several additional years to graduate and go onto become mediocre doctors. This is part of the reason why I tend to be adamant about discouraging people with very low stats from continuing to try to go into medicine.

Let me stop you here and add a couple points:

1. Good college performance is all well and good but it’s only loosely correlated with medical school performance. Med school is harder but it’s focused. People who struggled in undergrad with subjects they weren’t interested in can be very successful medical students, because there’s no history or basket weaving.

2. I am not aware of any evidence to suggest that undergrad GPA, medical school GPA, or USMLE Scores are meaningful predictors of one’s future patient outcomes or technical skills. If you have some, please provide it because I would be really interested in reading it.

3. Failure/attrition once the hurdle of gaining admission to US MD schools is very rare. At my school the latest numbers were <2% of students not succeeding in 5 years, which accounts for research year students. As @Goro can likely corroborate, the leading cause of this is mental health issues, not academic inadequacy. Your claim that students who have lower GPAs going in are likely to fail simply isn’t accurate. The threshold of academic metrics is well higher than is required to successfully complete medical school. US MD schools don’t need to take people whose numbers indicate they may not succeed.

4. Who are you to discourage anyone from going into medicine? You are not a doctor, in medical school administration, or even accepted to a medical school at this point. You have no experience in medical education other than your own application process and no business telling anyone else what to do. I can’t tell if your attitude is to protect the world from the poor quality doctor you think comes from someone with a lower GPA, or if you’re just convincing yourself that numbers are the reason you haven’t had your own success. There is simply more to it than that, and you lack the perspective that it takes to see that once you’re in it really doesn’t matter.

 

[Goro]

Let me stop you here and add a couple points:

1. Good college performance is all well and good but it’s only loosely correlated with medical school performance. Med school is harder but it’s focused. People who struggled in undergrad with subjects they weren’t interested in can be very successful medical students, because there’s no history or basket weaving.

2. I am not aware of any evidence to suggest that undergrad GPA, medical school GPA, or USMLE Scores are meaningful predictors of one’s future patient outcomes or technical skills. If you have some, please provide it because I would be really interested in reading it.

3. Failure/attrition once the hurdle of gaining admission to US MD schools is very rare. At my school the latest numbers were <2% of students not succeeding in 5 years, which accounts for research year students. As @Goro can likely corroborate, the leading cause of this is mental health issues, not academic inadequacy. Your claim that students who have lower GPAs going in are likely to fail simply isn’t accurate. The threshold of academic metrics is well higher than is required to successfully complete medical school. US MD schools don’t need to take people whose numbers indicate they may not succeed.

4. Who are you to discourage anyone from going into medicine? You are not a doctor, in medical school administration, or even accepted to a medical school at this point. You have no experience in medical education other than your own application process and no business telling anyone else what to do. I can’t tell if your attitude is to protect the world from the poor quality doctor you think comes from someone with a lower GPA, or if you’re just convincing yourself that numbers are the reason you haven’t had your own success. There is simply more to it than that, and you lack the perspective that it takes to see that once you’re in it really doesn’t matter.

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[Lucca]

if you think the issue is with your letters then you should ask your letter writers to give you honest feedback on what they wrote or if they wrote a positive letter. Taking the MCAT 4 times and doing about the same every time is a red flag, but I dont think that alone should keep you out of all schools. Did you receive any interviews in either cycle? I agree with others saying you should get more eyes on your full app.

Dont go carib.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

if you think the issue is with your letters then you should ask your letter writers to give you honest feedback on what they wrote or if they wrote a positive letter. Taking the MCAT 4 times and doing about the same every time is a red flag, but I dont think that alone should keep you out of all schools. Did you receive any interviews in either cycle? I agree with others saying you should get more eyes on your full app.

Dont go carib.

I had 1 MD and 1 DO interview the first time I applied. I actually received a late MD II for this cycle as well a short time ago that I will schedule for next month.

 

[Goro]

I had 1 MD and 1 DO interview the first time I applied. I actually received a late MD II for this cycle as well a short time ago that I will schedule for next month.

Not gloating here, but kudos to the mods for keeping the forums clean of loose cannons.