Obtaing Residency from a UK school?

[tmman]

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How does attending a UK school affect your chances at obtaining a residency for a specialty? I cannot seem to find an answer for this. Has anyone had trouble obtaining residency because of these factors? Any further information would be very helpful!

 

[ckd816]

I don't have a ton of information for you, but here's what I know...

The major problem is that the grading scale is way different over here, so there isn't really a GPA equivalent to report when applying for residencies. They grade fairly harshly here so 60s and 70s are pretty decent grades, but they probably won't look too great to someone in the US. I've heard that here at Edinburgh they are working on making a formula to relate our scores to the US GPA system, but I don't know when it's supposed to be available. Other than that, I think you should be just as competitive as if you went to a US school.

 

[shortnsweet]

I don't have a ton of information for you, but here's what I know...

The major problem is that the grading scale is way different over here, so there isn't really a GPA equivalent to report when applying for residencies. They grade fairly harshly here so 60s and 70s are pretty decent grades, but they probably won't look too great to someone in the US. I've heard that here at Edinburgh they are working on making a formula to relate our scores to the US GPA system, but I don't know when it's supposed to be available. Other than that, I think you should be just as competitive as if you went to a US school.

You will be just as competitive for internships and residencies. ckd is right in saying the grading scale is different, but they account for this by having a letter written for you, as well as most places in the US know about the grading differences. Broadly speaking, 70s+=A. A lot of your credentials and application is based on your experiences and your recommendations.

I have also been told by a few of my own vets that in some cases they prefer UK graduates because we have so much EMS and clinical experience during school, and come out with strong Day One Skills. Moral of the story, work hard, get good grades, get lots of EMS...and you should be just fine.

 

[kakurubird]

Is it typical for American students at the UK schools to come back to the US over the summer, allowing for externships/jobs and the connections from those that would help with internships/residencies/jobs?

 

[thaowey]

just curious...for those in the UK, what is the job market like over there as a vet?

 

[shortnsweet]

Is it typical for American students at the UK schools to come back to the US over the summer, allowing for externships/jobs and the connections from those that would help with internships/residencies/jobs?

A lot of people do...especially over the summer. Glasgow has break from May until late September, so it's the perfect time to get in lots of experience! Our spring break is 4-5 weeks, so a lot of people do EMS in the UK or in Europe then. I'm only in 3rd year, and I already have 12 weeks of pre-clinical, and 10 weeks of clinical (out of 26 required) 🙂.

The job market over here is sort of on the same page as in the US or Australia. Increasing numbers of graduates, and not so many vets retiring. But most recent grads I know have all managed to find jobs or internships so far. England may be different, but Scotland it is really hard to find a solely equine practice, most go into mixed.

 

[lei325]

I'll echo what shortandsweet said about coming home for summer. I'm planning on coming home for summer, but only for 2 weeks since we're required to do 6 weeks of EMS (clinical placement) in the UK (and I'm going to the Olympics in August!). On top of that, we're only allowed to do up to 12 weeks of clinical placements (or 10, I can't remember at the moment) internationally, so I'm saving those up to do 5th year externships at home.

 

[bigkittinteef]

A lot of people do...especially over the summer. Glasgow has break from May until late September, so it's the perfect time to get in lots of experience! Our spring break is 4-5 weeks, so a lot of people do EMS in the UK or in Europe then. I'm only in 3rd year, and I already have 12 weeks of pre-clinical, and 10 weeks of clinical (out of 26 required) 🙂.

The job market over here is sort of on the same page as in the US or Australia. Increasing numbers of graduates, and not so many vets retiring. But most recent grads I know have all managed to find jobs or internships so far. England may be different, but Scotland it is really hard to find a solely equine practice, most go into mixed.

Is it difficult to obtain resident status in the UK post graduation? I'm from the US and I really like the idea of staying in the UK, possibly for good. It would be wonderful if someone had any advice on this!

 

[shortnsweet]

Is it difficult to obtain resident status in the UK post graduation? I'm from the US and I really like the idea of staying in the UK, possibly for good. It would be wonderful if someone had any advice on this!

I've though about this many times (Or going back to Australia for an internship) 🙂. I don't think it is that hard to get a working visa or residency...but most people I know right now that have them in Glasgow are also dependents on their sig other who is studying. My cousin who is not a vet went to LSE and never went home, got married, had children...so staying in the UK is very possible!!!

Gotta love the degree that let's you work in the whole commonwealth!!

And really Lei? I had no idea RVC limited your international EMS. Bummer. I mean I definitely want to do work here, but I also want to go home and to Aussie. Plus we have so many people here go to places like Malta, Cyprus, Egypt, SA etc for spay/neuter clinics? Anyways, what events are you going to for the Olympics? I'll be there for Eventing!!!😀

 

[bigkittinteef]

I've though about this many times (Or going back to Australia for an internship) 🙂. I don't think it is that hard to get a working visa or residency...but most people I know right now that have them in Glasgow are also dependents on their sig other who is studying. My cousin who is not a vet went to LSE and never went home, got married, had children...so staying in the UK is very possible!!!

Gotta love the degree that let's you work in the whole commonwealth!!

And really Lei? I had no idea RVC limited your international EMS. Bummer. I mean I definitely want to do work here, but I also want to go home and to Aussie. Plus we have so many people here go to places like Malta, Cyprus, Egypt, SA etc for spay/neuter clinics? Anyways, what events are you going to for the Olympics? I'll be there for Eventing!!!😀

Thanks for the info!

 

[heylodeb]

Purely for educational interest: what does EMS stand for? I originally thought you were referring to emergency medicine of some sort but it sounds like it might be something different from reading other posts.

 

[shortnsweet]

Purely for educational interest: what does EMS stand for? I originally thought you were referring to emergency medicine of some sort but it sounds like it might be something different from reading other posts.

Oops...I sometimes forget that isn't in the US...Sorry!!

It stands for Extra-Mural Studies. The RCVS requires all UK students to complete extra pre-clinical and clinical "externships" at different practices etc over breaks to aid in our learning/practice of clinical skills. The Pre-Clinical (think Animal Husbandry) used to include 2 weeks lambing, 2 weeks dairy, 2 weeks small, 2 weeks equine, and then 4 weeks of whatever you want(now I think it's 12 of whatever you want). Clinical is actual vet work. We have to keep case logs and write reflections etc in our Portfolios, which the RCVS can request at any time to make sure we are getting all of our Day 1 skills practice, as well as establishing good relationships with potential employers.

 

[ckd816]

The Pre-Clinical (think Animal Husbandry) used to include 2 weeks lambing, 2 weeks dairy, 2 weeks small, 2 weeks equine, and then 4 weeks of whatever you want(now I think it's 12 of whatever you want).

At Edinburgh it's 2 weeks of lambing (1 week of which must be in the UK), 2 weeks dairy (1 week of which must be with UK dairy cattle), 1 week pigs, 1 week poultry, 1 week cats and dogs, 2 weeks horses, 1 week small mammals (rabbits, guinea pigs, etc.), 2 weeks free choice and a visit to a livestock market. 10 out of 12 weeks can be done outside of the UK. I'm not sure on the breakdown for clinical EMS, but I do know it's 26 weeks total and most can be done outside the UK as well.

 

[shortnsweet]

At Edinburgh it's 2 weeks of lambing (1 week of which must be in the UK), 2 weeks dairy (1 week of which must be with UK dairy cattle), 1 week pigs, 1 week poultry, 1 week cats and dogs, 2 weeks horses, 1 week small mammals (rabbits, guinea pigs, etc.), 2 weeks free choice and a visit to a livestock market. 10 out of 12 weeks can be done outside of the UK. I'm not sure on the breakdown for clinical EMS, but I do know it's 26 weeks total and most can be done outside the UK as well.

Huh...we used to have two weeks "intensive" too..like pigs poultry or fish, but my first year the RCVS got rid of it due to lack of farms and pig public safety. . And then as of last year, I know the first years had most requirements done away with, just that they had 12 weeks to do...I assumed that was nation wide. Interesting differences 🙂

 

[sunshinevet]

We do EMS too. Do you guys mind doing EMS? The majority of students we have coming over here want to be smallies vets, and we have the occassional one which is super militant about not wanting to do farm prac...

BTW, put your hand up if you HATE writing the damn EMS reports. I LOVE farm prac - ive had some amazing experiences, but gosh i really really hate writing the reports!!!

 

[vkajko]

Does anyone know anything about the shelters needing vets? I know over in the US its usually easier to get a job in shelter medicine. But what about in the UK specifically Glasgow or Edinburgh. I am really hoping to stay in the UK after school, but I really want to do shelter medicine.

 

[FinleyMonkey]

I'm not sure on the breakdown for clinical EMS, but I do know it's 26 weeks total and most can be done outside the UK as well.

Chiming in to say 26 weeks total, not sure either how much has to be done in the UK but I don't know if it's much, if any. They suggest you do different animals but there is no set schedule or must do's. I think one week has to be ICU, which they have scheduled for the school hospital. And an interesting fact I just learned, we have student projects to be completed between 3rd and the beginning of 5th (yeah, like I'm going to even think about a project during pharm) that counts towards 6 weeks clinical EMS.

And yes, the best part about getting to third year was no more EMS reports 🙂

And yes, I talked to a Glasgow vet student last year who was a first year who informed me they don't even have to do a set number a weeks with any specific species. Let's just say I was super jealous. Although, I did discover a love for pigs that would have otherwise gone unnoticed.

 

[bigkittinteef]

Does anyone know anything about the shelters needing vets? I know over in the US its usually easier to get a job in shelter medicine. But what about in the UK specifically Glasgow or Edinburgh. I am really hoping to stay in the UK after school, but I really want to do shelter medicine.

I am unfortunately experienced in US shelter medicine. I almost gave up on veterinary science because of it. Yes there are a lot of opportunities in shelters in the US but treatment of animals in shelters is absolutely terrible. most of the time the vets ended up euthanizing unwanted or injured pets (often at their owner's hand). The worst was putting down 6-20 healthy kittens everyday because they were dropped off before the age of 8 weeks (it's the law here!). Spay/neuter and vaccines were the only other thing they really did. I don't mean to deter you if you understand this, because good vets are so important in shelter medicine. I just don't want you to get caught off guard if you choose to do it. I applaud your goals, they really are noble. Just stay in the UK for shelter medicine if you can. There are much stronger laws protecting animals there than here. 🙁

 

[vkajko]

I am unfortunately experienced in US shelter medicine. I almost gave up on veterinary science because of it. Yes there are a lot of opportunities in shelters in the US but treatment of animals in shelters is absolutely terrible. most of the time the vets ended up euthanizing unwanted or injured pets (often at their owner's hand). The worst was putting down 6-20 healthy kittens everyday because they were dropped off before the age of 8 weeks (it's the law here!). Spay/neuter and vaccines were the only other thing they really did. I don't mean to deter you if you understand this, because good vets are so important in shelter medicine. I just don't want you to get caught off guard if you choose to do it. I applaud your goals, they really are noble. Just stay in the UK for shelter medicine if you can. There are much stronger laws protecting animals there than here. 🙁

I volunteer in a county shelter right now so most of this stuff I know, which is probably one of the many motivating factors for me to stay in the UK. It kind of makes me sad to say it 🙁

 

[bigkittinteef]

I volunteer in a county shelter right now so most of this stuff I know, which is probably one of the many motivating factors for me to stay in the UK. It kind of makes me sad to say it 🙁

Again, I applaud you for this. You are much braver than I. I could not do it. I'd end up taking everyone home with me. 🙁