% of IMGs in given specialties

[Miklos]

---

Members don't see this ad.

So, you want to know how many IMGs make it into which specialties? The AMA, thankfully, gives us a free insight.

The following was compiled from http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/spcindx/0,,TR,00.html the FREIDA Online Specialty Training Search.

Look at the percentage of IMGs in that field for a rough measure of competitiveness. Very roughly 25% of US residents are IMGs. If the value in a given field is greater than 25%, it is "relatively" less difficult to obtain. If it is less than 25%, it is more competitive.

I've done the work below for the following residencies.

Specialty (Average percent IMG/Total number of active residents/Absolute number of IMGs (calculated)


Otolaryngology: 1.9% / 1071 / 20
Orthopaedic Surgery: 2.0% / 3024 / 60
Dermatology: 3.6% / 994 / 36
Emergency Medicine 4.4% / 3909 / 172
Urology 5.1% / 1038 / 53
Plastic Surgery: 5.8% / 556 / 32
Ophthalmology: 6.9% / 1260 / 87
Radiation-Oncology: 8.0% / 494 / 40
Neurological Surgery 9.1% / 775 / 71
Transitional Year 9.2% / 1183 / 109
Radiology-Diagnostic: 9.8% / 4044 / 396
Obstetrics & Gynecology 21.0% / 4681 / 983
Surgery General 21.5% / 7623 / 1639
Anesthesiology 26.7% / 4719 / 1260
Pediatrics: 29.5% / 7773 / 2293
Family Practice: 33.5% / 9529 / 3192
PM&R 34.9% / 1120 / 391
Neurology 38.0% / 1339 / 509
Psychiatry: 42.0% / 4522 / 1899
Internal Medicine: 48.9% / 21351 / 10441

Totals: n.a. / 81005 / 23683

[size=-2]Now for the caveats:

1) This counts ALL IMGs.

2) It counts all residents at ALL LEVELS (PGY1-PGY??) of the program. This means that it is a lagging indicator. It does not reflect the changes that have taken place since the 2003 match.

Psychiatry, for instance has gotten more competitive than the 42% figure would indicate. In the 2004 match, 62.8% of residencies were filled by US seniors alone. That does not take into account the number of past US grads, DOs, Fifth Pathways and Canadians. This means that significantly less than 37.2% (calculated by 100%-62.8%=) of 2004 PGY1 spots were filled by IMGs. The same goes for Anesthesiology which is more competitive than the 26.7% indicated above. The converse is probably true for Obstetrics & Gynecology, where US grads have been leaving the field to IMGs in increasing numbers due to concerns over malpractice.

3) If someone is interested in a particular specialty, look up the NRMP match statistics ( http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/data_tables.html )for non-US grads matching for the length of the program and try to compare it to the FREIDA data.[/size]

I welcome your comments.

Miklos

BTW, if anyone knows how to post tables using this forum, please let me know. The tab stops don't seem to translate.

 

[ys]

great post!

 

[johnny_blaze]

Wow, thanks for all the data you got. It was really helpful.

1) This counts ALL IMGs.

This is not really taking into account where a particular individual trained.
For example, wouldn’t it be “relatively” easier for a graduate from UK/AUS to have a better chance of attaining posts compared to graduates from other parts of the world? Would this not affect the figures for graduates from third world countries?

I study in England and would like to know how many British IMGs match into a particular specialty compared to those brits who were unsuccessful (say for general surgery). Does anybody know where I can find this info?

 

[BellKicker]

Miklos, very interesting!

Looking over the numbers, I few things stood out.

Is rads really that relatively IMG-friendly? 10% IMGs?

Conversely, EM has far fewer IMGs than I thought.

Then the raw numbers. I guess I never really thought about it but are there really that many IM residents compared to the other specialties? Are there more IM spots than FP, Peds and psych combined?

Anyway, great thread.

 

[BellKicker]

I study in England and would like to know how many British IMGs match into a particular specialty compared to those brits who were unsuccessful (say for general surgery). Does anybody know where I can find this info?

I doubt you'll be able to find that sort of info. At best, you'll find stats about UK-trained docs, which will include a number of USIMGs. I remember reading somewhere that 2,4% of applicants in the match trained in Ireland and GB.

I don't doubt UK docs generally do well in the match, though.

 

[erichaj]

This post is not make anyone angry. I't seems I need to say that before putting my post up.


I had a chance to visit the UK and France last Year, It was not my first visit but I got a chance to explore the country a bit more this time.

What an amazing place. I was one of the best experience I have ever had.

why would anyone want to come to US if you are living in such a nice place.
This is not to say the US is not nice. so don't get angry. I'm just saying that there is soooo much history and beauty in those areas that I can't see why anyone would want to change.

EH.

 

[Miklos]

Wow, thanks for all the data you got. It was really helpful.

This is not really taking into account where a particular individual trained.
For example, wouldn’t it be “relatively” easier for a graduate from UK/AUS to have a better chance of attaining posts compared to graduates from other parts of the world? Would this not affect the figures for graduates from third world countries?

I study in England and would like to know how many British IMGs match into a particular specialty compared to those brits who were unsuccessful (say for general surgery). Does anybody know where I can find this info?

I think that BK's right. The closest data that I have seen (for free) is the number of ECFMG certificates awarded by country graduates. For Britian that number is inconclusive, as many people with British citizenship (the way the data is tabulated attend med school in other countries. If you were to spend several hundred dollars, you could buy the info you are looking for from the AMA, but I doubt that you want it that badly.

Native English speakers generally speaking have language and to some degree cultural advantages versus those coming outside the "Anglosphere", so I would expect them to do better than equally qualified graduates from non-English speaking countries.

 

[Miklos]

Miklos, very interesting!

Looking over the numbers, I few things stood out.

Is rads really that relatively IMG-friendly? 10% IMGs?

Conversely, EM has far fewer IMGs than I thought.

Then the raw numbers. I guess I never really thought about it but are there really that many IM residents compared to the other specialties? Are there more IM spots than FP, Peds and psych combined?

Anyway, great thread.

Thanks.

Re: Rads. If you look at the datatable from the NRMP regarding last year's match http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/tables/table5_04.pdf ; it shows the number of US grads versus non-US grads matching.

For PGY1 positions in Diagnostic Radiology, 121 of 126 were US grads. For PGY2 positions (after one transitional year) 691 of 850 were US grads; so there were 159 independent applicants (including IMGs, 5th Pathway, D.O.'s, Canadians and past US grads) that gained residencies.

Re: IM positions; Last year's NRMP offered 4,751 "straight" (no prelim, no combined residencies) PGY1 positions. In addition, there are a couple hundred combined IM+other spec. residencies and 1,887 prelim IM years. Compare that to 2,864 FP, 2,261 Peds and 1,020 Psych PGY1's all "straight".

 

[Miklos]

This post is not make anyone angry. I't seems I need to say that before putting my post up.


I had a chance to visit the UK and France last Year, It was not my first visit but I got a chance to explore the country a bit more this time.

What an amazing place. I was one of the best experience I have ever had.

why would anyone want to come to US if you are living in such a nice place.
This is not to say the US is not nice. so don't get angry. I'm just saying that there is soooo much history and beauty in those areas that I can't see why anyone would want to change.

EH.

There are a number of international students and grads on this forum. Each has their own particular reasons and I'm sure that they'll be happy to post them.

IMO, Europe simply cannot compete with the opportunities offered to the motivated IMG who is willing to put in the work and come to the U.S.

 

[Sheral]

There are a number of international students and grads on this forum. Each has their own particular reasons and I'm sure that they'll be happy to post them.

IMO, Europe simply cannot compete with the opportunities offered to the motivated IMG who is willing to put in the work and come to the U.S.

Now that I've read your posts I'm very worried about my chances of getting a good residency. I go to st. matts in the caymans, and I'm been doing very well there--mostly high passing and honors grades. I'm not sure exactly what specialty I wanted to go into but I liked Gastroenterolgy,Radiology, or Plastic surgery. So basically, even if I ace the boards I'm still not considered an equal to US grads? That sucks.

Have you heard of any IMG's transferring to US schools after they take their boards? If so, does anyone know what kind of scores would be needed b/c i'm looking into transferring? and what schools would accept me?

also, do those statistics include the scramble? help!

 

[Miklos]

Now that I've read your posts I'm very worried about my chances of getting a good residency. I go to st. matts in the caymans, and I'm been doing very well there--mostly high passing and honors grades. I'm not sure exactly what specialty I wanted to go into but I liked Gastroenterolgy,Radiology, or Plastic surgery. So basically, even if I ace the boards I'm still not considered an equal to US grads? That sucks.

Have you heard of any IMG's transferring to US schools after they take their boards? If so, does anyone know what kind of scores would be needed b/c i'm looking into transferring? and what schools would accept me?

also, do those statistics include the scramble? help!

The short answer is sadly no, an IMG is not considered an equal to US grads.

Consider this...a ton of very highly qualified US grads fail to get spots in Plastics.

With regard to Radiology, I would look up Dr. Cuts posts. He matched in rads and documented his efforts in getting there.

Regarding transfer, very few IMGs each year make it back. Those that do usually have highly competitive pre-med stats, very high Step 1 scores and the luck either living in a state with a transfer policy for residents or find a private med school.

Re: stats. Good point. The AMA stats that I posted include the scramble and pre-match posts; while the NRMP stats that I keep refering to do not include pre or post match offers.