OK to Not Have a PI for a Research Project?

[AllDay24]

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Current MS2 here. Came up with a really cool literature-based clinical research project that I'm super interested in doing. I feel like my friend and can handle the project on our own without a PI since we both have some experience. Is a PI necessary? Would a journal be less likely to accept a manuscript because there is no PI? Thanks for your help!

 

[Meh.meh]

Current MS2 here. Came up with a really cool literature-based clinical research project that I'm super interested in doing. I feel like my friend and can handle the project on our own without a PI since we both have some experience. Is a PI necessary? Would a journal be less likely to accept a manuscript because there is no PI? Thanks for your help!

I'd find a mentor. I'm doing something similar, and it can be an enormous pain in the ass.

If you want any help at any point in the project (e.g. statistical analysis) or institutional support, it will make it a lot easier. It will also help you publish in a higher impact journal. As long as you/friend can be joint first authors, why does it matter?

Why don't you want a PI? A project without one won't look better on a CV, it will look worse (in my opinion). If you have a good PI, they won't get in your way, they'll only help. Just choose carefully.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I'd recommend a PI for the reasons mentioned above. You can certainly do a project without a PI, but I'm not sure what you mean by 'literature-based' clinical research project. Sounds like a meta-analysis or review article to me. If that's what your insinuating, those are generally significantly more work than a standard article written by a med student after chart review studies.

 

[repititionition]

so much opinion here, little fact.

first get the language straight: PI!=faculty research mentor or support

the PI gets the grant and has final "lay on the train tracks" responsibility for driving it to completion (or, worse for their career, failure).

second, there is a strong correlation/causation bias in this thread.

Q: is good research with a PI more likely to end up in a high impact factor journal?

A: YES.

WHY? Because a good PI knows how to run good research, NOT because these journals just take whatever comes across their desk from Dr. XYZ.

Bottom line advice advice: DO get faculty support. It makes everything easier... except getting something published in a journal incongruent with the quality of the research.

 

[Meh.meh]

so much opinion here, little fact.

first get the language straight: PI!=faculty research mentor or support

the PI gets the grant and has final "lay on the train tracks" responsibility for driving it to completion (or, worse for their career, failure).

second, there is a strong correlation/causation bias in this thread.

Q: is good research with a PI more likely to end up in a high impact factor journal?

A: YES.

WHY? Because a good PI knows how to run good research, NOT because these journals just take whatever comes across their desk from Dr. XYZ.

Bottom line advice advice: DO get faculty support. It makes everything easier... except getting something published in a journal incongruent with the quality of the research.

I'm assuming you're referring to my post, considering I'm one of two responses, and the other post is mostly dedicated to agreeing with me.

We have no idea if OP is seeking a grant. Literature reviews and meta-analysis don't require them unless you want additional staff, or have no institutional support.

I would suggest that a review or meta-analysis is more likely to be published with the backing of a credible author. I agree that it is probably due in part to more experienced authors making a higher quality paper. I never suggested that journals simply take "whatever comes across their desk."

A PI can function as a mentor. I meant it in that sense. I don't think the meaning was that difficult to discern: and in this case, if the OP doesn't want a PI, they should at least find a mentor.

 

[AllDay24]

Thanks everyone! Definitely do not need a grant for the project. The project is sorta a meta-analysis but will not nearly be as statistically rigorous. I'll look into finding a mentor, thanks!

 

[operaman]

Yeah seconding/thirding above, though maybe PI is the wrong lingo here. Either way, you need faculty support unless you've already been publishing these kind of studies on your own in major journals. This field -- especially research -- is all about mentorship. Yes, you can plod through on your own, but I promise you you'll regret it because you'll make little mistakes along the way you don't even realize you're making until it's too late. Your project may even be fundamentally flawed from the start. A good mentor can help you with this.

If it's purely sys review/meta analysis then you won't need IRB approval, but if you're using any medical records or basically anything with real patients then you'll need IRB approval and they will want a PI listed for the study. At my institution, students can be PIs (I have two active ones right now) but you have to have a senior faculty mentor listed as well who will vouch for you and your work. Not sure on the details of your project, but if it ventures into IRB territory you'll definitely need a mentor then too.

Also, don't overlook the networking power of this process. IF this is in a field you're interested in, doing papers with senior faculty early on is a great way to get glowing letters of rec as they will have the chance to know you beyond a few brief encounters during 3rd/4th year.

Also, having the name of a bigwig or two on the paper is HUGE for the overall credibility and reception of the work.

 

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

Yeah seconding/thirding above, though maybe PI is the wrong lingo here. Either way, you need faculty support unless you've already been publishing these kind of studies on your own in major journals. This field -- especially research -- is all about mentorship. Yes, you can plod through on your own, but I promise you you'll regret it because you'll make little mistakes along the way you don't even realize you're making until it's too late. Your project may even be fundamentally flawed from the start. A good mentor can help you with this.

If it's purely sys review/meta analysis then you won't need IRB approval, but if you're using any medical records or basically anything with real patients then you'll need IRB approval and they will want a PI listed for the study. At my institution, students can be PIs (I have two active ones right now) but you have to have a senior faculty mentor listed as well who will vouch for you and your work. Not sure on the details of your project, but if it ventures into IRB territory you'll definitely need a mentor then too.

Also, don't overlook the networking power of this process. IF this is in a field you're interested in, doing papers with senior faculty early on is a great way to get glowing letters of rec as they will have the chance to know you beyond a few brief encounters during 3rd/4th year.

Also, having the name of a bigwig or two on the paper is HUGE for the overall credibility and reception of the work.

Same thing at my school. I'm the PI for my study, but I am required to have my faculty advisor co-sign my IRB documents with me (they're also a co-investigator). If I want to make an amendment, I cannot submit it for approval without their signature. Their expertise in dealing not only with the IRB but the research process in general has been invaluable. It really helps to have a seasoned researcher on your team who knows what the hell they are doing/talking about, especially if this is your first big project as a PI. Good luck with your research!

 

[NickNaylor]

You should get a mentor. Depending on the specifics of your project you may need IRB approval, and at least at my institution that process requires you to list a faculty member as the "PI" regardless of how much work they may or may not be doing.

That aside, unless you have a ton of research experience a mentor can be immensely helpful. Find someone who has experience with the kind of work you want to do and see if they'd be willing to mentor you. If you'd like, you can tell them that you think you'll be able to work pretty independently but would appreciate their input. I'm not sure if journals would require a faculty member to be listed in order for a submission to be considered (I would imagine not), but I think you're underestimating how helpful having someone to consult for questions that inevitably arise can be.