Old exam policies

[NittanyKitty]

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Just curious what other vet schools do regarding the "passing on" of previous years' exams. There was a big "policy change" at NCSU last year (I put that in quotes because apparently it didn't really change but the professors were strongly advised not to allow access to previous exams) and students are now, cold turkey, no longer allowed to use them as a resource. Our first-year class had a pretty big drop in our first comparative anatomy exam grade as compared to previous years, and that was a contributing factor (along with some shifty grading). Are old exams provided as a resource, encouraged, inapplicable, or banned at your school?

 

[Ben and Me]

We get a "test box" each year from our mentors, but honestly it isn't too terribly helpful.

- Anatomy makes a point to never (ever) reuse questions -- so each year, it seems like the questions get less clinically relevant...
- A lot of the tests have gone to scantron, where you only get the scantron sheet (not the test booklet) back
- It seems like our class has been the year that professors figured out that students were really only studying from old tests -- so if for the last 10 years they've repeated a question, our year it will suddenly be a new question.

So yes, we get them, but I don't think it makes a huge difference for most people.

 

[katryn]

It varies by professor here. Some professors never ever ever give back exams, to the point where getting caught with an old exam counts as cheating, and has serious repercussions at least with the teacher. Other professors email out copies (w/o answer key) before the exam so we can get an idea of what kinds of questions are asked. It does seem like there is an overall shift towards not giving tests back, and most circulating test copies are at least 3-5 years old. For the most part, all of the professors have been very good about providing some kind of guideline for studying the material in the form of objectives, study guide handouts, chapter questions, etc, so not having old tests is not the end of the world.

 

[sumstorm]

Our first-year class had a pretty big drop in our first comparative anatomy exam grade as compared to previous years, and that was a contributing factor (along with some shifty grading). Are old exams provided as a resource, encouraged, inapplicable, or banned at your school?

Just so you know, they said that to our class and the class ahead of us as well.

Also, part of the reason that policy was revisted was because anatomy professors were going more and more irrelevant on their exams. My favorite comment last year was 'I can't put that on the exam because I covered it in a review session.' huh? isn't the point of a review session to review the information in preperation for examination?

 

[BlacKAT33]

We get a "test box" each year from our mentors, but honestly it isn't too terribly helpful.

- Anatomy makes a point to never (ever) reuse questions -- so each year, it seems like the questions get less clinically relevant...
- A lot of the tests have gone to scantron, where you only get the scantron sheet (not the test booklet) back
- It seems like our class has been the year that professors figured out that students were really only studying from old tests -- so if for the last 10 years they've repeated a question, our year it will suddenly be a new question.

So yes, we get them, but I don't think it makes a huge difference for most people.

yup and my class (a yr after ben and me) doesnt get any tests back that have the exam questions on them. They have either switched it all to scantron or only an answer sheet so you write out your answer but dont get the questions back. The professors said they are trying to phase out the test box.

 

[No Imagination]

Miss State recently did the same thing. Made it an "Honor Code" violation to use old exams (apparently very strict about it) - warned if caught, would be dealt with the same a cheating.

Unfortunately, the teachers were supposed to rewrite all new exams following this change, to make the old material useless. Most of the professors where too lazy to do this however, and for at least the first year, some old exams were virtually identical to our exams.

I asked, "Well, if all the exams are now different, and the old exams are useless, why not give us all the old exams... start everyone on the same foot" - reply basically being "Bad student, no use logic here, Bad"

One nice thing, it is now virtually impossible to get your hands on a current exam, so in a few years, we (vet students at Miss State) should all be on the same footing.

 

[chordy4]

Ohio State never gives back exams (I'm sure they did long long ago) and I believe it is an honor code violation to get caught with any exam-related material

 

[elefante7]

At Wisconsin, it is also professor specific. A lot of classes don't give back exams and a few actually encourage you to look at old ones. It is actually kind of confusing trying to figure out which old exams I am allowed to look at.

 

[katryn]

At Wisconsin, it is also professor specific. A lot of classes don't give back exams and a few actually encourage you to look at old ones. It is actually kind of confusing trying to figure out which old exams I am allowed to look at.

I know how you feel. I actually made a cheat sheet index card last semester of which professors said "use exams and fail!" and which said "here, have last years exam as a guide". For the most part I've just avoided using old exams so there's no chance of getting screwed by accident.

 

[cowgirla]

First week of class, all first years got a CD of old exams. There are a few professors (who use scantron or just don't give back exams) who aren't on there, but for the most part, it's a great resource that all the profs know about. There are exams on there going back 10+ years for some classes, and some profs still use the same questions over and over again! for other profs, its just useful to see what topics they have considered important in previous years, or see how they like to structure their exams etc. Honestly, the test file has saved my life in a couple of classes so far 🙂 Even for lab exams like anatomy where the question isn't there (because it was on the table, on the cadaver, etc) it's been useful to see what terms appear over and over again as answers.

 

[eringobraugh]

At CSU we only get exams back for 3 days and we have to return them to the course coordinators. Except Immunology, we had a new professor this year and I guess she didn't care if we kept them. Its an Honor Code violation to copy exams so we don't really have many floating around the school.

Technically we aren't really even supposed to talk about the exams, according to the honor code. So I'm pretty sure if you were caught with old exams or old study material you'd be in deep doo-doo.

 

[Allthingsequine]

Wow, I'm surprised so many of you don't have access to old tests! We get test files from our big sibs at the beginning of each year. For most classes we have tests going back ten years or more. There are also answer keys to old tests posted in many of the online course folders. How helpful they are varies from class to class, but for the most part I don't know what I'd do without my test file!

 

[libster06]

Wow, I'm surprised so many of you don't have access to old tests! We get test files from our big sibs at the beginning of each year. For most classes we have tests going back ten years or more. There are also answer keys to old tests posted in many of the online course folders. How helpful they are varies from class to class, but for the most part I don't know what I'd do without my test file!

LSU is the same way. Unless you have a teacher that doesn't give back exams (say, someone took over a class and decided they weren't going to give them back), we generally have exams from about ten years back, give or take. Some times they're helpful, sometimes they're not. They're pretty good for the most part, and if anything, its nice to have a study guide to see where you're at (assuming the lecture material in the past covered what you are covering, which also doesn't always happen). It really kills me when schools have an "old exam=cheating" policy, because I don't feel like its cheating- and I never have. The teachers are smart enough and capable enough to change the exams each year as they see fit. Yea, there are only a certain number of ways to ask a question, but with the amount of material we go through, there's more than ample information to change the test from year to year.

 

[sumstorm]

Yea, there are only a certain number of ways to ask a question, but with the amount of material we go through, there's more than ample information to change the test from year to year.

I see both sides of the argument. If you are writing exams, changing the questions every single year without repeat means you are likely moving into increasingly esoteric information. If you repeat questions, you may be giving students who recieve assistance from a big sib over a student who doesn't get a box and/or reinforcing memorization and dump habits.

On the other hand, it does help prioritize information. One big gripe I have is that I often feel there is little prioritization of information in vet school classes. Ofteny syllabi say we are responsible for all written, lecture, text, and lab material. That's great, when you aren't in the classroom 7+ hours a day, or dealing with PPT with 7-12 pts per slide and 55-100 slides a lecture. One thing I have noticed is the professors who use powerpoint mostly to supplement lecture, or don't use it at all, are better at prioritizing their notes, but that may be just my perception since PPT wasn't common when I was in undergrad.

I often feel like many of our classes are excessive in the material they present. If we have an embryology class, I don't think testing on embryology should be part of the anatomy class, for example. If I am spending an extra 10% of time studying information that is covered better in another class, that is 10% of time that I am not focused on the primary components of that class, but if there are 2-10% of the exam questions on that. Not saying that the connections shouldn't be made, but I don't feel they need to be tested....trust the professor in that class to cover that material (or integrate the entire curriculem, which I would prefer.)

 

[katryn]

I think this is why I get the best results out of professors that don't give out old exams, but do give out study guides. If it's not on the study guide it was extraneous material. And then they don't have to necessarily make up new questions, and no one is rewarded for memorization/brain dump study habits.

 

[Willowhand]

Here, it's up the the professors to decide whether to allow their old exams to be used. So far a majority of them don't care --and a few even post old exams and keys on the course page for us to study with. Sophomore buddies traditionally pass along binders of old exams to the first-years (from courses where this is allowed) so they're pretty commonly used.

 

[Dr Moo]

Our School Policy is not to allow testing materials out at all. If one gets caught with even 1 test question, the student can be expelled on academic honor code violation.

To make matters even more fun, sharing notes from the big sib to little is prohibited and again can be considered an honor code violation. Students are expected to make their own notes and work their peers on materials. Professors don't provide study guides, but the learning curve is rapid. Then after 8 weeks of pouring over the materials you hope you studied the right stuff you take your tests all week long...

It seems to work well as we retain the ideas decently, but the stress is not so fun.

 

[libster06]

I see both sides of the argument. If you are writing exams, changing the questions every single year without repeat means you are likely moving into increasingly esoteric information. If you repeat questions, you may be giving students who recieve assistance from a big sib over a student who doesn't get a box and/or reinforcing memorization and dump habits.

Everyone in our class gets a big sib, and thus gets a box. Some boxes have better, extra material than others (study guides, helpful hints), but all boxes have the same tests. I don't see how changing questions each year would give "esoteric" information; if you're making your test questions based off of the material presented to that year's class (because lecture material often is changed from year to year), that would be the goal. You've taught the students specific information you've prepared ahead of time, and they should be tested on that info. I agree that re-using test questions allows for memorization and things, but I feel like if you test based on concepts, there is a lot of ways to ask a question, year after year (not just pertinent to a specific year's class).

On the other hand, it does help prioritize information. One big gripe I have is that I often feel there is little prioritization of information in vet school classes. Ofteny syllabi say we are responsible for all written, lecture, text, and lab material. That's great, when you aren't in the classroom 7+ hours a day, or dealing with PPT with 7-12 pts per slide and 55-100 slides a lecture. One thing I have noticed is the professors who use powerpoint mostly to supplement lecture, or don't use it at all, are better at prioritizing their notes, but that may be just my perception since PPT wasn't common when I was in undergrad.

Yes, our immunology professor, throughout his lecture, would highlight the information according to it priority (red, blue green). It was SO helpful because when it came time to study for tests, it was nice to be able to actually weed the stuff that TRULY wasn't going to be tested on. There wasn't much of that in the notes, and most of it was testable, which is fine, but it was really nice to have someone acknowledge the fact that it isn't feasible to test on every single word uttered during lecture.

 

[sumstorm]

Everyone in our class gets a big sib, and thus gets a box. Some boxes have better, extra material than others (study guides, helpful hints), but all boxes have the same tests.

How can you be sure that all boxes have the same tests? We had some boxes have tests dating back 2 decades, and some have zero. Were students required to hand down their own tests? It may be more consistent elsewhere, but here the variations were massive; some students didn't get anything (no box, no binders, nothing) while other students had 4-5 literal boxes. Now, I am not saying an overhwhelming amount of info is particularly helpful, but that if a student has all the tests for the past 10 years and another student has 0, that isn't particularly fair. We started to move towards a study CD so that students had similar access to material, but that didn't go over very well with faculty. Now study guides are passed around by the person that creates them (and different students do different types) via internet (which is allowed here) but tests are prohibited unless clearly allowed in writing in the syllabus (and professors are encouraged to post acceptable previous tests.)

I don't see how changing questions each year would give "esoteric" information; if you're making your test questions based off of the material presented to that year's class (because lecture material often is changed from year to year), that would be the goal. You've taught the students specific information you've prepared ahead of time, and they should be tested on that info. I agree that re-using test questions allows for memorization and things, but I feel like if you test based on concepts, there is a lot of ways to ask a question, year after year (not just pertinent to a specific year's class).

I'm not saying that it has to make the test questions increasinly esoteric, but that has happened here. An example for us was anatomy; the professors reviewed the old exams and felt she shouldn't ask anything during the practical that was a correct answer on previous exams. Each year, the exams would cover increasingly esoteric information (information that would be of special or rare interest.) Not saying I agree with the philosophy used to determine testing, but I can't change a professors philosophy on repeating questions. I don't know how it is elsewhere, i just know in some of our classes there is an immense amount of detailed info presented and only a small subset of that is tested, and it isn't necessarily the big concepts. Here, often the statement is 'test questions can come from the notes, the info in class, and/or any suggeted reading for the class.' Some of our profs have been teaching here since the school opened and there isn't a infinite number of ways to ask about the attachment of a particular extensor in a specific species (and we get some odd ones such as 'in the X, what is the origin of the muscle tagged' and the tissue presented obviously isn't of the species in question or a leg that is stripped of identifying feature (ie can't see the hip or shoulder joint, can't see the hoof) with a muscle tagged and the tissue mostly covered (touching isn't allowed) with the 'id insertion' and it's a muscle where different species have different insertions. Theoretically, these aren't impossible questions, but can be really tough in 30 seconds, and require a lot of mental back tracking to get to the correct answer. My favorite was having a professor that gave review session then nothing covered in review was on the exam, and when questions she said 'obviously I couldn't give you the answers to any test questions in the review session.'

I hate to say it, but our lecture material isn't changed much from year to year. the order may change, and more information may be added (emerging diseases, name changes, new techniques) but the core of what we learn isnt' changing much.

 

[libster06]

How can you be sure that all boxes have the same tests? We had some boxes have tests dating back 2 decades, and some have zero. Were students required to hand down their own tests? It may be more consistent elsewhere, but here the variations were massive; some students didn't get anything (no box, no binders, nothing) while other students had 4-5 literal boxes. Now, I am not saying an overhwhelming amount of info is particularly helpful, but that if a student has all the tests for the past 10 years and another student has 0, that isn't particularly fair. We started to move towards a study CD so that students had similar access to material, but that didn't go over very well with faculty. Now study guides are passed around by the person that creates them (and different students do different types) via internet (which is allowed here) but tests are prohibited unless clearly allowed in writing in the syllabus (and professors are encouraged to post acceptable previous tests.)

I guess it's just safe to say your school is quite different from mine... interesting.

 

[twelvetigers]

OKSU also does the boxes. I don't know if it's fair - someone got a Ross transfer as a big sib, and thus got no old stuff at all, but most are willing to share.

 

[sumstorm]

I guess it's just safe to say your school is quite different from mine... interesting.

There's a lot of variation in the schools...each year I learn about more.

I also kind of think they did this to pre-empt next years class increase of 20 students.

I do think the biggest reason ours were eliminated had to do with particular professors being upset by access to tests, and some potentially not acceptable info.

I must say that professors have been more willing to share styles of questions and such during lectures, and have been more forthcoming with study guides since the change.

My little sib was vocally upset with my lack of providing her with a box (she roomed with a classmate) but I never got a box, so I sent her the links to flashcards and study guides that I and other students put together...but apparently that felt negligible to her compared to a big stout box....and I understand, but I also wasn't going to print out thousands of pages of documents.

 

[JumpHigherLivie]

Each year, the exams would cover increasingly esoteric information (information that would be of special or rare interest.)

I have to agree with you ... I didn't really "get" it until I TAd for a professor who collected old exams. But it's true ... there are only so many "good" basic questions ... once you exhaust those (if you choose not to re-ask old questions) you end of with the random detail questions.

I also can relate, sumstorm, with you sib issue. I had the problem where I WAS handed down a lot of stuff (but didn't use it personally) and then found out that a lot of the stuff was "illegal" that I had after certain classes were proclaimed to be "no old exam" classes (I was informed I had this stuff by my big sib) and that sibs would be held responsible if we passed this stuff down.... my sib wasn't thrilled when I didn't hand stuff down and when there was a delay in what I could hand down because I had to hand go through everything to find out what she could have and not have. I felt bad, but I wasn't putting my reputation on the line.

 

[libster06]

I guess I will count my blessings that I go to a school that allows the box stuff/old exam material...

 

[Chaco]

At UC Davis we get a test file from our big sib, and there are a lot of issues with it. They are not at all consistent, especially for electives and classes specific to certain tracks. How recent the material is depends on how well it was maintained by the previous generations. Going into spring quarter, I actually haven't received mine for this year. All of this is sort of evened out though, by helpful classmates who scan in and email out relevant tests before exams, so that's nice.

Personally, I wish the test files would go away. It'll never happen; even if they made it an honor code violation to use old tests, they would still exist and people would still use them. One of my issues with them is that their use does not help me learn the material, it just helps me learn how to do well on the test. In addition, we have definitely run into classes where the professors are forced to ask increasingly esoteric questions because they know we have access to old tests, and classes where the final was an exact copy of the previous year's because they didn't know we had it. Overall, I think the old tests are not helping us learn the material any more effectively, and their existence encourages the professors to give us bad tests (that is, exams that don't do a good job of evaluating how effectively we assimilated the material presents, exams that test random facts and not concepts, and exams that encourage memorization)

 

[libster06]

Personally, I wish the test files would go away. It'll never happen; even if they made it an honor code violation to use old tests, they would still exist and people would still use them. One of my issues with them is that their use does not help me learn the material, it just helps me learn how to do well on the test. In addition, we have definitely run into classes where the professors are forced to ask increasingly esoteric questions because they know we have access to old tests, and classes where the final was an exact copy of the previous year's because they didn't know we had it. Overall, I think the old tests are not helping us learn the material any more effectively, and their existence encourages the professors to give us bad tests (that is, exams that don't do a good job of evaluating how effectively we assimilated the material presents, exams that test random facts and not concepts, and exams that encourage memorization)

What I'm getting at is that I'm not using the exams to "learn material". I use them as a benchmark to see if I have a good grasp on things that I am learning. Sometimes I don't even use them, as sometimes they aren't the slightest bit relevant to what I'm learning. Not to mention, the cram-purge method that we are forced to study under in vet school because of time constraints set up by the schedule (at least where I am) isn't really conducive to retaining anything either. I really don't feel like I've learned a whole ton with or without old tests. I doubt I will ever feel like I know anything until I get out there and start applying this stuff in a clinical setting.

I think this is getting a bigger deal made out of it than it should. If your school has a "no old exam" policy, then by all means don't do it. Those who have gone before managed, so you can too. Otherwise, if it's allowed, and you are using exams to study religiously for a test, no, you're probably not getting any benefit from that. In fact our associate dean told us during orientation (before I even knew what a "test file" was) to use it for practicing along the way to gauge where you're at in your learning, not for memorizing the questions and repeating them without absorbing any conceptual knowledge whatsoever.

 

[karmapple]

Personally, I wish the test files would go away. It'll never happen; even if they made it an honor code violation to use old tests, they would still exist and people would still use them.

I think this is my only concern about not having old tests available at Ohio State. I don't mind the policy, but the reality is that several years ago old tests were allowed, and then suddenly it was made an honor code violation. Now I believe they use the exact same tests year after year. The problem with this is that I have a sneaking suspicion that old tests are still floating around out there, and vet students are still using them, giving them an exact copy of the test. It just opens up way too much room for cheating.

I can imagine how a less-than-honest person could do something such as, say, write down the tests questions on a separate sheet of paper while taking a test and then pass them down to a little sib. I have no proof any of this happens. Maybe I am just cynical, and it never does. I just hate the idea of giving people such an easy opportunity.

I am glad, however, that we get quality test questions for every exam, and not some esoteric questions in an attempt to deviate from the questions of past.

 

[nyanko]

Yeah, I have to agree with libster here. On the one hand, there's learning the material - and as I'm sure a lot of us can attest to, grades on exams aren't typically a very good gauge of what a person really learned in a class. On the other, the way things are set up we are being assessed using grades so I think it's fair to have a way to dig out the information that the instructor thinks is relevant - which is often quite different from what you or I might think.

I definitely use old exams when it's clear the instructor doesn't have a problem with it (i.e. the ones who put copies of old exams up on the course websites and such) but not with the intent of going through and memorizing questions, More often just trying to get a handle on whether what I'm studying is what the particular professor wants and "testing" myself per se.

There are some professors here who are clearly against old exams. They don't hand back their exams and once I was in the student programs office looking at my exam and writing down some points that I wanted to clarify (I learn well by thinking about what mistakes I made and why, after all!) and I was told that I wasn't allowed to write ANYTHING. That's taking it a little too far IMO. How am I supposed to figure out what topics I may be missing important points on if I can only look at it there?? I'm never going to remember all of that later!

 

[Chaco]

There are some professors here who are clearly against old exams. They don't hand back their exams and once I was in the student programs office looking at my exam and writing down some points that I wanted to clarify (I learn well by thinking about what mistakes I made and why, after all!) and I was told that I wasn't allowed to write ANYTHING. That's taking it a little too far IMO. How am I supposed to figure out what topics I may be missing important points on if I can only look at it there?? I'm never going to remember all of that later!

That bothers me too--the expectation that the only reason to want to know or have a record of the right answers is so that someone else can use them later. Before vet school it never occurred to me that previous exams would be good for anything except as an example of the types of questions, but here there's the expectation that they will help you in other ways, by both the students, who pass them down, and the professors, who restrict access to them. It's all very weird to me.

 

[Lissarae06]

OKSU also does the boxes. I don't know if it's fair - someone got a Ross transfer as a big sib, and thus got no old stuff at all, but most are willing to share.

Everyone also gets the same CD no matter who your buddy is that has old tests/quizzes on it (and the test files from previous years are on the I drive). Whatever else you get from your buddy is just extra. We all share and not all classes have old exams. More and more professors are keeping tests so that they can't be passed on. I like having the old stuff so I can see the professor's testing style. The questions may not be the same but it is useful seeing if they like true false, fill in the blank, etc.

 

[bunnity]

Wow I guess Penn is pretty good about tests in terms of making things fair. If we get a test back, it is fair game for next year. If professors do not want us to get the questions back, they either give us back the answers only (in a separate answer booklet - which is then fair game) or use scantron.

And there is no way we could write down test questions during an exam. We are not allowed anything but a pencil or pen with us while taking an exam.

 

[twelvetigers]

Everyone also gets the same CD no matter who your buddy is that has old tests/quizzes on it (and the test files from previous years are on the I drive). Whatever else you get from your buddy is just extra. We all share and not all classes have old exams. More and more professors are keeping tests so that they can't be passed on. I like having the old stuff so I can see the professor's testing style. The questions may not be the same but it is useful seeing if they like true false, fill in the blank, etc.

Gotcha! I remember mention of the magical CD. I'm just pals with cowgirla's big sib's big sib, and her big sib's big sib's big sib... er... yeah. So Miss B.W. wanted to see to it that I got her old stuff, etc etc so I knew about the test file and that they probably aren't all created equal. But I would hope that people would share, ya know?

 

[StartingoverVet]

I am definitely in the camp of not liking having test boxes.

I had a bad experience early where I didn't have exams that others did and it really hurt me. Now I can borrow them from people when necessary (and some are even on-line).

But I am not here to learn to answer exam questions. It is a necessary evil and I hate it, absolutely hate it, when I resort to "studying" from old exams. Unfortunately, I succumb to temptation🙁

I also think that professors ask more esoteric questions to keep us honest. I find the really old exams (10 years ago when I have them) are much more straight forward. Hey, that's the stuff I want to learn.