Old Grades Are Killing Me

[opheracco]

I didn't try when I first went to college for a 2-year AAS computer science degree. I ended up with a 3.1 GPA 👎. Med school, or anything past a 2-year, was not part of the plan at the time. This was over a decade ago.

Since I've restarted college, in my current major, I have a 3.63 GPA, bringing my total GPA from 3.1 to 3.29. It's ugly, but the more credits you start with, the harder your GPA is to change. I want to try and get into Med School, but I don't know if my lack of effort 10 years ago is going to disqualify me. If I would have only known.

I can probably only get my GPA up to around a 3.5 by the time I'm finished, if everything goes well. I have only 22 credits left, all science. My generals were all completed 10 years ago.

That being said, my science GPA can be at 3.69 if I ace everything I have left. Easier said than done, but most of my hard classes are out of the way.

Any opinions, discouragements, encouragements, advice towards a particular school or type of school (DO vs MD)? Any inside adcom knowledge on whether they will forgive me my past grades? Anything at all?

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[phltz]

I didn't try when I first went to college for a 2-year AAS computer science degree. I ended up with a 3.1 GPA 👎. Med school, or anything past a 2-year, was not part of the plan at the time. This was over a decade ago.

Since I've restarted college, in my current major, I have a 3.63 GPA, bringing my total GPA from 3.1 to 3.29. It's ugly, but the more credits you start with, the harder your GPA is to change. I want to try and get into Med School, but I don't know if my lack of effort 10 years ago is going to disqualify me. If I would have only known.

I can probably only get my GPA up to around a 3.5 by the time I'm finished, if everything goes well. I have only 22 credits left, all science. My generals were all completed 10 years ago.

That being said, my science GPA can be at 3.69 if I ace everything I have left. Easier said than done, but most of my hard classes are out of the way.

Any opinions, discouragements, encouragements, advice towards a particular school or type of school (DO vs MD)? Any inside adcom knowledge on whether they will forgive me my past grades? Anything at all?

I think you'll be fine if the rest of your application is good. I applied with about a 3.0 undergrad GPA from 10 years ago and a 4.0 postbac from the past year, for a grand total of 3.23. I've had good luck this application cycle so far. Especially the top schools seem to be willing to weigh your more recent grades significantly more than some ancient history from when you were a shiftless punk of a kid.

 

[DrMidlife]

You're not alone. The low GPA thread in the postbac forum has been viewed over 300k times now.

With 22 credits left and multiple years behind it, a 3.29 isn't going to a 3.5.

IMHO your MCAT score will make or break you. Applying MD with a 3.3+ cuGPA, 3.6+ sGPA and above average MCAT is a good bet, unless you're in a crazy competitive state like California. The same GPAs with an average or below average MCAT is a less good bet.

Make sure your app is compelling with solid, varied LORs, ECs and essays.

Best of luck to you.

 

[EMSArtist]

I think you'll be fine if the rest of your application is good. I applied with about a 3.0 undergrad GPA from 10 years ago and a 4.0 postbac from the past year, for a grand total of 3.23. I've had good luck this application cycle so far. Especially the top schools seem to be willing to weigh your more recent grades significantly more than some ancient history from when you were a shiftless punk of a kid.

I really hope that part is true. I'll be 34, with a GPA of about 3.4 (hopefully) but as of now I have a clean science/ pre-req GPA. I'm hoping that they'll be willing to overlook the F in a senior seminar in critical geopolitics I tried to take as a freshman recovering from a TBI, oh yeah and an F in math that semester too 🙂

 

[Dianyla]

Killing? No. Unattractive? Absolutely. Bad grades are like herpes. 👎

Thanks to 3 Incomplete-to-Fs from 15 years ago, my cumulative GPA is 3.23 instead of 3.55, and my science GPA is 3.0 instead of 3.45. The really cute part is that one of those Fs was in a class that I never knew I registered for and certainly never attended because it was in Summer term and I left town at the end of Spring semester. I only found out about that F from 1996 in Physical Chemistry when reviewing my transcripts and entering them into AMCAS to apply to this 2011 cycle. 😱

I really hope that part is true. I'll be 34, with a GPA of about 3.4 (hopefully) but as of now I have a clean science/ pre-req GPA. I'm hoping that they'll be willing to overlook the F in a senior seminar in critical geopolitics I tried to take as a freshman recovering from a TBI, oh yeah and an F in math that semester too 🙂

Bad news:
For MD schools, both of those Fs will count towards your cumulative GPA. And the F in Math counts towards your science GPA. If your cumulatives are below minimum cut-offs, you will have great difficulty applying to certain schools. The AMCAS computers do not care, and they show no mercy. However, if your app can make it past computerized cut-offs and sorting algorithms, most AdCom humans will consider you more holistically. If they see an upward trend, and especially if they see that the bad grades are from a million years ago, they consider it. The key is to ensure that your app doesn't get screened by technology, because otherwise it'll never be seen by the merciful humans.

Now, some good news:
DO schools do grade replacement/forgiveness. Also, if you live in Texas, there is some kind of fresh start program where bad grades older than some years (>10 maybe?) are not counted towards your GPA. Some schools have their own weighting algorithm (UW is one) that rewards the upward trend.

MD schools that focus on producing primary care physicians tend to be more forgiving of old skeletons in the closet as long as you meet their minimum cut-offs and can demonstrate that you have what it takes to succeed in medschool. Case in point, my local school OHSU gives each applicant a composite score post-interview in order to evaluate for acceptance. 20% of your score is academics (GPA+MCAT), and 80% is "everything else" (interview, essays, LORs, extracurriculars) to calculate your total "worthiness" score. This kind of situation really favors non-traditionals.

To summarize:
Do as well as possible on everything from here on out. Rock the MCAT. Get the MSAR and choose where you apply wisely. Make sure your extracurricular activities are awesome, and that your LORs make it sound like you walk on water. Write a strong PS and strong essays (hint: it will take more than 2-3 drafts with lovingly brutal feedback from friends and strangers) and above all apply early.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Yeah, I hate this. Who would've known 10 years ago I would decide to eventually apply to medical school? Who knew my senior year in high school that 28 college credits I took to save some money and didn't take quite as seriously as I could have would come back and bite me in the butt all these years later.

Hang in there. I've heard more than a few schools talk about upward trends and your most recent performance being the most important.

 

[musicmajor]

I have a similar problem with old grades.

Left high school early to go to college... did terribly for two semesters.

Went to college at 24. Graduated Summa with 3.85 GPA, BA in music

Started Post-bacc at 30, so far 3.93 GPA, 3 more courses to go..

It's clearly an upward trend. I can't change my past grades, but I've compensated by doing a lot of volunteering so that I can demonstrate a real interest in working with patients. All of my experience so far tells me that medicine is going to be a rewarding career. It would save me time and money to know which schools will reject me based on numbers, but the best I can do is to learn the pre-req material well so I can get a good MCAT score, and do a good job explaining why I have the temperament and intellect to become a physician.

I've heard too many stories about qualified people letting anxiety about the numbers psyche them out before they even apply. Everyone will have some weaknesses in his or her application, but given my interest in medicine and my drive to succeed, I would kick myself if I didn't focus on the present and prepare my best possible application. If I don't get in, then I'll have the opportunity to reassess and decide whether to try another app cycle.

 

[EMSArtist]

I've heard too many stories about qualified people letting anxiety about the numbers psyche them out before they even apply. Everyone will have some weaknesses in his or her application, but given my interest in medicine and my drive to succeed, I would kick myself if I didn't focus on the present and prepare my best possible application.

Amen on not giving up. The guy who convinced me to try for Med school, and a really outstanding ER doc I've known for years got into Med school with a 2.9 Cumulative GPA. He had a strong upward trend and rocked the MCAT. He told me that with bad grades you gotta give them a reason to look twice. So good luck to all with bad grades and good stories!! 🙂