Older Lawyer - Career change am I CRAZY?

[scottnla]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Greetings,

I cant wait to see the replies to this. I am a 49 year old cop and lawyer (part time attorney). I have always wanted to be a DVM or a MD/DO. However, I always avoided the math and sciences. Yes I know...this is not a great sign but...age can motivate. I killed myself to get through ABA law school in my late 30s/early 40s and passed the bar on the first shot.

Oh yes...Im married with 2 kids

1 - Am i NUTS? should I seek therapy instead?
2 - I have no prereqs (yes another bad sign) Can I get them online while I am still working?
3 - What schools (DVM/MD/DO) are my best bet

Before Im any older I need to make some decisions...

"He who dies with the most experiences wins.... never die with an unfulfilled dream"

Scott Pric\vate emails welcome as well
scottnla @ hotmail . com

 

[neurologist]

Generally, I am supportive of nontrads (being one myself).

BUT . . .

You are 49. Realistically, if you started today, it would be at least 3 years before you even started med school (at 52 years old). Finish med school at 56. Finish residency at 59+, depending on specialty. I would NOT want to do any residency in my late 50s. Meanwhile spending tons of money and likely going way into debt. Then . . . what? How long do you think you'll realistically want to be practicing?

Sorry, maybe others will be more supportive, but I think I have to rain on this particular parade . . .

Especially given the "DVM or MD" statement. If you don't even have that one figured out, you're not even at the starting line . . .

I don't think you need therapy, but definitely some realistic career counseling.

 

[Law2Doc]

Greetings,

I cant wait to see the replies to this. I am a 49 year old cop and lawyer (part time attorney). I have always wanted to be a DVM or a MD/DO. However, I always avoided the math and sciences. Yes I know...this is not a great sign but...age can motivate. I killed myself to get through ABA law school in my late 30s/early 40s and passed the bar on the first shot.

Oh yes...Im married with 2 kids

1 - Am i NUTS? should I seek therapy instead?
2 - I have no prereqs (yes another bad sign) Can I get them online while I am still working?
3 - What schools (DVM/MD/DO) are my best bet

Before Im any older I need to make some decisions...

"He who dies with the most experiences wins.... never die with an unfulfilled dream"

Scott Pric\vate emails welcome as well
scottnla @ hotmail . com

First, you need to figure out what you want to do. DVM and physician are not really the same profession and so you need to decide which one and why. Until you have decided with a strong, well thought out reason, whether you want to go into medicine and why, you shouldn't go that route. This is not a path you try on a whim. Only when you know exactly where you are going should you start down this path.

Second, most schools are only going to accept online prereqs in exceptional circumstances (eg if you are in the military and unable to attend a brick and mortar school). And most of the prereqs have associated labs which will require in person attendance. And you are going to need letters of recommendation from science professors for most schools anyhow. I wouldn't plan on doing any prereqs online if medicine is the road you opt for.

Bear in mind that law school and medicine/prereqs are like night and day, and so having passed the bar probably isn't a good proxy for how you will do in medicine. If you are not a math/science person, you probably will require a lot of time working on your coursework, so you will want to consider how scaled back you can make your employment to enable you to spend the time necessary. A lot of people do postbac fulltime for this reason -- you can finish earlier and do better if you immerse yourself. Of course this isn't practical for everyone, in which case you need to make sure you don't bite off more than you can chew. Also bear in mind that you are going to need to squeeze in clinical experience (hospital volunteering, etc) because this is basically a requirement for med school admission these days.

There is no point worrying about what schools are your best bet until you get closer to the application phase. But if you do a search of threads, you will see that all schools are "nontrad friendly" to those with solid stats. Your state school(s) tend to be people's best odds of admission.

 

[BSN2DOC]

Personally, if I were in your position... married with children... financially stable... and 49 years old... I would focus on spending time with my family, traveling, taking up a few new hobbies, learn a new language, and do all of those things you have always wanted to do.

If you were 20 years, or even 10 years young, I would say go for it. But like the other poster said, you would probably be 60+ before practicing. You need to ask yourself if you are willing to give up the next 11 years of your life (giving up the money you make now, giving up precious time with your family) to pursue medicine.

 

[sawood]

Greetings,

I cant wait to see the replies to this. I am a 49 year old cop and lawyer (part time attorney). I have always wanted to be a DVM or a MD/DO. However, I always avoided the math and sciences. Yes I know...this is not a great sign but...age can motivate. I killed myself to get through ABA law school in my late 30s/early 40s and passed the bar on the first shot.

Oh yes...Im married with 2 kids

1 - Am i NUTS? should I seek therapy instead?
2 - I have no prereqs (yes another bad sign) Can I get them online while I am still working?
3 - What schools (DVM/MD/DO) are my best bet

Before Im any older I need to make some decisions...

"He who dies with the most experiences wins.... never die with an unfulfilled dream"

Scott Pric\vate emails welcome as well
scottnla @ hotmail . com

The fact that you are a cop and a lawyer, and now want to be a doc or a vet, says that you have a lot of interests in many subjects. This isn't a bad thing, I am the same way. I look at most subject areas (except accounting, bleh) and can imagine myself really enjoying learning more about it.

Try finding a way that you can satisfy some of your desire to get involved in the veterinary or medical sciences without the enormous time, money, and emotion that becoming a doctor requires. For example, why not combine your lawyer background with an education in the medical field somehow? Maybe you can help defend doctors against frivalous law suits 🙂. Or, if you want more patient contact, become a PA? I only say this because it doesn't sound like you are convinced that medicine is IT for you, so my guess is that you can probably enjoy a different path equally as much, one that requires less time and monetary investment.

 

[sawood]

Greetings,

1 - Am i NUTS? should I seek therapy instead?

Ummmm, we're all nuts by the way. Welcome to the club.

 

[DrMidlife]

I suggest finding this guy and talking to him. I'm serious.

http://www.une.edu/com/spotlight/spotlight.asp?SID=2

 

[group_theory]

If you want to pursue this path,

1. Start volunteering in a health-related area so you can see what you are getting yourself into. It's definately not what you see on TV (with the exception of Scrubs)

2. Start with Biology 101 (with lab). DO WELL (get an A). See if you can handle this science course.

If afterwards, you still want to pursue this career path, go for it. You already got started. If not (or if family knocks some sense into you), you just expanded your world by taking biology, and you did something helpful to the community 👍


An option to think about would be Physician Assistant(although they still require pre-requisites and some patient-contact hours). The advantage is school is only 2-3 years in length instead of 4, and you do not have to do a residency.

Some websites for you to visit if you are interested
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos081.htm
http://www.aapa.org/geninfo1.html



In terms of online classes, I would avoid them. Medical school and PA schools are already competitive enough. Online classes are not viewed as highly when compared to their equivalent at a brick and mortar school. Admission committee also want to make sure that whomever they accept, they are ready to handle the fast pace information that is thrown at you during the basic science years.

 

[OncoCaP]

I would say don't do it. I'm not suggesting that you can't do it or that you wouldn't enjoy it; what I am saying is that your message did not really explain your motivation for doing this at your age in a way & situation in life that made a lot of sense to me.

 

[gman33]

Why do you want to do this at your point in life?
You need to have a pretty compelling reason.
Whether right or wrong, you will be descriminated against by some schools.

Start by volunteering at a hospital and taking the prereqs. Don't do this online. Take them at a 4 year school.

You also need to make up your mind whether you want to be a MD or a Vet. While there is a lot of overlap in the basic sciences you will learn, the careers are very different. With Vet school, you'd only need maybe 1 year of post-graduate training so you'd have longer to practice. The downside is Vet school is probably even harder to get into than med school and the starting salaries are low.

With no prereqs done, if you decide on medicine, you are looking at a minimum of 10 years before you will be a practicing doc. That's 10 years of lost income and maybe an additional $300k in debt. I like to encourage everyone, but I'd try to find an easier path for you.

 

[njbmd]

I can't evaluate your motives or interest in medicine but I can tell you that for me, medicine has been quite interesting. I entered medical school at age 45 after a successful career as a biochemist. I completed medical school (graduated #2 in my class) at age 49 (turned 50 three weeks later) and started surgical residency in a strong university program.

I was the third oldest in my class with one person starting at age 53 (he's now a Family Medicine practitioner) and one starting at age 49 (she is now in Family Medicine). Now, for me, I have almost completed fellowship and loving every second of what I do. I also have good job offers, no loans to repay (scholarship) and looking forward to tailoring my practice so I can fly (private pilot) and travel overseas.

My age is not much of a factor in what I do and how I approach things but I can tell you that I am an extremely energetic person who has always had broad interests and the ultimate multi-tasker. I am no more tired than my colleagues who are younger at the end of the day and residency was not bad (huge learning curve) and the opportunity to participate in things that I never thought I would see or perform.

If you really believe that you want this career, then nothing else is going to be satisfying for you. While medicine is a very demanding mistress, you can set your priorities as you see fit (like any other career). At age 49, I would think that you know what you want and really don't need the "validation" of others. I am saying that it's possible if you want to do this.

 

[drlisa0318]

Generally, I am supportive of nontrads (being one myself).

BUT . . .

You are 49. Realistically, if you started today, it would be at least 3 years before you even started med school (at 52 years old). Finish med school at 56. Finish residency at 59+, depending on specialty. I would NOT want to do any residency in my late 50s. Meanwhile spending tons of money and likely going way into debt. Then . . . what? How long do you think you'll realistically want to be practicing?

Sorry, maybe others will be more supportive, but I think I have to rain on this particular parade . . .

Especially given the "DVM or MD" statement. If you don't even have that one figured out, you're not even at the starting line . . .

I don't think you need therapy, but definitely some realistic career counseling.

Don't let age be an issue. I was 48 when I started my prereqs (only 2 per semester, since I work full-time). When I apply this summer I'll be 52.

I look at it this way: If I start med school in 2009, I'll be 56 when I graduate, 60 when I finish residency. Regardless what I do, I'm going to be 60 anyway. Why not be doing something I love and am passionate about?

Some argue that I won't have very many years of practice before I retire and I'll have a huge debt hanging over my head. If I don't go to medical school, I'll continue on the same path I've been on for the past 25+ years (bookkeeping) which is utterly boring and while the pay is not too bad ($15/hr), we have no savings, nothing set aside for retirement. At this rate, I'll NEVER be able to retire. I'll work till I drop. If I'm going to do THAT anyway, why not do something that pays WAAAAY more than I'll EVER earn as a bookkeeper?

I will agree with some of the other posters in that you need to decide what you want: MD/DO or DVM. That should be first on your list. In order to decide, you REALLY need to do some shadowing of both physicians and vets.

If you decide to persue medicine, start volunteering somewhere. It doesn't have to be medically-related. It can be your church, a soup kitchen, tutoring, etc. You could even use it to bring your family closer together by involving your family as well. Mainly, it shows that you are willing to give back to your community. Wherever you decide to volunteer, make it MEAN something. In other words, don't let it be just a tick-mark on your application.

As far as your prereqs are concerned, many will say you HAVE to take them at a 4-year school. While many (perhaps even most) schools PREFER that, it's not an automatic rejection if you take them at a community college. Medical schools are cognizant of the fact that it's not always possible, particularly for nontrads, to take them at a 4-year school, whether from an inability to pick up and move to within commuting distance or job constraints that keep you from taking classes during the daytime.

And by the way, regarding your current lack of math and sciences: Don't let it bother you. I was a voice major the first time around in college. Until I started back to school at 48, the last math or science I had taken was in 10th or 11th grade. Except for my initial class (college algebra) where I had to get back into the swing of studying, etc., I've had no real difficulties. In fact, I LOVE being back in school and I chafe at the unfortunate, but necessary restrictions work places on me.

One other thing, be sure to listen to njbmd and Law2Doc. As she stated, njbmd is almost finished with her surgical fellowship and Law2Doc is a medical student. And since he successfully made the transition from law to medicine, what he tells you should be particularly apropos. I'm unfamiliar with the other posters who are currently medical students or residents. Several of the posters on this thread (including myself) are premed and thus, our comments should be taken with a grain of salt.

Best wishes on your journey. Let us know what you decide!

 

[RelativeRisk]

Try finding a way that you can satisfy some of your desire to get involved in the veterinary or medical sciences without the enormous time, money, and emotion that becoming a doctor requires.

I think DrLisa has some good points, but if you're not as passionate or motivated about it as her right now, and Law2Doc is giving you second thoughts, maybe think about becoming a paramedic. As a cop I'm sure you have gotten to know a few and could pick their brains about it. You could start working as a medic in a year or two, get to help people, get the lights and sirens that you're used to as a cop. And maybe even still have time to practice law part time.

 

[aamna0601]

I am a post bac premed (after doing a bachelors in business and finding it to be a crap field 🙂 but im only 22. hehe i feel really old and sad already with all these 18 yr olds in my intro science classes its tough to be around people who dont know what a mullet is or never heard of david bowie.

anyways i digress.

I am also in an EMT class because emergency medicine is one of my potential interests. Why dont you do a certificate program ? There are surgical tech programs, LVN programs that a year long, EMT and paramedic programs, respiratory therapist and many more, that would nto take more than a year and give you some great chances for hands on experience.

I have started my EMT clinical rotations and have gotten to do intubations, compressions, splints, and wound irrigations. I am loving it, and it has reaffirmed my love for becoming a dr and working in an urgent care or surgical setting.

On the other hand one of my friends in premed volunteered in the ER and hated it. So, to each his own, school is hard, but unless you are going to go into pathology, hematology/oncology or neurology or something very cellular, you can get away with just liking science ok and not LOVING it to death, as long as you do well enough. Most primary care physicians get by on personality and charisma to bring people in the door and not the cellular background. To me it is more important that you love the practical aspect of medicine--volunteer or do a certificate prog.

Also, you SHOULD do research to see what the cellular world is about. Since I like science a lot but not so much a microbio type of person (The krebs cycle is the bane of my existence) I am doing clinical research with a Dr in OBGYN and loving it 🙂 But these kinds of opportunities are rare, if you show dedication you might be able to get one too.

Good luck hope you find what it really is you want to do.

 

[scottnla]

To all who replied

THANK YOU!

I anticipated a balance of ...yes "don't do its" and "go for its." The difference between these post (med folks) and my 1998 law site postings (prior to law school), is that you are all generous and really contributed to my decision making process in a positive way. Law students/attorneys were vicious and mean with a series of short sighted one liners. Different folks😱

I very much appreciate ALL your insight. I will reach out to Bill Conway as well. Do any of you recall a story of a retired FBI agent turned doctor? I can't recall where he went to school but was featured on one of the "stories from the ER" shows. Retired in late 40s and made it through.

Based on your insight, I have a place to start....focus my goals, soul search and then volunteer ..to get a taste.

Thanks again... any feedback or replies are welcome!

Scott 🙂

 

[ExcelBillSrvc]

Career changes happen throughout our lives because we never know what we want to do with it to begin with. The old saying goes, "You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink!". With that said, your the only person that can make that decision to go to school and then practice for how many years you choose to.

Now I am going to give you some very good advice, first off definitely before you go into medical school take some medical certificate classes. EMT is a very good one to take, you will get hands on experience and learn lots of things that you will need to know. You will need anatomy and physiology classes, trust me they don't give you a lot of time to learn this information. So get some books and diagrams and study hard on these before taking the classes. As an older student myself, it is harder to remember things that involve anatomy. It isn't just the body you learn, it is also how the body functions.

Take the A&P courses, biology course, Chemistry course and then decide if you want to become a doctor. If you can pass the three courses above with A's, then go on to the next step. By then you will know exactly what you want to do..that is if you haven't lost interest after taking those courses.

EMT Certificate course is fantastic because you can work as an EMT, get hands on experience and learn the some of the in's and out's of how the medical professionals actually do things. Ultimately the choice is yours what to do, but good luck in any thing you do.

 

[Law2Doc]

Career changes happen throughout our lives because we never know what we want to do with it to begin with. The old saying goes, "You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink!". With that said, your the only person that can make that decision to go to school and then practice for how many years you choose to.

Now I am going to give you some very good advice, first off definitely before you go into medical school take some medical certificate classes. EMT is a very good one to take, you will get hands on experience and learn lots of things that you will need to know. You will need anatomy and physiology classes, trust me they don't give you a lot of time to learn this information. So get some books and diagrams and study hard on these before taking the classes. As an older student myself, it is harder to remember things that involve anatomy. It isn't just the body you learn, it is also how the body functions.

Take the A&P courses, biology course, Chemistry course and then decide if you want to become a doctor. If you can pass the three courses above with A's, then go on to the next step. By then you will know exactly what you want to do..that is if you haven't lost interest after taking those courses.

EMT Certificate course is fantastic because you can work as an EMT, get hands on experience and learn the some of the in's and out's of how the medical professionals actually do things. Ultimately the choice is yours what to do, but good luck in any thing you do.

Disagree about the A&P classes -- there isn't a great reason or need to take this before you get to med school. Take the minimum prereqs and you are fine - that's what lots of us did. But I agree with the rest. Start with something medically related like EMT, clinical volunteering, get some exposure. The fact that you list DVM with MD/DO means you still have some soul searching to do and are not ready to launch into either. Once you get some exposure and have a better idea of what you want to do, start with bio and see how it goes.

 

[J ROD]

I would advise "no" at this point. Early 40's would be ok but you would be 60 before you were done.

Sometimes we just have to give up on dreams and such and develop new dreams. How does the wife and kids feel? IF, they are behind you, then maybe...

If you still want to play, take a couple of the basic science classes, BIO and CHEM and shadow some docs. That will help give you an idea.

One good thing about being so old when you are done is the fact you may die before you have to pay the student loans back!!!😀

There is always a silver lining...

 

[drlisa0318]

I would advise "no" at this point. Early 40's would be ok but you would be 60 before you were done.

Sometimes we just have to give up on dreams and such and develop new dreams. How does the wife and kids feel? IF, they are behind you, then maybe...

If you still want to play, take a couple of the basic science classes, BIO and CHEM and shadow some docs. That will help give you an idea.

One good thing about being so old when you are done is the fact you may die before you have to pay the student loans back!!!😀

There is always a silver lining...

And the problem with being 60 would be? The only thing he should be concerned with regarding his age is whether or not he wants to continue working into what most people consider retirement years. Me, I'm going to be working basically till I drop anyway, so why not (1) work at something I love and am passionate about, (2) benefits others in a way and scale I could never accomplish otherwise, and (3) pays in all likelihood a minimum of FOUR TIMES what I will ever earn doing what I currently do.

I remember when I was a teenager thinking that 25 was positively ANCIENT. Obviously I was wrong. Well, by the same token, here at 51, I see that 60+ is no longer both feet in the grave. I don't even think of it as being "old." If being "old" means having to give up on my dreams, then I refuse to be "old." I still have a great deal to learn and contribute and accomplish before I give up this mortal coil. It's much too early to throw in the towel. I prefer not to think of the next 20+ years as my "retirement years" or "twilight years." That sounds to me like I'm no longer relevant and am just waiting to die. Rather, I prefer to think of it as an opportunity for great growth and achievement.

 

[J ROD]

And the problem with being 60 would be? The only thing he should be concerned with regarding his age is whether or not he wants to continue working into what most people consider retirement years. Me, I'm going to be working basically till I drop anyway, so why not (1) work at something I love and am passionate about, (2) benefits others in a way and scale I could never accomplish otherwise, and (3) pays in all likelihood a minimum of FOUR TIMES what I will ever earn doing what I currently do.

I remember when I was a teenager thinking that 25 was positively ANCIENT. Obviously I was wrong. Well, by the same token, here at 51, I see that 60+ is no longer both feet in the grave. I don't even think of it as being "old." If being "old" means having to give up on my dreams, then I refuse to be "old." I still have a great deal to learn and contribute and accomplish before I give up this mortal coil. It's much to early to throw in the towel. I prefer not to think of the next 20+ years as my "retirement years" or "twilight years." That sounds to me like I'm no longer relevant and am just waiting to die. Rather, I prefer to think of it as an opportunity for great growth and achievement.

WOW, somebody got hit hard by menopause!!!

 

[drlisa0318]

WOW, somebody got hit hard by menopause!!!

Nope! Not there yet! 😀 I just take umbrage at some young whippersnappers who want to place arbitrary limits on what I should/should not or can/cannot do based on my age. Please don't think I'm picking on you. My husband, who is 52, acts like he's 82 with one foot in the grave. I'm four months younger and am far more positive and FAR happier. He's got a much higher chance of dying young than I do just based on his attitude and unwarranted stress he's placing on himself. Which attitude would you prefer that I have?

 

[J ROD]

Nope! Not there yet! 😀 I just take umbrage at some young whippersnappers who want to place arbitrary limits on what I should/should not or can/cannot do based on my age. Please don't think I'm picking on you. My husband, who is 52, acts like he's 82 with one foot in the grave. I'm four months younger and am far more positive and FAR happier. He's got a much higher chance of dying young than I do just based on his attitude and unwarranted stress he's placing on himself. Which attitude would you prefer that I have?

Glad you have a sense of humor. Your outlook is far better!!

My main point to the OP was at his age going to med school would be a "bad" financial decision since he would be theoretically able to work less over his entire career as a doc and not make it worthwhile. Then, he also has to have the wife's support and possibly the kids.

I just think at some point you have to be reasonable where you are at in your life. I am 28 almost 29 and I would love to go back and be the party guy I was at 21 but I do not because I know I need to be more grown up and responsible. Although I do make a few guest appearances in the local bars from time to time to stay relevant.

Sort of like you were saying in your previous post. We all are old compared to someone...Noone wants to be "not" relevant. But at some point, I think one must redefine what is relevant and what is not in their life.

 

[drlisa0318]

Glad you have a sense of humor. Your outlook is far better!!

My main point to the OP was at his age going to med school would be a "bad" financial decision since he would be theoretically able to work less over his entire career as a doc and not make it worthwhile. Then, he also has to have the wife's support and possibly the kids.

I just think at some point you have to be reasonable where you are at in your life. I am 28 almost 29 and I would love to go back and be the party guy I was at 21 but I do not because I know I need to be more grown up and responsible. Although I do make a few guest appearances in the local bars from time to time to stay relevant.

Sort of like you were saying in your previous post. We all are old compared to someone...Noone wants to be "not" relevant. But at some point, I think one must redefine what is relevant and what is not in their life.

Well, since the OP didn't include on his list of concerns anything related to financial matters, the conclusions that could be reached include: he's got the financial matters in hand, no worries; he's like me where a physician salary would be a major step up - certainly more than enough to cover the cost of med school loan repayments if he chooses to stay at his current lifestyle (and who's to say that he makes very much as a part-time cop/part-time attorney?); he's a complete doofus who has no clue about financial matters. Obviously, there could be other conclusions drawn, but regarding the "doofus" conclusion, I tend to think that if he's intelligent enough to make it through law school and pass the bar (the first time), then he's intelligent enough to have his financial concerns squared away. Just so you know I'm not being naive - I've been in accounting for 25+ years, ~15 of that in public accounting. I've seen more than my share of financial illiterates, but most people who've been in business for very many years (as I assume the OP has) pick up quite a bit regarding financial matters, many times through bad choices they've already made.

As far as support from his wife and kids, yes he needs that very much. But that would be true of anyone with a spouse and dependent kids. Even if he's a "late-bloomer" like me (I was 33 when my son was born), he's better off in that regard than someone in his 20's/30's with a young family. Most people I know my age have children who are in college or grown and on their own. My son is 18 and getting ready to graduate high school and head off to the Marines. I can't imagine juggling medical school and raising young children. I have a very healthy respect for those who are doing just that. And if in fact his children ARE young, if raising a young family while attending medical school/doing residency is doable for someone in their 20's/30's, why shouldn't it be so for someone in their 40's/50's.

 

[vtucci]

Disagree about the A&P classes -- there isn't a great reason or need to take this before you get to med school. Take the minimum prereqs and you are fine - that's what lots of us did. But I agree with the rest. Start with something medically related like EMT, clinical volunteering, get some exposure. The fact that you list DVM with MD/DO means you still have some soul searching to do and are not ready to launch into either. Once you get some exposure and have a better idea of what you want to do, start with bio and see how it goes.

I must disagree with law2doc on this one. I recommend to all non-trads to take anatomy and physiology prior to med school. It is a huge advantage to have and many of your classmates will have had the course. It means the difference between going crazy in first year and not at some schools.

I was also an attorney and practiced law for 3 years before doing my post-bac and working part-time (read 40 hours a week- gotta love part-time for law firms). I agree with the OP never leave a dream unfulfilled. IF you want it badly enough you can do it. The clinical years may be harder on your body and our younger colleagues though-- just keep that in mind. It is harder for me and I am only 31 as opposed to 23.

 

[zenman]

You mentioned that you'd like to go the DVM route so you must like animals. As you are probably aware some people like their pets more than their own kids. Go complete a Reiki course in a few weekends and charge $90 or more an hour to work on their pets. Get famous for working on race horses and you'll have it made!😀

 

[Law2Doc]

I must disagree with law2doc on this one. I recommend to all non-trads to take anatomy and physiology prior to med school. It is a huge advantage to have and many of your classmates will have had the course. It means the difference between going crazy in first year and not at some schools.

I was also an attorney and practiced law for 3 years before doing my post-bac and working part-time (read 40 hours a week- gotta love part-time for law firms). I agree with the OP never leave a dream unfulfilled. IF you want it badly enough you can do it. The clinical years may be harder on your body and our younger colleagues though-- just keep that in mind. It is harder for me and I am only 31 as opposed to 23.

You will "go crazy in first year" regardless -- if not in anatomy, then in something else. I'd say maybe a third of my class had had anatomy before at best, and they didn't seem to be particularly ahead of the curve -- apparently many college courses in anatomy are so basic that they provide too superficial an overview to be of much value. The folks I know who had only the prereqs did fine.

As for "never leaving a dream unfulfilled", I would agree if it is really a lifelong dream. However, if it's still MD vs DVM, then this simply isn't enough of a thought out dream for me to back the OP -- it's too half baked. If you are still mulling over multiple career paths you simply aren't ready to take the plunge to medicine.

 

[Avant]

As a recovering lawyer about to graduate from med school at 41, I can only say that the significance of any age is too idiosyncratic for generalizations. In the last year I have begun to feel the desire for a small-ish job with less responsibility, something I have never wanted. Now I want more time with my very young kids and husband. I don't know how much of this is due to having had kids fairly recently, being near the end (or pause) of a long road, or the effects of age. Regardless of the source, it is not a great attitude to have while facing the prospect of a residency.

If you decide med or vet school is a possibility, you can proceed in a step-wise manner to lessen your risk and give you wiggle room to change or re-change your mind. I took my math classes first, as I thought they would be my weakness. Second was physics. I didn't quit my job for something more flexible and for more time to volunteer until I had completed more than half of my prereqs (FWIW, I would strongly recommend A & P: it is a different language that you need to be fluent in very quickly during your first year). I also had no debt and some financial cushion. It doesn't have to be a yes/no decision until you have enough information to estimate whether your application will be competitive enough.

Good luck with whatever you decide. I hope you find some exciting answers during your quest.

 

[supercut]

I don't see age as an issue per se...if you want to do it bad enough and enjoy it enough, you'll be able to survive.

I started med school at age 38 and surgery residency at age 42. The problem for me came about after being in residency for several years and realizing that I was never going to get control of my life back. I'm currently questioning whether I want to stay in medicine at all due to that issue. But I'm enslaved by my student loan debt and need doctor pay to pay it off.

Very few people are as fortunate as NJBMD...able to attend med school on full scholarship and thus incur no debt.

So things to ask yourself...How would you feel about having to pay student loan debt in your 60's? How would you feel about being a resident...working 80 hours a week, hours that you dont' get to decide, working holidays that you dont' get to pick, and only getting 2-3 weeks vacation at times not of your choosing? How would you feel about not being able to eat, sleep or even pee without interruption? Or not getting to eat or pee when you want to? Cuz after a while even the coolest operation becomes routine and these other things start to matter more.

Theres a lot to think about. Nothing wrong with starting to take a couple of the prerequiste courses, I'd just do them somewhere that you can pay cash. You have a while before you'd be ready to apply to med school.

 

[neurologist]

. . . The problem for me came about after being in residency for several years and realizing that I was never going to get control of my life back. I'm currently questioning whether I want to stay in medicine at all due to that issue. But I'm enslaved by my student loan debt and need doctor pay to pay it off. . . .

So things to ask yourself...How would you feel about having to pay student loan debt in your 60's? How would you feel about being a resident...working 80 hours a week, hours that you dont' get to decide, working holidays that you dont' get to pick, and only getting 2-3 weeks vacation at times not of your choosing? How would you feel about not being able to eat, sleep or even pee without interruption? Or not getting to eat or pee when you want to? Cuz after a while even the coolest operation becomes routine and these other things start to matter more.

These are some excellent points that older nontrads need to consider, especially if a) they have school age kids and b) if they are coming from careers that allowed a lot more free time (i.e, teachers who are used to getting every holiday and summers off).

It's OK to say "my ambition/desire/drive to be a Dr will carry me through," but sooner or later the irresistable force meets the immovable object. At some point, you realize that there are a lot of sacrifices and compromises that both you and family will have to make. I, personally, would not want to be in the situation you outline in my 50s or older. Bottom line is that money is money, it comes and goes, but time only flows one way and it's irreplaceable. Choose wisely how you use it.

 

[vtucci]

You will "go crazy in first year" regardless -- if not in anatomy, then in something else. I'd say maybe a third of my class had had anatomy before at best, and they didn't seem to be particularly ahead of the curve -- apparently many college courses in anatomy are so basic that they provide too superficial an overview to be of much value. The folks I know who had only the prereqs did fine.

As for "never leaving a dream unfulfilled", I would agree if it is really a lifelong dream. However, if it's still MD vs DVM, then this simply isn't enough of a thought out dream for me to back the OP -- it's too half baked. If you are still mulling over multiple career paths you simply aren't ready to take the plunge to medicine.

My class had more than 50% with anatomy and we take it from Nov-April. The students who had anatomy definitely had an advantage over those of us who did not. Even a basic anatomy course still helps you with the langauge-- learning anatomy is like learning a foreign langauge. Repetition is key.

 

[nontradmd]

Yes you are probably crazy -- I was too. It might be helpful to hear from people who weren't as successful at balancing it all. I was a mom with kids in school and in my late 40's when I went and I always felt torn. I didn't enjoy medical school because of this. I wanted to be with my kids so I really, really hated it. Despite signing on to a program with tuition assistance in exchange for medical service, my husband and I ended up with a large amount of debt. I am repaying my service obligation to a community where I had to take out loan to establish a solo practice (in a very rural area). I'm late 50's now, in debt, and do not really have a substantial income. On the positive side (yes there is one) I am really good at what I do, I have a lot of job satisfaction, a lot of patient loyalty, and feel appreciated at the end of the day. I do have painful memories of my experience. I was clinically depressed and because of that struggled academically -- which I shouldn't have had to do. I came away with a feeling of not being good enough which haunts me to this day. But by being a solo doc and my own boss I am able to spend time with the patients, and as a result they feel they don't have that hurried up and rushed out feeling. I did encounter prejudice against older students and was in fact placed on the alternate list when two youngsters with the same MCAT and GPA from my undergraduate school made it in without strings attached. I think you might expect this type of prejudice when you apply. There were some legislative hearings along this time about this type of academic discrimination, and I received an acceptance, but it was very late compared to others. As a result I did not have the time to prepare for med school and had to move to a dorm. I should have taken a deferment. So I found myself lonely for my children (youngest age 6) and miserable. I took a leave after almost flunking out, moved my family, and balanced everything until residency. Then the conflict surfaced again and I struggled with the demands. Ultimately I would rather do what I am doing now than any other job, and I look forward to work every day, but I am not sure I made the best choice. I hope your experience will be different, but expect a lot of hard work in undergraduate school and the possibility of not making it in the first time out due to "unwritten age discrimination". It was just terribly painful for me and this is really the first time I have spoken about my experience. My kids turned out fine -- my oldest just finished taking his Bar exam today --others have graduated college -- and my youngest is a junior in high school. I am living apart from my spouse because of my experiences in med school. There were students who could not pass first year despite several tries and had to leave, students who could not pass Step I or II after the allowed number of tries and had to leave. Only a few came back and made it back through. I would have considered myself to be a well-balanced personality that worked hard and did a good job at the beginning of my education. I would describe myself in that manner now, but I would not say that I was consistent in medical school which makes me feel ashamed for not doing better.

 

[Round2]

While this is good advise for an 18 year old I don't necessarily think its good advice for a 40+ year old, especially depending upon what you have done in your life. You should be doing things that are meaningful and reflect where you are in your life. Yep, I've served food to flood survivors out of a mobile kitchen with my kids; it was a great experience and its nowhere on my application. I provide free legal services to several nonprofit disaster relief organizations; that's not on my application either. This summer I'll be volunteer staff at a camp for disabled kids that is primarily staffed by traditional pre-med students looking for a few days of meaningful volunteer experience. I'll be there as unpaid licensed "medical" staff. Its not on my application; its just a small part of something larger that I do every week for years. To the 19 year old trad pre-meds its a big deal, from my perspective its not. I teach in the EMT-B courses in my area, which I've done for several years and for which I get paid McDonald's wages; that's on my application; because it represents the present state of something that goes back about 40 years; involvement with community based fire/ems/rescue.

At 40 or 45 you've probably done so many things in you life that you couldn't even begin to fully catalog your life the way a 22 year old trad applicant can; and that's a good thing. You've had a wide range of experiences; its OK to be selective. Your strength should be the totality of your life's experiences, not a few days in the pre-application months in a soup kitchen. That's important for an 18 year old that hasn't had any life experiences. Not everyone has to, or should, serve in a soup kitchen.

Build from where you are. If you're a bookkeeper, maybe you should experience being a night admitting clerk in a hospital ED. If your a cop; maybe its working as a driver for a critical care ambulance, or work hospital security in a large inner city hospital - if you're interested and inquisitive you'll get access to and be able to observe some incredible things. Do an EMT-I program; short, basic ALS, and experience putting needles in people, dealing with basic patient assessment and intervention, etc. Learn fast how comfortable you are with it. Then get some experience; paid or volunteer; street or hospital. In an interview at one school this week we were talking about the first case their students get in their PBL track, and its a scenerio that as an ED tech or EMT-I you'll see daily; sometimes 10 times daily, and know how to deal with as second nature; but few of their students know how to deal with without substantial work.

Rather, put your time to good use; whatever you choose to do, and choosing to spend time with your kids is a good use too. Certainly the experience of raising a family will go a long way toward making you a better primary care physician then a 24 year old whose only family experience has been being supported by Mom and Dad.

If you decide to persue medicine, start volunteering somewhere. It doesn't have to be medically-related. It can be your church, a soup kitchen, tutoring, etc. You could even use it to bring your family closer together by involving your family as well. Mainly, it shows that you are willing to give back to your community. Wherever you decide to volunteer, make it MEAN something. In other words, don't let it be just a tick-mark on your application.

!

 

[drlisa0318]

While this is good advise for an 18 year old I don't necessarily think its good advice for a 40+ year old, especially depending upon what you have done in your life. You should be doing things that are meaningful and reflect where you are in your life. Yep, I've served food to flood survivors out of a mobile kitchen with my kids; it was a great experience and its nowhere on my application. I provide free legal services to several nonprofit disaster relief organizations; that's not on my application either. This summer I'll be volunteer staff at a camp for disabled kids that is primarily staffed by traditional pre-med students looking for a few days of meaningful volunteer experience. I'll be there as unpaid licensed "medical" staff. Its not on my application; its just a small part of something larger that I do every week for years. To the 19 year old trad pre-meds its a big deal, from my perspective its not. I teach in the EMT-B courses in my area, which I've done for several years and for which I get paid McDonald's wages; that's on my application; because it represents the present state of something that goes back about 40 years; involvement with community based fire/ems/rescue.

At 40 or 45 you've probably done so many things in you life that you couldn't even begin to fully catalog your life the way a 22 year old trad applicant can; and that's a good thing. You've had a wide range of experiences; its OK to be selective. Your strength should be the totality of your life's experiences, not a few days in the pre-application months in a soup kitchen. That's important for an 18 year old that hasn't had any life experiences. Not everyone has to, or should, serve in a soup kitchen.

Build from where you are. If you're a bookkeeper, maybe you should experience being a night admitting clerk in a hospital ED. If your a cop; maybe its working as a driver for a critical care ambulance, or work hospital security in a large inner city hospital - if you're interested and inquisitive you'll get access to and be able to observe some incredible things. Do an EMT-I program; short, basic ALS, and experience putting needles in people, dealing with basic patient assessment and intervention, etc. Learn fast how comfortable you are with it. Then get some experience; paid or volunteer; street or hospital. In an interview at one school this week we were talking about the first case their students get in their PBL track, and its a scenerio that as an ED tech or EMT-I you'll see daily; sometimes 10 times daily, and know how to deal with as second nature; but few of their students know how to deal with without substantial work.

Rather, put your time to good use; whatever you choose to do, and choosing to spend time with your kids is a good use too. Certainly the experience of raising a family will go a long way toward making you a better primary care physician then a 24 year old whose only family experience has been being supported by Mom and Dad.

Obviously, you're no stranger to volunteering! While I certainly HOPE that someone in their 30's/40's/50's has made volunteering a part of their lives, considering that the vast majority of people I've known over the years (regardless their age) have NEVER done any volunteering, I'm not going to make that assumption when giving advice to someone thinking about pursuing medicine. So, I still stand behind my post in toto. Much of your post simply expounded on what I'd already said: volunteer SOMEWHERE; make it MEAN something; don't let it be simply a tick-mark on your application. Personally, I think everyone should spend time volunteering regardless whether they're applying to medical school or not. Doing something to help someone in need (without looking to be recompensed for one's time, skill, knowledge, or effort) is an amazing and wonderful thing.

And obviously, considering my age, I'm well aware of the myriad advantages to being an older applicant. 😀