OMFS non-cat year

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Iron15

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I hope everyone is healthy and doing well. I have a question about internships. Do all of them provide about the same amount of dentoalveolar surgery experience? If not, what are the programs that are known for a lot of extraction experience?

With a class rank thats right in the middle I am guessing my chances of getting into a residency are slim even with an internship (I have been told by more than a few people that some don't get in even after doing a non-cat year), so I want to make sure I at least get a good extraction experience out of it.

Thanks in advance.
 
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If you are just looking for "good extraction experience", do a GPR that does a lot of extractions.
I want to get into a residency program, but in case I don't match even after doing the intern year I want to come out of it being good at extractions.
 
Programs vary widely in how much experience/responsibility interns get clinically, but it’s also very dependent on your attitude, competence, and overall work ethic.

You should understand that for most internships, the goal is to make you a more attractive OMFS applicant who better prepared to enter a residency. This doesn’t necessarily equate to a ton of extraction experience at a lot of programs.

Realistically, no one spends a year at an OMFS program without taking out some teeth, unless there are obvious issues with their personality, interactions with faculty/other residents, and overall competence. Just be prepared to spend a lot of hours doing work that doesn’t involve you taking out teeth.
 
Programs vary widely in how much experience/responsibility interns get clinically, but it’s also very dependent on your attitude, competence, and overall work ethic.

You should understand that for most internships, the goal is to make you a more attractive OMFS applicant who better prepared to enter a residency. This doesn’t necessarily equate to a ton of extraction experience at a lot of programs.

Realistically, no one spends a year at an OMFS program without taking out some teeth, unless there are obvious issues with their personality, interactions with faculty/other residents, and overall competence. Just be prepared to spend a lot of hours doing work that doesn’t involve you taking out teeth.
Thanks
 
To answer your question, one that comes to mind is USC. They will provide you with an abundance of extractions during your intern year.
If I'm reading you correctly you want to get into OMFS, but if that doesn't work out, you at least want to be able to be an exodontist,correct?
That is your place.
 
What kind of CBSE score? Class rank isn’t all that matters
 
To answer your question, one that comes to mind is USC. They will provide you with an abundance of extractions during your intern year.
If I'm reading you correctly you want to get into OMFS, but if that doesn't work out, you at least want to be able to be an exodontist,correct?
That is your place.
Yup, exactly. Thank you so much.
 
You should understand that for most internships, the goal is to make you a more attractive OMFS applicant who better prepared to enter a residency. This doesn’t necessarily equate to a ton of extraction experience at a lot of programs.

If this is the case what would the intern be doing?
 
I think where you do your non-cat year really dictates what kind of year you will have for yourself. I am extremely fortunate that my non-cat year has been as productive as possible and it's pretty amazing how much I've learned even with COVID knocking a couple months out. I was treated just like my other co-interns that matched in terms of responsibilities, duties, etc. I ran the same clinics they did too. It was quite the diverse year for me, IV Sedations - ran anesthesia, surgeries of every caliber( all the way from dent-alveolar (including implants) to trauma to orthognathic surgeries), ran clinics, saw follow-ups, post ops, learned to work people up for the OR with proper hospital orders, labs, etc. It was really quite the year. I urge you to find a program that has a solid non-cat spot(s) and talk to those people about their year and what it encompassed.
 
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I think where you do your non-cat year really dictates what kind of year you will have for yourself. I am extremely fortunate that my non-cat year has been as productive as possible and it's pretty amazing how much I've learned even with COVID knocking a couple months out. I was treated just like my other co-interns that matched in terms of responsibilities, duties, etc. I ran the same clinics they did too. It was quite the diverse year for me, IV Sedations - ran anesthesia, surgeries of every caliber( all the way from dent-alveolar (including implants) to trauma to orthognathic surgeries), ran clinics, saw follow-ups, post ops, learned to work people up for the OR with proper hospital orders, labs, etc. It was really quite the year. I urge you to find a program that has a solid non-cat spot(s) and talk to those people about their year and what it encompassed.
Thank you for the reply. Wow this sounds amazing. Do you mind sharing what program that is? Also, how did you transition from dental school into intern year. It just seems like there is so much knowledge/skill needed that we don’t learn in dental school.
 
I think where you do your non-cat year really dictates what kind of year you will have for yourself. I am extremely fortunate that my non-cat year has been as productive as possible and it's pretty amazing how much I've learned even with COVID knocking a couple months out. I was treated just like my other co-interns that matched in terms of responsibilities, duties, etc. I ran the same clinics they did too. It was quite the diverse year for me, IV Sedations - ran anesthesia, surgeries of every caliber( all the way from dent-alveolar (including implants) to trauma to orthognathic surgeries), ran clinics, saw follow-ups, post ops, learned to work people up for the OR with proper hospital orders, labs, etc. It was really quite the year. I urge you to find a program that has a solid non-cat spot(s) and talk to those people about their year and what it encompassed.

Same question as @ iron15 ... how was the transition from dental school to intern year? Do they typically start interns on buddy call? How long did it take you to become comfortable working in the hospital on call? Dental school really doesn’t prepare for that at all
 
If this is the case what would the intern be doing?

Initial consults, pre-op visits, follow up visits, taking care of admitted patients, after hours lab work, seeing consults in the ED, chasing down pre-op clearances for sick patients, writing pre-op orders, answering after-hours phone calls from patients, etc. There are many tasks that need to be dealt with by residents, and often times the tedious and time-consuming ones are passed down the ladder to interns/junior residents. Actually taking out teeth is only a small part of the intern experience.

Again, the intern’s responsibility and experience will vary at every program. Some programs have their interns doing a little more exodontia, some a little less. Unfortunately, it’s really not easy to get a grasp of exactly how much exodontia interns do at a particular program unless you’ve done an externship there or personally know someone there who’s willing to give you an honest answer to that.
 
Thank you for the reply. Wow this sounds amazing. Do you mind sharing what program that is? Also, how did you transition from dental school into intern year. It just seems like there is so much knowledge/skill needed that we don’t learn in dental school.
I am at Pittsburgh - UPMC. You start off on buddy call for the first couple of months so you you get comfortable. Getting comfortable takes time, your upper level residents know this. We cover 5 hospitals so it can get a little confusing at first - this obviously varies amongst different programs. They expect a lot out of you, you figure it out as you go and just work your ass off if you want me to be completely honest. Don't worry about the transition, if you want be there and be good you'll work at it. If not, don't worry, they will literally bust your ass. You literally can't take anything personally in OMFS residency...your upper levels will show you some serious tough love sometimes. The PGY2 I mainly took buddy call with is actually from where I am and we had a lot of mutual friends, we ended up getting really close this past year but the first few months he showed a lot of tough love and rode my ass in some cases...it wasn't out of any hate but he really pushed me to get better, I learned a TON from him. Plus, the interns at Pitt really help the service move and run smoothly, so they have to be very well trained.

Hope this helps! You will be just fine.
 
I am at Pittsburgh - UPMC. You start off on buddy call for the first couple of months so you you get comfortable. Getting comfortable takes time, your upper level residents know this. We cover 5 hospitals so it can get a little confusing at first - this obviously varies amongst different programs. They expect a lot out of you, you figure it out as you go and just work your ass off if you want me to be completely honest. Don't worry about the transition, if you want be there and be good you'll work at it. If not, don't worry, they will literally bust your ass. You literally can't take anything personally in OMFS residency...your upper levels will show you some serious tough love sometimes. The PGY2 I mainly took buddy call with is actually from where I am and we had a lot of mutual friends, we ended up getting really close this past year but the first few months he showed a lot of tough love and rode my ass in some cases...it wasn't out of any hate but he really pushed me to get better, I learned a TON from him. Plus, the interns at Pitt really help the service move and run smoothly, so they have to be very well trained.

Hope this helps! You will be just fine.
Thank you for this.
 
Initial consults, pre-op visits, follow up visits, taking care of admitted patients, after hours lab work, seeing consults in the ED, chasing down pre-op clearances for sick patients, writing pre-op orders, answering after-hours phone calls from patients, etc. There are many tasks that need to be dealt with by residents, and often times the tedious and time-consuming ones are passed down the ladder to interns/junior residents. Actually taking out teeth is only a small part of the intern experience.

Again, the intern’s responsibility and experience will vary at every program. Some programs have their interns doing a little more exodontia, some a little less. Unfortunately, it’s really not easy to get a grasp of exactly how much exodontia interns do at a particular program unless you’ve done an externship there or personally know someone there who’s willing to give you an honest answer to that.

This sounds a lot like what most undergraduate volunteers do before attending medical school. By hiring administrative assistants and more nursing staff OMS training could be much more efficient.
 
This sounds a lot like what most undergraduate volunteers do before attending medical school. By hiring administrative assistants and more nursing staff OMS training could be much more efficient.
Undergrad as in people getting their bachelors? Lol no, at least not in the US they don’t. More like they stand there and try to not be in the way. Deliver papers between offices maybe.
 
As a non-categorical resident, did you do a 5 month anesthesia rotation before running sedations?
Nope, you don't do any off-service rotations as a non-cat. The upper levels did an entire course during the summer on anesthesia, we practiced starting IV's on one another, took quizzes and reviewed all the medications and drugs almost on a daily basis. Every program is different though.
 
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Undergrad as in people getting their bachelors? Lol no, at least not in the US they don’t. More like they stand there and try to not be in the way. Deliver papers between offices maybe.

Agreed.
 
Nope, you don't do any off-service rotations as a non-cat. The upper levels did an entire course during the summer on anesthesia, we practiced starting IV's on one another, took quizzes and reviewed all the medications and drugs almost on a daily basis. Every program is different though.

Yes, I assumed you didnt do off service rotations but asked since I have heard of a couple that do. I find it weird that some IV practice and medication quizzes makes you even remotely qualified to run sedations.

What was the plan to handle emergencies?
How many people had you bag-masked prior to starting to run sedations?
How many people had you intubated prior to starting to run sedations?


Just my thoughts. People may disagree, but it boggles my mind.
 
Yes, I assumed you didnt do off service rotations but asked since I have heard of a couple that do. I find it weird that some IV practice and medication quizzes makes you even remotely qualified to run sedations.

What was the plan to handle emergencies?
How many people had you bag-masked prior to starting to run sedations?
How many people had you intubated prior to starting to run sedations?


Just my thoughts. People may disagree, but it boggles my mind.

All fair questions for sure. There was extensive courses we reviewed and simulated prior to doing any sedations. You aren't ever in there by yourself, they know you haven't ran sedations before and haven't done your anesthesia training. Before you can run sedations where we are, you have to take and pass ALCS, BLS, ATLS, and PALS. We don't have any experience intubating anyone on a live human for the exception of doing it on manikins in ACLS and ATLS and PALS (I am sure its quite different). During the summer the residents that had done their anesthesia training (upper levels at our program) would run the sedations and we would shadow them, they would train us on all the medications and when to give them and why, when not to give a certain medication, etc. We reviewed all emergency protocols and how to run an emergency (laryngospasm, bronchospasm, seizure, MI, etc)

When we did start having more involvement in running sedations the chief in there during the surgery will give you one attempt to get the IV started, if not - they would do it. After that they guide/help you in terms of what medications to give, when and why. This was all part of the training I mentioned prior to running any sedations that reviewed in our anesthesia course during the summer and the shadowing. There was always an attending and upper level in the room during a sedation but we followed certain protocols in place depending on the emergency.

I don't disagree with anything you have said, in fact, just the training I did this year on running sedations has opened my eyes into how scary/bad things can get so fast. I just want to be clear that us interns were never running sedations solo. After our courses, simulations, ATLS, ACLS, PALS and other trainings I felt more comfortable running sedations but I always had an attending and an upper level in the room. I will add that they were very strict and tough on us when running sedations - if we didn't have the room set up properly, had the anesthesia log filled out correctly, had the correct emergency drugs out or any drugs for that matter out, knew the MOA of each drug we gave and had on our cart then it wouldn't be good aka they'd yell or reprimand us.

With everything I've talked about, I wouldn't consider myself to be fully qualified to run a sedation by myself and completely comfortable until I complete all my anesthesia training. There are too many variables to consider and things that can go wrong that doing just what we had for training isn't enough in my opinion. I am very grateful for the training thus far and I think it was really solid training to roll me into my anesthesia rotation next year. Let me know your thoughts.
 
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