OMFS or Endo?

[CuriousDentist2020]

I'm a current D4 and planning on going into GPR/private practice for next year. However, I am torn between my decision regarding the choice of specialty afterwards. I was originally fascinated by OMFS but I felt that the field is not really welcoming to women, and I switched gears to pursue endo possibly (which I also liked), but now I feel that my heart is still with surgery as I love the medical aspect of what we do, and I tend to be more aggressive than detail oriented.
I am afraid of not being able to handle the level of stress however... Can some OMFS people share their experience? Can you have a life? Do you sleep at least a few hours a day? Do you have families? Relationships? To me it sounded like for 6 years OMFS is all you are breathing and living and that leaves no room for a significant other or family.
I would like to know how your daily schedule is throughout those 6 years, and I am trying to make up my mind as it has been giving me very high stress not knowing what I want to do. Any insight is highly appreciated 🙂

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[PhansterZ]

If you would rather do something than surgery, then do that. I wouldn't go into this field if you count the hours you work.

 

[CuriousDentist2020]

If you would rather do something than surgery, then do that. I wouldn't go into this field if you count the hours you work.

I understand that it can be more than 100+ hours of work per week, but I want to know more details about it and if the entire 6 years is gonna be like that. I personally do not mind it, but I want to prepare my significant other as well mentally if I am trying to pursue a demanding field. My rank is pretty competitive and I think if I put my mind to it I can do well on CBSE, but I would like to see what specifics would residents share about their daily lives. Do you think an externship sheds light on how residency life is? Thanks in advance for taking the time 🙂

PS: I also think I would be fine with any residency, but no specialty would give me the stimulation and joy of surgery. Of course, I am also naive when it comes to firsthand experience.

 

[yappy]

My only advice is to look at the end-state of each career path and make sure you're happy with that.

Most surgeons I know do mostly third molars and abandon much of what they did or learned in residency. Endodontist do root canals and some tooth root "surgeries". Unless you have unique career goals, chances are your career will look like that.

No specialty is appriciably more detailed or aggressive than another. Just go for what you like.

 

[CuriousDentist2020]

My only advice is to look at the end-state of each career path and make sure you're happy with that.

Most surgeons I know do mostly third molars and abandon much of what they did or learned in residency. Endodontist do root canals and some tooth root "surgeries". Unless you have unique career goals, chances are your career will look like that.

No specialty is appriciably more detailed or aggressive than another. Just go for what you like.

Thank you for your explanations! 🙂

 

[UncleJoesVeneers]

I am trying to make up my mind as it has been giving me very high stress not knowing what I want to do

You should do your PGY-1 and if you still can't decide then you should be a general dentist and take your time with it. Oral surgery and endo couldn't be more disparate specialties. After being a GP you might realize you don't want to specialize, or you may even go a completely different direction like perio. Slow down and take your time. I did a GPR and four years of practice before starting endo next summer. Hated endo in dental school. Things change.

 

[maruprime]

I recommend everyone who considers OMS to read the historical overview of OMS which is free to download from the AAOMS website. It gives you a 1% glimpse of what oral surgery actually is, and the struggle that many previous surgeons have gone through to mold OMS into a respected specialty. A 1-2 week externship gives another 10% glimpse of what OMS actually is. Externs don't hold pagers, they don't take call 3 days a week, they don't prepare lectures after clinic, they don't write the inpatient progress notes after pre-rounding at 5:30 AM; but an externship is the best way to figure out if you really want to join the ranks of oral surgeons. Unless you have been in the hospital, or your family member had a mandible fracture, very few people KNOW that they want to do surgery or what "medical aspect" actually means.

The level of stress in residency is extremely high. Some programs are easy-going. Some are malignant. Many programs are in the middle. But the program you match to is the only program you will know. You are expected to devote all your time to surgery. Preround at 5 AM, stay in the hospital/clinic until 5 PM, go home and read for tomorrow's surgeries, prepare lectures, read 100 pages for journal club, etc. Go to sleep at a reasonable time to wake up at 5 AM again tomorrow morning. You also take call 2-3 days a week, where you may have to stay in the hospital, termed "in house call." In between all this time you should have read Peterson's, Fonseca's, Deepak Kademani's Atlas of Oral Surgery, because if you didn't, then you will be humiliated and shamed when you answered every pimp question incorrectly. One can only say "I'm sorry sir, I'll have to look it up" so many times before the attending realizes you didn't read last night.

In terms of being a woman in residency, do not let that dissuade you. There are strong female general surgeons. There are strong female oral surgeons. The lifestyle in general is difficult on all people, male and female. I have seen strong men shed tears when belittled by coresidents and attendings, and I have seen strong women shrug off attempts at shaming.

In short, do an externship if you want to see what OMS is like. 6 years of your life will be completely devoted to OMS with little time for anything else, you will be reading BMP/CBC every morning, knowing normal urine output for adults/kids, knowing serotonin syndrome, memorizing 24, 36, 42 mm for the arteries of the orbit, anterior inferior medial for pterygomaxillary junction osteotome positioning. But after you graduate you likely will work 6 hours a day pulling teeth, 3-4 days a week for the next 30 years. Do OMS if you want to, don't let anyone discourage you by saying a female is more difficult. It may be, it may not be. OMS is hard for all genders; regardless, if you really want to be a surgeon, you can be one too.

If you match and work in a hospital you will know the pleasure we have in writing this signature.

Maruprime, DMD
Signing off.

 

[TeleportMassive]

I recommend everyone who considers OMS to read the historical overview of OMS which is free to download from the AAOMS website. It gives you a 1% glimpse of what oral surgery actually is, and the struggle that many previous surgeons have gone through to mold OMS into a respected specialty. A 1-2 week externship gives another 10% glimpse of what OMS actually is. Externs don't hold pagers, they don't take call 3 days a week, they don't prepare lectures after clinic, they don't write the inpatient progress notes after pre-rounding at 5:30 AM; but an externship is the best way to figure out if you really want to join the ranks of oral surgeons. Unless you have been in the hospital, or your family member had a mandible fracture, very few people KNOW that they want to do surgery or what "medical aspect" actually means.

The level of stress in residency is extremely high. Some programs are easy-going. Some are malignant. Many programs are in the middle. But the program you match to is the only program you will know. You are expected to devote all your time to surgery. Preround at 5 AM, stay in the hospital/clinic until 5 PM, go home and read for tomorrow's surgeries, prepare lectures, read 100 pages for journal club, etc. Go to sleep at a reasonable time to wake up at 5 AM again tomorrow morning. You also take call 2-3 days a week, where you may have to stay in the hospital, termed "in house call." In between all this time you should have read Peterson's, Fonseca's, Deepak Kademani's Atlas of Oral Surgery, because if you didn't, then you will be humiliated and shamed when you answered every pimp question incorrectly. One can only say "I'm sorry sir, I'll have to look it up" so many times before the attending realizes you didn't read last night.

In terms of being a woman in residency, do not let that dissuade you. There are strong female general surgeons. There are strong female oral surgeons. The lifestyle in general is difficult on all people, male and female. I have seen strong men shed tears when belittled by coresidents and attendings, and I have seen strong women shrug off attempts at shaming.

In short, do an externship if you want to see what OMS is like. 6 years of your life will be completely devoted to OMS with little time for anything else, you will be reading BMP/CBC every morning, knowing normal urine output for adults/kids, knowing serotonin syndrome, memorizing 24, 36, 42 mm for the arteries of the orbit, anterior inferior medial for pterygomaxillary junction osteotome positioning. But after you graduate you likely will work 6 hours a day pulling teeth, 3-4 days a week for the next 30 years. Do OMS if you want to, don't let anyone discourage you by saying a female is more difficult. It may be, it may not be. OMS is hard for all genders; regardless, if you really want to be a surgeon, you can be one too.

If you match and work in a hospital you will know the pleasure we have in writing this signature.

Maruprime, DMD
Signing off.

 

[TeleportMassive]

Man I wish prerounding was at 5-530 when I was an intern. Try more like 3-4 am preround and leaving (to the in hospital call room to sleep) at 10pm. This was BC (before coronavirus) though...

 

[CuriousDentist2020]

Man I wish prerounding was at 5-530 when I was an intern. Try more like 3-4 am preround and leaving (to the in hospital call room to sleep) at 10pm. This was BC (before coronavirus) though...

Is intern year just like this or is the entire training as such? this means you did not get more than average of 2-3 hours of sleep per night for an entire year at least?

 

[yappy]

It's too bad there is not enough surgical volume and/ or payment to support full scope surgeons. Based on what people have said here, and my own experiences, oms residency is kind of a waste. If the career looked more like the residency I would have pursued it. However, every oms I know has a limited dental alveolar practice.
OP, perhaps you should also look into perio.

 

[NativeOMFS]

You should know you can do a 4 year OMFS residency. 6 years is not required, and the surgical scope is the same. But Maruprime gave you a complete and accurate description.

Good Luck

 

[nade0016]

CuriousDentist2020:

Do not let what others "know" prevent you from a career you find interesting. Do what you find interesting whether that is Endo or OS. My partner in our academic residency based program is female. She is a model surgeon, mother and her husband is, gasp, an Endodontist. Residency is tough, but not 100% of the time tough. Rounding at 3-4 am is a thing of the past, rounding at 6:30 or 7 is more like it. I trained at a 6 year program and I loved every minute of it. It didn't matter if it was 5:00 am or 6:00 pm. I just enjoyed almost every single moment of residency and I would do it again tomorrow.

Do 90+% OS's go into teeth and titanium? Sure, just like most ENT's do tubes and tonsils but you get to choose. Those OS's chose that practice style, its not like there are no academic/hospital jobs out there. There are a bunch but the pay is lower so residents often feel it is necessary to make as much money as possible since residency is long and you are getting a late start. Do what you feel you will be happy doing in 10 years. I was 30 when I started residency and my Dad gave me great advice. He told me it didn't matter how old you are as long as you get up excited to work each day. And to this day I do. It's a new adventure everyday.

As for being female in OS. Why not. I have 25% females residents in my program. They are great residents, in fact, they are better than most of the male residents. I have 4 male chief residents, 3 of 4 have kids and one has 3 kids. The days of not being able to have a family or being shunned or told you can't get pregnant are for those stuck in the past. I can think of nothing more predictable than a pregnancy. Female resident will essentially give an 7-8 month notice on needed time off. Not an issue and 3 of my chief residents ( all male ) have taken paternity leave during residency. Thats how you keep a good residency program, is by making sure that the soul of the program is happy. By soul I mean the residents as they are the soul of any training program. Happy residents = happy staff, happy faculty, happy, well treated patients.

I am happy to answer any questions you may have. Please feel free to contact me if you want.